Where did Trump the Outsourcing Slayer go? by kpo

You're probably right. I'm starting to think this guy is just business as usual.

I really wish you guys would acknowledge that Obama was just as much of a liar.

It's a chicken and egg question. Do you become a politician because you are a great liar, or do you go in thinking you can make a difference and the job turns you into one?

I suspect it's a little of column A and a little of column B, depending on the circumstances. Either way it always seems to have the same end result.

I guess maybe I should just keep bending over. ;)

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Thursday, August 10, 2017 10:51 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
You're probably right. I'm starting to think this guy is just business as usual.

I really wish you guys would acknowledge that Obama was just as much of a liar.

Trump has an agenda he refuses to acknowledge. It is the refusal that makes all the difference between him and a Democrat: Trump wants you to think a tax cut for big business will stop outsourcing and bring back manufacturing from China.

Pro tip: It won’t.

The business community is snagging a trick from Trump’s campaign, in hopes of selling big tax cuts for business and the rich to a very skeptical public.

Many wealthy business executives, including Trump, would like to see Congress enact a large tax cut on high-income individuals and on large corporations. One big advantage they have in pursuit of that quest is that Republicans currently control both houses of Congress, and most congressional Republicans are strongly predisposed to favor tax cuts for high-income individuals and corporations. One disadvantage they have is that these priorities are hideously unpopular with the public, which strongly believes that corporate taxes and taxes on the rich should be higher.

The unpopularity of this agenda is why Trump, when running for president, emphasized an entirely different agenda — bringing back good-paying manufacturing jobs by getting tough on corporate outsourcing.

Trump is pretending that the GOP tax concepts floating around Congress are about combating outsourcing. This is not in any way true, but in the era of the Bullshitter in chief in the White House it’s natural that the flim-flam style of argumentation would come to increasingly dominate the entire conservative firmament.

Corporate tax rates have nothing to do with outsourcing. Trump won't say that because saying it undercuts his hidden agenda to give himself and his family a tax cut. Obama never did anything that sneaky.
www.vox.com/2017/8/10/16122636/american-action-tax-reform-ad

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Thursday, August 10, 2017 11:00 AM

Thanks for the pro tip.

If anything had happened that was good for the American worker in the 8 years that Obama was president I'd have a bigger problem with this.

As it is, I don't. Obama was terrible for the American worker.

If you're right, then I'm also right. Business as usual...

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Thursday, August 10, 2017 11:21 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
Thanks for the pro tip.

If anything had happened that was good for the American worker in the 8 years that Obama was president I'd have a bigger problem with this.

As it is, I don't. Obama was terrible for the American worker.

If you're right, then I'm also right. Business as usual...

The deal is that no President has ever had the power since President Roosevelt's New Deal to give the American worker a job.

You might be thinking of the booming job market during WWII or Vietnam War. That was because the Federal Government removed millions of people from the private job market and sent them off to war. That was an enormous advantage for those workers left behind.

When the Federal Government spends a gigantic amount on bombs, planes, building the Interstate highways, or rockets to the Moon, it supercharges the job market -- in the private sector. If Trump creates more jobs, it will be because he started a War. Congress will go along with that, but it will not approve money for hiring people to work for the government. There will never be another FDR's New Deal, so long as there are 40 Republican US Senators.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Deal

----------------
Trump wants his sneaky tax reform, not to bring back factories, but because he will make money if it passes. He says he is worth $10 billion. One percent of that is $100 million. That is probably what he will save every year for the rest of his life if tax reforms passes. I cannot know exactly how much because Trump's tax returns are still a secret. Trump will be making an extra $100 million per year for life explains a great deal about his actions in the White House. Obama never had an such sneaky self-serving Presidential motives like Trump has.

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Thursday, August 10, 2017 11:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Trump wants his sneaky tax reform, not to bring back factories, but because he will make money if it passes. He says he is worth $10 billion. One percent of that is $100 million. That is probably what he will save every year for the rest of his life if tax reforms passes. I cannot know exactly how much because Trump's tax returns are still a secret. Trump will be making an extra $100 million per year for life explains a great deal about his actions in the White House. Obama never had an such sneaky self-serving Presidential motives like Trump has.

First off... War has not been profitable for the Average American worker any time that I've been alive. I don't think it was profitable for the American Worker since WWII.

There were surely people making money off of it. But not us. Don't be foolish and believe that there weren't plenty of Democrats making money off of it too.

As for Obama not having sneaky self-serving ambitions, who's to say? I'm not a mind reader. No matter how bad he did as president though, being president has certainly been beneficial to himself and his brand. Don't be surprised when you see him look towards a leadership position at the UN.

(Go ahead and put that in the predictions thread KPO)

I'm not even going to comment on what Trump's ambitions are because I don't understand the mind of the super rich at all since every fiber of my being is the antithesis to that. One year of 100 million dollars and I could pay off the house and education of every single person I care about, manange the money and make it so they'd never have to work again, and I could basically just keep doing what I'm doing now.... which is pretty much whatever the hell I feel like doing in my semi-retired state. Only I'd never have to think about "God Money" ever again.

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Thursday, August 10, 2017 4:08 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 6stringJoker:

I'm not even going to comment on what Trump's ambitions are because I don't understand the mind of the super rich at all since every fiber of my being is the antithesis to that. One year of 100 million dollars and I could pay off the house and education of every single person I care about, manange the money and make it so they'd never have to work again, and I could basically just keep doing what I'm doing now.... which is pretty much whatever the hell I feel like doing in my semi-retired state. Only I'd never have to think about "God Money" ever again.

Since you have the time, a short article from today: "Is the United States an Oligarchy?"
www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/08/is-the-united-states-an-oligarc
hy/

It pulls two graphs from a longer paper by the famous economist Thomas Piketty, "From Soviets to Oligarchs" [2017]: http://gabriel-zucman.eu/files/NPZ2017.pdf

Piketty is famous enough to have his books "Capital in the Twenty-First Century" [2014] and "Why Save The Bankers?" [2016] pirated https://thepiratebay.org/search/Piketty/0/99/0

So that 6stringJoker is not left with the hopeless idea that there is nothing to be done about the Trumps in the world stomping on everyone else, Piketty wrote:

"When Roosevelt was inaugurated as president in March 1933, the economic situation seemed completely desperate: production had fallen by more than 20 percent since 1929 and the unemployment rate had reached 25 percent, to say nothing of the alarming international situation. After the calamitous Hoover presidency, mired for three years in a “liquidationist” strategy aimed at letting “bad” banks fail one after the other, ensnared in antigovernment dogmatism (budget surpluses until 1931, no expansion of public spending), Americans wanted big change and awaited Roosevelt like the messiah. That desperate situation was what allowed a radically new policy to be put in place.

To punish the financial elites who had enriched themselves while bringing the country to the edge of the abyss, and to help finance a gigantic expansion of the federal government, FDR thus decided to raise tax rates on the biggest incomes and estates to 80–90 percent, a level maintained for almost half a century."

Piketty has noticed that the rich will gobble all the wealth unless the rich are heavily taxed. The rich disagree with this strategy. Not so oddly, rich Trump wishes to abolish the Inheritance Tax. He would then be able to pass his $10 billion to Trump Jr. Then Junior Trump can run for President in 20 years, after the poor have forgotten their experience with Senior Trump. I guarantee they will forget.

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Friday, August 11, 2017 7:34 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

After the stock market crash of 1929, Franklin Roosevelt’s response to the enrichment of the very economic and financial elites who had led the country into the crisis was brutal.

The federal tax rate on the highest incomes was lifted from 25 to 63 percent in 1932, then to 79 percent in 1936, 91 percent in 1941, then lowered to 77 percent in 1964, and finally 30–35 percent over the course of the 1980s and 1990s by the Reagan and George H. W. Bush administrations.

From the 1940s until 1980, the top rate averaged more than 80 percent. In the current ideological context, where the right to collect bonuses and golden parachutes in the tens of millions without paying more than 39.6 percent in taxes has been elevated to the status of a human right, many will judge those policies primitive and confiscatory. But they were in effect in the world’s largest democracy — clearly without preventing the American economy from functioning. They had the particular virtue of drastically reducing corporate executives’ incentive to outsource factories or dip their hands into the till, beyond a certain threshold.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, August 12, 2017 3:49 PM

The question is, where do you cut-off the inheritance tax, and what can be done so that inflation doesn't start hurting the not-rich like it does all the time when this stuff is enacted.

I'm not rich. I'd like my house to be sold and the money given to my niece when I die. I see no reason why that my death should be an opportunity for Uncle Sam to take a big bite out of that when I'm gone.

I'm just about as against the inheritance tax as I am property tax, even for the wealthy.

If taxes are done properly elsewhere, there would be no need for it. Somebody dying does not seem to me to be a valid situation for taxing anybody of any level of wealth.

Everybody dies eventually though, so the Government of course is going to take advantage of that. Maybe you lived healthy all of your life and never smoked or drank soda so you avoided all of those taxes, but the grim reaper is going to come for you one day and tax the shit out of you when you're gone.

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Saturday, August 12, 2017 4:02 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Fortunately for me, my anti-Hillary vote wasn't based on anything Trump did or didn't promise. That makes this a non-issue for me.

The rest of you can keep arguing about Trump, for all the good it'll do - considering Trump's not running the show.

The only thing I care about at this point is how easily and thoroughly you've all been propagandized. You've certainly allowed the deep state to tap directly into your ... do you have brains? I wonder. You don't question whether or not what you're being told has the smallest link to reality. You'd be more careful checking that the chicken you bought was being rung up on the same price as the sign on the counter. But when it comes to potentially world-destroying propaganda, your motto is EVIDENCE ???!!! We don't need no stinkin' evidence !!!!

So I'll keep pointing out that the stuff you so willingly swallow and spew back out on the board like good little brainless minions is pure shit.

Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.

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Saturday, August 12, 2017 5:08 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

If the John Malones and Trumps are not heavily taxed, they will own the USA, leaving you with crumbs and leftovers. But if you don't wanna believe that, it is fine with me and them. We don't want you to stop us from doing our thing.
www.businessinsider.com/john-malone-cable-cowboy-powerful-person-media
-2017-7

Quote:
Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
The question is, where do you cut-off the inheritance tax, and what can be done so that inflation doesn't start hurting the not-rich like it does all the time when this stuff is enacted.

I'm not rich. I'd like my house to be sold and the money given to my niece when I die. I see no reason why that my death should be an opportunity for Uncle Sam to take a big bite out of that when I'm gone.

I'm just about as against the inheritance tax as I am property tax, even for the wealthy.

If taxes are done properly elsewhere, there would be no need for it. Somebody dying does not seem to me to be a valid situation for taxing anybody of any level of wealth.

Everybody dies eventually though, so the Government of course is going to take advantage of that. Maybe you lived healthy all of your life and never smoked or drank soda so you avoided all of those taxes, but the grim reaper is going to come for you one day and tax the shit out of you when you're gone.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, August 12, 2017 5:10 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

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Sunday, August 13, 2017 7:32 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Fortunately for me, my anti-Hillary vote wasn't based on anything Trump did or didn't promise. That makes this a non-issue for me.

The rest of you can keep arguing about Trump, for all the good it'll do - considering Trump's not running the show.

The only thing I care about at this point is how easily and thoroughly you've all been propagandized. You've certainly allowed the deep state to tap directly into your ... do you have brains? I wonder. You don't question whether or not what you're being told has the smallest link to reality. You'd be more careful checking that the chicken you bought was being rung up on the same price as the sign on the counter. But when it comes to potentially world-destroying propaganda, your motto is EVIDENCE ???!!! We don't need no stinkin' evidence !!!!

So I'll keep pointing out that the stuff you so willingly swallow and spew back out on the board like good little brainless minions is pure shit.

You were anti-Hillary because she would destroy the world with her war-mongering and Russia baiting, at least in your mind.

As usual, 1kiki, you are wrong when you blame Hillary for what is wrong with America. Sorry for you but there is something even more wrong with the majority of people. Not every citizen, but a clear majority. Scientific American pointed me to a paper that shows the majority of Americans are ready, willing and able to approve of Trump nuking noncombatants, anywhere, if in any way their country gets in the President's way.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-check/nuclear-expert-consid
ers-risks-of-conflict-with-north-korea/

Scientific American asks a Nuclear Expert: Is a nuclear attack becoming more thinkable to you? Do you think, in your gut, there will be an attack in your lifetime?

Wellerstein: What I find most worrying about our present time is the apparent decrease in the salience and power of the “nuclear taboo” in the United States. The American public seems more willing than it ever has since the end of the Cold War to consider using nuclear weapons to achieve its policy aims; read Scott Sagan and Benjamin Valentino’s recent paper on this point:

What Americans Really Think about Using Nuclear Weapons and Killing Noncombatants
www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/full/10.1162/ISEC_a_00284

"Our experiments reveal a darker truth. As in 1945, a significant portion of the U.S. public today would want to use nuclear weapons against an enemy that attacked the United States even when presented with a diplomatic option to end the war. For this significant portion of the U.S. public, there is no atomic aversion. Atomic attraction prevails."

"The findings demonstrate that, contrary to the nuclear taboo thesis, a clear majority of Americans would approve of using nuclear weapons first against the civilian population of a nonnuclear-armed adversary, killing 2 million Iranian civilians, if they believed that such use would save the lives of 20,000 U.S. soldiers. In addition, contrary to the noncombatant immunity norm thesis, an even larger percentage of Americans would approve of a conventional bombing attack designed to kill 100,000 Iranian civilians in the effort to intimidate Iran into surrendering (see table 2).

The third section of the article analyzes the reasons why so many Americans in our scenarios approved of using nuclear weapons."

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Sunday, August 13, 2017 4:40 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Dear stupid SLOPPY SECONDS.

I don't blame Hillary for anything except being a corrupt, greedy, amoral tool of her owners. I blame the deep state she so eagerly represents.

As for the American public, they're easily-herded sheep - like you.

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Monday, August 14, 2017 7:17 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Dear stupid SLOPPY SECONDS.

I don't blame Hillary for anything except being a corrupt, greedy, amoral tool of her owners. I blame the deep state she so eagerly represents.

As for the American public, they're easily-herded sheep - like you.

He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.

You're wrong. I'm the wolf and the American public are not sheep. A clear majority of them have already convinced themselves that nuking civilians in either N Korea or Iran is the American way. The Deep State didn't manipulate them. See What Americans Really Think about Using Nuclear Weapons and Killing Noncombatants
www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/full/10.1162/ISEC_a_00284

And the reason most Americans are indifferent to Trump saving American factories at any cost is that most Americans are not factory workers and most Americans do not want to pay the cost because they won't get the benefit.
http://fortune.com/2016/12/02/indiana-carrier-jobs-tax-breaks-mexico/

Maybe I should keep hammering the same point even harder? Since bombing civilians costs nothing for most Americans, most of them are for it, ethics be damned. Once Americans understand that keeping factories open will cost a great deal, they will be against it, ethics be damned.

Same thing will happen with Trump's failed promise to save coal-miners' jobs. Once Americans discover what that promise will cost them, Americans won't care what happens to coal-miners. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, fewer than half of the 69,460 people working in the coal mining industry actually mine coal. The rest are administrators, surveyors, accountants, security guards, truck drivers and other occupations that are transferable to other sectors of the economy – to renewable energy industries, for example.
http://energyfuturecoalition.org/blog/saving-coal-miners-jobs-at-what-
cost-by-robert-repetto/

Americans don't appear to be rational, in other words sheep, but that's because it takes them years to figure out the costs. Americans want to appear to be ethical, but they really are not because their decisions are based on cost. Americans will do the right thing until they learn the real cost, then they go with what is cheapest.

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Monday, August 14, 2017 9:18 AM

REAVERFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
You're probably right. I'm starting to think this guy is just business as usual.

I really wish you guys would acknowledge that Obama was just as much of a liar.

Sorry. He demonstrably was not. Stop playing your "both sides do it" game because there's no comparison.

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Monday, August 14, 2017 10:02 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
You're wrong. blah blah blah blah ...

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Monday, August 14, 2017 10:25 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Think tanks, the military. weapons dealers, and Congress have been openly discussing the advantages of so-called limited nuclear use since at least 2000. And as the think tanks go, so goes the American shee ... I mean, public.

2000
https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=932268&star
t=0
Nuclear Weapons: The facts

2001
http://oldsite.nautilus.org/archives/nukestrat/lemonde1101.txt
"Mininuke," the secret bomb

2014
http://www.csl.army.mil/lcdw/strategicwargamingdivision/publications/W
G%202-14%20Post-2014%20Afghanistan%20Wargame%20Report.pdf
Post-2014 Afghanistan Wargame Analysis

2016
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/quite-possibly-the-dumbest-m
ilitary-concept-ever-limited-16394
Quite Possibly the Dumbest Military Concept Ever: A 'Limited' Nuclear War

2017
http://www.rollcall.com/news/policy/pentagon-panel-urges-trump-team-ex
pand-nuclear-options
Pentagon Panel Urges Trump Team to Expand Nuclear Options

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Tuesday, August 15, 2017 12:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
If the John Malones and Trumps are not heavily taxed, they will own the USA, leaving you with crumbs and leftovers. But if you don't wanna believe that, it is fine with me and them. We don't want you to stop us from doing our thing.

We're already there, but of course you didn't notice that with your billions of oil you're sitting on.

I didn't say don't tax the rich. I just said that the inheritance tax is bullshit. There's no reason there can't be many ways to get that money from them when they're still alive.

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Tuesday, August 15, 2017 12:59 AM