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L.A. council panel backs plan for a new city holiday: Indigenous Peoples Day

The fight over what to do with Columbus Day in Los Angeles is heading for a showdown at the City Council — one that has already exposed lingering wounds over race, oppression and national identity.

The council’s Rules, Elections, Intergovernmental Relations and Neighborhoods Committee unanimously endorsed a proposal this week to take Columbus Day off the city calendar and put in its place a new Indigenous Peoples Day.

The proposal, backed by Native American community leaders, would allow the city to acknowledge the contributions of “indigenous, aboriginal and native people” on the second Monday of October, currently a paid holiday for city workers. But it has drawn opposition from Italian American civic groups, who argue that their ancestors have also faced oppression — and turned to Columbus Day as a way to recognize their heritage.

The disagreement between those two camps played out during a lengthy Wednesday night hearing. No one in the room spoke against the creation of Indigenous Peoples Day. Instead, the debate focused mostly on a symbolic question: Who loses out if Columbus Day is replaced with a celebration of something else?

Councilman Mitch O’Farrell, a member of the Wyandotte Nation originally from Oklahoma, said the change in holidays would provide a form of “restorative justice” to Native Americans. Replacing Columbus Day, he said, would provide a public acknowledgment that Christopher Columbus’ arrival in the 15th century set in motion the subjugation, enslavement and genocide of indigenous peoples across the Western Hemisphere.

“It’s a really devastating history,” he said. “It was almost immediate subjugation and slavery.”

Councilman Joe Buscaino, a first-generation Italian American from San Pedro, promised to fight O’Farrell’s proposal when it reaches the council — and said this week’s committee vote made him “embarrassed” to be a council member.

Buscaino has offered a counter-proposal to rename Columbus Day in the city’s administrative code as Immigrant Heritage Day. He argued that O’Farrell’s proposal would needlessly divide Angelenos at a time when inclusiveness is needed.

“I strongly support an Indigenous Peoples Day in the city of Los Angeles, but not at the expense of another culture or group of people,” said the councilman, whose port district has a significant number of Italian American residents.

“To me, I feel like it’s removing Martin Luther King Day out of our books … or removing Cesar Chavez Day,” he said.

Council President Herb Wesson, who heads the rules committee, spent much of this week’s meeting trying to find a solution where neither side would feel left out. He eventually acknowledged such a goal was not possible.

“There will be some people that will be unhappy,” he said.

Los Angeles provides its employees with 12 paid holidays a year, and the most recently added is Cesar Chavez Day, established in 2002. That year, city lawmakers considered replacing Columbus Day, which has been a federal holiday since the Great Depression, with Cesar Chavez Day. The council soon faced a backlash from Italian Americans, who called the proposal racist, and both holidays were allowed to coexist.

If O’Farrell’s proposal is approved by the council later this year, it would go into effect no later than 2019. Columbus Day would remain a national holiday.

Several U.S. cities, including Seattle, Portland, Albuquerque and Denver, have already replaced Columbus Day with Indigenous Peoples Day. Los Angeles has been discussing the idea for nearly two years.

Buscaino suggested that Indigenous Peoples Day could be held in August or September. So far, three council members — David Ryu, Gil Cedillo and Mitch Englander — have signed on to his plan for Immigrant Heritage Day, arguing that Columbus Day is not so much about the Italian explorer as the fight for recognition by Italians and other immigrants.

Ann Potenza, president of Federated Italo-Americans of Southern California, told council members that Italians who came to the U.S. in the 19th and 20th centuries also confronted slurs and injustices. Columbus Day, she said, let them know that “it’s OK to come from another country, and the things that you contributed here are important.”

Potenza said she favors the idea of holding an Indigenous Peoples Day — but not on the day currently reserved for Columbus Day. She said she prefers Buscaino’s alternative proposal.

The council’s rules committee proposed having Oct. 12 declared as an Italian American heritage day in Los Angeles — but not as a city holiday. The panel also asked city officials to look into the possibility of creating a city holiday that would commemorate immigrants, diversity or possibly the concept of America.

Councilman Marqueece Harris-Dawson, who serves on the committee, pointed out that an Immigrant Heritage Day would exclude two groups: African Americans and Native Americans. He and Wesson worried aloud that backers of President Trump would use the replacement of Columbus Day in Los Angeles to publicly sow divisions between different groups.

“It just destroys me, like somebody shooting gasoline in my veins, to give this administration anything else they can use to make people think it’s OK to look at us as if we don’t belong here,” Wesson said.

O’Farrell, for his part, compared his proposal to the recent removal of statues in parts of the South that recognize the Confederacy. Backers of O’Farrell’s proposal said Columbus’ activities in the Caribbean, including his enslavement of Native Americans, should not be sanitized.

“We need this recognition,” said Whittier resident Patricia Lopez, who serves on the Los Angeles City/County Native American Indian Commission. “We need this day to heal.”

Rudy Ortega Jr., tribal president of the Fernandeño Tataviam Band of Mission Indians, said Native Americans have experienced numerous defeats, losing land, their water rights and much more. Passage of O’Farrell’s proposal, he said, would allow the city’s indigenous people to stand proud.

“We want one little victory,” he said.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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L.A. council panel backs plan for a new city holiday: Indigenous Peoples Day

The fight over what to do with Columbus Day in Los Angeles is heading for a showdown at the City Council — one that has already exposed lingering wounds over race, oppression and national identity.

The council’s Rules, Elections, Intergovernmental Relations and Neighborhoods Committee unanimously endorsed a proposal this week to take Columbus Day off the city calendar and put in its place a new Indigenous Peoples Day.

The proposal, backed by Native American community leaders, would allow the city to acknowledge the contributions of “indigenous, aboriginal and native people” on the second Monday of October, currently a paid holiday for city workers. But it has drawn opposition from Italian American civic groups, who argue that their ancestors have also faced oppression — and turned to Columbus Day as a way to recognize their heritage.

The disagreement between those two camps played out during a lengthy Wednesday night hearing. No one in the room spoke against the creation of Indigenous Peoples Day. Instead, the debate focused mostly on a symbolic question: Who loses out if Columbus Day is replaced with a celebration of something else?

Councilman Mitch O’Farrell, a member of the Wyandotte Nation originally from Oklahoma, said the change in holidays would provide a form of “restorative justice” to Native Americans. Replacing Columbus Day, he said, would provide a public acknowledgment that Christopher Columbus’ arrival in the 15th century set in motion the subjugation, enslavement and genocide of indigenous peoples across the Western Hemisphere.

“It’s a really devastating history,” he said. “It was almost immediate subjugation and slavery.”

Councilman Joe Buscaino, a first-generation Italian American from San Pedro, promised to fight O’Farrell’s proposal when it reaches the council — and said this week’s committee vote made him “embarrassed” to be a council member.

Buscaino has offered a counter-proposal to rename Columbus Day in the city’s administrative code as Immigrant Heritage Day. He argued that O’Farrell’s proposal would needlessly divide Angelenos at a time when inclusiveness is needed.

“I strongly support an Indigenous Peoples Day in the city of Los Angeles, but not at the expense of another culture or group of people,” said the councilman, whose port district has a significant number of Italian American residents.

“To me, I feel like it’s removing Martin Luther King Day out of our books … or removing Cesar Chavez Day,” he said.

Council President Herb Wesson, who heads the rules committee, spent much of this week’s meeting trying to find a solution where neither side would feel left out. He eventually acknowledged such a goal was not possible.

“There will be some people that will be unhappy,” he said.

Los Angeles provides its employees with 12 paid holidays a year, and the most recently added is Cesar Chavez Day, established in 2002. That year, city lawmakers considered replacing Columbus Day, which has been a federal holiday since the Great Depression, with Cesar Chavez Day. The council soon faced a backlash from Italian Americans, who called the proposal racist, and both holidays were allowed to coexist.

If O’Farrell’s proposal is approved by the council later this year, it would go into effect no later than 2019. Columbus Day would remain a national holiday.

Several U.S. cities, including Seattle, Portland, Albuquerque and Denver, have already replaced Columbus Day with Indigenous Peoples Day. Los Angeles has been discussing the idea for nearly two years.

Buscaino suggested that Indigenous Peoples Day could be held in August or September. So far, three council members — David Ryu, Gil Cedillo and Mitch Englander — have signed on to his plan for Immigrant Heritage Day, arguing that Columbus Day is not so much about the Italian explorer as the fight for recognition by Italians and other immigrants.

Ann Potenza, president of Federated Italo-Americans of Southern California, told council members that Italians who came to the U.S. in the 19th and 20th centuries also confronted slurs and injustices. Columbus Day, she said, let them know that “it’s OK to come from another country, and the things that you contributed here are important.”

Potenza said she favors the idea of holding an Indigenous Peoples Day — but not on the day currently reserved for Columbus Day. She said she prefers Buscaino’s alternative proposal.

The council’s rules committee proposed having Oct. 12 declared as an Italian American heritage day in Los Angeles — but not as a city holiday. The panel also asked city officials to look into the possibility of creating a city holiday that would commemorate immigrants, diversity or possibly the concept of America.

Councilman Marqueece Harris-Dawson, who serves on the committee, pointed out that an Immigrant Heritage Day would exclude two groups: African Americans and Native Americans. He and Wesson worried aloud that backers of President Trump would use the replacement of Columbus Day in Los Angeles to publicly sow divisions between different groups.

“It just destroys me, like somebody shooting gasoline in my veins, to give this administration anything else they can use to make people think it’s OK to look at us as if we don’t belong here,” Wesson said.

O’Farrell, for his part, compared his proposal to the recent removal of statues in parts of the South that recognize the Confederacy. Backers of O’Farrell’s proposal said Columbus’ activities in the Caribbean, including his enslavement of Native Americans, should not be sanitized.

“We need this recognition,” said Whittier resident Patricia Lopez, who serves on the Los Angeles City/County Native American Indian Commission. “We need this day to heal.”

Rudy Ortega Jr., tribal president of the Fernandeño Tataviam Band of Mission Indians, said Native Americans have experienced numerous defeats, losing land, their water rights and much more. Passage of O’Farrell’s proposal, he said, would allow the city’s indigenous people to stand proud.

“We want one little victory,” he said.

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http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-indigenous-peoples-holiday
-20170615-story.html

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Well, there IS a problem with the whole "Columbus discovered America" concept, when clearly America was "discovered" by the people who were already here.

But we can put George Washington and many of the early Funding (I meant FOUNDING) Fathers in the same basket, because their interest in independence was fueled by land speculation and expansionism, which the British tried to limit for the sake of peace with "the natives" who were helping them fight the French.

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Originally posted by Brenda:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Well, there IS a problem with the whole "Columbus discovered America" concept, when clearly America was "discovered" by the people who were already here.

But we can put George Washington and many of the early Funding (I meant FOUNDING) Fathers in the same basket, because their interest in independence was fueled by land speculation and expansionism, which the British tried to limit for the sake of peace with "the natives" who were helping them fight the French.

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Perhaps "civilization discovered America" would be more palatable. Non-nomadic, less genocidal, with written language and reliable translation.

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I can't agree with that JSF because your phrase disrespects the Aztec, Inca and Maya who were great civilizations when Columbus arrived.

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Perhaps "civilization discovered America" would be more palatable. Non-nomadic, less genocidal, with written language and reliable translation.

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Originally posted by Brenda:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by Brenda:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Well, there IS a problem with the whole "Columbus discovered America" concept, when clearly America was "discovered" by the people who were already here.

But we can put George Washington and many of the early Funding (I meant FOUNDING) Fathers in the same basket, because their interest in independence was fueled by land speculation and expansionism, which the British tried to limit for the sake of peace with "the natives" who were helping them fight the French.

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Perhaps "civilization discovered America" would be more palatable. Non-nomadic, less genocidal, with written language and reliable translation.

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I can't agree with that JSF because your phrase disrespects the Aztec, Inca and Maya who were great civilizations when Columbus arrived.

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maybe I should have included "without human sacrifices"

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Then by your logic Rome is not worthy of the title of "great" as regard to civilization as it practised human sacrifice.

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Originally posted by Brenda:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Well, there IS a problem with the whole "Columbus discovered America" concept, when clearly America was "discovered" by the people who were already here.

But we can put George Washington and many of the early Funding (I meant FOUNDING) Fathers in the same basket, because their interest in independence was fueled by land speculation and expansionism, which the British tried to limit for the sake of peace with "the natives" who were helping them fight the French.

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Perhaps "civilization discovered America" would be more palatable. Non-nomadic, less genocidal, with written language and reliable translation.

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I can't agree with that JSF because your phrase disrespects the Aztec, Inca and Maya who were great civilizations when Columbus arrived.

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Originally posted by Brenda:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Native Americans also died of epidemic diseases, imported from the Old World.

There are some cases where the British deliberately used germ warfare, giving away blankest infected with smallpox, to reduce their ability to defend themselves.

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And the US government allowed the decimation of the buffalo to help drive us onto reservations.

Royalty paid the US government to come over and be allowed to trophy hunt the buffalo from trains. They would take the hides and sometimes the heads and leave the meat to rot in the plains sun.

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Originally posted by Brenda:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So BRENDA, given all of the crimes that were committed by the Old World settlers against the New World natives, what should the appropriate establishment cultural response be?

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Doing away with Columbus day would be a good start in the US. We don't have that in Canada.

How about instituting a National day for all tribes that has been suggested. We could do it in Canada as well.

Or like your Presidents Day, a Chiefs Day for all or pick one. Geronimo, Cochise, Tecumseh. My distant aunt as she was with Lewis and Clark. Sacajawea.

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Originally posted by Brenda:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by Brenda:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by Brenda:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Well, there IS a problem with the whole "Columbus discovered America" concept, when clearly America was "discovered" by the people who were already here.

But we can put George Washington and many of the early Funding (I meant FOUNDING) Fathers in the same basket, because their interest in independence was fueled by land speculation and expansionism, which the British tried to limit for the sake of peace with "the natives" who were helping them fight the French.

JSF: Perhaps "civilization discovered America" would be more palatable. Non-nomadic, less genocidal, with written language and reliable translation.

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I can't agree with that JSF because your phrase disrespects the Aztec, Inca and Maya who were great civilizations when Columbus arrived.

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maybe I should have included "without human sacrifices"

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Then by your logic Rome is not worthy of the title of "great" as regard to civilization as it practised human sacrifice.

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are you referring to Gladiators? Or another Pagan ritual?
Gladiator Sports declined around 400 AD after Rome government converted to Christianity.

Are you arguing that Pagan Rome was great civilization? Or another Pagan society was great civilization?

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Are you saying that Pagan Rome didn't contribute something to Western civilization as we know it today?

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Originally posted by Brenda:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by Brenda:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Native Americans also died of epidemic diseases, imported from the Old World.

There are some cases where the British deliberately used germ warfare, giving away blankest infected with smallpox, to reduce their ability to defend themselves.

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And the US government allowed the decimation of the buffalo to help drive us onto reservations.

Royalty paid the US government to come over and be allowed to trophy hunt the buffalo from trains. They would take the hides and sometimes the heads and leave the meat to rot in the plains sun.

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perhaps I've been unclear. I don't disagree that the Jacksonian Democrats - which you generalize as US Government - treated Native Americans unfairly.

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Last time I looked at US history Jackson had been one of your Presidents and the decimation of the American Indian happened over several different administrations. Custer happened under Grant's watch.

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Originally posted by Brenda:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by Brenda:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Well, there IS a problem with the whole "Columbus discovered America" concept, when clearly America was "discovered" by the people who were already here.

But we can put George Washington and many of the early Funding (I meant FOUNDING) Fathers in the same basket, because their interest in independence was fueled by land speculation and expansionism, which the British tried to limit for the sake of peace with "the natives" who were helping them fight the French.

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Perhaps "civilization discovered America" would be more palatable. Non-nomadic, less genocidal, with written language and reliable translation.

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I can't agree with that JSF because your phrase disrespects the Aztec, Inca and Maya who were great civilizations when Columbus arrived.

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I was under the impression the Incan Civil War decimated the Pacific Andeans, but I forget how much interaction they had with the invaders by that point.

Did you have a particular part of the Mayan assimilation that you considered a great civilization?

My current perspective of civilization is from the American Liberty, Freedom, Life triumvirate because the above referenced Washington and FFs, not the background of Columbus, Spanish, Inquisition.

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As a student of Archaeology, I definition of civilization is a little broader. I start with Ancient Greeks, Romans and Egyptians and China then move to South American and up into North American.

And since I am part American Indian, I will try to the best of my ability to defend all Natives in my part of the world. North and South.

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I am not defining by population size. I am defining by what they contributed to civilization as a whole.

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Originally posted by Brenda:

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Originally posted by 1kiki:

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I am not defining by population size. I am defining by what they contributed to civilization as a whole.

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You must mean to WESTERN civilization. Because the Chinese civilization is the longest-lived continuous one on the planet today. But I don't think you can call them 'savages' just because they didn't contribute much to OUR civilization.

And then, who's to say WE weren't the savages - wiping out many civilizations along with whatever contributions they COULD have made.

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Yes, I did mean WESTERN civilization. No, I wouldn't call the Chinese savages and it was JSF who used the word savage not me, Kiki.

I've often felt that Westerners were savages for what has been done.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
Sorry, I amended my post to not call out YOU specifically, since it's a common characteristic of modern man. I came to the realization that the same lack of understanding that causes a Muslim to believe a dictum from the 6th century even when they are called to prayer by a cellphone alarm; is the exact same lack of understanding that causes people in the US to claim a boy was cursed by the devil for crying tears of blood even when they heard about the story on TV and drove their cars to the local pub to talk about it. Our technologies seem to be magical and don't make a dent in some extremely non-linear thinking.

But I did want to point out that the greatest contributions to human civilization: language, fire, bowls, tools (wood, bone, and stone, through bronze tools), the baby sling, rafts, clothing, herding, housing, farming, food storage (including cheese making, brewing and crude granaries), and so on, were contributed by so-called savages - in fact, some contributions were by creatures we only partially recognize as human.

Some include the ability to invent and believe myths as a way of binding large numbers of people together.

And when it comes to written language, we date it as far back as 3,300 bce - and yet, the Sumerians while advancing 'civilization' a great deal. contributed very little directly to western civilization.

I guess I find the division of 'civilized' v 'uncivilized' by how much they directly contributed to our current society very confusing.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So BRENDA, given all of the crimes that were committed by the Old World settlers against the New World natives, what should the appropriate establishment cultural response be?

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Originally posted by Brenda:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So BRENDA, given all of the crimes that were committed by the Old World settlers against the New World natives, what should the appropriate establishment cultural response be?

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Doing away with Columbus day would be a good start in the US. We don't have that in Canada.

How about instituting a National day for all tribes that has been suggested. We could do it in Canada as well.

Or like your Presidents Day, a Chiefs Day for all or pick one. Geronimo, Cochise, Tecumseh. My distant aunt as she was with Lewis and Clark. Sacajawea.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I guess, when trying to understand the meaning of a word, one could go back to a dictionary and look at its origin: Civilization, from civil from civic, from Latin civicus, from civis citizen — more at city

Civilizations built cities. Of course, we can have a problem defining a "city" but clearly its a collection of people greater than the "monkeysphere" of most people (100 - 120).

That more or less eliminates the discussion of whether or not a "civilization" was in direct lineage to/ contributed to today's western societies.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
And then, who's to say WE weren't the savages - wiping out many civilizations along with whatever contributions they COULD have made.

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Also, your definition of linear thinking is not grounded in neurology. Even the most 'savage' of 'savages' probably has a better grasp of cause and effect, and less magical thinking than we do. If they didn't, they wouldn't be able to survive the environment with all its very demanding cause-and-effect particular requirements. We, otoh, understand that if we flip a light switch, the light comes on. But do we know enough to build a generator, wiring, bulb, and switch? If not, it's magic to us, and not linear at all.

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where there any other Native Americans which created cities?

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Perhaps this is the magical thinking which cannot predict a few days in advance a deluge of 18 inches of rain, but knows for a fact that the oceans will rise a centimeter a hundred years in the future.
And that the most reasonable, unbiased, scientifically valid place to locate official temperature readings is amidst jet exhaust at each city's airport, so that increases in air travel can affect records in an obviously false direction.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Perhaps this is the magical thinking which cannot predict a few days in advance a deluge of 18 inches of rain, but knows for a fact that the oceans will rise a centimeter a hundred years in the future.
And that the most reasonable, unbiased, scientifically valid place to locate official temperature sensors is amidst jet exhaust at each city's airport, so that increases in air travel can affect records in an obviously false direction.

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Well ... jet exhaust isn't a direct contributor to local temperatures

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- then the local conditions set a constant baseline that washes out when seeing year-on-year and decade-on-decade rising temperatures.

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as defined by sensors placed amidst that exact jet exhaust??

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Originally posted by 1kiki:

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as defined by sensors placed amidst that exact jet exhaust??

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Yanno, I'm tired of trying to be reasonable with you. When you get some kind of linked valid data to back up your crazy-talk - which you won't, I guarantee it - we can have a discussion. Till then, I won't be replying to your unsupported and completely idiotic rants.

Meanwhile, chew on this and at least educate yourself the smallest bit. http://www.ofcm.gov/publications/fmh/siting/FCM-s4-1994update.pdf

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
No, and thanks for the troll, troll. BTW, what WERE you doing at the airport - janitor? Did your 'work on' equipment consist of dusting?

And try READING the document. Assuming you can read, of course.

And I need to ask - do you ever - and I mean EVER - try to look anything up on a topic before you post your usual idiocy? Yanno, maybe a google search on weather station siting requirements at airports ... and then at least scan 4 or 5 links - or even one? Or do you just spew bullshit because you like to?

Goodbye, asshole.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
FEDERAL STANDARD FOR SITING METEOROLOGICAL SENSORS AT AIRPORTS

CHAPTER 2

SENSOR EXPOSURE


2.6 TEMPERATURE AND DEW POINT SENSORS.
The temperature and dew point sensors will be mounted so that the aspirator intake is 5 ± 1 feet (1.5 ± 0.3 meters) above ground level or 2 feet (0.6 meters) above the average maximum snow depth, whichever is higher. Five feet (1.5 meters) above ground is the preferred height.

The sensors will be protected from radiation from the sun, sky, earth, and any other surrounding objects but at the same time be adequately ventilated.

The sensors will be installed in such a position as to ensure that measurements are representative of the free air circulating in the locality and not influenced by artificial conditions, such as large buildings, cooling towers, and expanses of concrete and tarmac. (Which means, in case you're too dense to figure it out, away from runways and jet exhaust.)

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Any grass and vegetation within 100 feet (30 meters) of the sensor should be clipped to height of about 10 inches (25 centimeters) or less.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:

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as defined by sensors placed amidst that exact jet exhaust??

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Yanno, I'm tired of trying to be reasonable with you. When you get some kind of linked valid data to back up your crazy-talk - which you won't, I guarantee it - we can have a discussion. Till then, I won't be replying to your unsupported and completely idiotic rants.

Meanwhile, chew on this and at least educate yourself the smallest bit. http://www.ofcm.gov/publications/fmh/siting/FCM-s4-1994update.pdf

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according to my translation of American English in this document to clear plain American English, this standard specifies (interpreted) runways, taxiways, flight decks and paddocks, flightlines - but makes no mention of isolation from Jet Exhaust.
Are you still trying to prove my point for me?

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Originally posted by G:
The Sopranos already had this debate 15 years ago.

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