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Originally posted by 1kiki:
I probably won't have a ton of sympathy.

I know people who died of MRSA pneumonia.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:


YOU seem to think that's not a problem. Well, ok. I hope you or your family never have to face a deadly infection with no antibiotic treatment. But if you do, well, maybe at that point you'll understand that antibiotic resistance is a serious issue. Just don't come whining to me about it.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
What is your malfunction? How can you possibly infer I'm against people trying to stay alive by using antibiotics? Or do you automatically think every criticism under the sun is directed at you, personally?

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
And our system is geared to enable the people who will do anything to make the most money possible.
Neither one is sustainable.

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There are too many people on the planet. And our system is geared to enable the people who will do anything to make the most money possible.
Neither one is sustainable.

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Originally posted by Wishimay:
Seems to me that they are VERY sustainable, 'cause THAT'S ALL WE GET.

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Good luck fixing it by posting HERE.

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The people with the money gots da power and they aren't giving it up. So unless you intend a bloody revolution SHUT THE HELL UP.

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And on that subject, weren't YOU the one thinking your mountains of gold would save you if the economy tanked...

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Aren't YOU just another hypocrite? DO you plan on handing it over to the starving if your ideals come true?? HELL NO.

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Self-preservation runs this planet and always will. Nothing ELSE is sustainable.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
I would give up everything I have in less than a heartbeat if it would guarantee a fair world for everyone.

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Originally posted by Wishimay:
DO you plan on handing it over to the starving if your ideals come true?? HELL NO.

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Originally posted by Wishimay:
It wouldn't.
It's not going to.
No one here is interested in being a pure socialist. Ever.
EVERYONE but YOU knows that if you were to hand out all you own that you would be stabbed in the back by the system, the people, whatever, eventually....because it isn't even REMOTELY REALISTIC. You CANNOT deprogram greed or self-preservation, even with a good brainwashing program.
THIS ISN'T THE WINDMILL YOU ARE LOOKING FOR, DON QUIXOTE.
LEARN, GODDAMN IT.

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Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
Shouldn't a couple of feminists like you two be saving all of that energy for fighting the big bad patriarchy?

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
You seem to be under the impression women are the cause of all bad things.

Are you?

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Originally posted by 6stringJoker:


I've known Signy since I've signed up here, and I don't think I've ever had a single argument with her. I'm sure in all that time we must have disagreed about something, but I can't recall ever having an argument.

OONJ and Brenda just seem like pretty wonderful people all around.

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Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
Their very existence is superfluous today

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neither of you will ever back down from an argument once you've dug your heels in

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Originally posted by 1kiki:

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neither of you will ever back down from an argument once you've dug your heels in

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I'm OK with being proven wrong. But someone has to come up with facts, links, and a better argument to do it. Wishi didn't come up with anything except easily disproved claims, and you didn't come up with anything except personal snark.
You may find it hard to believe that anyone here has genuine expertise - or even that irl they know more than you. But this is one of my areas of knowledge. So instead of sniping about feminism, maybe you could consider learning something about a topic you don't know much about, from someone who knows more than you.

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You're free to have whatever opinion you want, but I reject the notion that I don't deserve what I have today.

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You don't. Not in a system that rewards things like sex, skin color, and height.

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Or that I only have what I own today simply because of some systemic oppression of non-whites or women.

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You do.

You're a raving egomaniac that has soured into Social Darwinism, racism and sexism. I'm just waiting for you to officially become a Nazi and promote the cause of eliminating undesirables. You already agree with it, you just don't want to make the effort - at the moment.

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There is no "overpayment" in EIC. These women aren't breaking any tax laws. It wasn't all Obama either. The Feminists want to bitch about the gender wage gap, but with nearly 50% of Americans making below poverty almost half of American Women get paid more than men for the same job because of the EIC.

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To qualify for and claim the Earned Income Credit you must:

Have earned income; and
Have been a U.S. citizen or resident alien for the entire tax year; and
Have a valid Social Security number (not an ITIN) for yourself, your spouse (if filing jointly), and any qualifying children on your return; and
Not have investment income exceeding $3,400; and
Not be filing a Form 2555 or 2555-EZ; and
File a return with the Single, Married Filing Jointly, Head of Household, or Qualifying Widower filing status, even if you're not required to file a return.

In addition, both your earned income and Adjusted Gross Income (AGI) may not exceed:

$14,880 if you're not claiming a qualifying child ($20,430 if filing jointly);
$39,296 if you're claiming 1 qualifying child ($44,846 if filing jointly);
$44,648 if you're claiming 2 qualifying children ($50,198 if filing jointly);
$47,955 if you're claiming 3+ qualifying children ($53,505 if filing jointly).

One more thing – if you're not claiming a qualifying child:

You (or your jointly filing spouse) must have been born on or after January 1, 1951; and
You (or your jointly filing spouse) must have been born on or before December 31, 1991; and
You (and your jointly filing spouse) cannot be claimed as a qualifying child or dependent on anyone else's return.

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(re EIC) it wasn't Obama's idea although he happily went along with it and touted it as good. The government as a whole for quite some time has been heading this way, but that whole thing is another discussion that involves quite a bit of MGTOW ideas that I agree with but would derail this thread. ... Stefan Moleneux and some others have some videos on the subject, particularly the idea of Government supplying women with many alternative means for sustenance for themselves and their children without the need for a male to be in the picture to provide for them.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
The employment problems in the US don't look to be about women in the workforce.

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Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
I didn't say they were.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:Then maybe you shouldn't have made such a point of it?

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Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
I'm not saying that women should stay in the kitchen and make babies. I'm just stating the harsh reality that I never hear anybody talking about. The amount of illegal Mexicans or H1B visas out there is a drop in the bucket compared to females entering the work force when it came to job competition.

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Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
lol... You would basically be Second if you agreed on politics.

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YOUR solution would lead too 77% unemployment (the 27% who are already not participating, though they can, plus the 50% you want to leave work).
Is that what you're going for?

AND it would double the workload of those who are left employed.
Is that what you're going for?

That's how your simple math works out.
Is that what you're going for?

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Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
lol

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feminism had a lot more to do with it. Anything you can do, I can do better.... right? ... women are idiots for fighting for the right to work and be miserable like the men were

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Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
If we had pure Capitalism where everything was equal as far as opportunity and it was an actual merit based system where those who worked the hardest and/or the smartest actually were able to make something of themselves, and those who didn't do anything were not provided for by the government then Darwinism would take root and only the smartest and toughest would make it and population control would happen under natural selection. A very tough pill for a lot of people to swallow, this option, but a few generations from now would see a Human Race of the highest caliber and most driven united people ever known.

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Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
What we are living under now is generations of government subsidized Dysgenics, where often the stupidest, weakest and least able to fend for themselves are the ones that are rewarded for having children. What did you think would happen? ... in many ways the most poor anywhere are the ones least equipped to survive on their own. There are always exceptions to the rule, but let's not start going all SJW and pretending that this isn't generally the truth ... Stupid and weak people are poor because they are weak and stupid. This would happen regardless of the existence of a meritocracy or not.
... In the animal kingdom where there is no welfare these people would not procreate because they would have already been eaten. .....

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It doesn't make sense to me that the 1% of the 1% aren't coming up with a plan of population control as we speak.

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Since most of us don't voluntarily curb our reproduction

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White people in Westernized society have low birth rates. There is not low birth rates in any other demographic in Westernized societies. ...

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Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
You called me a Nazi.

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You're a raving egomaniac that has soured into Social Darwinism, racism and sexism.

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You called me a raving egomaniac.

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They were insults, they were unwarranted.

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my EIC will only be around $200/yr, but many of the women I worked with at my last job were getting between $400-$600/month in food stamps and $6,000-$12,000/yr in EIC (you forgot they're supporting CHILDREN, DOOD) ... The Feminists want to bitch about the gender wage gap, but with nearly 50% of Americans making below poverty almost half of American Women get paid more than men for the same job because of the EIC (what about those CHILDREN, DOOD?) ... No professionals should have unions (because instead of raising poor people up we need to devalue others) ... the idea of Government supplying women with many alternative means for sustenance for themselves and their children without the need for a male to be in the picture to provide for them (yes. god forbid women have independent lives) ... Jesus Christ...Whatever second ... lol... You would basically be Second if you agreed on politics ...You also say that nothing I do in my life matters because I have white male privlidge that takes the credit for anything good in my life. (I was responding to what you posted - that you DESERVE what you have today.) I reject the notion that I don't deserve what I have today. (DOOD - you may deserve SOME things - but not EVERYTHING. Because some advantages you got for free - by being a white male.) I thought maybe you would have taken a good look in the mirror when you had it pointed out to you. ... lol (No answer to simple questions about the simple math in your own post. I got that.) ... I don't believe what they teach in school or what they say on the news (which is probably your excuse for never posting facts or doing any research - that would hamper the bullshit) ... Anything you can do, I can do better.... right? ... Let the adults talk. Don't you have another thread or three that you're helping destroy? ... generations of government subsidized Dysgenics, where often the stupidest, weakest and least able to fend for themselves are the ones that are rewarded for having children ... those who didn't do anything were not provided for by the government then Darwinism would take root and only the smartest and toughest would make it and population control would happen under natural selection - a few generations from now would see a Human Race of the highest caliber and most driven united people ever known ... I will not respond again to you here and allow you to derail and destroy another topic ... Logic and reason are hard things to deal with having when most people you talk to don't measure up...when it comes to issues such as this, the liberals are on the short end of that stick because the dumbest people at the bottom of the food chain tend to congregate there ... White people in Westernized society have low birth rates. There is not low birth rates in any other demographic in Westernized societies. ... the most poor anywhere are the ones least equipped to survive on their own. There are always exceptions to the rule, but let's not start going all SJW and pretending that this isn't generally the truth. ... Stupid and weak people are poor because they are weak and stupid. ... That's just called survival of the fittest. In the animal kingdom where there is no welfare these people would not procreate because they would have already been eaten. ... I reject the notion that...I only have what I own today simply because of some systemic oppression of non-whites or women (nobody EXCEPT YOU said 'only' Jack. There you go ... lying again.) ... It's foolish and self-destructive behavior to just say that there is absolutely no benefit to hard work ... (and nobody EXCEPT YOU said that either, Jack. There you go ... lying again.) ...

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my EIC will only be around $200/yr, but many of the women I worked with at my last job were getting between $400-$600/month in food stamps and $6,000-$12,000/yr in EIC - SIX

you forgot they're supporting CHILDREN, DOOD - KIKI

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... The Feminists want to bitch about the gender wage gap, but with nearly 50% of Americans making below poverty almost half of American Women get paid more than men for the same job because of the EIC ... SIX

what about those CHILDREN, DOOD? - KIKI

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... No professionals should have unions - SIX
because instead of raising poor people up we need to devalue others= KIKI

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the idea of Government supplying women with many alternative means for sustenance for themselves and their children without the need for a male to be in the picture to provide for them - SIX
yes. god forbid women have independent lives - KIKI

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Jesus Christ...Whatever second ... lol... You would basically be Second if you agreed on politics ...You also say that nothing I do in my life matters because I have white male privlidge [sic] that takes the credit for anything good in my life. - SIX

I was responding to what you posted - that you DESERVE what you have today.- KIKI

I reject the notion that I don't deserve what I have today. - SIX

DOOD - you may deserve SOME things - but not EVERYTHING. Because some advantages you got for free - by being a white male. - KIKI

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I don't believe what they teach in school or what they say on the news - SIX

which is probably your excuse for never posting facts or doing any research - that would hamper the bullshit - KIKI

... Anything you can do, I can do better.... right? ... Let the adults talk. Don't you have another thread or three that you're helping destroy? ... generations of government subsidized Dysgenics, where often the stupidest, weakest and least able to fend for themselves are the ones that are rewarded for having children

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... those who didn't do anything were not provided for by the government then Darwinism would take root and only the smartest and toughest would make it and population control would happen under natural selection - a few generations from now would see a Human Race of the highest caliber and most driven united people ever known ... I will not respond again to you here and allow you to derail and destroy another topic ... Logic and reason are hard things to deal with having when most people you talk to don't measure up...when it comes to issues such as this, the liberals are on the short end of that stick because the dumbest people at the bottom of the food chain tend to congregate there ... White people in Westernized society have low birth rates. There is not low birth rates in any other demographic in Westernized societies. ... the most poor anywhere are the ones least equipped to survive on their own. There are always exceptions to the rule, but let's not start going all SJW and pretending that this isn't generally the truth. ... Stupid and weak people are poor because they are weak and stupid. ... That's just called survival of the fittest. In the animal kingdom where there is no welfare these people would not procreate because they would have already been eaten. ... I reject the notion that...I only have what I own today simply because of some systemic oppression of non-whites or women - SIX

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nobody EXCEPT YOU said 'only' Jack. There you go ... lying again.- KIKI

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... It's foolish and self-destructive behavior to just say that there is absolutely no benefit to hard work ... - SIX

and nobody EXCEPT YOU said that either, Jack. There you go ... lying again. - KIKI

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Originally posted by Wishimay:
At least I haven't been ignored for five years. :P

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

We're all just birdshit on the bottom of the cage.

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We're all just birdshit on the bottom of the cage. - SIGNY

BTW... I did keep a condom on it. Sometimes it doesn't work. I didn't get a chance to raise the child because she made up her mind to kill it. - SIX

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A majority of women who are on EIC are not because of fathers who walked away. They are because their fathers are in prison, usually for trivial crimes like selling weed. Thanks, Slick Willy.

I never claimed that raising kids was an easy job or that the EIC money and other benefits goes very far. That wasn't even part of my argument.

My argument was that because they have children, they end up getting paid twice what I get paid for the exact same job. The sting of this for me personally is that I work so much harder at a job than any of my male or female peers and I was working at a company that did not reward this behavior at all on top of it.- SIX

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Woe be on to you if you ever get into it with Kiki. She will confuse you by talking about so many things at once and make you say contradictory things if you're not careful. I was still somewhat recovering from a 4 year crippling addiction and my mind was a bit muddled. I wouldn't even take her bait anymore. She's an expert at arguing. Look at her. She lives for it. I think you're the only person on the board that hasn't fought with her.

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Originally posted by 6stringJoker:


My argument was that because they have children, they end up getting paid twice what I get paid for the exact same job. The sting of this for me personally is that I work so much harder at a job than any of my male or female peers and I was working at a company that did not reward this behavior at all on top of it.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Yeah, I understand that men may desire a chance at posterity via children. Despite the fact that I understand that feeling, I have a strict responsibility = authority rule on decisions like this, and since (during the nine months of pregnancy) it's women who get morning sickness, who may suffer from the negative professional or social effects of being unmarried and pregnant, and who face the physical risks of childbirth, IMHO men aren't the decision-makers in this situation.

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There should be some sort of comprimise. I know that you don't deal in absolutes either. There are half as many different situations as there are people involved in every different pregnancy, and I don't appreciate how the slant is 100% against men right now.

I would never have pushed for an abortion, because I personally believe that this is murder. That's not any sort of religion speaking, it's just my personal view on the matter. That being said, if I did push for it but she wanted to have the kid, I would be paying child support for the kid that I may or may not even get to see to this day.

Another thing I don't appreciate is when somebody says that you should keep it in your pants. Last I checked, it takes two to tango.

It's not that I don't get where you're coming from. The woman does have to deal with unwed pregnancy, interference at work or loss of a job, and all of the other things that come with the nine months. I just don't understand how this gives her 100% of control in the situation. She can decide to murder the baby or make the man pay for the next 18 years at whatever her whim is.

I don't know an ideal solution to this. I just know that this one size fits all approach is not right.

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Just OOC, if you knew that the father wasn't you, would you still feel the same? In other words, was this a desire to be a father, or a desire to nurture your genes?

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That's a good question. Unfortunately, all these years later I don't think I can give you an objective answer to that. I'm a hell of a lot more jaded now than I was back then, for this and many other reasons. I did love her, or at least I think I did... But because of my beliefs about abortions I found her to be a monster after the fact. Everything happened so quickly I didn't have any time to think about any of it and after it was over I buried it for many, many years.

I'm just a different person now. I don't think I'd make a good father at all today, or even a long term mate. I love living alone. I find occasional companionship for a change of pace, but it never really lasts long. Maybe deep down I was always like this. I'd like to think that I would have made a good father back then though...

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Well, you sure seem to resent the women who got it.

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I resent the fact that they got it. I don't resent them personally. The woman with the four kids was actually pretty great and had been to a few of my small parties for people from work. When I fell down the stairs and nearly broke my back and writhed in agony for about 3 days without sleep she came right over and gave me some muscle relaxants (since I wouldn't accept her offer for any pain pills).

I can't even really say that I resent the fact that they got it because I know her kids are pretty decent and she does a good job raising them on her own. Who knows what trouble they'd be getting into if they didn't have that extra money to stay afloat?

There was a lot of stuff going on in that conversation with Kiki there, and this is one of those examples where she comes at you from many different angles and makes you say things that appear to be contradictory if you aren't paying attention to the whole conversation and didn't pick up on that and read things out of context.

This whole issue was brought up about the BS "Gender Wage Gap". Obama comes out and talks about it like it's a real thing, so the less intelligent people I work with that just listen to sound bytes actually start to believe that if they're women I am making more than they do for the same job, which is absolutely illegal. And the truth is, in my area, many of the women who worked at that job had kids, and because of the EIC they actually made quite a bit more for the same job than I did (regardless of how hard I worked), was my point.

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Our whole society and culture doesn't value raising children. There's less room for the pregnant woman in any sort of profession; ads (which tell us what's desirable) focus entirely on young individuals having a lot of fun through excess consumption ... not a baby to be seen anywhere. There is also almost no accounting for people who take care of elderly or sick family members; the people who do this life-sucking work are primarily (but not always) women. I know that with overpopulation we don't need hordes of women wanting to crank out lots of babies, but raising children, like taking care of the sick and elderly, is HARD WORK.

You hate government-mandated schooling and you resent EIC, and if there was program where people taking care of the sick and elderly would get a boost to their paychecks you'd probably hate that too. So, do you think that kind of work is necessary for society to survive If so, how do you accommodate it so that people who take care of their children and grandchildren, their sick, and their elderly, are rewarded ... or at least accommodated ... for that work?

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I think that taking care of your elderly is going to be a necessity in the near future. My parents generation might be the last that gets to enjoy a decent retirement with their social security payouts and nice 401k packages (and a dollar that still is tied to oil and has value).

This is how we lived before. I'm sure we'll figure out how to do it again when times get rough. I've got a big house. Although I abhor the idea of living with my mom again, our relationship has improved greatly over the last few years. I've been spending most of the last month helping them remove the horde from their home and pack for their move down to warmer climates and I think I'm really going to miss them when they're gone. It's a shame I was drowning in alcohol the last 4 years and never got together with them much before they decided to uproot their entire life.

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Oh, I manage to argue a lot all on my own!

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Yeah. It's hard not to notice that, but it's generally with the same 2 or 3 people who can be absolutely insufferable in large doses. I've known you here for a long time and I've always thought of you as a decent person. It probably doesn't hurt that I think in many ways out of the remaining people here that you and I probably are more in-line with our viewpoints than anybody else.

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Hey SIX, I may not agree with you all of the time, but I find that you're very seldom righteous. There's too much righteousness here, including me, so I'm going to try and follow your example.

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I appreciate you noticing and saying so. I haven't really liked myself all that much for many years. My self image has actually greatly improved the last 8 months since I've been sober, and especially the last 2-3 months since I've been doing so much to help out my family with things and started taking pride in my home again.

What's ironic and totally great about this is that the need to defend yourself greatly decreases when things start going right in your life again.

Let the hater's hate.

Whatever makes you happy, right?

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Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
She murdered my child. Society allowed it. End of story.

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Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
Society allowed it.

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