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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I heard a show on NPR about civility. One of the participants was talking about how Trump supporters are racist, and that the only way to confront them and "make progress" is to be uncivil. What I heard as a constant subtext was win at all costs. Another participant who is an AIDS activist, who could never agree to participate in the ACT UP confrontations - but who nonetheless understood what they were trying to do - disagreed with the first participant. He kept saying that the current incivility (by liberals) seems to be purposeless.

I think was he was driving at was that the ACT UP confrontations were targeted and had specific goals in mind, whereas the personal incivility advocated by the first participant merely hardened positions and made thing worse.

I agree with him. When someone is driven out of a restaurant, what has that crowd/ mob accomplished? Will that person change their POV? Doubtful.

It's as RF said: no matter HOW civil you are, you will not convince anyone to be vegan. OTOH, the other side of the coin is: No matter how UNcivil you are, you will never convince anyone to give up meat. In fact, you will probably only harden them in their POV.

******

I have, at times, expressed the same thought as participant No 1. I know of several very large, peaceful demonstrations of somewhere in the realm of a million people (the 1976 pre-ERA demonstration in Washington was one such) that made absolutely no difference at all. Sometimes, it seemed to me, that you just gotta pick up some rocks to put pressure on the power structure.

On the other hand, personal incivility is worse than pointless, it's counterproductive. What does the aggressor hope to accomplish, other than getting a "lift" by expressing their own anger? Does it change anyone's POV ... except to the negative? Does it do anything to future encounters other than fuel future violence? When it's just a case of people talking to people, hurling insults may feel good temporarily but it doesn't really create progress, all it creates is division.

Now, I personally believe that we Americans face far larger problems than the ones that we're distracted by, and that being divided amongst ourselves is a fools' game.

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Criticism is futile because it puts a person on the defensive and usually makes them strive to justify themselves. ~Dale Carnagie

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Now, I personally believe that we Americans face far larger problems than the ones that we're distracted by, and that being divided amongst ourselves is a fools' game.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
On the other hand, personal incivility is worse than pointless, it's counterproductive. What does the aggressor hope to accomplish, other than getting a "lift" by expressing their own anger? Does it change anyone's POV ... except to the negative? Does it do anything to future encounters other than fuel future violence?

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Now, I personally believe that we Americans face far larger problems than the ones that we're distracted by, and that being divided amongst ourselves is a fools' game. - SIGNY

Signym, sorry to piss all over your worthless argument, but there is The Case Against Civility, In Five Charts.
www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/06/27/the-case-against-civili
ty-in-five-charts/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.eab5226fe254

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Chart #2 is particularly interesting because it points to an extremely unfair disadvantage for Democrats compared to Republicans. And it is built into the Constitution.

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There will need to be some extreme rudeness to take the unfairness back out.

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But you could go all the way to the Civil War for another example where the pro-slavery South believed that the North was being hideously rude about the institution of slavery.

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On the other hand, personal incivility is worse than pointless, it's counterproductive. What does the aggressor hope to accomplish, other than getting a "lift" by expressing their own anger? Does it change anyone's POV ... except to the negative? Does it do anything to future encounters other than fuel future violence? - SIGNY
Sometimes, Signym, a slave-owner crossed a line he does not recognize or refused to even acknowledge could exist and the slave killed the owner. I know it didn't end slavery for tens of millions in the Antebellum South, but many, many slave-owners were deserving of death long before the Civil War began. Some slave-owners got what they deserved during the war. Many others did not because they survived. Just a personal opinion. Opinions differed widely before 1860 about limits on what a slave-owner rightly could do to his property. Nowadays opinions differ on what a Republican rightly can do to an alien.- SECOND

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And on the topic of diets, nobody is going to change theirs unless they want to. If you had told me a year ago I'd be gluten free I would have laughed at you.

I've broken that diet 3 times since it has started. I've decided that if I'm out with people or somebody is cooking for me I'm not going to put any restrictions on them, since this is a lifestyle choice and it's not because I'm allergic to it (well... I've never been diagnosed with anything, but if I am it's not a life or death thing).

I can't speak for everyone, but making the change in my diet was not really that hard. It was certainly easier than giving up booze or pot, and infinitely easier than giving up coffee or cigarettes.

The pains are still there, but my job is very labor intensive and I'm not kid anymore. I've also done a lot of damage to my body over the years.

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I do hope that by continuing down the path I'm on that I can get rid of the pains without resorting to any drugs, even over the counter ones. The one thing positive I can say about being gluten free though is that I haven't had this much energy since I was in my early 20's. If my feet didn't hurt so much after 8 hours of work I could easily do another 4 hours of work before I went home.

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I'm actually hoping I can get to that point because I'm sure there wouldn't be any argument from management if I were to put in 12 hour days and then I could get in a 36 hour work week and still have four days off. :)

One day at a time baby. I cannot stress enough how great a gluten free diet is. If you can will yourself to start it and stick with it for a month or two, you will be amazed at how much more energy you will have.

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Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

On the other hand, personal incivility is worse than pointless, it's counterproductive.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
THIS from the person who castigated KIKI for going back to 1869 for a legal opinion on immigrants' rights? Dood, you invalidated anything else you might have to say on the topic if you reference anything that far back!

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Originally posted by captaincrunch:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

On the other hand, personal incivility is worse than pointless, it's counterproductive.

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From the person who posts graphic images of mutilated children you would be the authority of what incivility is - good one.

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THIS from the person who castigated KIKI for going back to 1869 for a legal opinion on immigrants' rights? Dood, you invalidated anything else you might have to say on the topic if you reference anything that far back!- SIGNY

Completely different argument. - RF

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On the other hand, personal incivility is worse than pointless, it's counterproductive. - SIGNY

From the person who posts graphic images of mutilated children you would be the authority of what incivility is - good one.- G

Good one G. I'd add that what you I and others do here is post reality ...

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Yeah, the left isn't civil.

THE RIGHT WING
The United States Is Witnessing a Shocking Rise in Alt-Right Violence
A new report reveals the crisis is much bigger than Charlottesville.
https://www.alternet.org/right-wing/united-states-witnessing-shocking-
rise-alt-right-violence

Is it really all that shocking, though? Hitler had his brownshirts. Trump has the alt-right. - RF

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Now, I personally believe that we Americans face far larger problems than the ones that we're distracted by, and that being divided amongst ourselves is a fools' game. - SIGNY

Signym, sorry to piss all over your worthless argument, but there is The Case Against Civility, In Five Charts.
www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/06/27/the-case-against-civili
ty-in-five-charts/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.eab5226fe254

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Your link doesn't work because I need a subscription to access the material, so if you really want a response to this material, you'll have to copy it here.

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Chart #2 is particularly interesting because it points to an extremely unfair disadvantage for Democrats compared to Republicans. And it is built into the Constitution.

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There was a point being made on NPR about this, and what I heard was how the Senate gave too much representation to rural states, and "gerrymandering".

Well, as far as the first point is concerned, our government was formed the way it was formed to get the "buy-in" of the original colonies. If you want to change THAT, you will need a Constitutional Amendment. Being personally uncivil to me, SIX, KIKI, or individual Trump supporters or staff members is not going to get you very far. NOT IF YOU INTEND TO PROCEED DEMOCRATICALLY, ANYWAY.

As far as fixing "gerrymandering" ... Democrats, when they were in power, gerrymandered district lines right up there with Republicans. If you want to gerrymander the lines back in Democrat's favor, then you will have to make sure that you have control of State Legislatures in 2020, after the Census is done. That might mean... yanno... appealing to a wider set of voters, and representing EVERYBODY's interests .... farmers as well as city-dwellers, whites as well as blacks, men in addition to women, citizens but not illegal immigrants, and religious people along with agnostics. That means finding the CORE INTERESTS of what draws America together, interests that we all have IN COMMON, and NOT playing off one group against another with increasingly fragmented identity politics, or focusing on baloney like RUSSIA!!. Maybe you can start by not characterizing a large number of Americans as "deplorables"? THAT sort of incivility really doesn't work in your favor.

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There will need to be some extreme rudeness to take the unfairness back out.

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I think I just pointed out how extreme rudeness doesn't work in your favor. Not if you intend to proceed democratically, anyway.

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But you could go all the way to the Civil War for another example where the pro-slavery South believed that the North was being hideously rude about the institution of slavery.

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THIS from the person who castigated KIKI for going back to 1869 for a legal opinion on immigrants' rights? Dood, you invalidated anything else you might have to say on the topic if you reference anything that far back!

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On the other hand, personal incivility is worse than pointless, it's counterproductive. What does the aggressor hope to accomplish, other than getting a "lift" by expressing their own anger? Does it change anyone's POV ... except to the negative? Does it do anything to future encounters other than fuel future violence? - SIGNY
Sometimes, Signym, a slave-owner crossed a line he does not recognize or refused to even acknowledge could exist and the slave killed the owner. I know it didn't end slavery for tens of millions in the Antebellum South, but many, many slave-owners were deserving of death long before the Civil War began. Some slave-owners got what they deserved during the war. Many others did not because they survived. Just a personal opinion. Opinions differed widely before 1860 about limits on what a slave-owner rightly could do to his property. Nowadays opinions differ on what a Republican rightly can do to an alien.- SECOND

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Well, like I said: IF references that far back in time are irrelevant as far as you're concerned, your argument is a moot point.

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And the so-called left has its ANTIFA, who themselves have been videoed inciting and committing violence.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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And on the topic of diets, nobody is going to change theirs unless they want to. If you had told me a year ago I'd be gluten free I would have laughed at you.

I've broken that diet 3 times since it has started. I've decided that if I'm out with people or somebody is cooking for me I'm not going to put any restrictions on them, since this is a lifestyle choice and it's not because I'm allergic to it (well... I've never been diagnosed with anything, but if I am it's not a life or death thing).

I can't speak for everyone, but making the change in my diet was not really that hard. It was certainly easier than giving up booze or pot, and infinitely easier than giving up coffee or cigarettes.

The pains are still there, but my job is very labor intensive and I'm not kid anymore. I've also done a lot of damage to my body over the years.

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Have you gotten that canola oil?? It's very VERY necessary in order for you body to make anti-inflammatory hormones.

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I do hope that by continuing down the path I'm on that I can get rid of the pains without resorting to any drugs, even over the counter ones. The one thing positive I can say about being gluten free though is that I haven't had this much energy since I was in my early 20's. If my feet didn't hurt so much after 8 hours of work I could easily do another 4 hours of work before I went home.

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It it your heels or your whole foot? Because if just your heels, you have plantar fasciitis, and SIX, I had it... tried everything (anti-inflammatories like ibuprofen, stretching, foot soaks, RX'ed heel cups, staying off my feet) and I found a pair of $10 inserts that really worked.

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I'm actually hoping I can get to that point because I'm sure there wouldn't be any argument from management if I were to put in 12 hour days and then I could get in a 36 hour work week and still have four days off. :)

One day at a time baby. I cannot stress enough how great a gluten free diet is. If you can will yourself to start it and stick with it for a month or two, you will be amazed at how much more energy you will have.

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Gluten-free here too, SIX. I was dxed with a number of food allergies (altho allergic to a crap-ton of OTHER foods not allergic to wheat, per test) and also specifically tested for gluten sensitivity (not gluten sensitive either, per test) but when I took wheat out of my diet the arthritic aches and pains almost went completely away. I sleep a zillion times better now that my shoulders and hips don't hurt. I can't explain it, but it works for me.

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Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Good words to live by.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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No one has ever been killed by Antifa. Ever. Reichwing terrorists murder more people than any other terrorist group in the US, including Muslims.

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And every single one of them ADORES Trump. They are his brownshirts.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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No one has ever been killed by Antifa. Ever. Reichwing terrorists murder more people than any other terrorist group in the US, including Muslims.

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One of the things Id like to know is whether their figures include some of the nutcases who sound like they're off their rocker; 'cause those I'd put in the "nutcase" category.

Also, don't forget that the biggest category of violent crimes are nonwhite on nonwhite. There have also been some pretty spectacular jihadist-inspired mass killings in the USA. SPLC tends to focus on only one kind of victim and one kind of crime.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:


FREM threatened violence against Trump supporters.
THUGR's [imaginary] "friend" supposedly sent my particulars to the FBI.
SECOND was calling for violence against me.
THUGR, G, WISHY, and SECOND routinely libel Kiki and me.

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Originally posted by Wishimay:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:


FREM threatened violence against Trump supporters.
THUGR's [imaginary] "friend" supposedly sent my particulars to the FBI.
SECOND was calling for violence against me.
THUGR, G, WISHY, and SECOND routinely libel Kiki and me.

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Hmmm. If everyone hates you, you ever think maybe there's a reason for that?? That maybe your obsession with wars that none of us could do a damn thing about is really obnoxious and over the top? That communism is a truly horrible idea and no one here wants it, yet you still push it... because like 6ix you think you are a genius? That you constantly excuse Russians for their manipulative crap, maybe because you are full of manipulative crap??

Btw, I didn't know someone actually turned you in... to that though. Seriously, nothing you talk about is in the best interest of this country. Either something is very, very, VERY wrong with you, or you are here specifically to subvert... I don't care which it is, but I think you need to seriously leave this country and go where you think it is soooo much better for your "ideals" 'cause it ain't HERE.

I think it's funny. I came here one day for idle chat and you made me be anti-communist, JSF made me become anti-Republican, and 6ix made me into a feminist. It's seeing into the depths of human obliviousness here that's made me realize what's truly important....


PS. You do know it's not illegal to be a communist in the US, right? If you are encouraging a violent overthrow of the government, yeah they can do something about that, but if you are just pushing dumb communist ideals they aren't going to do anything more than question you (AND THEY SHOULD).

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Hey Sigs...

Stop conversing with RF. He's an idiot.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Wow. lol

My drunken ramblings turned you into a feminist? I wasn't aware I had so much power.


I could dig up some horrible things you've said about your husband in the past. I suppose I'm to blame for your relationship problems as well then?


I'd say that I was flattered, if your entire statement here wasn't flagrant hyperbole.


I'm trying to figure out which person you would have been in high school if the internet was around back then? Would you be the one cyber bullying other kids until they killed themselves, or would you have been on this list?

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If I'm sooo evil, why hasn't he left? Why does my kid want to homeschool for another year? Hmmm?- WISHY

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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If I'm sooo evil, why hasn't he left? Why does my kid want to homeschool for another year? Hmmm?- WISHY

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Stockholm Syndrome?

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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And on the topic of diets, nobody is going to change theirs unless they want to. If you had told me a year ago I'd be gluten free I would have laughed at you.

I've broken that diet 3 times since it has started. I've decided that if I'm out with people or somebody is cooking for me I'm not going to put any restrictions on them, since this is a lifestyle choice and it's not because I'm allergic to it (well... I've never been diagnosed with anything, but if I am it's not a life or death thing).

I can't speak for everyone, but making the change in my diet was not really that hard. It was certainly easier than giving up booze or pot, and infinitely easier than giving up coffee or cigarettes.

The pains are still there, but my job is very labor intensive and I'm not kid anymore. I've also done a lot of damage to my body over the years.

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Have you gotten that canola oil?? It's very VERY necessary in order for you body to make anti-inflammatory hormones.

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I do hope that by continuing down the path I'm on that I can get rid of the pains without resorting to any drugs, even over the counter ones. The one thing positive I can say about being gluten free though is that I haven't had this much energy since I was in my early 20's. If my feet didn't hurt so much after 8 hours of work I could easily do another 4 hours of work before I went home.

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It it your heels or your whole foot? Because if just your heels, you have plantar fasciitis, and SIX, I had it... tried everything (anti-inflammatories like ibuprofen, stretching, foot soaks, RX'ed heel cups, staying off my feet) and I found a pair of $10 inserts that really worked.

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I'm actually hoping I can get to that point because I'm sure there wouldn't be any argument from management if I were to put in 12 hour days and then I could get in a 36 hour work week and still have four days off. :)

One day at a time baby. I cannot stress enough how great a gluten free diet is. If you can will yourself to start it and stick with it for a month or two, you will be amazed at how much more energy you will have.

---

Gluten-free here too, SIX. I was dxed with a number of food allergies (altho allergic to a crap-ton of OTHER foods not allergic to wheat, per test) and also specifically tested for gluten sensitivity (not gluten sensitive either, per test) but when I took wheat out of my diet the arthritic aches and pains almost went completely away. I sleep a zillion times better now that my shoulders and hips don't hurt. I can't explain it, but it works for me.

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Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Good words to live by.

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And you want civility? LOL!- F

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Now, imagine your average rabid cult following Donald supporter hearing things like that over and over from your President...

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Also keep in mind, Donald is attacking freedom of the press for not one thing more than to cover up his mistakes and misdoings.

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Funny you mention Canola oil again. I finally did remember to pick it up this week and today will be my third time cooking with it. How long would you suggest before I start seeing any possible improvements? Do I have to use it everyday? - SIX

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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And you want civility? LOL!- F

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From you, here is this forum? YES, I DO.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I'm not Trump. I'm not a Trump follower. I'm not a white racist. I'm not a "Russian troll"(!). I'm not a communist. I'm not ANYthing of those categories that you deem so frightful that they deserve to be blasted with both barrels. More importantly, I'm not DOING ANYTHING that deserves to be defended against. I'm merely posting MY OPINION, which seems to be too much "free speech" and "free thought" for some around here.

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Originally posted by captaincrunch:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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And you want civility? LOL!- F

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From you, here is this forum? YES, I DO.

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Now THAT is the most ironic statement ever posted on FFF.net

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I'm not Trump. I'm not a Trump follower. I'm not a white racist. I'm not a "Russian troll"(!). I'm not a communist. I'm not ANYthing of those categories that you deem so frightful that they deserve to be blasted with both barrels. More importantly, I'm not DOING ANYTHING that deserves to be defended against. I'm merely posting MY OPINION, which seems to be too much "free speech" and "free thought" for some around here.

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Nah, you're a troll who posts images of mutilated children. Worse than that, you post them over and over and then come up with some phony outrage to justify being a troll. And you post those images without any regard for the victim or their family and without any knowledge or real concern for how the person actually died. You really can't be more uncivil or a bigger pos troll than that.
Hey, you never did answer how you'd feel if it was your daughter in those images - how come?

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Libertarian? Conservative? Classic Liberal? Leftivists don’t just believe you’re a bad person — they WANT to believe it

I’m not a social media person, but a few days ago, I posted my very first comment on Instagram, in response to a woman whose site I had read for years. Enraged by the border story, she had just posted an Instagram ordering those who didn’t see the world her way to take a hike.

It puzzled me at first. Hers is not a political site – far from it. And though she claimed she didn’t care about likes, I know that she has struggled for years with the classic insecurity bloggers often face when confronted with the popularity contest that is the Internet. She was posting in order to vent — and to let others know that she was, unlike half the country, kind, good-hearted and moral.

She was, in essence, although genuinely (and understandably) angered by the idea of children in distress, virtue signaling… another common symptom found on Internetitis.

“Don’t let the door hit you on the way out, jabronis!” she wrote. (I had to look that one up; it’s cool kid slang for ignorant.)

Was she kicking non-leftists — conservatives, libertarians and classic liberals — off her Instagram? I decided to ask.

We’ve had lunch together years ago (a prelude to an interview I did with her). When her first child was born, I sent her a gift, and when her husband started a small business, I supported their young, gutsy entrepreneurial spirit by purchasing some merchandise.

She doesn’t “know” me, but she should know me well enough to see that I am not the “monster” she thinks all those not on the left to be.

I posted. My comment was polite, respectful and pointed out that she might not have the whole story. (Although I shouldn’t have to say this, the audio we all heard broke my heart and angered me as well. No compassionate human being alive can be immune to the sounds of a child in distress. But that wasn’t my point in my comment. My point, in response to her post, is that she was vilifying people outright based on a very narrow version of that story… and that furthering the divide doesn’t exactly engender progress towards solutions.)

You can imagine what happened next: All remnants of “inclusiveness” and “LoveTrumpsHate” went out the window. Other commenters railed at me, calling me self-righteous, IGNORANT, and other names. And the blogger herself showed me the door: I wasn’t good enough for her. In the face of my terribleness, she told the crowd, she would “draw the line.”

She was superior to me. Period.

It wasn’t a great shock. These are the same types of people who shunned conservative family members the Thanksgiving after Donald Trump won the election. In the extreme, this is the same type who opened fire on a group of Republican Congressmen (a story the media quickly dropped, which would not have happened if they’d been Democrats). The same type who openly wish horrible fates on the wife and child of the president.

I tried to post another comment, in response to some of the attacks.

It wouldn’t post. I’d been blocked. And demonized. For stating that she might not have the whole story, and that it might be good to listen to each other.

The lessons here:

1) The campaign to control people by keeping them in a [permanent] state of agitated, enraged crisis is working — really, really well;

2) The campaign to demonize the other side through such means truly is embroiling us in, as ethicist Dennis Prager has said for years, a (thus far non-violent) civil war; and, in short,

3)They WANT to believe we’re evil.

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Leftism, as Mr. Prager has stated for years, is the world’s fastest growing religion. It is a tribe. A belief system. An identity.

People like to belong to something. In the absence of traditional religion in the West, Leftism has filled that vacuum in the form of identity politics.

When Barack Obama won his second election, I was upset. After having covered him in the 2008 Presidential Campaign, and having voted for him then, I’d seen how recklessly and deliberately he had run up the debt – in what Dinesh D’Souza calls the ultimate weapon of mass destruction – and how he had fomented race wars in a way not seen before in my lifetime.

But did I shun my leftist friends? Did I demonize them for wanting kids to be confused about what chromosomes they had? Did I “ghost” them – the way a number of acquaintances did me when they found out I wasn’t part of their tribe?

Of course not. But politics isn’t my identity. If someone disagrees with me, I’m not under the illusion that they are rejecting who I am.

Not so on the left. (And I’m not talking about classic liberals here — those JFK types who share many conservative values but think that bigger government is the answer to society’s problems.)

If I don’t think a man who happily baked for gay people should be forced to bake a wedding cake for a gay couple, then I am a homophobic bigot. (Tell my best friend of 25 years, who is gay, and whose wedding I’ve offered to plan.)

If I think that voting for someone simply because it’s “time” for a woman to be president is a silly reason to do so, I am anti-woman. (I’m a woman.)

If I know, from having worked in the news media for 15 years, that the press is, by and large, top-down, lock-step on the left, then I am an alt-right fringe conspiracy theorist… and a fascist at that.

The blogger in question didn’t want to discuss the story. Didn’t want to discuss issues. Didn’t want to discuss solutions. What she wanted was to feel good about her position, and to signal it to all those around her. (My husband calls it — forgive the crudeness — virtubating.)

She wants to tell everyone she’s in the right tribe. She wants to believe that all not in that tribe are terrible, horrible, no good, very bad people. That reinforces her belief that her tribe — her identity – is correct.

That’s why they truly believe that anyone not on the left want children in cages and treated like animals. And if there’s a question that this is about identity — let this blogger be an example. Earlier, she had posted that she’d lost a lot of her patriotism after Trump’s election.

In other words — her tribe had lost. So she didn’t like the country anymore.

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But then she started getting into genealogy and found out that her ancestors were on the Mayflower. And that — being Northerners — they’d been on the correct side during the first Civil War. That made her patriotic again.

Note — it wasn’t the tenets of America, the freedoms upon which we were founded, the extraordinary courage of the Founding Fathers and those who fought with them — that made her patriotic. It was her family’s identity. See – the Left doesn’t believe in American exceptionalism. It believes in its own.

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Originally posted by JJ:

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Originally posted by captaincrunch:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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And you want civility? LOL!- F

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From you, here is this forum? YES, I DO.

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Now THAT is the most ironic statement ever posted on FFF.net

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I'm not Trump. I'm not a Trump follower. I'm not a white racist. I'm not a "Russian troll"(!). I'm not a communist. I'm not ANYthing of those categories that you deem so frightful that they deserve to be blasted with both barrels. More importantly, I'm not DOING ANYTHING that deserves to be defended against. I'm merely posting MY OPINION, which seems to be too much "free speech" and "free thought" for some around here.

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Nah, you're a troll who posts images of mutilated children. Worse than that, you post them over and over and then come up with some phony outrage to justify being a troll. And you post those images without any regard for the victim or their family and without any knowledge or real concern for how the person actually died. You really can't be more uncivil or a bigger pos troll than that.
Hey, you never did answer how you'd feel if it was your daughter in those images - how come?

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Well put G, well put.

T

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Rather than being upset by the FACT that we've tortured and killed people in their own nations, or trained and paid someone to do it for us ... ]

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Originally posted by Wishimay:

YOU CAN'T FIX PEOPLE.

I mean, you're proof!

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Rather than being upset by the FACT that we've tortured and killed people in their own nations, or trained and paid someone to do it for us ... - SIGNY

You are never going to GET the irony of your own claptrap... Blathering about how horrible people

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... and yet expecting people to get along enough to share EVERYTHING. - WISHY

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I believe in solving problems, not sharing them

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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And you want civility? LOL!- F

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From you, here is this forum? YES, I DO.

I'm not Trump. I'm not a Trump follower. I'm not a white racist. I'm not a "Russian troll"(!). I'm not a communist. I'm not ANYthing of those categories that you deem so frightful that they deserve to be blasted with both barrels. More importantly, I'm not DOING ANYTHING that deserves to be defended against. I'm merely posting MY OPINION, which seems to be too much "free speech" and "free thought" for some around here.

You see people, groups and activities and you become so agitated that you turn around and blast people here?? You've conflated a discussion board with real life, and you seem to think that trolling people who are NOT YOUR ENEMIES is some sort of effective political action?

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Now, imagine your average rabid cult following Donald supporter hearing things like that over and over from your President...

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The average rabid cult that you refer to is, as you said, imaginary. I know quite a few Trump voters, even here in deep blue southern CA, and they are overwhelmingly well-educated, nonwhite immigrants, and at least half of them are women. Maybe if I lived someplace else I'd get a different view of the people that you imagine that you're talking about, but so far your statements and my experience don't square up.

So instead of responding to IMAGINARY ENEMIES, why don't you respond to the real people who are actually posting here? READ what they post, and stop imputing motives to them that they don't have.

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Also keep in mind, Donald is attacking freedom of the press for not one thing more than to cover up his mistakes and misdoings.

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The press is critical of Trump, but one thing it is NOT is "free", it is owned by giant transnationals and is more or less hostage to their interests. Also, it certainly isn't unbiased. The so-called "free press" gave Obama and Hillary giant free passes on all of their corrupt, imperialistic, Constitution-shredding behaviors. It's too bad that we can't count on the socalled "free press" to do it's job of giving us the news about important events and trends.

I'm all up for discussion; I want to know what you think and why, but the truly rabid, hate-filled people that I've experienced lately are all here - people who claim to be liberals who are deeply concerned about "freedom".

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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Apparently GSTRING votes against civility, too: He just can't stop himself from attacking, even in a thread about civility.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Oh, I still wonder what GSTRING's role was in that south-of-the-border movie that apparently involved torture. He CLAIMED to have had a part in it. I wonder how much "civility" was involved.

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