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Originally posted by WISHIMAY:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

And you were doing so good Wishy. Having a legitimate adult conversation for almost two days on the subject. I was going to comment on that before, but I knew it was just a matter of time before the other shoe dropped.

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"He doesn't read" ISN'T an attack, it's truth. You deny ANYTHING you don't personally see yourself and you don't believe written laws and principles of science because you (AGAIN) lack the personality to validate to YOURSELF what already is proven fact.

Personality, meaning: set of traits that allow intellectual function.

You have a mental disorder. Not kidding, not attacking.
If you could put your broken ego aside you could see it and fix it.


You stopped drinking, you got a job, now UNDERSTAND SCIENCE. Pick up a book fer crissakes...

Black holes exist, weed ISN'T all good for you, and this planet is shaped like a lumpy lemon.

There's yer starting point.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
So, you cannot answer, you have no clue about the basic facts of pot, you avoid your failures by not even bothering to try to answer.

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I asked you who smoked pot that you cared about that fucked you over to make you have such a hardon for it.

You answered my question with a question of your own.

You answer first.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by WISHIMAY:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
If one wants to help "repair" blacks in America, one should legalize weed and stop putting the fathers in prison for 25 to life for selling it.

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Not so fast. As much as I think weed is better than booze, weed still has plenty of negatives. Just today there was a study that found that women that used it for morning sickness had babies that have fewer neurons in the memory sections of the brain. That's a biggie. It would also explain why people who use it regularly before 27-ish are more apathetic and less competent because your brain isn't done forming connections to those areas until then. And according to recent traffic studies in states where weed is legal, there ARE more accidents and people on weed are more likely to be on OTHER substances when arrested for DUI.

Maybe we should make it legal for people who can prove they cannot procreate or drive. Less people, more buses...win win.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Pot is not "harmless"... it DOES have an effect on people's brains ... that's why they ingest/smoke/vape it!

OTOH, it's not a Class 1 Drug either. It should either be legalized AND REGULATED, or possession should be reduced to a misdemeanor.

I personally don't like pot. In fact, I absolutely hate that "free floating" effect.

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And you were doing so good Wishy. Having a legitimate adult conversation for almost two days on the subject. I was going to comment on that before, but I knew it was just a matter of time before the other shoe dropped.- SIX

"He doesn't read" ISN'T an attack, it's truth. WISHY

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You have a mental disorder. Not kidding, not attacking.
If you could put your broken ego aside you could see it and fix it.- WISHY

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
JSF: You're doing what a lot of the liberaliods here do: Misstating what someone posted and then attacking them on it.

I didn't see SIX post that marijuana was "all good", just that it wasn't as bad as booze or cigarettes.

Do you have a problem with that position? If so, why?

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
So, you cannot answer, you have no clue about the basic facts of pot, you avoid your failures by not even bothering to try to answer.

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I asked you who smoked pot that you cared about that fucked you over to make you have such a hardon for it.

You answered my question with a question of your own.

You answer first.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Well, you certainly post like you're stoned, or verge of Trollhood.

You did not ask a question. I've already quoted your post, so go reread what you posted, despite what your mind thinks you posted.

I asked a question, you avoided it.


You first. No, you first, no you first.

It's OK for you to admit you don't know anything. I've assumed that for a long time now.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Oh... and BTW, JSF, I haven't smoked in years now. As long as they refuse to legalize it on a national level, I'm not risking the admittedly very small chance that a job that pays well enough for me to consider working full time comes along.

I'm also wondering what horrible thing somebody you cared about did while smoking weed that makes you so adamant against it. You're honestly the only person online or IRL that I know that thinks the way you do about it in 2019.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Sorry JSF, I misatritbuted that quote; it came from (who else?) WISHY.

SIX, I find YOUR response to JSF to be overly provocative and personal.

But, be that as it may ...

SIX, you can't ignore the negative effects of pot, just as ... JSF you cant ignore the positives. It's not like they cancel out.

It's like ANY drug ... it has pluses and side effects. You have to be aware of both.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

The one who jumps into completely neutral threads just to attack, and keep on attacking?


Now, do you suppose we could get back to the discussion that YOU started?

Are you still supporting Booker? If yes, why? If no, have you decided on an alternate?

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:


I also find it rather telling that JSF hardly ever insults me unless the topic of pot comes up. Then he behaves exactly like the "Libtards" on this forum that he so despises. You noticed that yourself.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SIX, you can't ignore the negative effects of pot, just as ... JSF you cant ignore the positives. It's not like they cancel out.

It's like ANY drug ... it has pluses and side effects. You have to be aware of both.

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Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Anyway...

Buttigieg continues to impress me, but that doesn't always mean he'd make a good president, or that he'd beat Dump. Good article here:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Why the "nah" for Yang, CC?

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Hmm... interesting list.Just OOC, of the people that you listed as "not seeing it/ not this time" it's because you think they won't get the votes, correct? Why do you supposed that is?

What is it that you like about Buttigieg? Does he have specific positions/ history that particularly appeal to you, over all of the other choices? I admit, I never heard of him before, and name recognition counts for a lot.

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Originally posted by WISHIMAY:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Why the "nah" for Yang, CC?

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Wondering myself. The man wants to give $1000 a month to every adult in a kind or wealth restructuring because corporations are sucking it all up and he has a very good point about almost 60% of the population is paycheck to paycheck. My neighbors have three kids and two decent jobs and she's been begging the use of my car because they have NO savings and NO credit and her van died. The older kids will both be driving age by next year and they can't afford them to drive.

I think $1000 bucks a month is never going to work, but unfortunately...people like my neighbors are the rule rather the exception these days. Several of my kids friends won't be driving until 18 or later. Just keeping a vehicle running is crazy crazy expensive. We've spent $60k on vehicles ourselves in 10 years, with the four accidents....Sure we got a about half that back from insurance, but it's been a struggle for us to keep up with repairs.

My kiddo should be getting her license in the next couple months and her friends are jealous. I think that's odd. It doesn't help driver's ed isn't taught IN school anymore.

I feel bad for Millennials. They really are going to have the worst financial time since the 20's.

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You don't follow Homosexual Politicians?

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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You don't follow Homosexual Politicians?

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Gay, female, male, black, straight, old, yellow, brown, young, white ... I don't give a fuck. People who pay attention to that sort of stuff deserve what they get.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

This is why I don't feel bad for them being the cause of their own prophecy.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Hmm... interesting list.Just OOC, of the people that you listed as "not seeing it/ not this time" it's because you think they won't get the votes, correct? Why do you supposed that is?

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
OK, I looked him up. Here's what I found out about him:

He's the youngest mayor of a city over 100,000. (South Bend, Indianna)
He served in the naval reserves for seven months, separated from the military and came out as gay
Smart enough to get a Rhodes scholarship (just like Bill Clinton)
Reversed the population decline of South Bend
Appeals to millenials, likes Instagram
Wants to raise the minimum wage and is for Medicare for all

That leaves a lot of unknowns:
How did he reverse the population decline of South Bend? Did he attract more jobs? If so, what kind?
What does he think about military spending, and our endless wars abroad?
What does he think about the budget deficit, our infrastructural decay, and manufacturing deficit?
Climate change?
How does he intend to pay for "Medicare for all", and preserve jobs if the minimum wage increase causes loss of jobs?
Immigration?

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Originally posted by WISHIMAY:

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Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Anyway...

Buttigieg continues to impress me, but that doesn't always mean he'd make a good president, or that he'd beat Dump. Good article here:

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I just don't see it happening. I step out the front door and ask myself how many of these people would vote for a gay man and the answer is a resounding "not enough."

And of the ones that wouldn't mind if he's gay and vote for him, how many wanna watch guys be gay on TV for four years?? Even less.

The plus side, I would look forward to an era of good decorating

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Originally posted by WISHIMAY:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Why the "nah" for Yang, CC?

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Wondering myself. The man wants to give $1000 a month to every adult in a kind or wealth restructuring because corporations are sucking it all up and he has a very good point about almost 60% of the population is paycheck to paycheck. My neighbors have three kids and two decent jobs and she's been begging the use of my car because they have NO savings and NO credit and her van died. The older kids will both be driving age by next year and they can't afford them to drive.

I think $1000 bucks a month is never going to work, but unfortunately...people like my neighbors are the rule rather the exception these days. Several of my kids friends won't be driving until 18 or later. Just keeping a vehicle running is crazy crazy expensive. We've spent $60k on vehicles ourselves in 10 years, with the four accidents....Sure we got a about half that back from insurance, but it's been a struggle for us to keep up with repairs.

My kiddo should be getting her license in the next couple months and her friends are jealous. I think that's odd. It doesn't help driver's ed isn't taught IN school anymore.

I feel bad for Millennials. They really are going to have the worst financial time since the 20's.

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I thought he was rather unimpressive when I've seen him interviewed.

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Sure, he's a smart guy with some decent ideas, but I just don't see him getting the votes even with $1000 a month bribery/promise.

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In Washington, he knows, none of that applies, and as president he’d face much more consequential decisions than how people pay their water bills. There, gridlock is now built into the system. As a result, he says he wants to change some of the fundamental processes of national politics and policy: Ditch the electoral college, do away with the Senate filibuster, and redesign the system for appointing Supreme Court justices.

He talks about investing in artificial intelligence and other technologies so that the US can compete with China and other countries, easing the transition to a new economy by insisting on portable health benefits, and taking a look at Universal Basic Income.

But he also points to the emotional toll of job loss. “You can’t just match up one job to another based on the demand in the labor market,” he said. “You gotta know whether it aligns with someone’s sense of who they are. So the idea that someone who was a machinist will succeed as a nurse’s aide, it’s not necessarily relevant to how he sees himself.” And if they can’t find a new identity in work, family, faith, or community, more nefarious substitutes—drug addiction, white nationalism—will slip in.

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Originally posted by WISHIMAY:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Why the "nah" for Yang, CC?

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Wondering myself. The man wants to give $1000 a month to every adult in a kind or wealth restructuring because corporations are sucking it all up and he has a very good point about almost 60% of the population is paycheck to paycheck. My neighbors have three kids and two decent jobs and she's been begging the use of my car because they have NO savings and NO credit and her van died. The older kids will both be driving age by next year and they can't afford them to drive.

I think $1000 bucks a month is never going to work, but unfortunately...people like my neighbors are the rule rather the exception these days. Several of my kids friends won't be driving until 18 or later. Just keeping a vehicle running is crazy crazy expensive. We've spent $60k on vehicles ourselves in 10 years, with the four accidents....Sure we got a about half that back from insurance, but it's been a struggle for us to keep up with repairs.

My kiddo should be getting her license in the next couple months and her friends are jealous. I think that's odd. It doesn't help driver's ed isn't taught IN school anymore.

I feel bad for Millennials. They really are going to have the worst financial time since the 20's.

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Originally posted by WISHIMAY:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
This is why I don't feel bad for them being the cause of their own prophecy.

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Really?? You don't think the older generations have a hand or twelve in making conditions like these??

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6916417/Minnesota-farmers-tea
rful-video-shares-industry-troubles.html

In the last month I've seen stores closing EVERYWHERE, Fred's, Sears, Target, Victoria's Secret, Macy's, JCPenny's, Bed Bath and Beyond... they have no money to spend ANYWHERE.

Between stores closing, low profitability in many lines of work, automation, student loans that aren't worth a damn, overpriced housing and vehicles and healthcare, NO chance at retiring, high cancer rates... they are screwed and it's all our fault.



The young don't always do the intelligent thing, but I can safely say the old have DEFINITELY done the dumb thing over and over and over.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
The older demographic has always been a stable factor: how they vote, what they vote for or against, how often they vote, how consistently they can find those mysterious poll booths.

But the most important thing is that they can still find cash to pay exorbitant prices for the latest handheld media. Who needs cars, homes, jobs? That's all extraneous.

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Originally posted by captaincrunch:
His connection to silicon valley? I see that as being easily spun into a negative in a general election.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:


They don't teach drivers ed in school anymore??? Jeez.

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I like what Yang has to say. I already said months ago that I'm voting Democrat in the primaries, even though I'm going to vote for Trump in the General. Right now, Yang has my primary vote.

If it comes to pass that Yang might actually have a chance, it's possible that I would vote for him in the general. That's a long way from now though, and I'm not going to be giving that much thought for a long time.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:


How does he feel about multi-lateral "free trade" deals that are decided in secret corporate-run trade tribunals?

How does he feel about our endless wars and "regime change" operations? The military/security budget?

What about illegal immigration? Is he one of these nutty Silicon Valley people who welcome/think we can accommodate an endless flood of illegal migrants?

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

About UBI: Is it expenditure neutral? In other words .... if you take all of the $$ spent on various forms of welfare ... housing subsidies, food stamps, welfare, assistance to the severely disabled ... and lump it all into one sum, would that pay for UBI? Or would more $$ be needed? And, if more $$ is needed, where will it come from? Would UBI eliminate EIC? How would UBI interact with tax breaks for the poor? With state and county aid (which is partially paid for by the Federal government)? Would it be available to the non-citizen? Would retirees receiving Social Security also get UBI? Since this UBI is aimed at adults, what would this do to assistance SPECIFICALLY AIMED AT CHILDREN AND THE DISABLED (though Social Security) and the homeless (who seem to need help above and beyond more money)?

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
About UBI: Is it expenditure neutral? In other words .... if you take all of the $$ spent on various forms of welfare ... housing subsidies, food stamps, welfare, assistance to the severely disabled ... and lump it all into one sum, would that pay for UBI? Or would more $$ be needed? And, if more $$ is needed, where will it come from? Would UBI eliminate EIC? How would UBI interact with tax breaks for the poor? With state and county aid (which is partially paid for by the Federal government)? Would it be available to the non-citizen? Would retirees receiving Social Security also get UBI? Since this UBI is aimed at adults, what would this do to assistance SPECIFICALLY AIMED AT CHILDREN AND THE DISABLED (though Social Security) and the homeless (who seem to need help above and beyond more money)?

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It's supposed to be expenditure neutral. Show me a candidate promising anything that is exactly what it's said to be though.

UBI would eliminate EIC. Bad news for single mothers with 3 kids, I suppose, but it's still more than the EIC benefits they'd get. Having 3 kids was their choice, and that's how they'll be spending their UBI.

This is one of the things that I like about UBI. It provides a safety net for everyone who needs it, but it is also given to everyone at the same time. Jeff Bezos would even get it. It's a reward to those who make smart decisions, while still being enough to live on for the completely destitute. What you need to be taking into consideration here as well is that you can still work any job you want, making as much as you can make without being penalized (unlike every form of welfare out there today).

Would more money be needed if all of the other safety nets were eliminated? Honestly, I don't know. I haven't seen figures on that or researched it. In 2010, $58 Billion went out for EIC payments. Hardly a dent in the roughly $3 Trillion per year that would be required for a $1,000/mo. UBI for every adult in America.


You bring up some good questions about SSI and SSDI. I don't know the answer to any of them. $1,000/mo. would be more than my brother gets in SSDI, but when combined with his food stamps, it would be less.

First thing I would do is put strong caps on SSI payments for the elderly who don't need it. There's not much that enrages me more than retirees refering to their SSI payments as "casino money". It's one of the big reason's that you'll start hearing the term "boomers" being used as an insult, particularly among milennials.

I would say that if you have under a certain amount of other income and net value, then you either get SSI or just your UBI which would be guaranteed to everyone.



There would be a LOT of things to work out to make sure this worked properly. I just think it would be a lot easier to maintain and update when there is a single system out there for everyone, with maybe a satellite or two for extreme cases such as disabled people who have nobody to care for them.


Oh... and making a rule that the UBI was guaranteed to go up with inflation from the very beginning is a must. We don't need to make the same mistake we did with the minimum wage twice.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by rue:
"cuts made somewhere else" military

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Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
I think I'm going with Booker.

I saw a clip of him on Ellen, he's articulate and seems like he knows how to act. He helped balance the budget in Newark for the first time in a decade. Rethugs will like that he's pro-gun and pro-enforcing gun laws we already have. Isn't threatened by LGBTQ. If he marries Rosario Dawson he'll have the geek parade eating out of his hands. Oh, and he'd like a woman VP, so that's a great first step on that front too.

Plus being black would piss off Trump, so that could only be a postive.

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Too soon to pick one for me wish. Not to soon to start looking and talking about who's running though.

T

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Originally posted by captaincrunch:
If you could instead get a utility/rent/food credit every month, I'd be more interested. I know that's no fun, but if you're really out to help people make life better and not tempt their weaker, darker natures, then that's the best way to go.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I don't like all of that government intrusion. maybe YOU want to control everyone, WISHY, but I don't.

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Originally posted by WISHIMAY:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I don't like all of that government intrusion. maybe YOU want to control everyone, WISHY, but I don't.

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Yer dense if you think they don't ALREADY do that.

Also, this could be a voluntary system. Don't like it, pay your own way.

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