' The truth - We will go extinct, very soon.' by reaverfan

There goes the "hopium" again.

Emails: Trump official consulting climate change rejecters
https://apnews.com/4ec9affd55a345d582a4cc810686137e

A Trump administration national security official has sought help from advisers to a think tank that disavows climate change to challenge widely accepted scientific findings on global warming, according to his emails.

The request from William Happer, a member of the National Security Council, is included in emails from 2018 and 2019 that were obtained by the Environmental Defense Fund under the federal Freedom of Information Act and provided to The Associated Press. That request was made this past March to policy advisers with the Heartland Institute, one of the most vocal challengers of mainstream scientific findings that emissions from burning coal, oil and gas are damaging the Earth’s atmosphere.

In a March 3 email exchange Happer and Heartland adviser Hal Doiron discuss Happer’s scientific arguments in a paper attempting to knock down climate change as well as ideas to make the work “more useful to a wider readership.” Happer writes he had already discussed the work with another Heartland adviser, Thomas Wysmuller.

Academic experts denounced the administration official’s continued involvement with groups and scientists who reject what numerous federal agencies say is the fact of climate change.

“These people are endangering all of us by promoting anti-science in service of fossil fuel interests over the American interests,” said Pennsylvania State University climate scientist Michael Mann.

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Friday, June 14, 2019 8:01 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Will climate change kill everyone — or just lots and lots of people?

www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/6/13/18660548/climate-change-human-civ
ilization-existential-risk

The debate over whether climate change will end life on Earth, explained.

Many analyses of climate change — including the report Vice based its article on — treat the deaths of a billion people and the extinction of humanity as pretty similar outcomes, but climate change won’t kill us all, yet it’s one of the biggest challenges ahead of us and the results of our failure to act will be devastating.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

I'm also okay with a billion less people on the planet.

It's a good start, but we could do much better than that.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Some of that billion will be US citizens. You okay with that? A hundred million of the relatives of that billion will illegally enter the US to avoid joining the billion dead. You okay with that?

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, June 14, 2019 10:17 AM

It will be far more than a billion.

It will be 90+% of all species on earth, and we're definitely on the list.

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Friday, June 14, 2019 11:42 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

So I'm going to reiterate ... yes, it's frustrating that Trump is an idiot when it comes to climate shift, but on the other hand you can thank your lucky stars that Trump has preserved the ability of the next President ... whoever she or he is ... to take whatever action she or he feels is necessary above and beyond the Paris Accord (which BTW was a joke) by bowing out of the TTP and TTIP.

Democrats, for all of their blathering*, haven't slowed down greenhouse gas emissions one whit. (Just like Democrats and Republicans share a wealth gap curve that is indistinguishable.) The big driver of CO2 emissions are booms and busts. In reality, Trump isn't much different than his predecessors, Democratic and Republican. Climate shift isn't about what was or wasn't done in four or eight years, but what wasn't done in FORTY or EIGHTY years. So stop dumping on Trump, everyone deserves blame, and start working on creating a third party, or at least demanding more from your beloved political party than empty slogans and vaporware.

There is life after Trump, and we have the authority to do much better after him if we so choose. Demand more.

*Brought to you by SECONDRATE

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Friday, June 14, 2019 12:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Will climate change kill everyone — or just lots and lots of people?

www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/6/13/18660548/climate-change-human-civ
ilization-existential-risk

The debate over whether climate change will end life on Earth, explained.

Many analyses of climate change — including the report Vice based its article on — treat the deaths of a billion people and the extinction of humanity as pretty similar outcomes, but climate change won’t kill us all, yet it’s one of the biggest challenges ahead of us and the results of our failure to act will be devastating.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

I'm also okay with a billion less people on the planet.

It's a good start, but we could do much better than that.

Do Right, Be Right. :)
Some of that billion will be US citizens. You okay with that? A hundred million of the relatives of that billion will illegally enter the US to avoid joining the billion dead. You okay with that?

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

I'm surprised that with RF blathering all over this board that this rather benign phrasing of this question is the worst reply my post got.

I really don't care who it is, more than I have any power over who it is.

My first preference would be pure survival of the fittest.

Short of that, we could just Shirley Jackson Lottery it.

The only way that I wouldn't want it done is by inter-sectionalism quotas.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, June 15, 2019 7:08 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So I'm going to reiterate ... yes, it's frustrating that Trump is an idiot when it comes to climate shift, but on the other hand you can thank your lucky stars that Trump has preserved the ability of the next President ... whoever she or he is ... to take whatever action she or he feels is necessary above and beyond the Paris Accord (which BTW was a joke) by bowing out of the TTP and TTIP.

Trump did not preserve anything. The real road block to climate change legislation has existed continuously since the 96th Congress in 1979.

An example of the GOP stopping the Democrats dead in their tracks:

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell calls himself the "Grim Reaper," vowing to kill whichever bill that he labels as socialist legislation, including a bill that pushes for election security.
www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/06/14/mitch-mcconnell-grim-reaper-soc
ialist-agenda-serfaty-dnt-lead-vpx.cnn

When the GOP is the Senate majority, one man can stop anything a Democratic President might need on Climate change. But when the GOP is the minority, they can still stop anything.

If a majority of American voters wanted what Democratic Senators want, a change in laws cannot happen when there are at least 41 Republican Senators to filibuster the changes. If Trump and Pence die on Sunday, on Monday President Pelosi will still have Trump’s 51 Republican Senators refusing anything Pelosi needs to fight climate change. The number of Republican Senators will not drop below 41 simply because Trump is dead.

The last time Republican Senators dropped below 41 was the 95th Congress (1977-1979). Because Signym and 1kiki don’t understand how important the number 41 is for Republican control of the federal government, Signym or 1kiki will complain that new President Pelosi does no better than old Trump about climate change. But Pelosi cannot because the Federal government was designed to gridlock whenever a stubborn group of at least 41 Senators want it to gridlock. I guess it is impossible for Signym to understand that a huge failure can be caused by only 41 people voting for failure, all while the 41 deny that failure is their goal, that they are in the Senate to make the government fail.
www.senate.gov/history/partydiv.htm

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, June 15, 2019 7:59 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

So it's NOT Trump's fault! Glad you finally got in touch with at least one glimmer of reality.

And if democrats don't do anything different, how are they any better?
tic tac

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Saturday, June 15, 2019 9:53 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
So it's NOT Trump's fault! Glad you finally got in touch with at least one glimmer of reality.

And if democrats don't do anything different, how are they any better?
tic tac

Not Trump's fault? He's the guy who is promoting coal burning. He's the guy behind changing mileage rules on cars so that they burn more fuel. He is a Republican who will veto any bill to fight climate change, but as luck would have it, the Senate Republicans won't allow a vote for such a bill in the Senate. All Democratic bills die in the Senate. That is the way it has been since the 96th Congress in 1979.
https://insideclimatenews.org/news/06032019/trump-climate-regulations-
rollback-cost-health-emissions-clean-power-plan-cars-oil-gas-methane

Once Trump is out, the Republicans will filibuster all climate change bills. The government gridlocks whenever 41 stubborn Republican Senators want gridlock. It is in the rules. That has been the way since the 96th Congress in 1979, when the Republicans first had enough Senators to filibuster anything. They have been using those rules for 40 years, yet 1kiki never understood what the GOP has been doing. Maybe because the GOP Senators keep insisting they are not doing what they are doing? Maybe because 1kiki doesn't know the rules? Who knows with 1kiki? The rules are not a secret, 1kiki:
www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/common/briefing/Filibuster_Clotur
e.htm

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, June 15, 2019 11:37 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
The real road block to climate change legislation has existed continuously since the 96th Congress in 1979.

So, through part of Jimmy Carter's Presidency, and two terms of Bill Clinton, and two terms of Obama.

Just like I said: DECADES of inaction by both parties, one party's results indistinguishable from the other's in restrospect.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Saturday, June 15, 2019 3:53 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Why Obama’s clean energy legislation died in the Senate after passing the House.

The October 6, 2010 New Yorker has a “behind the curtain” dissection of the rise and fall of climate legislation in the Senate. It provides an interesting insider view of the always messy legislative process.

The reason Senate passage of climate legislation was impossible in 2010: unified and uncompromising GOP opposition in the Senate.

Republican lockstep opposition to the energy bill and other Democratic priorities is reflected in Senate floor voting patterns. Congressional Quarterly developed a “Party Unity” score based on the proportion of votes that “pitted a majority of one party against a majority of the other.” Such votes reflect that each party’s position was different, and a majority of the senators voted with their party.

Republican leaders in 2009 adopted a strategy of opposing President Obama on every major legislative effort to deny him victories that would enhance his popularity.

The 111th Congress also saw an increase in the proportion of Republican senators voting with their party majority. Eighty-five percent of Republicans voted with their party in 2009, while that increased to 90 percent in 2010.

Congressional Quarterly describes the increased Senate polarization in 2010:

Almost four out of five roll call votes in the Senate have pitted a majority of Democrats against a majority of Republicans—the highest percentage of so-called party-unity votes seen since Congressional Quarterly began tabulating them in 1953.

Most telling, however, is the support accorded President Obama on the 51 Senate roll calls this year… where he took a position. On average, Democrats supported him 95 percent of the time, up from 92 percent in 2009. And Republicans backed away from their 50 percent average presidential support score last year to vote with Obama just 42 percent of the time.

Opensecrets.org found that electric utilities and oil and gas companies spent more than $500 million in lobbying from January 2009 to June 2010, primarily to weaken or defeat energy legislation. A Center for American Progress Action Fund analysis found that oil companies were six of the top seven spenders on lobbying and campaign contributions during this period, with ExxonMobil number one.

Big Oil’s campaign contributions are heavily tilted toward Republicans.

www.americanprogress.org/issues/green/news/2010/10/12/8569/anatomy-of-
a-senate-climate-bill-death/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, June 15, 2019 5:43 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Why Obama’s clean energy legislation died in the Senate after passing the House.

Republican leaders in 2009 adopted a strategy ...

Still not Trump's fault.

And you know, if Obama had stumped for his goals the way FDR did, he might gotten a swell of public support the way FDR did, and routed the opposition in the midterms the way FDR did (instead suffering a massive loss at all levels), and gotten his goals through legislatively the way FDR did.

That btw is how you can tell if someone means what they say. Are they just blathering, or are they walking their talk?

But Obama didn't REALLY want to confront the multinationals. So he blathered and did as little as possible on global warming.

And then of course one wonders about Clinton, and the many decades of a democratic Congress. Were they infected with the multinational cancer as well?

And if democrats don't do anything different, how are they any better?
tic tac

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Sunday, June 16, 2019 6:18 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

And you know, if Obama had stumped for his goals the way FDR did, he might gotten a swell of public support the way FDR did, and routed the opposition in the midterms the way FDR did (instead suffering a massive loss at all levels), and gotten his goals through legislatively the way FDR did.

1kiki, you have history wrong. You give FDR far too much credit. Give credit to Herbert Hoover, who is remembered "as the man who was too rigidly conservative to react adeptly to the Depression, as the hapless foil to the great Franklin Roosevelt, and as the politician who managed to turn a Republican country into a Democratic one."
www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/10/23/hating-on-herbert-hoover

In 72nd Congress (1931-1933) the majority party in the Senate was Republican (48 seats) and the Minority Party was Democrat (47 seats). The GOP had more than the magic number of 41% of the seats in the Senate and the GOP could block any kind of sensible legislation to handle the Great Depression. In the next election, control flipped decidedly to Democrats. That was not FDR’s accomplishment.

FDR was a man in a wheelchair running against strong and healthy Herbert Hoover and the GOP’s failures. (FDR died at age 63, Hoover at 90) If more voters had been aware of FDR’s polio, he would have lost the election. In his second term President Hoover would be vetoing every bill coming from a Democratic controlled Senate. There would not have been enough Democrats in Congress to override Hoover’s vetoes. The Great Depression would have gotten worse and the Democrats would be blamed.

The 73rd Congress (1933-1935), which arrived in the same election as FDR, had a Majority Party of Democrats (59 seats) against Republicans (36 seats) in the Senate. The GOP is out of power, but the voters can only hope the Democrats will do something about the Great Depression. The Democrats can do, but only because the GOP can’t stop it, although it tries very hard. In the next election the Democrats have even more Senators. It is 69 Democrats versus 25 Republicans. For once, the Republicans are completely helpless to stop the Democrats from fixing the economy.

Ex-President Herbert Hoover spends the rest of his life hating Social Security and the New Deal, calling it a Communist plot. Ronald Reagan meets with Hoover many times and learns how beautiful capitalists are and how wrong and un-American the New Deal is, as are Unions, Medicare, Social Security, or anything passed into law by Democrats.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoover_Institution

The Republican party will handle climate change the same way it handled the Great Depression – America will have to endure problems until they go away as mysteriously as they arrived. Very little need be done about problems that will solve themselves if Capitalism is given enough time to work its magic without government interference. That didn’t work for the Great Depression. That won’t work for climate change.

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
But Obama didn't REALLY want to confront the multinationals. So he blathered and did as little as possible on global warming.

And then of course one wonders about Clinton, and the many decades of a democratic Congress. Were they infected with the multinational cancer as well?

1kiki, you still do not yet understand that Clinton or Obama could do nothing legislative about climate change because the Republicans had the seats in the Senate to filibuster. And what Obama could do by executive order, Trump immediately un-did by executive order. It is the Republican way. I assume you remember how the GOP mocked Vice-President and Presidential candidate Al Gore on climate change.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, June 16, 2019 12:23 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

So ...still not Trump's fault.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Sunday, June 16, 2019 2:33 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So ...still not Trump's fault.

1kiki, if you mean that any elected Republican in the Senate, House or White House will use their position to deny climate change, you are right. You are wrong if you mean none of them are at fault for what they do, since there are fifty million Republicans denying climate change and you feel it is only right to place all the fault on only a few nasty people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_executions

According to new analysis from the Center for American Progress Action Fund, there are 150 members of the 116th Congress — all Republicans — who do not believe in the scientific consensus that human activity is making the Earth’s climate change. Notably, since the previous Congress, the number of climate deniers has decreased by 30 members, in part because 47 former deniers retired, resigned, or were defeated in their 2018 re-election contests.
www.americanprogressaction.org/issues/green/news/2019/01/28/172944/cli
mate-deniers-116th-congress/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, June 16, 2019 3:25 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"The 73rd Congress (1933-1935), which arrived in the same election as FDR, had a Majority Party of Democrats (59 seats) against Republicans (36 seats) in the Senate. The GOP is out of power, but the voters can only hope the Democrats will do something about the Great Depression. The Democrats can do, but only because the GOP can’t stop it, although it tries very hard. In the next election the Democrats have even more Senators. It is 69 Democrats versus 25 Republicans. For once, the Republicans are completely helpless to stop the Democrats from fixing the economy."

That's a remarkably similar scenario to Obama - and Bush. Obama didn't run against McCain, he ran against Bush, and a rapidly collapsing economy. The 2008 election saw democrats in a slim majority in the senate with 2 caucusing independents, and a comfortable majority of 232 to 200 in the house. You seem to forget that democrats ran the country for the first 2 years of Obama's first term.

In his first 2 years, FDR has SIGNIFICANT opposition to his plans FROM HIS OWN PARTY. But instead of folding and backing down, he took his plans for radical action directly to the people.

Obama - not so much. Instead of publicly stumping for his plans - He weasled. He quietly backed off of his promises. He joined the other side surveilling citizens and carrying out covert and proxy wars.

Both faced opposition in their first 2 years. But they made radically different choices to counter that.

Because they made radically different choices in their first 2 years, their mid-terms went in radically different directions. FDR just about cleared Congress of Republicans. Obama created the biggest reversal for democrats ever, when you count congress, state legislators, and governorships.

The democrats have themselves to blame. In Obama they promised a populist. But they provided a deep-stater.

And if democrats don't do anything different, how are they any better?
tic tac

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Sunday, June 16, 2019 5:41 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

The democrats have themselves to blame.

And if democrats don't do anything different, how are they any better?

1kiki, you're full of shit. The President "going to the people" will NOT flip Republican states into states with Democratic Senators. The states which flipped in 1930's to Democrat did it because the Republicans had done a terrible job responding to the Great Depression. Those states would have flipped right back to Republican if, under FDR, the Senate Majority leader had remained a Republican like Mitch McConnell, a guy stymying all New Deal legislation. It would be "proof" to dimwitted voters that Democrats are no different than Republicans at handling the Great Depression. Dimwits never understood how the rules of the Senate have always given a minority such huge power to stop legislation. Dimwits always misunderstand what is happening and they never correct themselves.

On Thursday, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority leader Mitch McConnell finally found common ground. They both agreed that McConnell is the "Grim Reaper." They were both talking about McConnell killing climate change legislation.

To me, in political terms, McConnell is actually far worse than the Grim Reaper. The Grim Reaper only comes once in our lifetimes -- at the moment of death. In contrast, McConnell has been killing climate change legislation for years. Add to that, McConnell has now gone beyond killing bills to helping embolden Donald Trump's worst instincts about climate change.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, June 16, 2019 8:14 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Stop farting here. All you have is your gassy opinions which are based on hatred.

And if democrats don't do anything different, how are they any better?
tic tac

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Sunday, June 16, 2019 8:26 PM

Thanks for the cows.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, June 17, 2019 4:03 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Temperatures leap 40 degrees above normal as the Arctic Ocean and Greenland ice sheet see record June melting

And it may be messing with our weather.

June 14

Ice is melting in unprecedented ways as summer approaches in the Arctic. In recent days, observations have revealed a record-challenging melt event over the Greenland ice sheet, while the extent of ice over the Arctic Ocean has never been this low in mid-June during the age of weather satellites.

Greenland saw temperatures soar up to 40 degrees above normal Wednesday, while open water exists in places north of Alaska where it seldom, if ever, has in recent times.

It’s “another series of extreme events consistent with the long-term trend of a warming, changing Arctic,” said Zachary Labe, a climate researcher at the University of California at Irvine...

The extreme conditions in the Arctic, which have resulted in these record-challenging melt events, have far-reaching implications. There is a saying often repeated by Arctic researchers: “What happens in the Arctic doesn’t stay in the Arctic.”

The bulging zones of high pressure in the Arctic, which have facilitated the unusual warmth and intensified melting, are displacing the cold air normally contained in that region into the mid-latitudes — like a refrigerator door left open. Much of the central and eastern United States have seen lower-than-normal temperatures in the past week.

This is exactly what I posted about in the RAIN!!! thread. My layperson's opinion was that since cold (arctic) air has been intruding far south, into SoCal, that must mean that the cold air is being displaced by warm air in the arctic. Et viola!

Quote:
The jet stream, the high-altitude current separating cold air and warm air, has taken unusually erratic meanders.

Also discussed in previous posts

Quote:
“The jet stream this week was one of the craziest I’ve ever seen!” Jennifer Francis, one of the leading researchers who has published studies connecting Arctic change and mid-latitude weather, wrote in an email.

Francis had earlier suggested that conditions in the Arctic may have played a role in the extreme jet stream pattern that spurred the tornado swarm and record flooding in the central U.S. during the last two weeks of May.

“We can’t say that the rapid Arctic warming is causing this particularly pattern, but it certainly is consistent with that,” Francis, senior scientist at Woods Hole Research Center, said.

I think the "new normal" for the Arctic will be established in about seven years, which means that once the Arctic is warmed up we can no longer count on melting ice and Arctic air masses to cool us off and bring rainstorms.

Quote:

*****

Planet is entering ‘new climate regime’ with ‘extraordinary’ heat waves intensified by global warming, study says

‘It is horrid’: India roasts under heat wave with temperatures above 120 degrees

San Francisco soars to 100 degrees as record heat wave roasts California and the West Coast

https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2019/06/14/arctic-ocean-greenla
nd-ice-sheet-have-seen-record-june-ice-loss/?utm_source=pocket-newtab

Oh, and BTW? STILL not Trump's fault.

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Monday, June 17, 2019 6:41 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Oh, and BTW? STILL not Trump's fault.

President blames other countries for environmental crisis, in long talk with prince:
Prince Charles spent 75 minutes longer than scheduled trying to convince Donald Trump of the dangers of global heating, but the president still insisted the US was “clean” and blamed other nations for the crisis. Trump said he pushed back at the suggestion the US should do more.

More at www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/05/donald-trump-tells-prince-char
les-us-is-clean-on-climate-change

Trump Administration Hardens Its Attack on Climate Science:
President Trump has rolled back environmental regulations, pulled the United States out of the Paris climate accord, brushed aside dire predictions about the effects of climate change, and turned the term “global warming” into a punch line rather than a prognosis. Now, after two years spent unraveling the policies of his predecessors, Mr. Trump and his political appointees are launching a new assault.

More at www.nytimes.com/2019/05/27/us/politics/trump-climate-science.html

Signym, are you sure it is "STILL not Trump's fault"?

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, June 17, 2019 1:33 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
President blames other countries for environmental crisis, in long talk with prince... BULLSHITARTISTSECONDRATE

And guess what?? Despite what Trump SAYS, it's STILL not Trump's fault!

I see your error, SECONDRATE. You see to believe that talking, or posting, will change past events. They don't.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Monday, June 17, 2019 1:42 PM

Indian villages lie empty as drought forces thousands to flee
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/12/indian-villages-lie-empt
y-as-drought-forces-thousands-to-flee?fbclid=IwAR09LnfHnjwqYxzjXefuh79FRlra16t954DcZrlCcEPJjDbHnhzUciAzZog

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Monday, June 17, 2019 1:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
President blames other countries for environmental crisis, in long talk with prince... BULLSHITARTISTSECONDRATE
And guess what?? Despite what Trump SAYS, it's STILL not Trump's fault!

I see your error, SECONDRATE. You see to believe that talking, or posting, will change past events. They don't.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

Russian trolls need to be quick with the insults, and light on substance.

They'll gladly ignore facts that disprove their points.

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Monday, June 17, 2019 3:17 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Russian trolls need to be quick with the insults, and light on substance.

They'll gladly ignore facts that disprove their points.

The FACT, troll, is that while Trump isn't doing anything to reduce global climate shift, the multi decades-long accumulation of greenhouse gasses ISN'T Trump's fault. Getting rid of Trump won't solve the problem, but will only allow the possible beginning of effective federal action which BTW hadn't even started by the time Trump was elected.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Tuesday, June 18, 2019 2:18 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:
Temperatures leap 40 degrees above normal as the Arctic Ocean and Greenland ice sheet see record June melting

And it may be messing with our weather.

June 14

Ice is melting in unprecedented ways as summer approaches in the Arctic. In recent days, observations have revealed a record-challenging melt event over the Greenland ice sheet, while the extent of ice over the Arctic Ocean has never been this low in mid-June during the age of weather satellites.

Greenland saw temperatures soar up to 40 degrees above normal Wednesday, while open water exists in places north of Alaska where it seldom, if ever, has in recent times.

It’s “another series of extreme events consistent with the long-term trend of a warming, changing Arctic,” said Zachary Labe, a climate researcher at the University of California at Irvine...

The extreme conditions in the Arctic, which have resulted in these record-challenging melt events, have far-reaching implications. There is a saying often repeated by Arctic researchers: “What happens in the Arctic doesn’t stay in the Arctic.”

The bulging zones of high pressure in the Arctic, which have facilitated the unusual warmth and intensified melting, are displacing the cold air normally contained in that region into the mid-latitudes — like a refrigerator door left open. Much of the central and eastern United States have seen lower-than-normal temperatures in the past week.

“The jet stream this week was one of the craziest I’ve ever seen!” Jennifer Francis, one of the leading researchers who has published studies connecting Arctic change and mid-latitude weather, wrote in an email.

Francis had earlier suggested that conditions in the Arctic may have played a role in the extreme jet stream pattern that spurred the tornado swarm and record flooding in the central U.S. during the last two weeks of May.

“We can’t say that the rapid Arctic warming is causing this particularly pattern, but it certainly is consistent with that,” Francis, senior scientist at Woods Hole Research Center, said.

*****

Planet is entering ‘new climate regime’ with ‘extraordinary’ heat waves intensified by global warming, study says

‘It is horrid’: India roasts under heat wave with temperatures above 120 degrees

San Francisco soars to 100 degrees as record heat wave roasts California and the West Coast

https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2019/06/14/arctic-ocean-greenla
nd-ice-sheet-have-seen-record-june-ice-loss/?utm_source=pocket-newtab

We're on the tracks and the freight train is closing fast.

Bur don't worry. Democrats think that when they impeach Trump, President Pence will rescue us.

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Tuesday, June 18, 2019 4:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

We're on the tracks and the freight train is closing fast.

Bur don't worry. Democrats think that when they impeach Trump, President Pence will rescue us.

That is the funniest thing about all of this. Nobody knows anything about Pence. All I knew about him was that he was governor of Indiana after Mitch Daniels, and that's still all I know about him.

But why wouldn't Democrats in 2019 want him to take over? They've already professed their adoration and respect for John McCain, they spent a year and a half praising Mueller who previously lied to us about WMD's in Iraq, they've become staunch defenders of alphabet agencies such as the FBI and IRS, and they look back fondly on the "good old days" of the GWB administration.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, June 18, 2019 8:47 AM

It's real easy to learn about Pence. Try google.

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Tuesday, June 18, 2019 8:49 AM

How the U.S. Government Is Aggressively Censoring Climate Science
By keeping the public in the dark, federal agencies create an environment where inaction is justified.
https://www.audubon.org/magazine/summer-2018/how-us-government-aggress
ively-censoring-climate

“When you look at the tracker you see that the Trump administration has really undertaken a systematic attempt to silence science that doesn’t support its policies,” Webb says—namely, fossil fuel expansion. Websites focused on climate change have been deleted or rewritten. The word “climate” has been erased from program titles. Climate scientists have been prohibited from attending conferences or otherwise speaking publicly about their work. And scientific advisory boards have been disbanded. So far, Webb has documented evidence of censorship at the White House, NASA, the National Science Foundation, and nine federal agencies, including the Environmental Protection Agency.

In some cases, the purge appears to have been ordered by senior leadership; in others, scientists censor themselves to avoid attention or consequences. “The chilling effect that this administration has on the federal agencies—my clients, I’ve never seen them so afraid,” says Kyla Bennett, who represents government whistleblowers for Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility, a legal nonprofit.

To Bennett, the motive is clear: “The more you remove [climate change] from public documents and the public eye, the less inclination there is for people to worry about it and want to do something about it.” Pretending the problem doesn’t exist also permits agencies to ignore it in policymaking. For example, in the months before the EPA announced its repeal of the Obama administration’s central carbon pollution-reduction policy in October 2017, references to climate change were wiped from many of its websites and climate scientists were reassigned to new departments. “In the absence of climate change, you don’t need something like the Clean Power Plan,” Bennett says.

So much for the idea that it's not Trump's fault.

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Tuesday, June 18, 2019 8:56 AM

WHY CLIMATE EXPERTS ARE WORRIED ABOUT TRUMP'S NEW PANEL ON CLIMATE CHANGE AND NATIONAL SECURITY
Multiple proposed panelists have publicly expressed their skepticism of human-caused climate change.
https://psmag.com/environment/trumps-new-panel-on-climate-change-and-n
ational-security

The Trump administration has quietly begun to assemble a panel to review connections between climate change and national security.

Former United States Ambassador C. Paul Robinson may be leading the review panel, two sources who are involved in the talks told E&E News. Robinson has been a key player in policy discussions about nuclear weapons and national security, but has no previous experience discussing climate science, climate change, or climate policy. Others slated for the panel include scientists with contrarian views on climate change and people with ties to the fossil fuel industry.

The Trump administration introduced its plan for the panel earlier this year. It's a modified version of an earlier plan created by William Happer that would have established a federal advisory panel to challenge the notion that climate change threatens national security.

Here's what you need to know about President Donald Trump's newest panel.

THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION'S HISTORY WITH PANELS (AND CLIMATE SCIENCE)
"[The] Trump administration has made it a top priority to attack climate science at every turn," says Kassie Siegel, director of the Climate Law Institute at the Center for Biological Diversity. In 2017, Trump disbanded a federal climate panel tasked with evaluating the National Climate Assessment, and, in 2018, he created a wildlife protection panel mostly composed of trophy hunters and politically connected donors to hunting groups. In addition, the Trump administration has rewritten the mission statements of various government agencies, such as the Department of the Interior, and has promoted the deregulation of fossil fuels through the Environmental Protection Agency.

"There have been a lot of major concerns about censorship or risk of censorship of climate science. That's something that is fairly scary to a lot of scientists right now," says William Anderegg, assistant professor in the Department of Biology at the University of Utah, who completed a National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration Climate & Global Change Postdoctoral Fellowship at Princeton University.

There is a clear scientific consensus regarding climate change. A 2016 study published in the peer-reviewed journal Environmental Research Letters found that 90 to 100 percent of actively publishing climate scientists agree: Climate change is happening, and it is caused by humans. (This affirmed a previous, widely cited study that found that number to be 97 percent, a figure that NASA also cites.)

"Broadly, the system seems to be continuing on and communicating the risks of climate change," Anderegg says. "But there are some major worrying signs, and this new proposed panel is a good example of that."

WHO WILL BE ON THE PANEL?
In the panel's selection process, people with contrarian views on climate change—many with ties to the fossil fuel industry—have been disproportionately prioritized. (The Trump administration has continuously backed individuals with strong ties to the oil industry.)

A Greenpeace investigation revealed that Happer, the physicist and National Security Council senior director who created the original plan for the panel (and was set to lead it), had previously expressed willingness to produce research on the benefits of carbon dioxide—on behalf of fossil fuel companies—at a rate of $250 an hour.

One person currently slated for the new panel is Richard Lindzen, a retired Massachusetts Institute of Technology professor who has been publicly skeptical of climate change science and has labeled belief in global warming a cult. He has also received money from Peabody Energy, the world's biggest private-sector publicly traded coal company, to publish articles casting doubt on climate science.

Another possible member is John Christy, a professor of atmospheric science at the University of Alabama–Huntsville, and new member of the EPA's Science Advisory Board. Christy has a highly scrutinized academic background and ties to various fossil fuel industry-funded conservative think tanks, including the Cato Institute and the Heartland Institute.

Some of those selected, including Judith Curry, do have a background and expertise in climate science. While Curry agrees with the 97 percent of climate scientists who believe climate change is caused by humans, her skepticism of the extent of humanity's contribution to climate change has caused controversy in the scientific community.

HOW IMPORTANT IS EXPERTISE IN CLIMATE SCIENCE SPECIFICALLY?
Very important, according to climate science experts.

"You have to look at the credibility and the expertise of the people who are being tapped, and having expertise in climate science in particular is incredibly important," Anderegg says. "We don't ask geologists to review the state of cancer biology."

Stephen Zehr, a professor of sociology at the University of Southern Indiana whose research focuses on the representation of scientific expertise in environmental controversies, agrees: A panel like this, he says, needs climate scientists specifically, but also a range of natural and social scientists, as well as environmental journalists who can effectively communicate the panel's ideas and conclusions to the public.

"Many of the [proposed panelists] don't have the kind of background on climate change science to successfully present themselves as as experts, unless we're going back to the old debate about whether climate change is really occurring or not," Zehr says. "And I think we've gone well beyond that."

Panels like this need a "good balance of expertise," Zehr says, "and that balance isn't balance between individuals who believe climate change is occurring and those who doubt [the science]."

The heads of NASA and NOAA told E&E News that they have not been involved in the climate review panel thus far.

TRUMP'S CLIMATE PLAYBOOK
Both Siegel and Anderegg point to the book (and documentary) Merchants of Doubt, written by Erik M. Conway and Naomi Oreskes. The book explores how a small group of scientists, supported by powerful industries such as the fossil fuel industry as well as extensive political connections, have intentionally obscured pressing issues like acid rain and global warming.

"Everything from the Trump administration playbook comes straight from the fossil fuel industry polluter playbook," Siegel says. "The fact that some of these people have a Ph.D. just doesn't change the fact that they are mouthpieces for polluters."

In spite of the Trump administration's efforts to denounce climate science, polls suggest that voters are increasingly concerned about climate change. A 2018 Politico/Morning Consult poll found that two-thirds of Americans are very or somewhat concerned about the National Climate Assessment's newest report, and that 58 percent agree with the scientific consensus that climate change is caused by human activity.

WHAT WILL THE IMPACTS OF TRUMP'S NEWEST PANEL BE?
Military analysts are increasingly concerned about the security risks of climate change. A Department of Defense official recently wrote to lawmakers that the natural disasters that are being worsened by a changing climate (such as drought, wildfires, recurrent floods, and desertification) will increasingly pose a threat to military bases around the country, according to E&E News. In recent congressional hearings, military analysts have also warned of specific climate-induced risks, such as Russia moving weapons into a thawing Arctic and increased Middle Eastern conflicts as a result of drought.

It seems unlikely that the new panel will drastically change the opinions of national security experts, who have been in agreement regarding the risks of climate change for decades.

But will it impact public opinion and policy?

According to Zehr, public opinion isn't likely to dramatically shift either. He explains that Trump's rhetoric will likely be discounted by the majority of Americans who already believe in the climate science—but, he warns, "I've been studying this issue since the early 1980s, and I've been surprised many times over the years." He also notes that the panel will likely reinforce the opinions of those who don't believe in climate change, or at least don't believe it is caused by humans.

Anderegg worries that the climate panel could influence politicians and the media, which, in turn, would affect voters and the public discourse around climate change more broadly.

Even if public opinion isn't swayed by Trump's newest panel, experts agree there are still serious risks, especially when it comes to creating substantive policy to adapt to or mitigate rapidly changing environmental conditions. "The whole purpose is to create confusion and to slow progress on climate change. We shouldn't underestimate the damage it can do," Siegel says.

"We have a fairly small and closing window to really stave off the worst of climate change," Anderegg says, "and this is basically fiddling while Rome burns."

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Tuesday, June 18, 2019 9:07 AM

Scientist who resisted censorship of climate report lost her job
https://www.revealnews.org/blog/scientist-who-resisted-censorship-of-c
limate-report-lost-her-job/

Caffrey’s career boom and bust exemplifies the difficult situation many scientists face as President Donald Trump’s administration tries to suppress research on topics that he doesn’t consider a priority. Columbia Law School’s Sabin Center for Climate Change Law has reported 194 examples of the federal government censoring, hindering or sidelining climate change science since Trump was elected.

All federal scientists are vulnerable, but scientists like Caffrey who work under federal contracts face particular risk because they can be fired easily and their funding can be pulled, said Jeff Ruch, executive director of Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility, which represents federal and state scientists in complaints against agencies.

In a January episode of Reveal, Caffrey spoke about the pressure she experienced during the editing of the parks report. She said supervisors at the park service yelled at her and threatened to kill the report or remove her name if she would not agree to the changes. Some told her they could lose their jobs or be transferred if she didn’t capitulate.

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Tuesday, June 18, 2019 9:24 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

I'm curious why you're so willing to impeach Trump with Pence waiting in the wings. You seem to have some magical thinking on that. Because Impeachment isn't going to save us. Pence isn't going to save us. And unless the democrats decide to be anything other than gibbering mouths, they aren't going to save us, either.

You need to be pushing the democratic party to do something other than hold a fig leaf of words over their naked inaction.

And if democrats don't do anything different, how are they any better?
tic tac

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Tuesday, June 18, 2019 10:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

We're on the tracks and the freight train is closing fast.

Bur don't worry. Democrats think that when they impeach Trump, President Pence will rescue us.

Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:
It's real easy to learn about Pence. Try google.

Well... that's quite an obtuse reply.

You do realize that if Trump is impeached and that results in somehow successfully removing him from office that Mike Pence will be our president, don't you?

If you didn't know that before, you do now.

So...

Why don't you tell me about Pence.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, June 18, 2019 11:50 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:

So I'm going to reiterate ... yes, it's frustrating that Trump is an idiot when it comes to climate shift, but on the other hand you can thank your lucky stars that Trump has preserved the ability of the next President ... whoever she or he is ... to take whatever action she or he feels is necessary above and beyond the Paris Accord (which BTW was a joke) by bowing out of the TTP and TTIP. - SIGNY

Trump did not preserve anything. blah blah blah ... SECONDRATE

By bowing out of TTP and TTIP, Trump freed potential USA action at ALL levels of government on climate shift (and GMOs, pesticides, food and drug safty etc) from being held hostage to "usual and customary profits" in trade tribunals. This has been discussed ad nauseum, even by people like Elizabeth Warren https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/kill-the-dispute-settlement-la
nguage-in-the-trans-pacific-partnership/2015/02/25/ec7705a2-bd1e-11e4-b274-e5209a3bc9a9_story.html and only an idiot like you would fail to see its significance. Now that we are free to do better, let's figure out what the REAL barriers are besides Trump; Trump is not "the" cause of the problem therefore getting rid of him as President might be "necessary but not sufficient" to solving it.

So, what are the real barriers to getting on the right track with climate shift?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Tuesday, June 18, 2019 12:08 PM

EPA will allow use of pesticide harmful to bees
https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/448970-epa-will-allow-us
e-of-pesticide-harmful-to-bees

The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) said Monday it will allow states to use a pesticide that is harmful to bees.

The agency made an emergency exception for 11 states to use sulfoxafloron cotton and sorghum crops.

“The only emergency here is the Trump EPA’s reckless approval of this dangerous bee-killing pesticide,” Lori Ann Burd, environmental health director at the Center for Biological Diversity, said in a statement. “It’s sickening that even amid the current insect apocalypse, the EPA’s priority is protecting pesticide industry profits.”

A study published in Nature last year found sulfoxaflor inhibited bumblebee reproduction.

According to the Center for Biological Diversity, the emergency declaration has been used for four consecutive years in most of the states.

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Tuesday, June 18, 2019 1:52 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

REAVERBOT, it's not just the pesticide industry's profits that are being protected, it's farmers' (including corporate farms). Unless you've farmed - or at least gardened intensively- you wouldn't know that growing produce is a never-ending fight against pests of all kinds ... weeds, bugs, fungus, bacteria and viruses.

Our steady adavance towards Armageddon is propelled by profit. Money from those profits hold politicians hostage, that means most Democrats and most Republicans ... and btw most politicians around the world.

And you can't get people to engage in the problem because they're entranced by profit-motivated media.

Suggestions???

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Tuesday, June 18, 2019 7:42 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Just fwiw - years ago I concluded that 'we' wouldn't halt global warming. Sure the EU has already banned single-use plastics in a nod to protecting the environment, and Canada recently followed suit. And portions of the EU have vastly improved their carbon footprint over the last decade.

So it's not like 'people' are incapable of understanding that they're running to the edge of a cliff. Because some 'people' do, and some governments listen to their 'people'. This is not about 'people'.

But I thought that, globally, to even try to correct this problem with action to be taken RIGHT NOW, at the least the US would have to shutter its military with its energy-hog footprint (not to mention the military-industrial complex), and cripple the US petroleum, gas, and coal industries. And who did that? And who's going to do that? Not Bush. Not Clinton. Not Bush. Not Obama. Not Trump. And also not Bernie. Not Elizabeth. Not Joe. Not Nancy. Not a single democrat was, is, or will be, up to the challenge.

So I figured we wouldn't, because it hurts the corporations too much, and our politicians are hostage to the corporations.

But I kind of hoped we could, if we did eventually put our minds to it.

Knowing that the Arctic was 40F above normal pretty much put that idea in its grave. It used to be a train coming down the tracks, that we could have stopped. No longer. It's a runaway train.

So, to you folk younger than me, I have some advice: eat drink and be merry. And always have an exit plan.

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Tuesday, June 18, 2019 7:53 PM

Meh...

We'll be fine. Or we won't.

I'm pretty sure that we're not the first civilization to destroy themselves before being able to travel space and colonize other planets and we won't be the last. In fact, it's been theorized that the chances that there would even be a species so advanced that they were able to travel to earth and be among us now is so small as to not even be worth really putting much thought into for this very reason.

And really, that's probably not a bad thing if we don't. If that's a test the universe gave us, we fail with flying colors. Collectively as a species, we haven't learned a single thing. Anybody who would argue that humans colonizing other planets would be a good thing for the new planets, and the wildlife, atmosphere and any potential sentient races living there, is absolutely insane.

The rich and the powerful would be the ones running that show, and they would run everything right into the ground just like they're doing here. Meanwhile, the whole of our race would keep on breeding like rabbits and spreading like a cancer through the universe.

I don't mean to be all Debby Downer here. Just saying it like it is.

In the mean time, I'm not going to lose a single second of sleep over it. If the world really is going to end soon, there's not a goddamned thing I can do about it. If it's not, well, I got enough shit to worry about and enough good things left in my life to keep me going.

I suggest you all take the same approach to this before it drives you crazy.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, June 18, 2019 7:57 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Don't forget the exit plan.

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Wednesday, June 19, 2019 8:45 AM

Well... I doubt any of us are ever getting off of this rock.

The afterlife is always an exit plan. Whether it's pearly gates in the clouds or The Nothing from the Neverending Story, makes no matter to me.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, June 19, 2019 9:43 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Well... I doubt any of us are ever getting off of this rock.

The afterlife is always an exit plan. Whether it's pearly gates in the clouds or The Nothing from the Neverending Story, makes no matter to me.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

If you were a Buddhist from the Firefly 'Verse you'd believe in reincarnation into the mess you left behind in your previous life. A Buddhist knows he has to pay for what he did, if not in this life then in the next. On the other hand, the Christians and Atheists can't or won't think about paying because they are only passing through life one time, and nothing will force them to care what disasters they caused and leave behind. Christians and atheists act the way they do because: Christians are given a free pass by God to be irresponsible about anything but getting into heaven and atheists believe they can dodge ultimate responsibility by dying. Death is the atheist's free pass. Buddhism doesn't give out free passes.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, June 19, 2019 10:24 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
REAVERBOT, it's not just the pesticide industry's profits that are being protected, it's farmers' (including corporate farms). Unless you've farmed - or at least gardened intensively- you wouldn't know that growing produce is a never-ending fight against pests of all kinds ... weeds, bugs, fungus, bacteria and viruses.

Our steady adavance towards Armageddon is propelled by profit. Money from those profits hold politicians hostage, that means most Democrats and most Republicans ... and btw most politicians around the world.

And you can't get people to engage in the problem because they're entranced by profit-motivated media.

Suggestions???

So ... suggestions? Do you have a proposed solution for this madness, besides endlessly being a troll on a tiny part of the internet (Which btw isn't a solution for anything.) ?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Wednesday, June 19, 2019 7:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Well... I doubt any of us are ever getting off of this rock.

The afterlife is always an exit plan. Whether it's pearly gates in the clouds or The Nothing from the Neverending Story, makes no matter to me.

Do Right, Be Right. :)
If you were a Buddhist from the Firefly 'Verse you'd believe in reincarnation into the mess you left behind in your previous life. A Buddhist knows he has to pay for what he did, if not in this life then in the next. On the other hand, the Christians and Atheists can't or won't think about paying because they are only passing through life one time, and nothing will force them to care what disasters they caused and leave behind. Christians and atheists act the way they do because: Christians are given a free pass by God to be irresponsible about anything but getting into heaven and atheists believe they can dodge ultimate responsibility by dying. Death is the atheist's free pass. Buddhism doesn't give out free passes.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

I was just illustrating two extremes.

I guess I could have said the following...

The afterlife is always an exit plan. Whether it's 72 virgins or living another life in a Fallout bunker as a Radroach, makes no matter to me.

I recycle. I don't use A/C. I drive very little. I don't buy a ton of shit I don't need. I don't have any kids that cause my carbon footprint to grow exponentially.

It's you rich folk that have the power to change things but fail to do so everyday. Go talk to your friends about it instead of gloating everyday about your huge tax cuts to people who will never make in their entire life what you gained last year from Trump's tax cuts.

My conscious is clean.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, June 19, 2019 8:54 PM

CO2 on the brain and the brain on CO2
https://www.advancedsciencenews.com/co2-on-the-brain-and-the-brain-on-
co2/

I came across this information in a 2012 public health study from Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory investigation [1] and a more recent 2015 public health study published by the Harvard T. H. Chan School of Public Health [2]. These two independent studies concur that statistically significant and meaningful reductions in decision-making performance, which could significantly affect productivity, learning and safety, are observable with increases in CO2 levels from 600 to 1000 to 2500 ppm. While these levels seem high in comparison to the 405 ppm CO2 currently recorded in our atmosphere, they are commonplace in poorly ventilated spaces of the kind mentioned above, where we spend large proportions of our time.

By inspecting results displayed in Figure 1, for nine double blind tests, for the dependence of cognitive function on the concentration of CO2, one is amazed to discover that average cognitive scores of typical participants, decreased by 21% with respect to 400 ppm increases in CO2 levels [2].

The adverse effects of high levels of CO2 are, of course, well-documented in for example, space travel, scuba-diving and submarines, aeroplanes and fire-fighting situations. However, the impact of greenhouse gas emissions on human health from living, working, playing and traveling in tightly sealed environments, is a disquieting surprise to many of us already worrying about the negative effects of greenhouse gas on our climate. While it is a truism that throughout our lives we make and exhale CO2 it is now apparent that we were not created to live in an atmosphere with increasingly high levels of CO2.

The point here, if you missed it, is that people won't be able to think straight.

We are going extinct. It's already started, and it can't be stopped.

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Wednesday, June 19, 2019 9:02 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Wow, that's a stretch even for you. Now you're just disaster-mongering.

There's no way in hell our thinking would be clouded by impossible levels of CO2. If the CO2 ever got that high we'd be dead long before of something else

So, have any suggestions on how to fix the problem?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Wednesday, June 19, 2019 10:33 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Well, it's a stupid scenario in this thread, and seriously off-topic, but RF posted something of interest to me. Since someone in the family had COPD and was adapted to high CO2 blood levels, I was wondering at what point do people become addled from 'CO2 narcosis' - or indeed if there is such a thing.

Not surprisingly, the Navy's done studies on that, because while one can generate oxygen pretty easily in subs, scrubbing CO2 out is far more difficult - and bulky, noisy, expensive, and complicated.

But the studies were all over the map. Some indicated narcosis at fairly low CO2 breathing-air levels, while others showed no or few effects under extraordinarily high levels.

As the final decision about what the Navy aims for in subs is probably classified, I'll probably also never know what the final study results were. But CO2 narcosis isn't a clear-cut topic you can research on the internet.

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Thursday, June 20, 2019 7:40 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

It's you rich folk that have the power to change things but fail to do so everyday. Go talk to your friends about it instead of gloating everyday about your huge tax cuts to people who will never make in their entire life what you gained last year from Trump's tax cuts.

My conscious is clean.

If your conscience is clear, it's because you pressed the reset button on your memory. You voted for Trump. Trump campaigned on burning the maximum possible amount of coal. Only yesterday the EPA finalized Trump’s coal-friendly climate plan. If you remember that and your conscience still remains clear, your conscience is broke. Fix it. Or you could vote again for Trump because none of the Democrats will compliment you on how good, wise, hardworking, and clever you are like Trump will.

www.engadget.com/2019/06/19/epa-trump-administration-coal-climate-plan/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, June 20, 2019 7:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

It's you rich folk that have the power to change things but fail to do so everyday. Go talk to your friends about it instead of gloating everyday about your huge tax cuts to people who will never make in their entire life what you gained last year from Trump's tax cuts.

My conscious is clean.
If your conscience is clear, it's because you pressed the reset button on your memory. You voted for Trump. Trump campaigned on burning the maximum possible amount of coal. Only yesterday the EPA finalized Trump’s coal-friendly climate plan. If you remember that and your conscience still remains clear, your conscience is broke. Fix it. Or you could vote again for Trump because none of the Democrats will compliment you on how good, wise, hardworking, and clever you are like Trump will.

The only reply this post deserves is a question.

Did you fix the environment when you voted twice for Obama?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, June 23, 2019 9:12 AM

‘Die-in’ to sound alarm on human extinction
https://www.communitynews.com.au/guardian-express/news/die-in-to-sound
-alarm-on-human-extinction/

Get ready for the final physics lesson on one of the most powerful forces in the universe - INERTIA.

The emotion-apes must act out their feelings with their grand gestures.

They venerate their emotions and pretend they are choosing them. No. They are driven by their primitive limbic system & the neocortex, when not employed for reward seeking, is mostly used to conjure up clever sounding rationalizations and spin tales of hopium so they can get out of bed every morning and thus and reduce more gradients.

Tales of hopium are almost exclusively about how humans alone will manage to not be destroyed by their own waste stream while millions of other species go extinct from said waste stream. Two varieties of hopium tales, the "techno fix" & "global awakening" (Extinction Rebellion & such). The less imaginative, cognitively challenged apes, such as Jack, opt for flat out denial.

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Sunday, June 23, 2019 11:31 AM