' The truth - We will go extinct, very soon.' by reaverfan

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

https://www.space.com/amazon-rainforest-fires-2019-nasa-satellite-view
s.html

NASA Satellites Confirm Amazon Rainforest Is Burning at a Record Rate

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Tuesday, August 27, 2019 10:05 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr

Horrible.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com .

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Sunday, September 1, 2019 1:19 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/28/science/northern-white-rhino-eggs-f
ertilized.html?

Scientists Fertilize Eggs From the Last Two Northern White Rhinos

A mother and daughter are the only two northern white rhinoceroses left in the world. Their eggs were fertilized using sperm from males who have died.

?
When the last male white northern rhino died last year, his daughter and granddaughter, Najin and Fatu, were the only two of their kind left.CreditTony Karumba/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images

With a handful of oocytes and a collection of frozen sperm, an international team of scientists is racing against the clock to ensure that the only two northern white rhinoceroses left on the planet — both females — are not the last of their kind.

On Sunday, scientists in Italy were able to fertilize seven of the 10 oocytes, or eggs, that had been extracted from the two rhinos last week. They used sperm that had been collected from male rhinos before they died.

That outcome was better than expected, said Cesare Galli, the managing director of Avantea, the laboratory in Italy. But it is only one more step in a conservation effort that has spanned continents and lasted for years.

Dr. Galli was working with scientists, veterinarians and conservationists from the Leibniz Institute for Zoo and Wildlife Research in Germany, the Dvur Kralove Zoo in the Czech Republic, and the Ol Pejeta Conservancy in Kenya.

“We were really able to do something no one before has been able to do,” said Jan Stejskal, the director of international projects at the Dvur Kralove Zoo. “We still don’t know whether we’ll have embryos, but it was successful anyway. We proved that there is a real chance for them to have offspring.”

Not everyone considers this a worthwhile effort; critics question whether resurrecting an animal that is functionally extinct could draw attention away from other endangered species.

Northern white rhinos, a subspecies of the more populous southern white rhinos, once roamed wild in the grasslands of east and central Africa. They have hairier ears and smaller bodies than their relatives, and some researchers have argued that the northern white rhino should be considered a separate species.

Human efforts to save endangered animals (often made necessary by manmade threats like environmental degradation and poaching) are usually a race against time. But in the case of the northern white rhino, the race is especially urgent.

An animal can be considered critically endangered if there are dozens or hundreds of them left. But in this case, the only survivors are Najin and Fatu, a mother and daughter. And scientists discovered in 2014 that even artificial insemination using frozen sperm was unlikely to be an option for them, since neither seemed physically capable of carrying an embryo to term.

Any hope of natural mating vanished entirely last year, when the only male northern white rhinoceros died.

That rhino, called Sudan, had spent most of his life in the Dvur Kralove Zoo in the Czech Republic. He had been captured from the wild in 1975, which might have saved him. In 1960, there were about 2,000 northern white rhinos in Africa. But the population has since been decimated, in large part by habitat loss and poaching.

Sudan moved to the conservatory in Kenya in 2009 and died at the old age of 45 in March 2018, leaving the two females — his daughter, Najin, and his granddaughter, Fatu — alone at the Ol Pejeta Conservancy in Kenya’s Laikipia County.

“When he died, it was a sad moment for all of us,” said Stephen Ngulu, the veterinarian in charge at the conservancy. “We knew that we had some sperm that had been collected from him and several other males. So we knew that the only hope for the species was to get the eggs from the female.”

In order to extract the eggs from the two rhinos — using a probe guided by ultrasound — the animals had to be put under general anesthesia. That procedure is never risk free, so the scientists and veterinarians involved knew they had to be exceedingly cautious.

Dr. Frank Göritz, the head veterinarian at the Leibniz Institute in Germany, was in charge of administering the anesthesia during the operation, which was also overseen by David Ndeereh of the Kenya Wildlife Service and Thomas Hildebrandt of the Leibniz Institute.

“It was a big day for us,” Dr. Göritz said. “It was quite successful.” He and Dr. Ngulu said the rhinos recovered nicely from the anesthesia.

Then the eggs — five from Najin and five from Fatu — were sent to Italy to be fertilized by sperm that had been collected years earlier from two males named Suni and Saút.

Dr. Göritz said it would be ideal to see a northern white rhino born within a few years, so that it could coexist with the two females and learn their behavior. But that will require a surrogate pregnancy.

The southern white rhino might be a good candidate for that. Last month, a southern white rhino calf was born at the San Diego Zoo Safari Park using hormone-induced ovulation and artificial insemination with frozen semen, San Diego Zoo Global announced. The more those techniques are perfected, the more feasible it becomes that one of these rhinoceroses could eventually carry a northern white rhino to term.

But that is still many steps ahead. Dr. Galli, of Avantea, said it was unclear how many of the eggs fertilized this week would become blastocysts, the next step in embryonic development. That should become clear sometime next week — and even then, perfecting a technique for transplanting an embryo into a surrogate could take years, and gestation can last for 16 months or more.

But even if every egg fails, there will most likely be opportunities to extract more, Dr. Galli said, adding that egg fertilization alone was a big step forward in terms of scientific achievement.

Dr. Göritz agreed. “It’s not only about saving the northern white rhino,” he said. “We gained so much knowledge, and we used technology that we can now apply way earlier for other endangered species before they reach this situation.”

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Sunday, September 1, 2019 2:29 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

We are a wasteful species, burning thru our resources with no more forethought than bacteria in a petri dish. We can do better.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Sunday, September 1, 2019 2:41 PM

THG

Nuts, I don't want to go extinct.

T

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Thursday, September 5, 2019 12:55 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Yanno it's kind of funny, I was just thinking back to the environmental movement of MY day ... starting with Silent Spring by Rachel Carson. My work at the very first recycling center at our end of the state when I was in HS.

In the year 2525 and Mercy mercy me songs. It was quite the thing - many organizations formed, millions of young people committed and politically active in the movement.

What was accomplished?

Looking at the record ... well, not "nothing" but certainly not enough to reverse our self-destructive course.

All of the development and most of decisions have been driven by MONEY: by the wealthy and powerful elite. They even managed to shut down the whole concept of caring for the environment as a credible goal thru control of the media.

Until we manage to take decision-making out of the hands of the oligarchs, we'll be stuck in an endless loop of fecklessness.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Saturday, September 7, 2019 10:30 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:

According to a new report from the Friends of the Earth U.S.; Amazon Watch; and Profundo, Larry Fink's BlackRock Inc is one of the top investors in companies "responsible for tropical forest destruction in the Amazon and around the world."

The report called BlackRock's Big Deforestation Problem, published on Amazon Watch's website, claims BlackRock is the top three shareholders in 25 of the world's biggest publicly traded deforestation-risk companies; these companies are known for producing soya, beef, palm oil, pulp and paper, rubber and timber, but also have a long track record in burning down forests to clear land for agriculture purposes. The New York-based investment bank is also a top ten shareholder in another 50 of the world's top deforestation-risk companies, the report added.

"The data is clear: from the Amazon to the great forests of Africa and Southeast Asia, BlackRock is a global leader in financing forest destruction," said Jeff Conant, senior international forest program manager with Friends of the Earth U.S., the report's lead author.

"As long as this financial behemoth continues to unconditionally back the world's most destructive agribusiness companies, the forests of the world, and consequently the climate and the rights of forest-dwelling people, will continue to go up in flames. BlackRock is literally reaping profits as the world's jungles burn."

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-09-06/amazon-chaos-blackrock-liter
ally-reaping-profits-worlds-jungles-burn

Amd since the institutions which have the most money ... indeed, have license to CREATE money via the mechanism of partial reserve lending ... are the banks, maybe we should start by looking at the banks to see what they're investing in/lending for.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Saturday, September 7, 2019 10:42 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I think, on reflection, the answer isn't to get people fired up. I've been thru that already, and while much was achieved because of the mass movement - organizations were formed, people were mobilized, regulatory agencies were created, laws were passed - over time, the push to care for the environment was stalled or blunted or co-opted by corporations: The boards of the biggest environmental organizations and foundations themselves are packed with the wealthy. The agendas of some of the best-known organizations like Greenpeace has become tainted with politics. The corporations are more-than-adequately represented in the rule-making process, enforcement is stalled by lack of money, and there is a serious revolving door at the highest levels of government (altho in my experience mid-level and lower grunts are dedicated professionals seeking to do their best work.)

It's not about writing draconian rules on what kinds of foods people can eat, or how many children they can have, or what they can set their thermostat to. Thats ridiculous. Our military is the largest single waster of energy in the entire WORLD. Why don't we start THERE? Let's change the profit-seeking behaviors which make these destrucive decisions inevitable. Because it's still about money, and that America is an oligarchy. until that's reversed (starting with the media), the interests of the many will never be represented.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Saturday, September 21, 2019 8:26 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Just because the news died doesn't mean the Amazon fires did.

https://www.pri.org/stories/2019-09-17/amazon-fires-push-forest-closer
-dangerous-tipping-point

Amazon fires push the forest closer to a dangerous tipping point
September 17, 2019 · 12:00 PM EDT

And if democrats don't do anything different, how are they any better?

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Monday, September 30, 2019 11:16 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/amazon-still-fire-conservation-grou
ps-blame-illegal-logging-criminal-networks-n1056236

One week ago.

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Tuesday, October 1, 2019 12:14 AM

Not suggesting that it isn't a problem, but there have been much larger fires in the Amazon before this one.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, October 1, 2019 9:41 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Long-Term Disaster Is Now The Best-Case Scenario

The world has warmed more than one degree Celsius since the Industrial Revolution. The Paris climate agreement — the nonbinding, unenforceable and already unheeded treaty signed on Earth Day in 2016 — hoped to restrict warming to two degrees. The odds of succeeding, according to a recent study based on current emissions trends, are one in 20. If by some miracle we are able to limit warming to two degrees, we will only have to negotiate the extinction of the world’s tropical reefs, sea-level rise of several meters and the abandonment of the Persian Gulf. The climate scientist James Hansen has called two-degree warming “a prescription for long-term disaster.” Long-term disaster is now the best-case scenario. Three-degree warming is a prescription for short-term disaster: forests in the Arctic and the loss of most coastal cities. Robert Watson, a former director of the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, has argued that three-degree warming is the realistic minimum. Four degrees: Europe in permanent drought; vast areas of China, India and Bangladesh claimed by desert; Polynesia swallowed by the sea; the Colorado River thinned to a trickle; the American Southwest largely uninhabitable. The prospect of a five-degree warming has prompted some of the world’s leading climate scientists to warn of the end of human civilization.

More at https://andrewtobias.com/long-term-disaster-is-now-the-best-case-scena
rio/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, October 1, 2019 9:56 AM

... stay crunchy...

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Not suggesting that it isn't a problem, but there have been much larger fires in the Amazon before this one.

Did you see the image Kiki (bless her) posted? It's not "a fire." Having said that... and against my better judgement, I'm going to hope you are right in terms of total acreage burning, and that you have cites to back up your claim. Otherwise I'll just chalk up to you being a contrarian.

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Tuesday, October 1, 2019 10:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by CAPTAINCRUNCH:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Not suggesting that it isn't a problem, but there have been much larger fires in the Amazon before this one.

Did you see the image Kiki (bless her) posted? It's not "a fire." Having said that... and against my better judgement, I'm going to hope you are right in terms of total acreage burning, and that you have cites to back up your claim. Otherwise I'll just chalk up to you being a contrarian.

There's this, for starters...

https://www.globalfiredata.org/forecast.html#elbeni

Hover over the individual years and you'll find that while 2019 is not great, it's nowhere near the worst we've seen. 2010 is the worst on record in this graph.

It should be noted, even though the result is the same since they didn't know what the hell they were doing, most of these fires were man made, intended to be controlled burning for agriculture.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/three-things-know-about-fire
s-sweeping-through-amazon-rainforest-180972962/

I'm just mentioning that this shouldn't be attributed to global warming, but a much more direct man-made problem.

Although I have yet to find a great article I read about a few weeks back (and posted somewhere here in the RWED), here's a few others to ease your mind. (You try Googling "Amazon" even with a bunch of filters and not end up with more than half of your results referencing Bezos or his company in one way or another).

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/about-the-amazon-rainforest-fires-le
ts-separate-fact-from-fiction-2019-08-29

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/23/world/americas/amazon-fire-brazil-b
olsonaro.html

Again, I'm not saying this is good news. I'm just saying that people need to read wider sources of information before making decisions on things. We have plenty of historical data to back up the fact that this is nowhere near the worst season on record in the Amazon.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, October 1, 2019 2:42 PM

WISHIMAY

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Our military is the largest single waster of energy in the entire WORLD. Why don't we start THERE?

You just know the ten people here have the ability to do ANYTHING about our military

Technically, she didn't say the word "war", but I'mma still call it a

Drink up!

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Tuesday, October 1, 2019 4:03 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Not suggesting that it isn't a problem, but there have been much larger fires in the Amazon before this one.

Quote:
Originally posted by CAPTAINCRUNCH:
Did you see the image Kiki (bless her) posted? It's not "a fire." Having said that... and against my better judgement, I'm going to hope you are right in terms of total acreage burning, and that you have cites to back up your claim. Otherwise I'll just chalk up to you being a contrarian.

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
There's this, for starters...
https://www.globalfiredata.org/forecast.html#elbeni
Hover over the individual years and you'll find that while 2019 is not great, it's nowhere near the worst we've seen. 2010 is the worst on record in this graph.

The issue isn't 'was this the worst year ever' - but - how much of the rainforest is left? (And btw, not just in Brazil, but in the entire S Amer rainforest ecosystem.)
The rainforest depends on a large continuous mass of trees to absorb, and exhale, water, so that the downwind area gets rain, and so on.
Between the logging, the mining, and the burning - all either entirely or substantially human activities - the forest is undergoing desertification. And once a certain amount is gone, it can't sustain itself any more. And there appears to be no human intervention to re-establish it.
We here in the US did something similar with large tracts of formerly temperate rainforests along the west coast. Those grassy hills mid- through northern- CA next to the ocean? They used to be temperate rainforest similar to what you see in Oregon and Washington.
Granted, the mechanisms were different. Those forests relied on conifers catching the fog and dripping it down to the soil. But the end result is the same. Without the big stands of big conifers catching moisture and feeding it downwards, no little conifers can grow. Without little conifers there is no future forest. Those forests are gone.

The same thing has happened in Ireland, whose massive forests were cut down for shipbuilding.

The same thing has happened in Lebanon which is now an arid rocky place. Those fabled biblical 'cedars of Lebanon' which swathed the are in forest are no more, and never to be again.

There can be no doubt what lies ahead for the Amazon if we continue on destroying more of more of the less and less that's left. That's what makes 2019 significant. Not that it's the worst ever, but that it's destroying so much of what there still is.

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
It should be noted, even though the result is the same since they didn't know what the hell they were doing, most of these fires were man made, intended to be controlled burning for agriculture.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/three-things-know-about-fire
s-sweeping-through-amazon-rainforest-180972962/
I'm just mentioning that this shouldn't be attributed to global warming ...

... which I didn't, though it has a deleterious effect on it ...

Quote:
... but a much more direct man-made problem.
Although I have yet to find a great article I read about a few weeks back (and posted somewhere here in the RWED), here's a few others to ease your mind. (You try Googling "Amazon" even with a bunch of filters and not end up with more than half of your results referencing Bezos or his company in one way or another).
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/about-the-amazon-rainforest-fires-le
ts-separate-fact-from-fiction-2019-08-29
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/23/world/americas/amazon-fire-brazil-b
olsonaro.html
Again, I'm not saying this is good news. I'm just saying that people need to read wider sources of information before making decisions on things. We have plenty of historical data to back up the fact that this is nowhere near the worst season on record in the Amazon.

There are a lot of things I DIDN'T post, on purpose, because I knew they weren't true. I DIDN'T post that the Amazon was 'the lungs of the earth'. I DIDN'T post the even more ridiculous claim that the fires would use up all the oxygen. I DIDN'T post that it was all Bolsonaro's fault, though he made himself look stupid and petty by getting into a spat with Macron over whose wife was prettier, and refusing France's firefighting help. I DIDN'T post that only Brazil was at issue, or only the Amazon was at issue ... Indonesia is burning as well. And so on.
So, those arguments don't apply.
Anyway, gotta go, got stuff to do b4 a party. See 'ya!

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Tuesday, October 1, 2019 9:35 PM

I'm not arguing with you Kiki. I don't think any of your points aren't sound.

I've heard a lot of people though, both here and in real life, talk about how this is the end of the world or something. What they've all had in common is that they believe that what has happened this season is an unprecedented event, which obviously is not true.

The fact that it is not unprecedented might actually be worse in the long run. Just wanted to make sure people knew the facts is all. Because, as you know, most people here don't bother to read past an article headline.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, October 1, 2019 10:33 PM

OONJERAH

I can easily blame it on people like me:

I sleep a lot, then spend the rest
of my time playing on the computer.

How did I get this way? My Dad was an intelligent and
hard working man.
Here's how. Both parents were always laying guilt trips
on me. So I went to live in Fantasyland ... fun places like
Firefly - Serenity.

Here's my hopeful solution: More people who work hard
without laying guilt trips on others.

... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Tuesday, October 1, 2019 11:38 PM

WISHIMAY

Quote:
Originally posted by Oonjerah:
I can easily blame it on people like me:

I sleep a lot, then spend the rest
of my time playing on the computer.

How did I get this way? My Dad was an intelligent and
hard working man.
Here's how. Both parents were always laying guilt trips
on me. So I went to live in Fantasyland ... fun places like
Firefly - Serenity.

Here's my hopeful solution: More people who work hard
without laying guilt trips on others.

Nice to see it hasn't done you in yet.
Did you get around to trying out Steam?

Hubby's fam were the same way, it's why he used to do so much D&D.
He just learned to stay away from them all together. Good luck trying to get people to stop guilt tripping on anything. I think it's Italy's national past-time...

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Tuesday, October 1, 2019 11:52 PM

Nice to see you Oonj.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, November 13, 2019 12:38 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

A belated HI, OONJ! I missed seeing your post until now since I don't come by this thread very often! I hope you're doing well!

*****

The reason why I came by here was to post this tidbit that I found. I know people are all worried about a "planet Venus" scenario: runaway global warming that turns us into a 600F hellhole.

So just OOC I looked up the percent CO2 in the Venusian atmo, wondering what level of CO2 could drive such an event.

Is it 500 ppm? (About 25% higher than today?) 10% 20% (the highest concentration in earth's geologic history, before life started efficiently precipitating carbon back into the geologic strata)?

NOPE! 96%!!!

apparently Venus suffered a planetary geologic catastrophe that released a lot of CO2 into the atmo all at once. The nearest equivalent on earth was magma burning thru coal beds when the Siberian trappa were formed, which led to an extinction event but not planet Venus.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Wednesday, November 13, 2019 1:18 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Hi OONJ!

I sleep a lot too, now that I'm retired! May I join your category?

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Wednesday, November 13, 2019 1:19 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Hey Signy

Also, Venus doesn't have a magnetic field and that means that all the lighter gasses have been preferentially stripped away, leaving CO2.

ETA: OTOH, Earth's atmosphere, according to a series I saw on TV, would also be chock-a-block full of CO2 just like Venus, if we didn't have life. Our CO2 stores are geologically immense, and if released would change the entire planet. (Not just in coal, oil, and gas, but carbonate rocks.) It was Earth's magnetic field that preserved the gasses that allowed for life to develop, that stored the CO2, that put Earth into a moderate temperature regime.

Another planet without a protective magnetic field is Mars, which has also had pretty much all gasses but CO2 stripped away. But Mars is too far away from the sun, receiving too little insolation, to get very warm.

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Wednesday, November 13, 2019 2:07 PM

... stay crunchy...

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I know people are all worried about a "planet Venus" scenario: runaway global warming that turns us into a 600F hellhole.

*snort* I've never heard anyone worry about the Earth becoming Venus - the made up sh*t you post.

Besides, we don't have to become Venus to be in danger. We've already been losing lives to higher pollution levels:

https://www.businessinsider.com/carbon-dioxide-record-human-health-eff
ects-2018-5

"Humans have never had to breathe air that's this polluted. Increased air pollution has been shown to cause lung cancer, cardiovascular disease, and higher rates of allergies and asthma. A recent study found that 9 million people died prematurely from pollution-related diseases in 2015, accounting for 16% of all deaths worldwide."

Is this your new belief - that climate change is a hoax - now that you are a hardcore Trump believer? You change beliefs faster than a chameleon changes colors.

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Wednesday, November 13, 2019 2:11 PM

... stay crunchy...

Quote:
Originally posted by Oonjerah:
I can easily blame it on people like me:

I sleep a lot, then spend the rest
of my time playing on the computer.

How did I get this way? My Dad was an intelligent and
hard working man.
Here's how. Both parents were always laying guilt trips
on me. So I went to live in Fantasyland ... fun places like
Firefly - Serenity.

Here's my hopeful solution: More people who work hard
without laying guilt trips on others.

... oooOO}{OOooo ...

Hi OONJ - you had us all worried! (not trying to make you feel guilty)

Hope you are having a good day playing on the computer and sleeping in!

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Wednesday, November 13, 2019 2:30 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:

I know people are all worried about a "planet Venus" scenario: runaway global warming that turns us into a 600F hellhole.- SIGNY

*snort* I've never heard anyone worry about the Earth becoming Venus - CC

Of course you haven't. That's because you don't know shit about shit.

Quote:
Stephen Hawking: Earth Could Turn Into Hothouse Planet Like Venus

https://www.livescience.com/59693-could-earth-turn-into-venus.html

The made up sh*t YOU post!

Quote:
Besides, we don't have to become Venus to be in danger. We've already been losing lives to higher pollution levels:

https://www.businessinsider.com/carbon-dioxide-record-human-health-eff
ects-2018-5

Of course. As a former air pollution regulator I spent lmost my entire professional life enforcing air pollution regulations and studying the effects of air pollution. I can quote you chapter and verse about the number of excess deaths in the SCAB (approx 8000) and the kind of air pollution with the worst health effects (PM2.5 and much smaller.) But I wasn't posting about AIR POLLUION, was I? I ws posting about the Planet Venus Effect.

Quote:
"Humans have never had to breathe air that's this polluted. Increased air pollution has been shown to cause lung cancer, cardiovascular disease, and higher rates of allergies and asthma. A recent study found that 9 million people died prematurely from pollution-related diseases in 2015, accounting for 16% of all deaths worldwide."

Yep, and just imagine what smoking would do?

But there are some people is some areas who experienced high levels of air pollution long before industrialization - women who cooked indoors over wood or dung fires, for example. Primitive peoples who warmed their caves or huts with smokey fires. A study of their lungs reveals very high levels of soot pollution including PAHs.

Quote:
Is this your new belief - that climate change is a hoax - now that you are a hardcore Trump believer?

Oh, fuck you. IS THAT WHAT I POSTED???

NO, IT IS NOT Your habit of LYING what people post about ... seriously GSTRING, you should look into that. Your constant lies are only confusing YOU, you're certianly not confusing me.

The shit you post, indeed.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Wednesday, November 13, 2019 2:32 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I know people are all worried about a "planet Venus" scenario: runaway global warming that turns us into a 600F hellhole.

Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
*snort* I've never heard anyone worry about the Earth becoming Venus - the made up sh*t you post.

Boy are you an ignor-anus. Maybe you should get off your 'smart' phone.

From MIT Technology Review:
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/426608/how-likely-is-a-runaway-gree
nhouse-effect-on-earth/
How Likely Is a Runaway Greenhouse Effect on Earth?
...
But that raises an important question: is it possible that we could trigger a runaway greenhouse effect ourselves by adding carbon dioxide to the atmosphere?

You could save yourself a lot of unneeded humiliation, not to mention you trashing your own reputation, by taking less than a minute to google the things you THINK you know.

A billion flies eat shit.

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Wednesday, November 13, 2019 3:52 PM

... stay crunchy...

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

I know people are all worried about a "planet Venus" scenario: runaway global warming that turns us into a 600F hellhole.- SIGNY

*snort* I've never heard anyone worry about the Earth becoming Venus - CC
Of course you haven't. That's because you don't know shit about shit.

Quote:
Stephen Hawking: Earth Could Turn Into Hothouse Planet Like Venus

https://www.livescience.com/59693-could-earth-turn-into-venus.html

The made up sh*t YOU post!

I know everything about the shit you post - you're a regular typing b-hole.

You say: "I know people are all worried about a "planet Venus" scenario..." and then cite one person's extreme scenario. One. Person. Sorry, toots, you screwed that one up. Your Fake Outrage needs a new coat of paint.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
But I wasn't posting about AIR POLLUION, was I? I ws posting about the Planet Venus Effect.

CO2 is part of "AIR POLLUION" - WTF is "POLLUION?" anyway? Did they pay you at that job you say you had?

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
But there are some people is some areas who experienced high levels of air pollution long before industrialization - women who cooked indoors over wood or dung fires, for example. Primitive peoples who warmed their caves or huts with smokey fires. A study of their lungs reveals very high levels of soot pollution including PAHs.

Um, okaaayyy...... did you retire or get fired?

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Is this your new belief - that climate change is a hoax - now that you are a hardcore Trump believer?
Oh, fuck you. IS THAT WHAT I POSTED???

ARE YOU GOING TO DEFLECT THAT WAY EVERY TIME SOMEONE ASKS YOU A QUESTION? lol

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Your habit of LYING what people post about ... seriously GSTRING, you should look into that. Your constant lies are only confusing YOU, you're certianly not confusing me.

Dodgeball with SHITNYM - I win again. 2 easy - "certianly."

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Wednesday, November 13, 2019 4:05 PM

lol

Nobody cares.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, November 13, 2019 5:05 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I know people are all worried about a "planet Venus" scenario: runaway global warming that turns us into a 600F hellhole.

Quote:
Originally posted by MUSHY:
*snort* I've never heard anyone worry about the Earth becoming Venus

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Of course you haven't. That's because you don't know shit about shit.

Stephen Hawking: Earth Could Turn Into Hothouse Planet Like Venus
https://www.livescience.com/59693-could-earth-turn-into-venus.html

Quote:
Originally posted by MUSHY:
The made up sh*t YOU post!
I know everything about the shit you post - you're a regular typing b-hole.

You say: "I know people are all worried about a "planet Venus" scenario..." and then cite one person's extreme scenario. One. Person. Sorry, toots, you screwed that one up. Your Fake Outrage needs a new coat of paint.

And then ** I ** posted about a whole MIT team discussing the runaway 'planet Venus' global warming issue. Something YOU could have known if you had bothered to - yanno - look up anything at all.

Want more?
https://www.space.com/42570-venus-model-for-climate-change.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runaway_greenhouse_effect
https://www.livescience.com/59693-could-earth-turn-into-venus.html
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fact-or-fiction-runaway-gre
enhouse/
https://cosmosmagazine.com/climate/a-warming-earth-might-eventually-co
py-the-greenhouse-effect-of-venus
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/426608/how-likely-is-a-runaway-gree
nhouse-effect-on-earth/
https://history.aip.org/climate/Venus.htm
https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2534/scientists-assess-potential-for-sup
er-greenhouse-effect-in-earths-tropics/

And while some say yes, some say no, some say maybe, and some say not yet ... MANY people were concerned enough to look at the question.

AND ONCE AGAIN - YOU'RE WRONG.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
But I wasn't posting about AIR POLLUION, was I? I was posting about the Planet Venus Effect.

Quote:
Originally posted by MUSHY:
CO2 is part of "AIR POLLUTION" - WTF is "POLLUTION?" anyway? Did they pay you at that job you say you had?

AND ONCE AGAIN - YOU'RE WRONG.

AIR POLLUTANTS ARE:
Ground-level Ozone
Particulate Matter
Carbon MONoxide (hint: it's NOT carbon DIoxide! I know ... all that chemical names and chemistry stuff. SOooooooo confusing!)
Lead
Sulfur Dioxide
Nitrogen Dioxide
https://www.epa.gov/criteria-air-pollutants

But I don't think you even understand what those REAL pollutant names mean. And yanno, I'm not going to tell you. LEARN SOMETHING on your own, for a change!

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
But there are some people is some areas who experienced high levels of air pollution long before industrialization - women who cooked indoors over wood or dung fires, for example. Primitive peoples who warmed their caves or huts with smokey fires. A study of their lungs reveals very high levels of soot pollution including PAHs.

Quote:
Originally posted by MUSHY:
Um, okaaayyy...... did you retire or get fired?

And now you're trolling because ONCE AGAIN - YOU'VE GOT NOTHING. Dood - you're firing blanks.

Quote:
Originally posted by MUSHY:
Is this your new belief - that climate change is a hoax - now that you are a hardcore Trump believer?

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Oh, fuck you. IS THAT WHAT I POSTED???

Quote:
Originally posted by MUSHY:
ARE YOU GOING TO DEFLECT THAT WAY EVERY TIME SOMEONE ASKS YOU A QUESTION? lol

Are you going to lie with every sentence?

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Your habit of LYING what people post about ... seriously GSTRING, you should look into that. Your constant lies are only confusing YOU, you're certainly not confusing me.

Quote:
Originally posted by MUSHY:
Dodgeball with SHITNYM - I win again. 2 easy - "certianly."

You know, EVERYONE ELSE can see that you're lying, straw-manning, and trolling.

Just because you say ** I WIN! ** doesn't mean you have.

A billion flies eat shit.

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Wednesday, November 13, 2019 5:07 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:

I know people are all worried about a "planet Venus" scenario: runaway global warming that turns us into a 600F hellhole.- SIGNY

*snort* I've never heard anyone worry about the Earth becoming Venus - CC

Of course you haven't. That's because you don't know shit about shit.
Quote:
Stephen Hawking: Earth Could Turn Into Hothouse Planet Like Venus

https://www.livescience.com/59693-could-earth-turn-into-venus.html

The made up sh*t YOU post! - SIGNYM

I know everything about the shit you post - GSTRING

Liar. You were honest when you said "I've never heard of anyone worry about the Earth becoming Venus". That makes your second statement a lie.

Quote:
[You say: "I know people are all worried about a "planet Venus" scenario..." and then cite one person's extreme scenario. One. Person. Sorry, toots, you screwed that one up. Your Fake Outrage needs a new coat of paint.

You need a new set of deflections. It's not just one person, and it's not just hysterical "people" like REAVERBOT but people who know a lot more about this than you do: Physicists. (You DO recognize Hawking's name?) Climatologists. (Hansen. You know who he is too?) Modelers at MIT. (You know what MIT is, right?) NASA. (Unknown to you?) For god's sake, GSTRING, why do you have to pretend that you know everything about everything? Can't you put your ego and fake outrage away long enough to actually admit that you were wrong, and learn something for a change?

Apparently not!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Thursday, November 14, 2019 10:02 AM

... stay crunchy...

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
lol

Nobody cares.

Wrong as usual: YOU don't care, so maybe stfu and get a life? Posting "nobody cares" and "lol" over and over is a pretty sh*t life, imho. Or is that your job now? Just posting to piss people off?

BTW, the Harpies obviously care.

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Thursday, November 14, 2019 10:07 AM

... stay crunchy...

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:

I know people are all worried about a "planet Venus" scenario: runaway global warming that turns us into a 600F hellhole.- SIGNY

*snort* I've never heard anyone worry about the Earth becoming Venus - CC

Of course you haven't. That's because you don't know shit about shit.
Quote:
Stephen Hawking: Earth Could Turn Into Hothouse Planet Like Venus

https://www.livescience.com/59693-could-earth-turn-into-venus.html

The made up sh*t YOU post! - SIGNYM

I know everything about the shit you post - GSTRING
Liar. You were honest when you said "I've never heard of anyone worry about the Earth becoming Venus". That makes your second statement a lie.

Quote:
[You say: "I know people are all worried about a "planet Venus" scenario..." and then cite one person's extreme scenario. One. Person. Sorry, toots, you screwed that one up. Your Fake Outrage needs a new coat of paint.
You need a new set of deflections. It's not just one person, and it's not just hysterical "people" like REAVERBOT but people who know a lot more about this than you do: Physicists. (You DO recognize Hawking's name?) Climatologists. (Hansen. You know who he is too?) Modelers at MIT. (You know what MIT is, right?) NASA. (Unknown to you?) For god's sake, GSTRING, why do you have to pretend that you know everything about everything? Can't you put your ego and fake outrage away long enough to actually admit that you were wrong, and learn something for a change?

Apparently not!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

Yawn. All harpy deflections aside... what was your point in posting that in the first place? It's beyond obvious that the Venus scenario means nothing practically to MOST (99.99%) people. We'd be dying off quickly well before the 600 degree Venus temps. So it's only a item for a very few people - so why post it?

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Thursday, November 14, 2019 10:08 AM

... stay crunchy...

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I know people are all worried about a "planet Venus" scenario: runaway global warming that turns us into a 600F hellhole.
Quote:
Originally posted by MUSHY:
*snort* I've never heard anyone worry about the Earth becoming Venus
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Of course you haven't. That's because you don't know shit about shit.

Stephen Hawking: Earth Could Turn Into Hothouse Planet Like Venus
https://www.livescience.com/59693-could-earth-turn-into-venus.html
Quote:
Originally posted by MUSHY:
The made up sh*t YOU post!
I know everything about the shit you post - you're a regular typing b-hole.

You say: "I know people are all worried about a "planet Venus" scenario..." and then cite one person's extreme scenario. One. Person. Sorry, toots, you screwed that one up. Your Fake Outrage needs a new coat of paint.
And then ** I ** posted about a whole MIT team discussing the runaway 'planet Venus' global warming issue. Something YOU could have known if you had bothered to - yanno - look up anything at all.

Want more?
https://www.space.com/42570-venus-model-for-climate-change.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runaway_greenhouse_effect
https://www.livescience.com/59693-could-earth-turn-into-venus.html
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fact-or-fiction-runaway-gre
enhouse/
https://cosmosmagazine.com/climate/a-warming-earth-might-eventually-co
py-the-greenhouse-effect-of-venus
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/426608/how-likely-is-a-runaway-gree
nhouse-effect-on-earth/
https://history.aip.org/climate/Venus.htm
https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2534/scientists-assess-potential-for-sup
er-greenhouse-effect-in-earths-tropics/

And while some say yes, some say no, some say maybe, and some say not yet ... MANY people were concerned enough to look at the question.

AND ONCE AGAIN - YOU'RE WRONG.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
But I wasn't posting about AIR POLLUION, was I? I was posting about the Planet Venus Effect.
Quote:
Originally posted by MUSHY:
CO2 is part of "AIR POLLUTION" - WTF is "POLLUTION?" anyway? Did they pay you at that job you say you had?
AND ONCE AGAIN - YOU'RE WRONG.

AIR POLLUTANTS ARE:
Ground-level Ozone
Particulate Matter
Carbon MONoxide (hint: it's NOT carbon DIoxide! I know ... all that chemical names and chemistry stuff. SOooooooo confusing!)
Lead
Sulfur Dioxide
Nitrogen Dioxide
https://www.epa.gov/criteria-air-pollutants

But I don't think you even understand what those REAL pollutant names mean. And yanno, I'm not going to tell you. LEARN SOMETHING on your own, for a change!
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
But there are some people is some areas who experienced high levels of air pollution long before industrialization - women who cooked indoors over wood or dung fires, for example. Primitive peoples who warmed their caves or huts with smokey fires. A study of their lungs reveals very high levels of soot pollution including PAHs.

Quote:
Originally posted by MUSHY:
Um, okaaayyy...... did you retire or get fired?
And now you're trolling because ONCE AGAIN - YOU'VE GOT NOTHING. Dood - you're firing blanks.
Quote:
Originally posted by MUSHY:
Is this your new belief - that climate change is a hoax - now that you are a hardcore Trump believer?

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Oh, fuck you. IS THAT WHAT I POSTED???

Quote:
Originally posted by MUSHY:
ARE YOU GOING TO DEFLECT THAT WAY EVERY TIME SOMEONE ASKS YOU A QUESTION? lol
Are you going to lie with every sentence?
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Your habit of LYING what people post about ... seriously GSTRING, you should look into that. Your constant lies are only confusing YOU, you're certainly not confusing me.

Quote:
Originally posted by MUSHY:
Dodgeball with SHITNYM - I win again. 2 easy - "certianly."
You know, EVERYONE ELSE can see that you're lying, straw-manning, and trolling.

Just because you say ** I WIN! ** doesn't mean you have.

A billion flies eat shit.

lol

Nobody cares.

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Thursday, November 14, 2019 11:25 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:

Yawn. All deflections aside...-GSTRING

Son, if we were to leave 'all deflections aside" YOUR posts would be almost entirely blank.

Quote:
... what was your point in posting that in the first place? =GSTRING

I said it was a tidbit. An item of information that I looked up and found surprising so I thought to pass on.

Yes, I know: Learning in beyond you.

But one of the ways we learn about earth is by studying other planets in the solar system: How they're alike, how they're different. Do they undergo the same climatic shifts at the same time as earth? Mars and its shrinking and expanding polar ice caps, for example, might reveal changes in solar output and insolation that we're not detecting on earth because of our rapidly changing atmo chemistry. Venus, for example, reveals the necessity of certain solar-powered forms of life which sequester carbon and release oxygen, forming a closed-loop system.

Like I said: It's just informational.

Quote:
It's beyond obvious that the Venus scenario means nothing practically to MOST (99.99%) people. We'd be dying off quickly well before the 600 degree Venus temps. So it's only a item for a very few people - so why post it?

Like I said, it was a tidbit. But it opens up a new direction of thought - one of the main differences between us and Venus is life which sequesters carbon and releases oxygen.

Aside from the forests (the "lungs of the planet") I suppose we should look into the health of plankton and coral reefs, because they're ALSO lungs of the planet. How are THEY doing? Something to look into, I think.

*****

BTW, I know that there are more immediate concerns. We are driving our own extinction-level event, which I prefer to call the Plasticene Era. We're doing this not just with global climate shift but also habitat loss, pollution, pesticides, and the introduction of foreign species everywhere. We're driving changes faster than the earth can adapt to.

I read an article that says that we should forget organic foods because they require way more land than industrialized agriculture to produce. My feeling is that if you don't have enough land for organic farming to feed the world, then there are just too damn many of us. We see that everywhere: fish stocks depleted, land degraded, forests destroyed.

Unlike the globalists, tho, I think the answer is women's rights: allow women a role in society aside from baby-making, give them access education and to birth control and power over their own bodies and birth rates will naturally fall.

I'm not that far away from you and WISHY on the topic.

But it seems like all YOU can do it attack, lie, strawman, and troll, even with people who essentially agree with you. Jeez, you're such a tool.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Thursday, November 14, 2019 12:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
lol

Nobody cares.

Wrong as usual: YOU don't care, so maybe stfu and get a life? Posting "nobody cares" and "lol" over and over is a pretty sh*t life, imho. Or is that your job now? Just posting to piss people off?

BTW, the Harpies obviously care.

Okay. Let me rephrase it.

Not enough people care to ever make a difference.

Hate to break it to you, but the only way you're going to do anything about long term climate change is if you eliminate 2/3rds of the population of the world overnight.

Meanwhile...

Instead of patting yourself on the back today for all the great things you did for the environment, why don't you keep a little journal this week of all the shit you do in your day to day life to trash it?

I'm talking gas to work. I'm talking temperature control in your house. I'm talking anything you use that comes from factories in China whose pollution you don't have to think about since it isn't made here.

If you have any kids, go ahead and add that to your list because that's your fault too.

Then tell all the people who "care" about the issue that you know to do the same for a week.

Get back to me with the results and we'll see how much you care.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, November 14, 2019 3:05 PM

... stay crunchy...

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

I'm not that far away from you and WISHY on the topic.

But it seems like all YOU can do it attack, lie, strawman, and troll, even with people who essentially agree with you. Jeez, you're such a tool.

Nah - you've earned my attitude all by yourself.

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Thursday, November 14, 2019 3:12 PM

... stay crunchy...

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Okay. Let me rephrase it.

Not enough people care to ever make a difference.

Hate to break it to you, but the only way you're going to do anything about long term climate change is if you eliminate 2/3rds of the population of the world overnight.

Hey Wish! You want to help me choose?

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Meanwhile...

Instead of patting yourself on the back today for all the great things you did for the environment, why don't you keep a little journal this week of all the shit you do in your day to day life to trash it?

I'm talking gas to work. I'm talking temperature control in your house. I'm talking anything you use that comes from factories in China whose pollution you don't have to think about since it isn't made here.

If you have any kids, go ahead and add that to your list because that's your fault too.

Then tell all the people who "care" about the issue that you know to do the same for a week.

Get back to me with the results and we'll see how much you care.

You're looking at it all wrong which is probably why you just shrug and throw up you hands (like most people). You were close to understanding the solutions with your first comments, though. Real close.

6: "Not enough people care to ever make a difference."

Ding Ding Ding!

So, if you wanted to, how would you make more people care?

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Thursday, November 14, 2019 3:25 PM

You can't make them care more.

Posting pretty shit on Facebook doesn't count as caring.

None of them will make changes if it negatively impacts their lives, or even inconveniences them and prohibits their goals of constant immediate gratification. Or at least, never enough to actually make a dent in any of the problems.

And as for the sentence you underlined, laugh it up all you want. That is the ONLY way you're going to solve the problem, since this is a question of overpopulation of the planet and nothing else.

I'm not ever going to suggest who should live and die, or who should and shouldn't procreate. I'm just simply stating the fact that unless this were to happen than there is no reversing the damage that just grows exponentially as the underlying cause continues to grow exponentially.

It's no wonder you never hear anybody from either side saying it. Of course they'd lose whatever position they were running for on that platform. Nobody wants to hear that shit.

Doesn't mean it isn't true.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, November 15, 2019 9:01 AM

JAYNEZTOWN

No doubt man changes the enviornment and industry pollutes but there is no going back, can we move forward while protecting resources, protecting the land air and enviornment?

as for extinctions
maybe the mind and cult extinction comes first

I think Juadism and most of the Judean Zealots will go extinct very soon, the inbreeders can stay in their sandbox, the religion type who chucked Galileo Galilei into a jail for 'wrong think' are long gone, the new America gave the world new tech, contributions from the Russians, the Japanese, the Chinese, the Europeans, even India now all have acess to space, there are technological wonders to be found and now a Station orbiting the Earth at a speed of roughly 18,000 miles per hour flies around the planet 15 or 16 times per day, out there in the Black in Zero G looking at the Stars what is the point in praying to some stupidass Western Wailing Wall Kotel or some dumbass islamist idol Shrine at Mecca ... idiocracy or futurist?

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Friday, November 15, 2019 11:32 AM

... stay crunchy...

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
You can't make them care more.

Damn! On the nose. Can't make people care about who they vote for either, mostly.

So the next question is: does climate change matter to you? It's all pretty moot if you don't really care. I don't blame you or most of the population who don't care. It's a hard thing to wrap your brain around unless it affects you personally, daily. And yet, it's really not that hard to care - about as much effort as not caring.

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Posting pretty shit on Facebook doesn't count as caring.

I don't think it's as bad as you do. There's positive impact from trends and social movements. You never know who's going to be positively affected and wind up making a powerful change.

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
None of them will make changes if it negatively impacts their lives, or even inconveniences them and prohibits their goals of constant immediate gratification. Or at least, never enough to actually make a dent in any of the problems.

Charity negatively impacts people's lives too (the ones who give), and yet people still do it. You saying "none" is your absolutism f*ck nuttery. Not sure why you keep doing that.

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
And as for the sentence you underlined, laugh it up all you want. That is the ONLY way you're going to solve the problem, since this is a question of overpopulation of the planet and nothing else.

I'm not ever going to suggest who should live and die, or who should and shouldn't procreate. I'm just simply stating the fact that unless this were to happen than there is no reversing the damage that just grows exponentially as the underlying cause continues to grow exponentially.

I wasn't laughing at the underlying concept. More at you and the harpies. You 3 make up the dumbest sh*t about other posters. "Wish says she wants to kill millions! OMG, wha!!!!" SIGDUNCE. Artificial whining. The fake outrage is so old. It's one reason those 2 will never be worth more than a few snarky posts. That and being lying @holes.

Bottom line: If you want to influence people's behavior, you need to incentivize people to make those changes in a positive way. More carrot, less stick. Tax breaks and other financial incentives come to mind. There are things that can be done, just have to want to do it.

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Friday, November 15, 2019 1:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
You can't make them care more.

Damn! On the nose. Can't make people care about who they vote for either, mostly.

So the next question is: does climate change matter to you? It's all pretty moot if you don't really care. I don't blame you or most of the population who don't care. It's a hard thing to wrap your brain around unless it affects you personally, daily. And yet, it's really not that hard to care - about as much effort as not caring.

Voting, at least when it comes to this issue, is meaningless. I know that some people hold out that this is not true, but it is. I'm not a denier of climate change. I don't believe it's as imminent as some say that it is, but I think it's foolish to believe that it doesn't exist and it's not just getting exponentially worse.

Does it matter to me? Sure. I guess. I'm likely not going to be here. I've talked about the issue before with my brother. I'm hoping that everything is still going along smoothly for my niece's entire life. But honestly, beyond that, no... I guess I'm not really all that concerned.

Overall, I don't think that humanity in general really has earned the right to continue its existence in perpetuity. If the climate change doesn't get us, nuclear and/or biological war or enslavement via AI eventually will.

We're not far removed from being a bunch of apes, but the technology we have on the other hand is staggering. A bunch of morons walking around with technology that we could put down at any second but are drawn to like a meth head to a pipe. Enslavement via AI would be the happiest of the outcome. There would be no Terminator type end of the human race in the end. The AI would win with billions of willing participants. If we somehow manage to survive climate change, extinction level war, and some random asteroid putting a football stadium sized hole in the planet at the speed of sound, I envision a future future for humanity that is more a cross between Ready Player One and The Matrix, with a lot of Blade Runner sexbots on the front lines.

In the mean time, I sleep just fine at night. I recycle. Letters from the power company always show that my usage is "Great" and less than my "most efficient neighbors". I hardly ever buy anything new unless it is absolutely necessary to. Every piece of tech I have in my house is either over a decade old or was a hand me down from somebody else. Outside of underwear, socks and shoes, all of my current wardrobe is either over a decade old or was bought at Goodwill, and most of those clothes have about 5 different "stages" before they finally find their final resting place in the trash. I don't have any kids that will exponentially increase my carbon footprint throughout their lives.

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Posting pretty shit on Facebook doesn't count as caring.

Quote:
I don't think it's as bad as you do. There's positive impact from trends and social movements. You never know who's going to be positively affected and wind up making a powerful change.

That's possible. But my point is that most of the people who partake in this type of activity are doing so to score the dopamine hit that comes with virtue signalling, and they do so while otherwise living a life of unbridled consumerism with no thought at all into how and where these products are made and under what conditions. No thoughts to all of the excessively needless packaging, particularly plastics, that come with every new item you buy. No thoughts at all of changing their own bad behavior to make the situation any better.

It's not as if even the biggest of virtue signalling tree huggers out there are doing it from a self sustaining farm while powering their iPhones or laptops with a crank attachment on an exercise bike.

No. I don't do that myself, but then again, I don't talk about climate change and try to throw around my fake moral superiority over others everyday either.

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
None of them will make changes if it negatively impacts their lives, or even inconveniences them and prohibits their goals of constant immediate gratification. Or at least, never enough to actually make a dent in any of the problems.

Quote:
Charity negatively impacts people's lives too (the ones who give), and yet people still do it. You saying "none" is your absolutism f*ck nuttery. Not sure why you keep doing that.

Most charity is a tax break. We can eliminate any billionaires giving anything as being a "good deed" right there. It's in their best interests, and in this case the good of others just happens to coincide with something that works for them.

Donating your time is much more valuable and meaningful, if you're looking to be charitable.

As for my "absolutism" I addressed that by finishing off that paragraph with "Or at least, never enough to make a dent in any of the problems", which I don't see how anyone could argue isn't the truth.

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
And as for the sentence you underlined, laugh it up all you want. That is the ONLY way you're going to solve the problem, since this is a question of overpopulation of the planet and nothing else.

I'm not ever going to suggest who should live and die, or who should and shouldn't procreate. I'm just simply stating the fact that unless this were to happen than there is no reversing the damage that just grows exponentially as the underlying cause continues to grow exponentially.

Quote:
I wasn't laughing at the underlying concept. More at you and the harpies. You 3 make up the dumbest sh*t about other posters. "Wish says she wants to kill millions! OMG, wha!!!!" SIGDUNCE. Artificial whining. The fake outrage is so old. It's one reason those 2 will never be worth more than a few snarky posts. That and being lying @holes.

No. Wish actually does say that. Quite often, and in quite a few different ways.

I realize that with the very limited pool of people here that post anymore these days that one might be tempted to form alliances with people who they would never do so in their real lives, but you need to take a step back and call out bad actors when they see them. When you don't, it comes off as if you condone the behavior or the ideas they present. Not at all because you said anything like that or even quoted them and agreeing with the posts... but simply because of the unmistakable alliances that we have made in the RWED over the years.

Despite all of my problems with T, he is the only person here who I've ever seen do that besides me. He took issue with stuff that Second said not once, but twice... and I'm very glad that he did because what he was saying was absolutely insane.

Quote:
Bottom line: If you want to influence people's behavior, you need to incentivize people to make those changes in a positive way. More carrot, less stick. Tax breaks and other financial incentives come to mind. There are things that can be done, just have to want to do it.

Sure. But one of the problems about that right now is that more than 50% of the population here in the states are living paycheck to paycheck and couldn't even afford to cover a $1,000 emergency. It's been that way for two decades now. Where is the money going to come from? This should have been happening back in the 90's and early 2000's when things were going a lot better for nearly everyone.

I've suggested something that is never going to happen before, on more than one occassion. And yes, just like the billionaires who give charitably, it's something that is personally in my best interest but would also be good for everyone else.

Stop giving tax incentives and tax breaks to people for pumping out more kids. Stop taxing single people more than married people. Cut the "education" expenses of property taxes out for people who don't have kids and make the people who do have kids pay more.

Incentivize saving over rampant consumerism. This could be done by eliminating the Property Tax altogether and replacing it with a Mortgage Tax. You own your house free and clear without a loan from a financial institution? Congratulations! You don't have to pay tax on it anymore.

This would also double as a huge boon to seniors who live on a fixed income, especially those of the aging generations who might not get much Social Security when it's time to retire.

I see a lot of potential ways to at least begin to attempt to address the problem of climate change. What I don't see is anybody talking about the real causes or possible solutions, or the will to do the work to make any ACTUAL change.

But it's always instantly gratifying to post about feels on social media and call it a day.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, November 15, 2019 2:01 PM

THG

Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
You can't make them care more.

I wasn't laughing at the underlying concept. More at you and the harpies. You 3 make up the dumbest sh*t about other posters. "Wish says she wants to kill millions! OMG, wha!!!!" SIGDUNCE. Artificial whining. The fake outrage is so old. It's one reason those 2 will never be worth more than a few snarky posts. That and being lying @holes.

T

Deep state describes dedicated, educated professionals.

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Friday, November 15, 2019 2:07 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Jack, I anyway appreciate this expanded glimpse into your view of the world. So I hope in the future you continue to expound on your thoughts like this. But I suspect that, sadly, anyone who doesn't feel they are in their tribe will simply not read it.

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
You can't make them care more.

Damn! On the nose. Can't make people care about who they vote for either, mostly.

So the next question is: does climate change matter to you? It's all pretty moot if you don't really care. I don't blame you or most of the population who don't care. It's a hard thing to wrap your brain around unless it affects you personally, daily. And yet, it's really not that hard to care - about as much effort as not caring.

Voting, at least when it comes to this issue, is meaningless. I know that some people hold out that this is not true, but it is. I'm not a denier of climate change. I don't believe it's as imminent as some say that it is, but I think it's foolish to believe that it doesn't exist and it's not just getting exponentially worse.

Does it matter to me? Sure. I guess. I'm likely not going to be here. I've talked about the issue before with my brother. I'm hoping that everything is still going along smoothly for my niece's entire life. But honestly, beyond that, no... I guess I'm not really all that concerned.

Overall, I don't think that humanity in general really has earned the right to continue its existence in perpetuity. If the climate change doesn't get us, nuclear and/or biological war or enslavement via AI eventually will.

We're not far removed from being a bunch of apes, but the technology we have on the other hand is staggering. A bunch of morons walking around with technology that we could put down at any second but are drawn to like a meth head to a pipe. Enslavement via AI would be the happiest of the outcome. There would be no Terminator type end of the human race in the end. The AI would win with billions of willing participants. If we somehow manage to survive climate change, extinction level war, and some random asteroid putting a football stadium sized hole in the planet at the speed of sound, I envision a future future for humanity that is more a cross between Ready Player One and The Matrix, with a lot of Blade Runner sexbots on the front lines.

In the mean time, I sleep just fine at night. I recycle. Letters from the power company always show that my usage is "Great" and less than my "most efficient neighbors". I hardly ever buy anything new unless it is absolutely necessary to. Every piece of tech I have in my house is either over a decade old or was a hand me down from somebody else. Outside of underwear, socks and shoes, all of my current wardrobe is either over a decade old or was bought at Goodwill, and most of those clothes have about 5 different "stages" before they finally find their final resting place in the trash. I don't have any kids that will exponentially increase my carbon footprint throughout their lives.

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Posting pretty shit on Facebook doesn't count as caring.

Quote:
I don't think it's as bad as you do. There's positive impact from trends and social movements. You never know who's going to be positively affected and wind up making a powerful change.

That's possible. But my point is that most of the people who partake in this type of activity are doing so to score the dopamine hit that comes with virtue signalling, and they do so while otherwise living a life of unbridled consumerism with no thought at all into how and where these products are made and under what conditions. No thoughts to all of the excessively needless packaging, particularly plastics, that come with every new item you buy. No thoughts at all of changing their own bad behavior to make the situation any better.

It's not as if even the biggest of virtue signalling tree huggers out there are doing it from a self sustaining farm while powering their iPhones or laptops with a crank attachment on an exercise bike.

No. I don't do that myself, but then again, I don't talk about climate change and try to throw around my fake moral superiority over others everyday either.

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
None of them will make changes if it negatively impacts their lives, or even inconveniences them and prohibits their goals of constant immediate gratification. Or at least, never enough to actually make a dent in any of the problems.

Quote:
Charity negatively impacts people's lives too (the ones who give), and yet people still do it. You saying "none" is your absolutism f*ck nuttery. Not sure why you keep doing that.

Most charity is a tax break. We can eliminate any billionaires giving anything as being a "good deed" right there. It's in their best interests, and in this case the good of others just happens to coincide with something that works for them.

Donating your time is much more valuable and meaningful, if you're looking to be charitable.

As for my "absolutism" I addressed that by finishing off that paragraph with "Or at least, never enough to make a dent in any of the problems", which I don't see how anyone could argue isn't the truth.

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
And as for the sentence you underlined, laugh it up all you want. That is the ONLY way you're going to solve the problem, since this is a question of overpopulation of the planet and nothing else.

I'm not ever going to suggest who should live and die, or who should and shouldn't procreate. I'm just simply stating the fact that unless this were to happen than there is no reversing the damage that just grows exponentially as the underlying cause continues to grow exponentially.

Quote:
I wasn't laughing at the underlying concept. More at you and the harpies. You 3 make up the dumbest sh*t about other posters. "Wish says she wants to kill millions! OMG, wha!!!!" SIGDUNCE. Artificial whining. The fake outrage is so old. It's one reason those 2 will never be worth more than a few snarky posts. That and being lying @holes.

No. Wish actually does say that. Quite often, and in quite a few different ways.

I realize that with the very limited pool of people here that post anymore these days that one might be tempted to form alliances with people who they would never do so in their real lives, but you need to take a step back and call out bad actors when they see them. When you don't, it comes off as if you condone the behavior or the ideas they present. Not at all because you said anything like that or even quoted them and agreeing with the posts... but simply because of the unmistakable alliances that we have made in the RWED over the years.

Despite all of my problems with T, he is the only person here who I've ever seen do that besides me. He took issue with stuff that Second said not once, but twice... and I'm very glad that he did because what he was saying was absolutely insane.

Quote:
Bottom line: If you want to influence people's behavior, you need to incentivize people to make those changes in a positive way. More carrot, less stick. Tax breaks and other financial incentives come to mind. There are things that can be done, just have to want to do it.

Sure. But one of the problems about that right now is that more than 50% of the population here in the states are living paycheck to paycheck and couldn't even afford to cover a $1,000 emergency. It's been that way for two decades now. Where is the money going to come from? This should have been happening back in the 90's and early 2000's when things were going a lot better for nearly everyone.

I've suggested something that is never going to happen before, on more than one occassion. And yes, just like the billionaires who give charitably, it's something that is personally in my best interest but would also be good for everyone else.

Stop giving tax incentives and tax breaks to people for pumping out more kids. Stop taxing single people more than married people. Cut the "education" expenses of property taxes out for people who don't have kids and make the people who do have kids pay more.

Incentivize saving over rampant consumerism. This could be done by eliminating the Property Tax altogether and replacing it with a Mortgage Tax. You own your house free and clear without a loan from a financial institution? Congratulations! You don't have to pay tax on it anymore.

This would also double as a huge boon to seniors who live on a fixed income, especially those of the aging generations who might not get much Social Security when it's time to retire.

I see a lot of potential ways to at least begin to attempt to address the problem of climate change. What I don't see is anybody talking about the real causes or possible solutions, or the will to do the work to make any ACTUAL change.

But it's always instantly gratifying to post about feels on social media and call it a day.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, November 15, 2019 11:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Jack, I anyway appreciate this expanded glimpse into your view of the world. So I hope in the future you continue to expound on your thoughts like this. But I suspect that, sadly, anyone who doesn't feel they are in their tribe will simply not read it.

You never know.

I've been trying to play more devil's advocate around here and other places recently, as well as trying to be a little less combative. I know full well it doesn't get you anywhere, but I have to admit that sometimes it just feels good.

But I do think that it hasn't gone unnoticed. The general tone when people I generally don't agree with are posting responses to me over the last few days have been a bit less, shall we say... hostile.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it will probably be read. Now... am I going to get a reply if they happen to agree with it? Probably not.

I guess I'm alright with that. If we're being honest here, I don't think any of us come here on the reg to sit down and sing koombaya with other people.

I would like if somehow we could get to a point where we aren't fighting with each other as if somehow each of us as individuals are actually part of the real problem or as if any of us as individuals actually have any real power to change anything in the world.

But what do I know? Maybe this daily exercise we all have going on here is a therapeutic activity that makes the rest of our lives better and I'm not the only one who uses the RWED as their political toilet.

I'd like to at least think that everybody here is much nicer to other people in the actual real world than they are here and they're able to at least be able to use this place as an arena to let their own demons come out and play a while before pulling them back in for a nap while going back to real life and interacting with people who are actually important to them.

In that case, I think it was all worth it.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, November 16, 2019 12:32 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Not too surprisingly, I disagree with CC and SIX about getting more people to "care".

I live thru the environmental movement, was part of it. LOTS of people cared. The original push against DDT and the other chlorinated pesticidies (Silent Spring). Earth Day. The Clean Air Act. Laws were written. Books were written. Organizations were formed. People banded together to do things like set up recycling centers.

There were some real hardcore activists back then too. Do you remember The Fox? That mysterious activist who would cap smokestacks and bung outfalls in the middle of the night? The Monkeywrench gang, who would move logging operation road-markers, and drain oil from bulldozers in the middle of the night?

But all of that "caring" turned out to be ineffective. In the end, we may have delayed the day of reckoning but we're sill heading towards it. The reason why is because the decision-making is STILL in the hands of the elite, who are almost entirely sociopaths. The reason why things are the way they are is because a few people are making a crap-ton of money keeping everyone else poor, ignorant, and powerless.

People have to care, but then they have to do something effective with that caring, something more than trying to save on gasoline (I didn't make up the land-use plans and concentrated manufacturing that made cars a necessity, did you?) or recycling (I didn't ask for everything to be wrapped in three layers of plastic, did you?) or buying organic (I didn't set up a capital-intensive agricultural system that requires farmers to flog the land for every penny that it's worth and then some, did you?)

People need to be able to make those decisions on their own, without the manipulations of the elite. Power needs to be in the hands of people, not corporations, banks, and centraized governments.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Saturday, November 16, 2019 1:55 AM

I get what you're saying, but everything you're talking about comes at a personal cost.

Maybe not a personal cost to life as you remember it in your youth, but it would be a personal cost to people of my generation who were born and raised in the world you're talking about, and certainly in the generations after that who also had the trappings of such things as the internet and smartphones and all of the other things most of us take for granted everyday.

There are far too many distractions in 2019 as there were compared to the 60's and 70's. People consume an ungodly amount of information on a daily basis, and I would imagine that even though their addicted to doing so at this point that the act of doing so in itself is exhausting. How many people do you know that grab that phone first thing when they wake up and waste hours of their day with it? I don't have a phone, but I'd be lying if I didn't admit that I do it with a computer.

"Caring" was something to do back when there wasn't nearly as much to do. You're talking about a time that even predates the Atari age. Even adults that don't spend an unhealthy time playing video games on a daily basis today have Netflix binge-watching, fantasy football and over 100 channels on their cable sets to vie for their attention and time.

A lot of this free time to waste on the bullshit that we choose to waste it on because we find it enjoyable would not be possible without the system that has been designed for us by the sociopaths on top.

I'm not arguing that the system isn't completely screwed up or that it's right. I'm just saying that if you actually told people what they'd have to give up to take power back from the elites, and the amount of work and responsibility that they'd have to put on themselves to make a better world where things were much less centralized and not just a few clicks away at any point in time, I don't see you selling it to enough people to make any difference at all.

On the contrary, I see Amazon trucks all over the place today. Not only are they going to put places like WalMart and other big box stores out of business or force them to completely change the way they do their own businesses, but they're likely going to absorb UPS and FedEx who had grown much larger than the Post Office BECAUSE of online purchases from places like Amazon in the first place.

The sociopaths on top didn't just get to where they are because they are sociopaths. A large part of their power came from the rest of us bottom feeders that happily obliged them.

The 60's and 70's represented something great if you're looking at it with rose tinted glasses, but at the end of the day far too many of those hippies sold out and became the Neo-Liberal corporatists of today, and they sold the rest of us out while we were too busy enjoying everything and selling ourselves out at the same time.

I don't mean to be Debbie Downer here, but there's no way you're going to reverse anything by getting enough people to give a shit again. People did make that decision on their own, alongside of the manipulations of the elites.

The problem now is overpopulation. Plain and simple. There's just 3 or 4 billion too many people on the planet and the equilibrium is all out of wack. Maybe 4 or 5 billion too many.

Maybe if we were better as a species, it would be possible to sustain life with 7.5 Billion people on the planet. Not with the path we collectively chose to go down though.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, November 16, 2019 2:11 AM

I've thought a lot about this issue, for a very long time.

It's why one of my favorite scenes of all time from any movie was the end of Escape from LA.

It would take something like this happening to force everyone to care again.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, November 16, 2019 9:57 AM