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Originally posted by reaverfan:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Union postal worker dumped mail, including ballots, in multiple dumpsters.


https://www.independentsentinel.com/mail-carrier-arrested-after-random
-man-finds-dumped-ballots-other-mail/ Republican tossing out ballots from a largely Democratic area.

Trumptarded. Throw the book at him.

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Originally posted by reaverfan:
I'm not worried about some trumptard mailman throwing away my vote.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Good luck. I hope it gets counted.

I also hope you have verified that there is a way to check that it gets counted before you committed yourself to the mail in.

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Originally posted by captaincrunch:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Good luck. I hope it gets counted.

I also hope you have verified that there is a way to check that it gets counted before you committed yourself to the mail in.

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Online vote tracking, .gov website. I assume the same is available in most states and for in person voting as well - not sure. I don't recall being able to check in the past.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I'm trying to pose some serious questions here that everyone should be thinking about, so I did my best to remove any shit-posting about cheating, while also not ignoring the fact that it can very well happen.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

I won't say that there was or wasn't a way to do it in the past either, because I've never actually looked into it before.

I can't say if there is now though either.

Granted, I will admit that I don't watch Legacy Media from either side outside of clips and analysis from other people, but I'm not exactly a low info person compared to the average person when it comes to these things.

That being said, with mail in voting being something I hear about practically every day, I haven't once ever seen any directions given about how one would go about verifying that their vote is counted, whether in person or by mail.

This should be concerning to everyone.

It's no secret that whether or not people on either side believe that there will be cheating with the new mail in ballots on a personal level, the general consensus seems to be that Republicans are against it and Democrats are for it. And Democrats seem to believe that it will positively impact their side while it will negatively impact Republicans. So whether or not Democrats, on a personal level, believe that this benefits their side either through cheating or through minimizing voter disenfranchisement, they are going to be putting a disproportionate amount of trust in a largely untested system that requires a lot of "human" input from start to finish, and a lot of plausible scenarios where votes can be screwed up either on accident or on purpose.

I wouldn't just assume that it's going to be legit. People should know whether or not their vote counts.

But how would you do that legitimately and also in a timely fashion? If your state and federal income tax online check for mail in taxes are any indication, especially in 2020, you might not even be able to verify that your vote was counted until 6 months after the election.

That's how long it was taking Illinois to verify that you had mailed in your taxes this year.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

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Originally posted by reaverfan:
I'm not worried about some trumptard mailman throwing away my vote.

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Just curious...

Why not?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by captaincrunch:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I'm trying to pose some serious questions here that everyone should be thinking about, so I did my best to remove any shit-posting about cheating, while also not ignoring the fact that it can very well happen.

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Duly noted and appreciated.

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Strange having an adult conversation on these boards for once, huh?

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Checking one's registration online to see if you are current, or just registering online in my state, you will see constant reminders for Track Your Vote. It's easy, doesn't take more than 4 identifiers (last 4 of social, etc). Plus, flyers in the mail from (mostly Dem) candidates remind people as well. Plenty of people won't track their vote, but plenty will.

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I'll have to check to see if you can do that in my state. That should be very easy to do, especially if you do it in person on the electronic machines.

But like I said about the mail though... Illinois wasn't even showing they'd received taxes from their citizens for four to five months, and were taking up to six months to even process them if they were mailed. The stated reason was Covid, but even in regular years that system is always slow. Here in Indiana, even with the beer bug, the online system showed they got mine quicker than the FED did, which was under two weeks for both of them.

This is probably going to be a big problem in some states and not a very big problem in others.

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No mater which way you vote, it's a leap of faith that it will be counted. EVERY SINGLE STEP IS FUNGABLE.

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True.

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That's precisely the reason Republicans have already done so many things to affect the vote in their favor. Including questioning it over and over by saying there will be cheating with mail in.

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I mean, come on man. We've been hearing from Democrats and the Legacy Media for 4 years now that Republicans cheated, and even had the help of Putin. The loss of faith in our democratic process is due to rhetoric from both sides, and the Dems were doing it before we were even talking about mail in.

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They know that more Dems will vote by mail because Dems don't believe Trump's c19 beliefs, and would rather avoid crowds.

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I'm sorry, but I just can't buy this line of thinking no matter how many times it is repeated. Nobody can tell me that Democrats have stayed inside their house like agoraphobics for the last six months. I don't see what the huge deal about voting in person is when you regularly go out to buy groceries. I don't even understand why this is a partisan issue, to be honest.

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It seems to get overlooked (ignored) by Trump supporters that his own election committee found NO fraud by mail in voting - or any voting for that matter - in 2016. I haven't seen Trump's DOJ bring any evidence of any this election. 9 ballots supposedly with his name on them, in a trash can in PA? That was shot down. 9? Really?

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But there has been quite a few legitimate stories of voter fraud in local elections just in the 2 years since the mid-terms. The NAACP had even stepped in to call the election a fraud, and you know they weren't doing that on behalf of Republicans.

I just don't understand how anybody can say with a straight face that mail in ballots that require no ID or proof that the person filling it out is even who they say they are doesn't open the entire process up to a lot more cheating.

And as I've stated before, if it's easier to cheat, nobody should automatically assume that Democrats will be better at it than Republicans are. This could be the worst thing to ever happen to our election process in our entire lives.

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Look at Texas, where the Rep governor has reduced the number of drop off boxes available to one per county - no matter the population. A county with 250 people gets one drop off box for mail ins just like the one with 7 million. How long is that line going to be? How many people (Dems) will bail on voting? What could possibly the rational for making it harder for all citizens to use mail in drop off? (It's a trick question) Other states are trying to adopt the same strategy. Why? (Again, trick).

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I honestly can't say. I know the answer you want me to give. But it has been brought up that drop boxes were already being removed many years back. While the Post Office isn't dead and largely is subsidized by bulk mail and/or junk mail these days, people just aren't sending letters anymore. When's the last time you've seen a phone booth? We're not there with mail yet, but we're really not that far off. Most of the mail that comes to people's doors these days are part of a bulk mail process that side steps the drop boxes completely.

I'm not saying that something fishy isn't going on now, but I'm also hesitant to assume that this is what it's all about too. You're talking to a guy who has now been laid off from 5 different companies in his life due to downsizing and cutting costs. I'm sure that even though it's government funded, the Post Office has also seen its share of downsizing due to the fact that most people don't send each other letters anymore, and automation and bulk sorting have taken up a bulk of the postal system's job in this modern era.

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Rep play offense on this stuff, while Dems play defense, when there shouldn't be either.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Strange having an adult conversation on these boards for once, huh?

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Checking one's registration online to see if you are current, or just registering online in my state, you will see constant reminders for Track Your Vote. It's easy, doesn't take more than 4 identifiers (last 4 of social, etc). Plus, flyers in the mail from (mostly Dem) candidates remind people as well. Plenty of people won't track their vote, but plenty will.

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I'll have to check to see if you can do that in my state. That should be very easy to do, especially if you do it in person on the electronic machines.

But like I said about the mail though... Illinois wasn't even showing they'd received taxes from their citizens for four to five months, and were taking up to six months to even process them if they were mailed. The stated reason was Covid, but even in regular years that system is always slow. Here in Indiana, even with the beer bug, the online system showed they got mine quicker than the FED did, which was under two weeks for both of them.

This is probably going to be a big problem in some states and not a very big problem in others.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

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That's precisely the reason Republicans have already done so many things to affect the vote in their favor. Including questioning it over and over by saying there will be cheating with mail in.

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I mean, come on man. We've been hearing from Democrats and the Legacy Media for 4 years now that Republicans cheated, and even had the help of Putin. The loss of faith in our democratic process is due to rhetoric from both sides, and the Dems were doing it before we were even talking about mail in.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

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They know that more Dems will vote by mail because Dems don't believe Trump's c19 beliefs, and would rather avoid crowds.

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I'm sorry, but I just can't buy this line of thinking no matter how many times it is repeated. Nobody can tell me that Democrats have stayed inside their house like agoraphobics for the last six months. I don't see what the huge deal about voting in person is when you regularly go out to buy groceries. I don't even understand why this is a partisan issue, to be honest.

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It seems to get overlooked (ignored) by Trump supporters that his own election committee found NO fraud by mail in voting - or any voting for that matter - in 2016. I haven't seen Trump's DOJ bring any evidence of any this election. 9 ballots supposedly with his name on them, in a trash can in PA? That was shot down. 9? Really?

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
But there has been quite a few legitimate stories of voter fraud in local elections just in the 2 years since the mid-terms. The NAACP had even stepped in to call the election a fraud, and you know they weren't doing that on behalf of Republicans.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I just don't understand how anybody can say with a straight face that mail in ballots that require no ID or proof that the person filling it out is even who they say they are doesn't open the entire process up to a lot more cheating.

And as I've stated before, if it's easier to cheat, nobody should automatically assume that Democrats will be better at it than Republicans are. This could be the worst thing to ever happen to our election process in our entire lives.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

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Look at Texas, where the Rep governor has reduced the number of drop off boxes available to one per county - no matter the population. A county with 250 people gets one drop off box for mail ins just like the one with 7 million. How long is that line going to be? How many people (Dems) will bail on voting? What could possibly the rational for making it harder for all citizens to use mail in drop off? (It's a trick question) Other states are trying to adopt the same strategy. Why? (Again, trick).

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I honestly can't say. I know the answer you want me to give. But it has been brought up that drop boxes were already being removed many years back. While the Post Office isn't dead and largely is subsidized by bulk mail and/or junk mail these days, people just aren't sending letters anymore. When's the last time you've seen a phone booth? We're not there with mail yet, but we're really not that far off. Most of the mail that comes to people's doors these days are part of a bulk mail process that side steps the drop boxes completely.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I'm not saying that something fishy isn't going on now, but I'm also hesitant to assume that this is what it's all about too. You're talking to a guy who has now been laid off from 5 different companies in his life due to downsizing and cutting costs. I'm sure that even though it's government funded, the Post Office has also seen its share of downsizing due to the fact that most people don't send each other letters anymore, and automation and bulk sorting have taken up a bulk of the postal system's job in this modern era.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

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Rep play offense on this stuff, while Dems play defense, when there shouldn't be either.

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There shouldn't be.

But I don't agree that one side is attacking and the other side is defending. Both sides are guilty of flinging the poop.

Thanks for having a real convo. Rare. Appreciated.

Actually looking forward to picking this up again if you choose to reply to it.

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Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Any time

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

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Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Any time

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I will reply to this, but when I have the time to give a legitimate reply. Long day today, and I've got to get to sleep at a reasonable hour to help my buddy out tomorrow, so I don't want to just rush a quick reply.

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Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Mail in votes are the first ones counted in my state according to the board of elections. Confirming your taxes is not time sensitive like the election, so I would not necessarily connect the 2 or say they are the same.

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Not time sensitive. Tell that to anybody waiting for that big tax return.

I wouldn't know about that. I claim enough dependents up front that I hardly ever get more than a few hundred bucks in state and FED taxes. I keep telling other people to do that and stop giving the government a free loan every year, but most people have gotten used to that big tax return and don't want to make the change. Maybe people in Illinois will stop doing that after how long it took to get the returns this year?

As for verification in my state...

There was no expansion of mail-in ballots in Indiana in 2020. Just the absentee system that was already in place that requires you to request a ballot ahead of time, requiring one of these 11 excuses:

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Who can vote by mail in Indiana

There are currently 11 accepted excuses for voting by mail in Indiana. They are:

The voter has a "reasonable expectation" that they will be out of county for the entire time polls are open on Election Day
The voter has disability
The voter is 65 years old or older
The voter has official election duties outside of their voting precinct
The voter is scheduled to work during the entire time the polls are open
The voter will be "confined due to illness or injury" or caring for someone who is confined as such for the entire time the polls are open
The voter is prevented from voting due to a religious discipline or holiday on Election Day
The voter participates in the state's address confidentiality program
The voter is a member of the military or a public safety officer
The voter is considered a "serious sex offender" as defined by state statute
The voter does not have access to transportation to the polls

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That being said, you are able to later verify that the clerk received it at the same website which you can request it.

Seems like a pretty great system to me. No reason everybody else shouldn't follow that model, IMO.

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He didn't have to do anything to get Putin's help! A wink and a nod maybe?
Ask yourself a few questions and try to be as objective as you can:

1. Do you think Putin had a preference over who won between Hillary and Trump?
2. Do you think Trump lied about having business interests in Russia?
3. Do you think Trump wouldn't see Russia as a business opportunity?
4. Do you think Putin wouldn't try and f*ck with our election?
5. Did you know of Trump's campaign manager's work in Russia?

start with those - if your answers don't make you curious about deeper ties with Russia then you aren't being tough enough or observant enough about who Trump is and what he would do.

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The problem is that you can say any of those things about Hillary too. She was selling uranium to Russia before she ran in 2016. Joe Biden's drug addict son went from being unemployed to making $80,000 a month on the board of a Ukraine company that was under investigation by the Ukraine AG that Obama wanted removed before they'd release $2 Billion dollars to them.

At the end of the day, we don't know what's going on over there, and all we really have "informing" us is Editorialization Firms disguising themselves as "News" outlets. There is no objective journalism anymore.

My stance on the issues don't mean that I'm not being honest or observant. I just happen to disagree with you about what is happening and the difference in severity levels from either side.

All I know is that Trump is the guy that the Legacy Media, the Democrats, the NeoCons, Big Pharma and basically any garbage human being on the planet didn't want to win in 2016 and are ready to burn the world to the ground to make sure he doesn't win in 2020. He's not even a Republican.

I suggest that maybe you think a little more about this yourself as well.

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I can't imagine how you can't see the obvious. Trump says there's nothing to fear from Covid so Trump supporters listen to him and go out and mingle. While Democrats know he's a lying sack of sh*t, and know there's actually something to the science. I never go into a grocery store - why? And it's not for fear of Covid as much as I don't trust the Karen's and Kevin's out there. PLUS - I order online and in get's dropped in my trunk - I save time. Also, in the same vein, why the f*ck would you want to kill a day standing in line when it took me ten minutes to drop the ballot off?

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I've never once had that problem voting. I go early almost all the time, and usually I'm in and out in 10 minutes. Once when I had to go around lunch time it might have been 20 minutes.

Where I live and shop, I can guaranty you that there are a lot of Democrat voters and the grocery and hardware stores are always full. Again, the internet has made it easier than ever to request an absentee ballot that is tied to your personal information. There was nothing wrong with that system.

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I'd love to see those and review them - links if you got 'em.

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I've posted this before, but when everybody is just arguing all the time nobody ever reads any links.

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/politics/nj-naacp-leader-calls-for-pat
erson-mail-in-vote-to-be-canceled-amid-fraud-claims/2435162/

"Two more candidates, including one of the race winners, joined the call for a recount and a criminal investigation"

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I wish I still had my ballot so I could go over the safe guards. You would have to know the details for a dead egistered voter to be able to fill out a mail in ballot for them that would be counted, and you could do the same with in person if you knew that info. And that just gets you a single vote.

It would be a lot easier for hackers to rack up thousands of votes by hacking machines. Just add a couple characters to the end of names and Sorry! this is an illegal ballot! 10s of thousands of votes get declined. Do any research - Russian hackers are the most respected in the hacking community. Check out the publication 2600 sometime - great read. Learn how to hack your local Best Buy even. Probably no longer - the world has gotten better at security.

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My concerns with the cheating are more about ballot harvesting. Somebody going door to door badgering people who likely otherwise wouldn't have voted, ending the day with a huge stack of ballots if they display any people skills, then sipping on some bottled wine for a few hours that night while removing any ballots they don't agree with before dropping them off.

There's no system in place keeping this from happening. And there's no reason to suspect that Democrats would be better at it than Republicans are. Especially if Republicans end up feeling like the mail in ballots steal the 2020 election. We've just opened up the entire election process to unprecedented levels of fraud and it might take a long time for the bureaucracy to figure out a fix for it.

It's mostly Democrat ran states that are doing the mail in right now. This, at some level, has to be because the leadership believes that if there is cheating it will be a net benefit to them. There's no chance they actually believe that there isn't any chance of cheating.

But what happens when Republicans do it too (as they already have started doing), and how incentivized will they be to put a stop to it when they realize the can of worms they opened?

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I'm not talking about mailboxes, I'm talking about the designated locked boxes to drop your mail in vote into - it's specifically secured and made for mail in voting. It's what I used and what is being reduced. I have not seen even a bad lie as to why they are doing that.

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I've never even seen one of these. This sounds like a state problem.

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In terms of mailboxes and sorters being removed: you gotta think the timing is suspicious af. DaJoy is a huge Trump supporter - hard not to assume something is fishy. Who benefits?

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That's because, again, everybody seems to think that if cheating occurs that it's going to be the Democrats and they're going to be better at it. I'd say America benefits by preventing mail in voting.


Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
That's because, again, everybody seems to think that if cheating occurs that it's going to be the Democrats and they're going to be better at it.

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