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Originally posted by G:
I use to program in very, very basic code, html, and that was kind of a revelation for me. I've always felt that we each have our own set of human code - apart from our dna - mental source code.

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Originally posted by Oonjerah:
Preachin' to the choir, Sig?

Most of the people who read & post on this board are aware & responsible.
I, personally, am not denying the problems and am not driving "us" over
a cliff. Indeed, I'm the one who says, "Yeah, we're in trouble. Let's talk
solutions."

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
"In Signym's case, I'm curious why Signym goes from one Large event to another and tries to explain them very diligently and with some great deal of effort. It's as if she HAS to explain them. Why?"

Signy and I work in the same (very small) scientific field. Professionally, she's the one whose ideas last for 20 years (or more).

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Originally posted by G:
I love this giant logic gap:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

G, this is a topic that I find irrelevant, so much so that I will probably not post more than two or three posts on the point, and only just as far as I think I need to to make my point clear, whether your grok it or not.

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And:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
But when presented with uncomfortable observations, most people not only fail to think about and discuss them, they actively retreat.

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"I will probably post no more than 2 or 3 posts on the point..." and "when presented with uncomfortable observations, most people not only fail to think about and discuss them, they actively retreat..."

That's so you.

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My goodness, could I be any more pointed with these posts over the past few days? Gig is up, River.

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"I will probably post no more than 2 or 3 posts on the point..." and "when presented with uncomfortable observations, most people not only fail to think about and discuss them, they actively retreat..." -signy

That's so you.- G/MAL4

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I'm not preaching to the choir. I guess what I'm trying to do is figure out, hopefully with your help, as to whether or not there is a SYSTEMIC solution, because the problem (as I see it) is system-driven.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
So, back to the topic - Signy, Magons - FWIW a couple of years ago I spent DAYS searching the internet for California's water budget. You'd think this would be a well-tracked topic - how much rain falls, how much snow falls, how much goes into rivers, lakes, groundwater, evaporation - how much gets used and what does it get used for. I found a single document that covered that topic, but it may already be out of date. Of the precipitation that falls, 50% is 'allowed' to be 'wasted' (their words, I thought them very peculiar, as if maintaining the environment was a 'waste' of water resources). Of ALL the water used for human purposes in California - the 50% of precipitation that gets used, plus imported water, plus ground water - 80% goes to agriculture. 20% is 'everything else'.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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I think it's every citizen's responsibility to question the messenger, don't you?

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No, not in order to avoid the message.

And, no, I don't agree that the problem is that our infrastructure is overbuilt. If our infrastructure was even adequate, we would have a significant multi-year water surplus, with many possible sources to draw from. The problem is that we always seem to expand consumption to exceed infrastructure, no matter WHAT we build.

So, what should we DO?

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Only a good, widespread, drenching rainfall can.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Only a good, widespread, drenching rainfall can.


SIX: The problem is when you get that you get mudslides everywhere and a different hazardous situation.
I don't know what you guys did over there, but I don't think California is very viable anymore.

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There still are HUGE mountain ranges and Lakes and mountain peaks of Snow California, it should not be impossible to collect water for the State

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Back in my day, if you weren't black and you were walking around in the black areas without a damn good reason, you might not have walked out of them. And at the same time, the white cops kept black people out of the white areas.

It sure was a lot easier to figure out who was hanging around in places they didn't belong in 1985 than it is in 2025.


Call me a racist. Call me whatever you want. But I know a whole lot of black people who feel the same way about things as I do.


Instead of pulling everyone down to the poorest levels and mixing us all up when nobody wants to be either poor or mixed up, money would have been far better spent building up black communities and schools to the standard of white communities and schools. It's what should have been done in the first place.

But if we did that over the last 40 years instead of what we had done, the Democrats wouldn't have been able to use the angry "black community" as a cudgel for every horrible thing they've done to weaken our country and our people for the last 4 fuckin' decades.

We're the stupidest and unhealthiest of all of the 1st world nations. The most wealth inequality in the developed world. The least positive outlook for the future. The least faith in their own institutions. The lowest level of happiness. Bottom of every measurable list. This experiment was a resounding failure.


There is an instinctual part of every single one of us that is tribal. Just because the Media and Pop Culture tells you otherwise in 2025, there's no reason to believe that instinctual need isn't still an imperative.

Everything around you when you go outside your house is manufactured and make believe. The only reason it exists is because it cost the "most powerful nation on earth" $36.3 Trillion worth of debt beyond whatever surplus money they started with when they sold us out to trans-national interests and decided it was time to drive our country off a fucking cliff.


According to the national debt clock in 2025, this illusory world that we've created around us now costs the US Taxpayer around $50,000 per second to maintain.

When the money stops flowing and the lights go out, there are a lot of monsters lurking in the dark just waiting to pounce.

How much longer do you think they're going to keep all those lights on?

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"I don't find this stuff amusing anymore." ~Paul Simon

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
It isn't impossible. In fact, that's where we get a lot of our summer water from. And so far, this year's snowpack is running either ahead of average or average.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:


So. What's your point, JAYNZE?

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Originally posted by second:
Only 6ix is both articulate and foolish enough to proclaim he is frightened of everything. Most Trumptards pretend they are brave and capable people, but they are not. 6ix doesn't pretend. He proudly lets the world know who he is:

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The below isn't fear. It's living in reality. One that you're ill prepared for. Just like everyone in L.A. was unprepared for last week.

And I'll repost the quote because it should be repeated...

Quote:

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Back in my day, if you weren't black and you were walking around in the black areas without a damn good reason, you might not have walked out of them. And at the same time, the white cops kept black people out of the white areas.

It sure was a lot easier to figure out who was hanging around in places they didn't belong in 1985 than it is in 2025.


Call me a racist. Call me whatever you want. But I know a whole lot of black people who feel the same way about things as I do.


Instead of pulling everyone down to the poorest levels and mixing us all up when nobody wants to be either poor or mixed up, money would have been far better spent building up black communities and schools to the standard of white communities and schools. It's what should have been done in the first place.

But if we did that over the last 40 years instead of what we had done, the Democrats wouldn't have been able to use the angry "black community" as a cudgel for every horrible thing they've done to weaken our country and our people for the last 4 fuckin' decades.

We're the stupidest and unhealthiest of all of the 1st world nations. The most wealth inequality in the developed world. The least positive outlook for the future. The least faith in their own institutions. The lowest level of happiness. Bottom of every measurable list. This experiment was a resounding failure.


There is an instinctual part of every single one of us that is tribal. Just because the Media and Pop Culture tells you otherwise in 2025, there's no reason to believe that instinctual need isn't still an imperative.

Everything around you when you go outside your house is manufactured and make believe. The only reason it exists is because it cost the "most powerful nation on earth" $36.3 Trillion worth of debt beyond whatever surplus money they started with when they sold us out to trans-national interests and decided it was time to drive our country off a fucking cliff.


According to the national debt clock in 2025, this illusory world that we've created around us now costs the US Taxpayer around $50,000 per second to maintain.

When the money stops flowing and the lights go out, there are a lot of monsters lurking in the dark just waiting to pounce.

How much longer do you think they're going to keep all those lights on?

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"I don't find this stuff amusing anymore." ~Paul Simon

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I like this quote from 6ix: "How much longer do you think they're going to keep all those lights on?" The "they" is me. 6ix, I'm the guy who sells the natural gas to keep the lights on. I'm not letting fearful, lazy, stupid Trumptards cause the collapse of America. Trumptards and Trump talk about society failing because their lives do NOT keep it running. They know they are not capable of keeping anything running when adversity hits.

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"They" is not you. Even if you owned a business, which you don't, "They" is not you.

"They" is never you.




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"I don't find this stuff amusing anymore." ~Paul Simon

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‘Who would have thought? We’ve all had a really big lesson… that our experience of reality can change in a moment,’ he said of the tragedy.

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Fire fighters were expected to use water, the imbecile on water a guy left in command of the city knew nothing

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while Mayor partying in Africa,

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CA Lakes and Rivers dry

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water flows yet [where? To who??] Scorched for years while other water allowed flow out to sea

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SECOND: I like this quote from 6ix: "How much longer do you think they're going to keep all those lights on?" The "they" is me. 6ix, I'm the guy who sells the natural gas to keep the lights on. I'm not letting fearful, lazy, stupid Trumptards cause the collapse of America. Trumptards and Trump talk about society failing because their lives do NOT keep it running. They know they are not capable of keeping anything running when adversity hits.

SIX: "They" is not you. Even if you owned a business, which you don't, "They" is not you.
"They" is never you.

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To be a little meta about the whole thing ...

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Gavin Newsom, smiling and wiggle dancing while talking about the fires?

That's just creepy.

*****

CA has a LONG history of fires and it's not bc of "Democrats".

POOR/NO FOREST MANAGEMENT
And it's not California that's the problem!

Of the 33 million acres of forested land, approx 57% of CA forested land is under FEDERAL management.
Another 24% are non-corporate privately owned, and 90%+ of those are under 500 acres. (Probably people who own homes or lots up in the mountains).

About 16% is owned by corporations or various business or financial interests (logging, REITS, etc)

ONLY 3% IS OWNED BY THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA.

Federal forest (mis)management lurched from Smokey the Bear "stop every forest fire", which allowed an unnatural accumulation of fuel, to "let it burn" (1972-1988) to -currently- fire prevention but only where it impacts homes, businesses, and infrastructure. And they're doing a piss-poor job of even that.

IF OUR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WAS TRULY INTERESTED IN CLIMATE CHANGE, THEY WOULD IMMEDIATELY START RAMPING UP FUNDING FOR WILDLAND MANAGEMENT. IT SHOULD BE AT LEAST 10X WHAT IT IS NOW.


POOR LAND USE PLANNING.

People just LOVE to nestle their homes among the trees. BUT SERIOUSLY, FOLKS ... IN NARROW BRUSH AND TREE COVERED CANYONS IN SO CAL??

'Nuff said.

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger


AMERICANS SUPPORT AMERICA

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SIGNY
Gavin Newsom, smiling and wiggle dancing while talking about the fires?

That's just creepy.

*****

CA has a LONG history of fires and it's not bc of "Democrats".

POOR/NO FOREST MANAGEMENT
And it's not California that's the problem!

Of the 33 million acres of forested land, approx 57% of CA forested land is under FEDERAL management.
Another 24% are non-corporate privately owned, and 90%+ of those are under 500 acres. (Probably people who own homes or lots up in the mountains).

About 16% is owned by corporations or various business or financial interests (logging, REITS, etc)

ONLY 3% IS OWNED BY THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA.

Federal forest (mis)management lurched from Smokey the Bear "stop every forest fire", which allowed an unnatural accumulation of fuel, to "let it burn" (1972-1988) to -currently- fire prevention but only where it impacts homes, businesses, and infrastructure. And they're doing a piss-poor job of even that.

IF OUR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WAS TRULY INTERESTED IN CLIMATE CHANGE, THEY WOULD IMMEDIATELY START RAMPING UP FUNDING FOR WILDLAND MANAGEMENT. IT SHOULD BE AT LEAST 10X WHAT IT IS NOW.


POOR LAND USE PLANNING.

People just LOVE to nestle their homes among the trees. BUT SERIOUSLY, FOLKS ... IN NARROW BRUSH AND TREE COVERED CANYONS IN SO CAL??

'Nuff said.


SIX: Bullshit.

The amount of money that California gets from the Federal government dwarfs the money that every other state gets, and you as a citizen of California pay more taxes than anybody in the other 49 states.

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SIX: Yet the state is completely bankrupt, hiring every idiot they can find with a vagina and melanin in their skin, running chronic deficits and blowing the budget on illegal aliens and unattainable energy goals.

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If the Federal Government is in charge of keeping up those forests,

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then that should have been Gavin Newsom's reply to Trump when he told Newsom he needed to clean that shit up 6 years ago.

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I think your real problem is that you don't have any politicians or bureaucracy in California who knows who's job it is to do anything.

Bottom line, the fact that this hasn't been done in decades is gross negligence on the part of the Californian government either way.

This is 100% California's fault.

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"I don't find this stuff amusing anymore." ~Paul Simon

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Quote:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:

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SIGNY
Gavin Newsom, smiling and wiggle dancing while talking about the fires?

That's just creepy.

*****

CA has a LONG history of fires and it's not bc of "Democrats".

POOR/NO FOREST MANAGEMENT
And it's not California that's the problem!

Of the 33 million acres of forested land, approx 57% of CA forested land is under FEDERAL management.
Another 24% are non-corporate privately owned, and 90%+ of those are under 500 acres. (Probably people who own homes or lots up in the mountains).

About 16% is owned by corporations or various business or financial interests (logging, REITS, etc)

ONLY 3% IS OWNED BY THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA.

Federal forest (mis)management lurched from Smokey the Bear "stop every forest fire", which allowed an unnatural accumulation of fuel, to "let it burn" (1972-1988) to -currently- fire prevention but only where it impacts homes, businesses, and infrastructure. And they're doing a piss-poor job of even that.

IF OUR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WAS TRULY INTERESTED IN CLIMATE CHANGE, THEY WOULD IMMEDIATELY START RAMPING UP FUNDING FOR WILDLAND MANAGEMENT. IT SHOULD BE AT LEAST 10X WHAT IT IS NOW.


POOR LAND USE PLANNING.

People just LOVE to nestle their homes among the trees. BUT SERIOUSLY, FOLKS ... IN NARROW BRUSH AND TREE COVERED CANYONS IN SO CAL??

'Nuff said.


SIX: Bullshit.

The amount of money that California gets from the Federal government dwarfs the money that every other state gets, and you as a citizen of California pay more taxes than anybody in the other 49 states.

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Taxes we pay to THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT (among other places.)

California (state) is the SECOND LEAST dependent on the Federal government, and California residents are the fourth-least dependent.

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INDIANA, FWIW, is about tge middle if the pack when it comes to state dependency, but 9th when it comes to individual dependency. Must be all that medical assistance https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-g
overnment/2700

And FWIW, Alaska, that state of rugged conservative individuals, is FIRST for state dependency, and Texas is 10th.

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SIX: Yet the state is completely bankrupt, hiring every idiot they can find with a vagina and melanin in their skin, running chronic deficits and blowing the budget on illegal aliens and unattainable energy goals.

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Well. Let's start with our chief idiot, Gavin Newsom, who is a white hetero male.

You don't need to be female or dark skinned to be an idiot.

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But I agree with you about the energy goals and illegal aliens.
Whatever happened to common sense?

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If the Federal Government is in charge of keeping up those forests,

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It is ...

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then that should have been Gavin Newsom's reply to Trump when he told Newsom he needed to clean that shit up 6 years ago.

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links please.

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President Donald Trump on Thursday blamed California for its raging wildfires and threatened to withhold federal money, reprising his attacks from previous rounds of catastrophic blazes.

“I see again the forest fires are starting,” he said at a rally in swing-state Pennsylvania. “They’re starting again in California. I said, you gotta clean your floors, you gotta clean your forests — there are many, many years of leaves and broken trees and they’re like, like, so flammable, you touch them and it goes up.”

“Maybe we’re just going to have to make them pay for it because they don’t listen to us,” he added.

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Quote:

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I think your real problem is that you don't have any politicians or bureaucracy in California who knows who's job it is to do anything.

Bottom line, the fact that this hasn't been done in decades is gross negligence on the part of the Californian government either way.

This is 100% California's fault.

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Bullshit.

California can't MAKE the Federal govt change policy. You should hsve seen the knock-down drag-out fight CA had with the Army Corps of Engineers over trees growing on levees. And that was just a small issue over much fewer acres.

I agree that the CA government and legislature does A LOT of stupid things and wastes a CRAP TON of money.

Zero carbon??
Sanctuary state??
Releasing inmates from jail???
Reparations???

It's head-bangingly stupid. But forest fires isn't one of those stupid things.

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Quote:

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SIGNY
Gavin Newsom, smiling and wiggle dancing while talking about the fires?
That's just creepy.

*****

CA has a LONG history of fires and it's not bc of "Democrats".
POOR/NO FOREST MANAGEMENT
And it's not California that's the problem!
Of the 33 million acres of forested land, approx 57% of CA forested land is under FEDERAL management.
Another 24% are non-corporate privately owned, and 90%+ of those are under 500 acres. (Probably people who own homes or lots up in the mountains).
About 16% is owned by corporations or various business or financial interests (logging, REITS, etc)

ONLY 3% IS OWNED BY THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA.

Federal forest (mis)management lurched from Smokey the Bear "stop every forest fire", which allowed an unnatural accumulation of fuel, to "let it burn" (1972-1988) to -currently- fire prevention but only where it impacts homes, businesses, and infrastructure. And they're doing a piss-poor job of even that.
IF OUR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WAS TRULY INTERESTED IN CLIMATE CHANGE, THEY WOULD IMMEDIATELY START RAMPING UP FUNDING FOR WILDLAND MANAGEMENT. IT SHOULD BE AT LEAST 10X WHAT IT IS NOW.

POOR LAND USE PLANNING.
People just LOVE to nestle their homes among the trees. BUT SERIOUSLY, FOLKS ... IN NARROW BRUSH AND TREE COVERED CANYONS IN SO CAL??
'Nuff said.


SIX: Bullshit.
The amount of money that California gets from the Federal government dwarfs the money that every other state gets, and you as a citizen of California pay more taxes than anybody in the other 49 states.

SIGNY: Taxes we pay to THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT (among other places.)
California (state) is the SECOND LEAST dependent on the Federal government, and California residents are the fourth-least dependent.

SIX: CORRECTION: California WAS the second/forth least yada, yada, yada...

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INDIANA, FWIW, is about the middle if the pack when it comes to state dependency, but 9th when it comes to individual dependency. Must be all that medical assistance https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-g
overnment/2700
And FWIW, Alaska, that state of rugged conservative individuals, is FIRST for state dependency, and Texas is 10th.

SIX: According to wallethub.com . Okay. Whatever that means.

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SIX: Did you put them through MediaBiasFactCheck? Would they even have an entry over there?

I can take any statistics and make something look the way I want it to. I watch Second post make-believe graphs derived from cherry-picked stats from Kevin Drum every other day. I'm certainly not going to take anything as a fact because wallethub.com says that it's so.

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SIX: ETA: West Virgina papers don't appear to agree much with wallethub...

The Parkersburg News and Sentinel: Biases: WalletHub ranking ignores reality
https://www.newsandsentinel.com/opinion/editorials/2018/06/biases-wall
ethub-ranking-ignores-reality/

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SIX: Yet the state is completely bankrupt, hiring every idiot they can find with a vagina and melanin in their skin, running chronic deficits and blowing the budget on illegal aliens and unattainable energy goals.

SIGNY: Lell. Let's start with our chief idiot, Gavin Newsom, who is a white hetero male.
You don't need to be female or dark skinned to be an idiot.

SIX: I'm not arguing you at all.
People always mistake my pragmatism as racism or sexism instead of the reality that it is.
. . .
This is NOT me Taking a Dig at minorities and women.
This is me shitting all over the California-Led Democrat fucking poison that always manages to find a way to spread across the country.
"As goes California, so goes the Nation" isn't just a witty phrase. It's a nightmare of a truth.
You keep voting in people that ruin your state, and they appoint fucking idiots that shouldn't be trusted to be greeters at walmart to run critical infrastructure because they came in with some bullshit Liberal Arts college degree in Gender Studies along with the right skin tone and genitalia to check off all the boxes. And then to make matters worse, there is nobody left anywhere to train any of these diversity hires that are in way over their heads because anybody who knew how stuff works either retired, were laid off, or were never invited back after Covid because they were being replaced by diversity hires in the year that only 6% of new hires in the country were white males (2021). Your state is BEYOND completely incompetent and irredeemably corrupt and nobody knows what the fuck they're doing.
We're just witnessing the worst consequences that California has inflicted upon itself so far.

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SIX: There is plenty more to come when this fire is done burning. Maybe the next emergency strikes before the embers even had a chance to die out.
If California were 1/10th as great as Californians have pretended it to be, there would be no forest fires raging today... a singular state, it's one of the largest economies in the world, dwarfing hundreds of nations, and they can't even keep water in the fucking hydrants because they're too busy going around telling everybody else how to live instead of doing their fucking jobs.

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Quote:

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SIGNY: But I agree with you about the energy goals and illegal aliens.
Whatever happened to common sense?

SIX: It got poisoned by California. If the Federal Government is in charge of keeping up those forests...

SIGNY: It is

SIX: ... then that should have been Gavin Newsom's reply to Trump when he told Newsom he needed to clean that shit up 6 years ago.

SIGNY: links please.

SIX; POLITICO (Updated: 08/21/2020)
Trump blames California for wildfires, tells state ‘you gotta clean your floors’
https://www.politico.com/states/california/story/2020/08/20/trump-blam
es-california-for-wildfires-tells-state-you-gotta-clean-your-floors-1311059

Quote:

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President Donald Trump on Thursday blamed California for its raging wildfires and threatened to withhold federal money, reprising his attacks from previous rounds of catastrophic blazes.

“I see again the forest fires are starting,” he said at a rally in swing-state Pennsylvania. “They’re starting again in California. I said, you gotta clean your floors, you gotta clean your forests — there are many, many years of leaves and broken trees and they’re like, like, so flammable, you touch them and it goes up.”

“Maybe we’re just going to have to make them pay for it because they don’t listen to us,” he added.

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Quote:

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CORRECTION, DON: No. They didn't listen to us. They didn't clean anything up. And we WILL be the ones paying for it.

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SIX I think your real problem is that you don't have any politicians or bureaucracy in California who knows who's job it is to do anything.
Bottom line, the fact that this hasn't been done in decades is gross negligence on the part of the Californian government either way.
This is 100% California's fault.

SIGNY; Bullshit.
California can't MAKE the Federal govt change policy. You should have seen the knock-down drag-out fight CA had with the Army Corps of Engineers over trees growing on levees. And that was just a small issue over much fewer acres.
I agree that the CA government and legislature does A LOT of stupid things and wastes a CRAP TON of money.
Zero carbon??
Sanctuary state??
Releasing inmates from jail???
Reparations???
It's head-bangingly stupid. But forest fires isn't one of those stupid things.

SIX: I don't know. Maybe when you look at that Politico article you'll change your mind.

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SIX: Your state legislature has crippled the state's ability to the point that the state is burning down. None of this was the Federal Government's fault.

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SIX: If your state needed money to help clean the shit up, maybe it should have asked for that instead of money for Pink Pussy Hats For Everyone or funding the 50th Gay Pride parade of the year, or whatever the fuck bullshit Liberal Agenda Causes your government pisses all the money away on every year.

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SIX: (Oh... and BTW... I wanted to offer a huge congratulations to all the college educated liberals who are directly responsible for this. Look at all of those acres you burned down and all of the wildlife that you murdered. Good job. Well done.)
And if people thought their homeowners insurance was expensive this year, just wait until next year after paying for this. That was already going to be getting a substantial bump from the hurricanes on the SE coast. FULLY EXPECT THE NEWS STORIES NEXT YEAR TALKING ABOUT HOW X% OF HOMEOWNERS NATIONWIDE ARE NOW UNABLE TO AFFORD THEIR SKY-HIGH HOMEOWNERS INSURANCE PREMIUMS AND THEIR HOUSES MIGHT BE TAKEN BACK BY THE BANK FOR NOT KEEPING THEM INSURED.
Remember that I said that, and remember that it wasn't Trump's fault when that bill comes due and the Legacy Media bashes Trump every single day for it as if it were.

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