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Democracies in Europe and their detractors in Washington have radically different understandings of why the continent depends on American military protection. Donald Trump and his aides constantly talk as if crafty Europeans have cynically manipulated the United States for decades, making Americans pay for their defense while Germany, France, and the like enjoy their lavish welfare states, early retirements, and carefree lives. “I fully share your loathing of European freeloading,” Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth told Vice President J. D. Vance in the Trump-administration Signal chat that accidentally included The Atlantic’s Jeffrey Goldberg. “It’s PATHETIC,” Hegseth added.

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European leaders, meanwhile, believe their countries have been dutifully following America’s direction on geopolitical matters for 80 years. Hundreds of millions of Europeans have completely subordinated their fate to the desires of the United States, which looks after them, protects them, and even thinks for them. Most Europeans now alive have known no other security arrangements. Contemplating the disappearance of NATO, the U.S.-led military alliance, is so unnerving for many in Europe, including many of the continent’s political leaders, that they seem incapable of thinking for themselves.

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But Europe will need to go beyond rhetoric. Europe has underfunded its own defense for more than 30 years. Military budgets on the continent started collapsing when the Cold War ended. Governments on the continent need to spend more on defense—in some cases twice as much. They must also use their money far more efficiently. European states don’t all need to make their own tanks or other armored personnel carriers. Rationalizing and consolidating production of arms and supplies will be a key long-term survival skill.

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

But let's hear you out...

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I didn't miss it.

I was trying not to vomit in my throat while reading it is all.

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"I don't find this stuff amusing anymore." ~Paul Simon

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
But Stalin has been dead for almost exactly 70 years.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_and_state_funeral_of_Joseph_Stal
in

What? Europeans are afraid of a dead man?

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Yeah. I forgot about Stalin.

The Democratic Party's role model.

Shut the fuck up, dummy.

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Originally posted by second:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
But Stalin has been dead for almost exactly 70 years.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_and_state_funeral_of_Joseph_Stal
in

What? Europeans are afraid of a dead man?

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But Putin has murdered Ukrainians and stolen their lands just this week. Europeans living adjacent to Putin know they can be murdered and their lands stolen by Putin, too, since Stalin did it and Putin is doing it just across a national border.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

You keep pushing the fiction that big bad Russia is conquering Ukraine out of sheer maliciousness. But even the NYT acknowledges, finally, that this was a coalition war planned to regime change Russia and split it from China.

Yanno, in their hubris, neocons really believed ... as you still do, SECOND, despite all evidence ... that there would be a short, pro-forma war that would rationalize freezing Russian assets, kicking the RCB off SWIFT, and collapsing the Russian government. Nobody imagined it would lead to a Vietnam-style war of attrition where Russia would win.

I feel for Ukrainians who're paying the ultimate price for our neocons' fever dreams and Zelensky's corruption.

Zelensky REALLY should have paid attention to Kissinger.


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"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal."- Henry Kissinger

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Originally posted by second:

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Yeah. I forgot about Stalin.

The Democratic Party's role model.

Shut the fuck up, dummy.

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‘False choice’: GOP congressman breaks ranks to deliver Trump history lesson

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I own a big property in Ireland, magnificent property called Doonbeg, what happened is I went for an approval to do this massive, beautiful expansion…but I learnt a lot because I got the approvals very quickly from Ireland and then Ireland and my people went to the EU to get the approval—it was going to take years—that was a very bad thing for Ireland….

I found it to be a very unpleasant experience.

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Originally posted by second:
Shredding the Postwar Order

By Fintan O’Toole

https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2025/04/24/shredding-the-postwar-orde
r-fintan-otoole/

Europeans were shocked in late February when Trump declared that “the European Union was formed in order to screw the United States. That’s the purpose of it, and they’ve done a good job of it.”

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Originally posted by second:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

You keep pushing the fiction that big bad Russia is conquering Ukraine out of sheer maliciousness. But even the NYT acknowledges, finally, that this was a coalition war planned to regime change Russia and split it from China.

Yanno, in their hubris, neocons really believed ... as you still do, SECOND, despite all evidence ... that there would be a short, pro-forma war that would rationalize freezing Russian assets, kicking the RCB off SWIFT, and collapsing the Russian government. Nobody imagined it would lead to a Vietnam-style war of attrition where Russia would win.

I feel for Ukrainians who're paying the ultimate price for our neocons' fever dreams and Zelensky's corruption.

Zelensky REALLY should have paid attention to Kissinger.


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"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal."- Henry Kissinger

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Signym, for one thing, Kissinger didn't say what you claim he said.

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For another, Russians are murdering Ukrainians, and have murdered Ukrainians for centuries, then stole their land.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Did I add or change any words? Nope! He said exactly what I posted. Don't take his prescience away from him!

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For another, Russians are murdering Ukrainians, and have murdered Ukrainians for centuries, then stole their land.

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Kiev was the first Russian capital before it moved eastward. Catherine the Great founded Odessa.
https://www.rbth.com/history/326434-kiev-as-mother-of-russian-cities

I think Ukrainians stole the land from Russia!



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"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal."- Henry Kissinger

AMERICANS SUPPORT AMERICA

"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

The EU was formed in order to screw European citizens, turn their own national governments and elected officials into meaningless puppets under an unelected cabal who's sole purpose and aim is destroy their history, their national pride and their nations as a whole.

I'd assume that Trump didn't bother phrasing it that way because Americans don't give a shit about the EU. They fucked their own countries up by letting it in, they can figure out how to unfuck themselves or else they'll all just be Muslim countries in 50 years.

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"I don't find this stuff amusing anymore." ~Paul Simon

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Originally posted by second:

Quote:

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

The EU was formed in order to screw European citizens, turn their own national governments and elected officials into meaningless puppets under an unelected cabal who's sole purpose and aim is destroy their history, their national pride and their nations as a whole.

I'd assume that Trump didn't bother phrasing it that way because Americans don't give a shit about the EU. They fucked their own countries up by letting it in, they can figure out how to unfuck themselves or else they'll all just be Muslim countries in 50 years.

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"I don't find this stuff amusing anymore." ~Paul Simon

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6ix, you should send an email to 1,000 people.

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