Does NOT compute: Red Lake Massacre by Knibblet

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Does NOT compute: Red Lake Massacre

POSTED BY: KNIBBLET
UPDATED: Friday, March 25, 2005 09:04
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VIEWED: 1845
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Wednesday, March 23, 2005 9:55 AM

http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/5305359.html

So tell me how a Native American kid can develop into a Nazi? Even a self-styled NativeNazi?

I just don't get it. Don't think I ever will.

I guess the day I understand hate, hategroups or the violence of hate ... that's the day I have to turn in my registered human being card.

disclaimer: Normally I'd never link anyone to anything in the 'Strib' but the real newspaper, the Pioneer Press, is subscription only.

"I'm gonna rip you a new puppet hole, bitch!"

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Wednesday, March 23, 2005 11:16 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

It's called being "self-hating". I've been told it's common in ANY group that society feels free to single out/ pick on (gays, ethnic minorities etc.) I guess in a culture of hate, you can get to hate anyone- even yourself.

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Wednesday, March 23, 2005 11:59 AM

SOUPCATCHER

Yeah. Doesn't make much sense. Damn tragedy.

Weise appears to have believed in racial purity as a lofty ideal - a vision that he shared with Hitler - and that may account for some of the attraction. (Or, he could've glommed onto racial purity from his forays into the world of hategroups on the internet). One commonality between some minority hategroups and many white supremist groups is the quest for racial purity. Whatever the background, the result is horrible.

I took your advice and checked out the registration only Pioneer Press (using bugmenot.com). Here's an excerpt from one of their articles that was reprinted over at the DuluthNewsTribune site (this relates to some online posts that Weise made):
http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthsuperior/news/nation/11197922.
htm

Quote:
excerpt from "School shooting suspect admired Hitler" by David Hanners
He wrote that when he talked in school about maintaining the tribe's ethnic purity by not marrying outside the bloodline, "I get the same old argument which seems to be so common around here. `We need to mix all the races, to combine all the strengths. . . .'

"They (teachers) don't openly say that racial purity is wrong, yet when you speak your mind on the subject you get `silenced' real quick by the teachers and likeminded school officials," he wrote.

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Wednesday, March 23, 2005 5:48 PM

IMEARLY

Quote:
So tell me how a Native American kid can develop into a Nazi? Even a self-styled NativeNazi?

This is an as yet unlabeled condition that is closely associated to Stockholm syndrome.

In this instance, many disadvantaged youths are struggling for identity, these young men and women, began to identify with those who publicly encourage the further oppression of whatever minority they themselves are a part of.

So you're a bounty hunter.
No, that ain't it at all.
Then what are you?
I'm a bounty hunter.

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Wednesday, March 23, 2005 6:14 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

That tragic, mixed-up, alone, struggling kid. His life was bereft, without a port or sheltering safe place. He was looking for something good to advance toward. Without close family, and too socially clumsy for friends. So he looked for something he could have on his own - in spite everyone around him.
You have to wonder about the loneliness and emotional pain that made what he did a solution.

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Thursday, March 24, 2005 3:48 AM

IMEARLY

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
That tragic, mixed-up, alone, struggling kid. His life was bereft, without a port or sheltering safe place. He was looking for something good to advance toward. Without close family, and too socially clumsy for friends. So he looked for something he could have on his own - in spite everyone around him.
You have to wonder about the loneliness and emotional pain that made what he did a solution.

Sadly there are many people who are raised in this young mans situation. The variables are too broad to accurately contemplate, however there is no amount of loneliness or emotional pain that would justify the murder of nine people, injuring others and taking your own life. Despite the social-economic woes of this solitary youth, there is nothing that can validate this atrocity. As the FBI continues the investigation we may find more logic to his endeavor, I surmise that they will find little more woes then the average youth, I myself lost my father to AIDS and nearly lost my mother to Alcoholism. Yet I am now a student of Psychology. As long as we deal with human behavior, (As we always will) we will never fully understand tragedy such as this.

So you're a bounty hunter.
No, that ain't it at all.
Then what are you?
I'm a bounty hunter.

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Thursday, March 24, 2005 3:49 AM

IMEARLY

accidental double posting, sorry.

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Thursday, March 24, 2005 6:01 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
That tragic, mixed-up, alone, struggling kid. His life was bereft, without a port or sheltering safe place. He was looking for something good to advance toward. Without close family, and too socially clumsy for friends. So he looked for something he could have on his own - in spite everyone around him.
You have to wonder about the loneliness and emotional pain that made what he did a solution.

Had he just killed himself, I might agree with you. Killing nine other human beings, in cold blood and most at random, voids his sympathy card for me.

I can't judge this kid on his background or his problems, just on the actions he took. Lots of people have the same environment of troubles he did and just go on doing the best they can, or get help, or end themselves. But killing others to ease your pain is beyond the pale.

The only decent thing he did was kill himself and spare everyone the drama of a trial. Too bad he didn't do that first.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Thursday, March 24, 2005 4:23 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

I assumed there would be people who responded this way.

My understanding is, if someone has a very deviant history - pets died 'accidentally', chums got 'accidentally' hurt etc, the news comes out pretty quickly.

Those kids are scrambled early - either born that way, raped or otherwise abused in infancy, lacking in responsive caregivers etc. (I met a kid like that a few years ago, by the age of 7 three consecutive pets died in strange accidents, and some playmates broke bones as they played with him. I do wonder when I will read about him in the news.) At this stage of knowledge, I don't think there is anything that can be done for those kids except grieve their fate and keep society safe from them.

My understanding of this kid is that he lacked that history, and might have grown differently.

That's not to say that some kids aren't born more socially, intellectually and emotionally 'able' than others. And those others, lacking the same level of internal resources, do require extra care, attention and help. Those early differences influence kids for better or worse. For example, impulsive kids with impaired intelligence, identified as such by age 5, are statistically much more likely to end up in jail.

My feeling is that this kid, lacking in abilities, dealing with loss and probably severe depression, without family care, might still have become stable if adequate help had been available. But without that help, he was, in retrospect, foundering in a situation beyond his resources.

I'm sincerely happy for those who made it through tough childhoods. I'm just not ready to call a kid 'a monster who deserved to die' because he couldn't overcome great odds.

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Thursday, March 24, 2005 5:32 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
I'm sincerely happy for those who made it through tough childhoods. I'm just not ready to call a kid 'a monster who deserved to die' because he couldn't overcome great odds.

I'm not saying he was "...a monster who deserved to die". I'd prefer that no one died. I do respect suicide as an individual choice, however misguided, since one's life is one's own. But taking other people's lives as a cry for help or a release of rage is never acceptable, no matter the circumstance.

I understand that this young man may have felt this was the only way, but I don't believe the old saw about "To understand all is to forgive all." I find none in my heart. Just sorrow for all involved. What a waste.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Thursday, March 24, 2005 10:03 PM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by ImEarly:
[B
This is an as yet unlabeled condition that is closely associated to Stockholm syndrome.

In this instance, many disadvantaged youths are struggling for identity, these young men and women, began to identify with those who publicly encourage the further oppression of whatever minority they themselves are a part of.

Or, maybe he was crazy...hmmm...Native-American Nazi-Murderer/Suicide, yep there's lots of room for crazy there. Wonder what this boy thought about casino gambling, Hitler never talked about Casino gambling...or if he did, its not something we hear much about. Same thing about his policy on capital gains taxes and telephone harrassment, it just gets lost admist the whole World War and genocide business.

H

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Friday, March 25, 2005 3:26 AM

IMEARLY

Hero,

The term crazy cannot be defined, and the association of Native Americans and Casino gambling is a very, very unfair generalization. Our society is too full of such generalities. ie: If he was black would you be pondering Hitler's views on fried chicken?

I'm not to sure if you know this or not, but most Nazi groups are scattered, disorganized, and so full of Anti-Semitism and white supremacist rhetoric that the average citizen looks upon them as little more than hate groups.

And just so you know, there is nothing lost in the WWII/Genocide business, not to anyone who cares enough to look.

I don't intend to sound crass, maybe I just misunderstood your post.

So you're a bounty hunter.
No, that ain't it at all.
Then what are you?
I'm a bounty hunter.

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Friday, March 25, 2005 8:23 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by ImEarly:
Hero,

The term crazy cannot be defined, and the association of Native Americans and Casino gambling is a very, very unfair generalization. Our society is too full of such generalities. ie: If he was black would you be pondering Hitler's views on fried chicken?

I don't know how Hitler felt about fried chicken. Since he and I disagree about everything else, I assume he disliked fried chicken, while I, without regard to my skin color, love fried chicken.

I do not consider the generalization of casino gambling to native americans to be unfair. By their own choice they have, for the moment, inexorably linked the two issues. Casino gambling is very much at issue in NE Ohio right now. Under no circumstances will the state allow casino gambling, but gambling is a sure bet within 5 years because an Indian tribe, not native to this area is purchasing land here to build a casino.

You comparison to the black/fried chicken stereotype is unfair because the blacks are making no special effort to secure exclusive fried chicken rights here or anywhere else. Why? Because its a stereotype, its unfair, and its untrue (well kind of, I assume that black or white, people love good fried chicken, I know I do, but the idea that black people have some special affinity for fried chicken or other southern food is as crazy as speculating about Hitler's tax policies in the wake of a tragic school shooting...oops, my bad). Casino gambling is not.

Quote:

I'm not to sure if you know this or not, but most Nazi groups are scattered, disorganized, and so full of Anti-Semitism and white supremacist rhetoric that the average citizen looks upon them as little more than hate groups.

Yeah, the ones who are clustered, organized, and full of ehtnic and religous tolerance don't deserve the name 'Nazi'.

Quote:

And just so you know, there is nothing lost in the WWII/Genocide business, not to anyone who cares enough to look.

Oh yeah, who won the 1943 World Series?

H

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Friday, March 25, 2005 9:04 AM

IMEARLY

Okay,

You are one funny SOB,

I do truthfully see your point in my stretched comparison, as I too love good Fried Chicken.

As far as exclusive rights, you should consider Las Vegas, Atlantic City, and the Hard Rock Casino just a few miles from my home in Tampa. Not too many American Indian employees there, mostly Caucasian and Hispanic

Quote:

Casino gambling is very much at issue in NE Ohio right now. Under no circumstances will the state allow casino gambling

River Downs
6301 Kellogg Avenue
Cincinnati, Ohio 45230-5237
United States
General Information - (513) 232-8000

Scioto Downs
6000 South High Street
Columbus, Ohio 43207
United States
General Information - (614) 491-2515

Beulah Park
3664 Grant Avenue
Grove City, Ohio 43123-2561
United States
General Information - (614) 871-9600
Toll Free - (800) 433-6905

Lebanon Raceway
655 North Broadway Street
Lebanon, Ohio 45036-1723
United States
General Information - (513) 932-4936

Thistledown
21501 Emery Road
North Randall, Ohio 44128-4556
United States
General Information - (216) 662-8600
Toll Free - (800) 289-9956

Northfield Park Racetrack and Microbrewery
10705 Northfield Road
Northfield, Ohio 44067-1236
United States
General Information - (330) 467-4101

Raceway Park
5700 Telegraph Road
Toledo, Ohio 43612-3691
United States
General Information - (419) 476-7751

It's only a matter of time, because of this I think.

.....

Quote:

Oh yeah, who won the 1943 World Series?

The 1943 World Series matched the defending champion St. Louis Cardinals against the New York Yankees, in a rematch of the 1942 Series. The Yankees won the Series in 5 games for their 10th championship in 21 seasons.

So you're a bounty hunter.
No, that ain't it at all.
Then what are you?
I'm a bounty hunter.

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