REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

My Theory On Why Bush wants to Ruin Social Security

POSTED BY: PIRATEJENNY
UPDATED: Wednesday, February 8, 2006 07:07
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 9672
PAGE 3 of 3

Thursday, April 7, 2005 4:21 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


Quote:

Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
On a related note, my sister-in-law and I were just talking recently that it seems like girls are going through body changes usually associated with puberty at a younger age than they did when we were growing up. We were just speculating but one of the things we talked about was the use of bovine growth hormone and potential affects on children who consume a lot of dairy and beef (specifically from fast food providers who do not label if their beef contains rbST or rBGH). I have no idea if that's even possible (and I'm sure Monsanto would say it isn't) but we were just brainstorming.

I think it is the increased saturated fats in American diets.

What exactly is the conventional diet of a rat? I'm guessing it may very well be that conventionally rats aren’t fed what might constitute the healthiest of diets.

-------------
Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, April 7, 2005 7:05 PM

VETERAN

Don't squat with your spurs on.


A couple years back Time did an issue on this topic. One article indicated that the depressed age of puberty in some girls could be correlated to phthalates in the environment. Phthalates are a pretty common pollutant and they are found in a lot of products. Everthing from latex gloves to furniture polish.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, April 8, 2005 5:01 PM

DEUTSCHMANNECROS


i myself am an ardent supporter of capitalistism. I do consider my self a capitalist, but like Teddy Roosevelt once wanted to give every one a "Square deal", meaning that I think the government should promote private retirement options for people explaining it would be more economical and they'd recieve a larger pay-return if they opted for Iras, and other various private accounts. I believe the corporations should be broken if they mononpolize, form trusts, or practice unfairly.
Besides I like reasonable capitalism. Remember if the corporations control the "Free Market", it's not so "free" anymore, now is it?

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, April 8, 2005 10:39 PM

SOUPCATCHER


Quote:

Originally posted by Deutschmannecros:
Hello, I'm a newbie. I must admit as a conservative libertarian, i too, once was intice by some socialistic policies. Although, I support tarriffs and controled trade and labor unions vs. corporations, I believe social secruity like all pyramid schemes is doomed. In the beginning the small amount of retirees were generiously rewarded by dozens of workers, however because the baby-boomeer population increased a generation, the retirees now randically flip the pyramid to minority of workers working social security to pay dozens more ratio of retirees. I like, the elderly, because of their kindness, respect,and wisdom, like my grandparents, however, social security should be kept for them and gradually phased out for the younger generation, of whom would be encouraged in invest in bonds, banks, secure market investment,Iras,4o1ks and other private retirement plans. Besides if I get social security, which i pay now, I'm getting robbed, because when I retire there will be none left. I'd much rather get a larger return by invest my ex-social security funds, into the market, rather than our corrupt and inefficent bureacratic government. Less government, MORE PEOPLE POWER!!!


Hi Deutschmannecros. Welcome (albeit belated) to fireflyfans!

Just wanted to touch on a couple of things with your post. The ratio argument (less workers paying in versus more people receiving benefits) fails to take into account productivity gains. Each worker today can produce more than a worker in the past. So just looking at the number of people involved is not enough.

Social Security is not a retirement plan. It is an insurance plan. Unfortunately, due predominantly (in my mind at least) to higher medical care costs - think pharmaceutical companies, insurance - many beneficiaries do rely on their Social Security checks. To replace Social Security with carve-out private accounts would be to eliminate the insurance aspect of the program and replace it with a retirement plan.

Saying that there will be none left for you when you retire is only true with one of two drastic changes: either the government fails to honor the T-bills in the trust fund (never been done before and would result in a huge economic catastrophe) or the surplus and the trust fund is carved out to create private/personal accounts. Even if nothing is done, and the intermediate projections are correct, benefits will start being reduced to 70% starting in 2041. Not zero percent. With small changes, the entire program stays solvent in perpetuity.

Saying that personal/private accounts will outperform Social Security has two problems. It is illegal to guarantee performance (think Michael Milkin - or was it Boesky?). The second problem is that two sets of numbers are being used by those advocating carve out personal/private accounts. They use optimistic projections to show that personal/private carve-out accounts perform well. They use pessimistic projections to show that Social Security performs less well. That's shoddy analysis (or deliberately misleading, take your pick. They're either sloppy or trying to trick you).

And as far as inefficiency goes, Social Security is actually one of the most efficient government programs (I know, I know. Probably not saying much - like saying I'm taller than an ant) in terms of the percentage of money taken in that is paid out in benefits, the number of people receiving benefits versus the number of employees, etc.

So I guess I would say that I politely disagree with you that Social Security is doomed with one caveat, it is only doomed if we allow those who are trying to eliminate it and replace it with carve-out private/personal accounts to succeed. The common complaint from those trying to eliminate Social Security is, "Here's our plan for eliminating Social Security. Why aren't you joining us at the table with your proposal?". The response is, "We're at the other table. The one devoted to trying to preserve Social Security. Come on over." I understand the ideological belief that we should get rid of Social Security. I disagree with it. But I understand it. It's been present since 1935. But the majority of Americans think having the Social Security program is a good thing. So those who are ideological eliminationists are in a very small minority.


Oh, and Rue, Veteran, and Finn. Sorry to digress from the digression back to the old topic . I actually wanted to post about the EPA pesticide study that got yanked but this got overly long (basically, paying parents money to let them test pesticides on their children).
---------------------
Next up: Early "Nutcrusher" Jubal and the Firebuggers

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, April 11, 2005 7:29 AM

CHRISISALL


So you're gonna make broad, sweeping generalizations like that bit about you and the ants, huh?

The all too sensitive for no good reason Chrisisall

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, April 12, 2005 10:04 PM

SOUPCATCHER


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
So you're gonna make broad, sweeping generalizations like that bit about you and the ants, huh?



Damn ants. They looked at me funny, is all.

[cue Pink Panther theme]
Dead ant.
Dead ant.
Dead ant. Dead ant. Dead ant. Dead ant. Dead annnnnnt.
Deaaaaaaaad ant.
[fade to silence]

Silly pilsner .

---------------------
Next up: Early "Nutcrusher" Jubal and the Firebuggers

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, February 8, 2006 7:07 AM

JAYNEZTOWN


the budget was a mess

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

OTHER TOPICS

DISCUSSIONS
So, how ya feelin’ about World War 3?
Sat, November 30, 2024 19:32 - 48 posts
What's wrong with conspiracy theories
Sat, November 30, 2024 19:28 - 22 posts
A History of Violence, what are people thinking?
Sat, November 30, 2024 19:16 - 19 posts
In the garden, and RAIN!!! (2)
Sat, November 30, 2024 19:16 - 4794 posts
Browncoats, we have a problem
Sat, November 30, 2024 18:41 - 15 posts
Sentencing Thread
Sat, November 30, 2024 18:39 - 382 posts
Ukraine Recommits To NATO
Sat, November 30, 2024 18:37 - 27 posts
Elon Musk
Sat, November 30, 2024 18:36 - 36 posts
Another Putin Disaster
Sat, November 30, 2024 17:58 - 1542 posts
A thread for Democrats Only
Sat, November 30, 2024 17:40 - 6932 posts
Hollywood LOVES them some Harvey Weinstein!!
Sat, November 30, 2024 14:33 - 16 posts
Manbij, Syria - 4 Americans Killed
Sat, November 30, 2024 14:06 - 6 posts

FFF.NET SOCIAL