I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore by JCKnife

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore

POSTED BY: JCKNIFE
UPDATED: Thursday, August 17, 2023 07:53
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VIEWED: 9593
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Wednesday, May 18, 2005 8:53 AM

Well said HK,

Another issue I'm seeing here as a problem for many people - the focus on seeing to it that the perpetrators of these hideous crimes get what they 'deserve'. Apart from the argument that's already been made concerning the effectiveness of deterrance, I think that the idea of justice has to take a back seat in such extreme cases.

When someone suggests that such a monster be kept alive to study the deep psychological cause of the anomaly, the oft heard objection is that we shouldn't reward the perp with free room and board, that we should, if we bother to keep them alive at all, ensure a life of pain and agony as punishment. From a perspective of revenge, that makes sense. But in such extreme cases, does revenge really serve much purpose?

I'll put it this way. If you could end child-rape and murder forever by sending one of these creeps off to an island paradise, with wine, women and song, wouldn't you do it??? That's obviously a ridiculous suggestion but my point is that, in cases like these, 'justice' really has very little bearing. The focus would be better spent on finding out what the root causes of such behaviour are and learning how we can avoid them.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Wednesday, May 18, 2005 9:46 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Empathetic towards the criminal
or empathetic to the victims / future victims.

Can one actually empathize with an IDEA ("future victims")?? I think that goes beyond the meaning of the word. In any case, future victims- being constructs of our own fantasies- don't need empathy. Real people- with all their warts and flaws- do. I think I'll save my empathy for them.

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Wednesday, May 18, 2005 10:30 AM

BARNSTORMER

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:
Empathetic towards the criminal
or empathetic to the victims / future victims.

Can one actually empathize with an IDEA ("future victims")?? I think that goes beyond the meaning of the word. In any case, future victims- being constructs of our own fantasies- don't need empathy. Real people- with all their warts and flaws- do. I think I'll save my empathy for them.

If you want to be empathetic towards the child
molester rather than the molested child or the
next child that the molester gets a hankering for, then do so.

I'll just thank God and Providence that you are
not in charge of proposing the fix to this issue.

Am I a Lion?... No, I think I'ma tellin' the truth.

BarnStormer

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Wednesday, May 18, 2005 11:01 AM

HANITRADER

Empathy is open-ended and non-selective.

The moment one makes the conscious choice of being selective- well, that person has cut him/herself off from a wealth of information and the opportunity to make lasting changes.

Consider...

A Dam lies near a township. You notice cracks in the framework and a leak has begun. In your initial panic and fear of the potential trajedy to come, you quickly patch the leak with what is at hand. Again, you race back to the township, addled with adrenaline and spend the better part of the day convincing others of danger. As the people in the town begin to leave town, the Dam breaks, a flood come, and most die.

In this scenario, the person that warns the town with his news certainly only had the townships best interests in mind. However...

Only fools rush in.

This person operated only in an adrenaline-addled reactionary mode. This person failed to step back, think, and use all his potential resources to make lasting change. Had he looked past the lip of the Dam, he might have found several logs in the river that were running up agaist the Dam wall. Had he looked around, he may have found a few other folks around to help him. He possibly averted the trajedy by running a rope out to the logs and pulling them ashore as to keep them from damaging the wall and allowing time for others to fix the damaged Dam wall.

Yes. Empathy for the perpetrator as well. Having empathy does not mean one is condoning the perpetrator's actions. This is not an easy task to accomplish- it requires that one really know him/herself.

Once you have the entire picture of the cycle of things, then you can make lasting change.

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Wednesday, May 18, 2005 11:32 AM

CHRISISALL

It's an us vs. them issue for many. Anyone may become a child molesting 'monster' given the right upbringing and/or physiological abnormalities. That's a scary thought, and I already hear, 'No, not me, NEVER!!' Again, UNDER THE RIGHT CIRCUMSTANCES, ANYONE CAN GROW UP INTO 'MONSTER', you, me, ANYONE. These people are not evil, they're messed up. Would you want to see a rabid dog tortured for killing a child? Or should it just be killed quickly?
The question is, what would you want done with you if you had ever become an extreme abuser? I would want to be killed. But that's just me.
Only way to treat this problem this is to be there for our kids, and any other kids in need of being there for that we can. People who become deviants get that way early on, and always with 'training'.

Am I makin' sense? Chrisisall

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Wednesday, May 18, 2005 11:50 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Apparently you didn't read my post carefully, or didn't understand my meaning. I think the word empathize means basically "to feel along with". I don't think you can empathize with an idea.

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Wednesday, May 18, 2005 11:59 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
If you want to be empathetic towards the child molester rather than the molested child or the next child that the molester gets a hankering for, then do so

That's not what I said. Please read my post carefully, then please read my previous posts in which I advcoated everything from a national registry to lifetime incarceration.

Now carefully consider what I just said. Do you get it now?

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Wednesday, May 18, 2005 12:59 PM

HANITRADER

TO CHRISISALL:

I comprehend that anyone can drastically alter their state of being and act out in an antisocial manner- and since no one has a manner in which to peer into the future, that "anyone" includes you and I.

Therefore;

With this premise in mind, this or any other issue can not possibly be an "us vs. them" issue. We are them, and they us.

"Monster" is merely a dehumanizing epithet and an attempt to catagorize the unknown.

As to your current designs on self-immolation should you ever cross the threshold into antisocial behavior, well... I imagine many radio and televised Weatherman can understand your frame of reference for such a statement. As with your statement, they too can only predict based on current information- however, dyanamic systems often are fickle to change in dramatic ways at the drop of a hat.

We can never know where life and circumstances will take us. Life after all is persistant.

You may wonder how I arrived at this perspective on the problem which has attracted so much emotion on this thread. It's simple really- I've worked with both the abusers and the abusees. I have also watched the abusees become the abusers.

This problem largely exists due to it's cyclical nature, and without empathy and understanding, we fail to embrace the entirety of the problem.

Merely plugging the holes in the Dam, and not looking for the reason the holes are appearing in the first place.

I know of no grand plans for a solution. As a matter of fact, the little (well, perhaps not so little) cynic in my head says any attempted solution would fail miserably- after all molestation, rape, and murder has gone on among us sentient and adaptable Apes (Please don't let this turn into a Creationist/Evolutionist arguement- it's only a figure of speech) since time immemorial, and no one has solved the problem as of yet.

Empathize; help those in need of help, no matter which side of the line they stand.

Peace.

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Wednesday, May 18, 2005 1:14 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Actually, the interesting thing about Chrisisall's response is that it seems to be demonstrating the same violence and hate (in this case self-hate and self-violence) that characterizes a criminal? Not trying to imply that Chrisisall is a criminal or even has criminal tendencies, just that it seems like we all have more in common with "them" than we might imagine.

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Wednesday, May 18, 2005 2:16 PM

HANITRADER

I understand your point.

My observation is as follows.

True empathy, that is empathy towards what any given society considers the "criminal element" or those whom might act out in an antisocial manner, comes from intense self-study and self-exploration.

Self-study/exploration requires a great deal of self-honesty for, one often comes face-to-face with those aspects of him/herself that can be quite distasteful.

Distasteful but all too Human.

It seems that with all of our technology and scientific advancement that it is easier for individuals to deny their true nature- that we are no more than sentient animals. Animals in the wild do not kill for motives other than the opportunity to feed or self-preservation. They do not experience greed, avarice, lust, or delusion.

Humans kill and harm for those reasons and more.

When one makes the leap of understanding that there is no difference between "us and them", we can experiance empathy.

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Wednesday, May 18, 2005 4:59 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by HaniTrader:
When one makes the leap of understanding that there is no difference between "us and them", we can experiance empathy.

That was basically my main point, however crudely or akwardly I worded it. Us and them is the basis for hatred, and I was attempting to show that we should remove it from any equation, and try to help KIDS, the victims of the problem, whether they are potentially abused or abusees to be.
It's just that, once a certain line is crossed (when death is involved) my sympathy ends and all I see is someone who needs to be free of the twisted body that is perverting what could be a wonderfully expressed spirit. We all start out wonderful, after all.
But then my belief in reincarnation probably weighs heavily into this, and might mean nothing to others regarding this topic.
It's really all about

Again, maybe a harsh buddah Chrisisall

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Wednesday, May 18, 2005 7:21 PM

HANITRADER

Okey Dokey- I can dig your groove.

Although we all share consensual interpretations of reality, those consensual agreements still continue to pass through our individual filters. The end result being more than a billion unique vistas- each and every one of them an absolute Truth.

Whether they vary merely over distinctions as to just which is the best science-fiction series ever made; or variance in context skewed through the perception of a paranoid schizophrenic.

Each of the Billion-plus (not to mention the billions that have winked out with death; or those yet to be) realities are REAL and VALID.

Grok on man,
Enjoy your meals,
Wear clean underware,
And-

Enjoy Life.

Peace

This is HaniTrader signing off for this thread.

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Thursday, August 17, 2023 7:53 AM

JAYNEZTOWN

Samantha Morton Says Harvey Weinstein Tried To End Her Career For Turning Down 1 Movie

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/samantha-morton-harvey-weinstei
n-turned-down-movie-role_n_64c13df2e4b093f07cb6b0a2

a line from Network 1976
in other news

seems Robert Duvall, 'The Pale Blue Eye' and fay Dunaway 'The Man Who Drew God'
might still be making movies

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