Divorce epidemic? by chrisisall

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Divorce epidemic?

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Sunday, August 28, 2005 10:42
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VIEWED: 2377
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Thursday, August 25, 2005 11:00 AM

Is it just me, or is it everywhere I look I see couples, where the people are 30 or over, getting divorced like crazy all of a sudden?
Is this a local phenomenon in the Northeast U.S., or is it more widespread?
And how much of it is due to depression about world events, war, and terrorism?

This is purely anecdotal, I may just be thinkin' on it too much...

Not-divorced Chrisisall

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 11:54 AM

This is obviously caused by gay marriage undermining the entire institution. Perfectly happy couples like you used to see on The Donna Reed Show were spending lives of domestic bliss when suddenly gays forced their twisted agenda onto America and made the marriages of ordinary hetrosexuals a sham.

America must invade Lesbos and destroy the root causes of this new terror.

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 11:58 AM

We're gonna turn this into a big funny?

I can live with that Chrisisall

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:02 PM

I think he was being more ironic than actually humorous.

----
I can see you.

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:05 PM

Well, I would like to understand exactly how one couple's marriage is undermined by another couple next door being married and yet both having the same set of genitalia. But the trouble is that you are forced to listen to this most dreadful amount of waffle that amounts to one thing: the Bible says so. However because you hamstrung yourself in America to bar all laws respecting (or outlawing) any religion, that isn't a valid argument so instead there's waffle.

Mmmmm, waffles.

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:06 PM

Yeah, what he said--especially about the waffles.

----
I can see you.

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:18 PM

I can give you a reason, divorce.
People are getting divorced because of divorce.

Hey folks, just get married, if you decide you don't like your partner you can just get a divorce!

Hey your marriage has hit a rough patch! Why work through your problems when you can get a divorce!

Not saying divorce is to blame, btw, just that the whole attitude of having such comtempt for marraige that its okay to get married today and divorced tommorrow...

I mean there are valid reasons for divorce, but they're a valid reasons to not get divorced too...

Q: What do you have when you are holding two little green balls in your hand.
A: Kermit's undivided attention.

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:24 PM

Well, maybe we should outlaw divorce, and outlaw marrage too!

Hmmm, naw, if we outlaw marrage, only outlaws will be married.

Outlaw Chrisisall

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:24 PM

I believe some marriages ought to end in divorce. I also believe some people turn to it as an easy way out when better ones exist, and others make the mistake of staying with a "sinking ship" when it ought to be clear it's a lost cause. All sorts of extremes out there.

I was one of the latter cases, personally, until after 18 years I finally got wise and ended a painful thing that ought never been done. The good news is the second time around I got it totally right, and life is good.

----
I can see you.

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:29 PM

I got married when I was 31, maybe kids should wait for the big day; I was in no particular rush.

Makin' the best of a double-post Chrisisall

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:34 PM

Not sayin that chris, even tho I suspect your being flipant

.

Divorce is needed, sometimes marragies do have to end, but when you got celebrities gloryifing divorce (I'm looking at you Britney) what do you expect? When someone can turn up in Las Vegas and be married today, divorced tomorrow, what message does that send out?

Q: What do you have when you are holding two little green balls in your hand.
A: Kermit's undivided attention.

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:37 PM

I submit the revolving door of quick marriages/divorces is just a symptom of problems that go 'way beyond marriage, itself.

----
I can see you.

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:45 PM

Quite possibly. But the get your marraiges here, two bucks a peice, divorces next door attitude can't help, can it?

Q: What do you have when you are holding two little green balls in your hand.
A: Kermit's undivided attention.

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:50 PM

No, but people with a well-developed sense of themselves, their worth, and the meaning of committed relationships wouldn't be caring about such things in the first place. I suggest the path to some solution of this sort of thing, granting that it be an actual societal problem, doesn't lead to fixes within the institution of marriage, itself (whatever that means). Methinks any sort of action directed at changing marriage-related rules would just paper over where the real issues lie.

That goes double for the whole gay marriage "thing," so as not to ignore SimonWho's inputs (snarky though they were, you devil, you).

Marriage is just a symbol, not a thing that has an independent existance. Change the symbol, and what it represents has changed not a jot.

----
I can see you.

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:51 PM

I suspect that mentality is similar to the quick and easy 'shoot first, and use diplomacy later' approach the Bush administration used with Saddam.

TAKE ACTION NOW!!!

Honey, you left the toilet seat up again, I'm seeing my attourney today!

....all you need is love....

Chrisisboggled

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Spinland:
Marriage is just a symbol, not a thing that has an independent existance. Change the symbol, and what it represents has changed not a jot.

True, and the symbol for most seems to mean absolutly nothing in the first place.

Q: What do you have when you are holding two little green balls in your hand.
A: Kermit's undivided attention.

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 1:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SimonWho:

Mmmmm, waffles.

While you're chewing, have any idea what the gay-divorce rate is?

It would be hi-larious if it was half that of straight couples.

Personally, I don't mind gay marrage, I just don't like it when gay people marry straight people just to irritate the Lord.

Pat Chrisisall

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 1:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:

True, and the symbol for most seems to mean absolutly nothing in the first place.

I think that the media has a roll in all this, the dispensible spouce syndrome.
Plus like I mentioned earlier, loss of faith in leaders, in the economy, and a general depression all, I think, feed the fire of discontent.

I think we need to teach kids that there's no one out there who will 'save you' emotionally, that they have to be emotionally independant. Only that way can they actually choose a friend and lover to share things with. Otherwise, they just fall into the arms of a convienient co-dependancy, one that has a 50-50 chance of lasting.

Unfunny Chrisisall

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 1:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Chrisisall:
I think we need to teach kids that there's no one out there who will 'save you' emotionally, that they have to be emotionally independant. Only that way can they actually choose a friend and lover to share things with. Otherwise, they just fall into the arms of a convienient co-dependancy, one that has a 50-50 chance of lasting.

Teach us you must.
I'm not being sarcastic.

Thats the first truly sensible solution to this I've ever heard.

Problem is a great deal of parents either don't care, can't be bothered or simply wouldn't know where to start...

Q: What do you have when you are holding two little green balls in your hand.
A: Kermit's undivided attention.

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 1:19 PM

For my little part I'm trying to get my son to understand that he's important, loved, and respected. Whatever little quirks I have as a parent, I try to eclipse them with this overriding truth for him.
And also that strong females are cool.

Chrisisall

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 1:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Chrisisall:
And also that strong females are cool.

Amen to that!

I don't mean to be down on parents, I have two ya know, and I hope to be one someday...
Just it bothers me, ya know, when I hear some parent say:
"How do you expect me to control my child? He/She don't listen to me!"
Its that attitude that winds me up. Theres a reason their kids don't listen to them...
They just don't see it...

Q: What do you have when you are holding two little green balls in your hand.
A: Kermit's undivided attention.

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 1:34 PM

When I was 20 or so in New York City one time, my friends and I were in a fast food place, and we saw a mother, out of contol with 3 whining kids, punch her oldest boy in the face (he was like, 8), and we stood there asking what we should do. The consensus was, anything we said or did would make it worse for the kid. We felt helpless.
To some, parenting is a bad trip.

Wonder if that kid ever struck her back in all these years...

Chrisisall

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 1:46 PM

I imagine he's saving it up for his wife, or kids; or both. It's how those things tend to work, alas.

----
I can see you.

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 1:58 PM

It's always possible he broke the chain; I'd like to think so...

Chrisisall

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 1:59 PM

Bully for you, sir; I've gone too cynical for such.

----
I can see you.

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 2:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
When I was 20 or so in New York City one time, my friends and I were in a fast food place, and we saw a mother, out of contol with 3 whining kids, punch her oldest boy in the face (he was like, 8), and we stood there asking what we should do. The consensus was, anything we said or did would make it worse for the kid. We felt helpless.
To some, parenting is a bad trip.

Wonder if that kid ever struck her back in all these years...

Chrisisall

Chris, as someone who struggled with that question for many years, through trial and error, I came upon the most powerful response: walk toward the parent until you have her attention and then just stand watching her. What children need more than anything else, is what Alice Miller termed "an enlightened witness;" someone there who knows what's wrong. Talking generally just gets in the way. The parent prolly won't even ask you what you want; the look on her face tells you that she knows. She'll prolly get very rational all of a sudden, very quiet, pack up her kids and get out of there quick. Those kids, though, will keep their eyes on you the whole time and they'll remember what you saw.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 2:08 PM

Chrisisall, I agree with virtually everything you've said; and generally try to life my life by guidelines similar to your sound advice.

However for argument's sake, it just crossed my mind that the infamously post-modern term 'social mobility' combined with your 'cultured emotional independence' also brings with it a sense of detachment. We are all islands, and all that jazz.
There is no real stigma placed on 'spinsters' these days in most of Western society, or threat of econ/social paralysis if left unwed (even for men), as folks can even get married at the ripe old age of 31.

I'll readily admit that when I hear statistics or stories of young couples getting divorced, I'll usually judge them with your criteria. But perhaps I'm not giving half these people the credit they deserve...

But in the end... i care about the (non-religious) institution of marriage too much to give in to this pseudo-liberal rhetoric about the joys of divorce.
As it was said, the roots of this increasingly jaded behaviour must lie deeper somewhere in modern socio-cultural crisis.

-
"There's a sort of evil out there. Something strange in the hills. It takes different forms, but it's been there for as long as anyone can remember. And we've always been here to fight it."

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 2:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Those kids, though, will keep their eyes on you the whole time and they'll remember what you saw.

HK, where were you in 1980 when we NEEDED YOU??

Great, great advice.

Chrisisall

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 2:21 PM

There's a line in the movie Logan's Run where Logan and Jessica repeat the words 'Beloved husband, beloved wife', I love that.

Jaded Chrisisall

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Friday, August 26, 2005 4:30 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Quote:
Those kids, though, will keep their eyes on you the whole time and they'll remember what you saw.

It's true. And nothing will make a bigger difference for that child than that externalization. "Sometimes the most important thing to change is ... a mind."

Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

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Saturday, August 27, 2005 6:56 AM

Quote:
Is it just me, or is it everywhere I look I see couples, where the people are 30 or over, getting divorced like crazy all of a sudden?
Is this a local phenomenon in the Northeast U.S., or is it more widespread?

To drag this thread, kicking and screaming, back to the original question. . .

I haven't noticed any change is the divorce rate unfolding before my incredulous eyes. Don't know how old you are, Chris, but I have noticed one phenomenon.

Divorce among the folk I know came in a couple of waves.

There were the people I knew who got married just out of high school, who got divorced 5-7 years later.

Then there were the ones who got married as soon as they got their undergrad degrees, who got divorced 5-7 years later. Since you specified 30 or over, you might be witnessing the second wave among folks of your acquaintance.

If so, you can still look forward to the mid-life crisis wave when they guys discover the career they've devoted 20 years to doesn't ever get better, and the women who've waited for the kids to grow up and leave home get divorced, both in an attempt to make themselves over.

People change. You are never the person at 25 that you were at 18. There's another change when your kids leave home and your primary focus is no longer the kids. What I have noticed is this: Some couples have a dominant and a dependant partner, and some couples are two strong independant people, capable of separate existence, who happen to overlap in the process of marriage. It's the second group that lasts.

To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein

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Saturday, August 27, 2005 7:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by R1Z:

What I have noticed is this: Some couples have a dominant and a dependant partner, and some couples are two strong independant people, capable of separate existence, who happen to overlap in the process of marriage. It's the second group that lasts.

I'm seeing it in couples around here who are just hitting 40, generally with one or two young grade school children.

One couple in particular that I know well, I wanna smack 'em! Like they didn't know each other's differences for the last 10 years?!??

Anti-mid-life-crisis Chrisisall

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Saturday, August 27, 2005 10:42 AM

It's better to get divorced than stay in an unhealthy marriage.

I think it might be a trend of today. Being single is more and more acceptable. So why marry if you can live or see your loved one anyway.

I don't believe in marriage and am not going to be 'shackled' by some legal stuff. Real love is better.

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Sunday, August 28, 2005 5:05 AM

The solution is not to make divorce harder. The solution is to make marriage harder. Make people wait for a year before they can get married, then see how many stick it out.

If you can't wait a year to get married, chances are it is isn't the institution for you.

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Sunday, August 28, 2005 5:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BlueSkysMine:
Real love is better.

Love is for poets.

Ha! Finally a chance to use that line from Highlander!!

Poet Chrisisall

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Sunday, August 28, 2005 7:51 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I think the problem is that people marry in the throes of love (sexual attraction). But then the attraction wears off. People get older, stresses like children, illness, unemployment, even terrorism come into the picture and the couple don't know how to re-negotiate the new relationship or they're unaware that they should even try.

People change over their lifetime. No matter how much "in love" or how compatible they may have been at the begining of a relationship, the only thing that is guaranteed is that it will change. What keeps a marrigae together- and studies show this- is the ability to neogotiate change. And THAT is based on kindness, respect and humor. I did a google search on __long marriage positive interaction__ to find the original study and came up with a slew of references. Here is one: www.uwec.edu/counsel/pubs/marriage.htm

Obviously, this doesn't work if neither or only one person is working on the marriage. If BOTH partners aren't committed to working on their marriage then it SHOULD end in divorce because then you have a power imbalance. I think the answer is in giving people a much more realistic view of marriage to begin with, and requiring three or four months of counseling before divorce- six months if children are involved.

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Sunday, August 28, 2005 8:13 AM

I think it's this "ME" mentality that's taking it's toll. There are a growing number of people out there that can't abide there being any other point of view besides their own. I've been married 14yrs and with my wife for 5years of high school and University before our marrage. What keeps us going is that, while I like being right, I respect her point of view. It can't always be my way. Marriage is composed of 2 people. I can understand that because I'm not 8yrs old. I really believe this is the insurmountable hurtle faced by most people.

That said, I do know that some divorces are just plain due to incompatability.

Safeat2nd, Chief Handyman of Destiny

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Sunday, August 28, 2005 9:14 AM

>>>The solution is not to make divorce harder. The solution is to make marriage harder. Make people wait for a year before they can get married, then see how many stick it out.<<<

Maybe this would work for some, but in the end, the main cause for divorce isn't that the beginning was wrong. I guess it's more what happened on the way, during the years, that broke the union between two people.

We need more mutual understanding.

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Sunday, August 28, 2005 10:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by safeat2nd:
What keeps us going is that, while I like being right, I respect her point of view. It can't always be my way. Marriage is composed of 2 people.

I'm lucky in that it is always MY way, my wife understands this, and makes the proper allowances.
(BTW, she is a model Cherry 2000 manufactured in '04)

Of course, you're entirely correct. It must be 50/50, or it's nothing at all.

Bottom line Chrisisall

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Sunday, August 28, 2005 10:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
And THAT is based on kindness, respect and humor.

Like the Bush administration, I prefer relationships that are based on fear.
*cracks his whip*

Just kidding...

I'm a lover AND a fighter Chrisisall

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