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Originally posted by Geezer:
Politics is an unfortunate companion of a representative democracy. If you can explain how to run one without politics, I'd be interested to hear.

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

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Originally posted by Geezer:
Politics is an unfortunate companion of a representative democracy. If you can explain how to run one without politics, I'd be interested to hear.

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At the risk of demonstrating my ignorance, I'd do away with the representative part, and have direct vote for all issues. You would have to pass a very basic test to show reading comprehension to register to vote. The vote would be relatively simple, since prolly fully 3/4 of the people would never vote for such large numbers of issues, so the count would be quick. And only interested parties would vote on things, so awareness of the issues should be high- that would be a plus also.

*braces for the comeback*



Chrisisall

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Originally posted by chrisisall:
At the risk of demonstrating my ignorance, I'd do away with the representative part, and have direct vote for all issues. You would have to pass a very basic test to show reading comprehension to register to vote. The vote would be relatively simple, since prolly fully 3/4 of the people would never vote for such large numbers of issues, so the count would be quick. And only interested parties would vote on things, so awareness of the issues should be high- that would be a plus also.

*braces for the comeback*
Chrisisall

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Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
I have given the question of what might be a better political system for Canada some thought...

Amongst my reading, I found the system the Swiss had to be the most interesting:

http://www.admin.ch/ch/e/bk/buku/buku2005/index.html

In this system they have what they call direct democracy where if the population gets pissed enough they can over-rule the government, if your up to it give it a read... referendums and recall votes are something else they use in an interesting way.

BTW It is easier to have them mail you the book explaining their system, which they do for free

The Swiss Confederation: a brief guide 2005 -

http://www.admin.ch/ch/e/bk/order/index.html

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Originally posted by Geezer:


Thousands of pieces of legislation are passed by the Congress annually, not to mention those passed by state, county, and city governments. How much time do you have to become informed on each of these, without any help, while still earning a living?

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Originally posted by reallykaylee:
i'm 17!
*giggles*

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IMHO, the Federal Government does not bear all the onus for mistakes made - while acknowledging that mistakes were made..

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Originally posted by SignyM:

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IMHO, the Federal Government does not bear all the onus for mistakes made - while acknowledging that mistakes were made..

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Actually, legally, yes they do (bear all the onus). Changes were made to the emergency response system this past January that puts the onus directly on the Federal government to be THE responding agency in a Federal State of Emergency. That was done to clear up the lines of authority that were so tangled during 9-11. Until then, FEMA was pretty much an afterthought in disaster situations... handing out papers for government loans for the most part.

Yes indeed mistakes were made at all levels (except, as far as I can tell, at the Mayoral level). But aside from the mistakes, there is the fact that the entire upper echelon of Bush's administration and Bush himself, did not interrupt their palns to actually deal with the disaster. While FEMA was foundering there was no follow-up. No- "How's it going? Is everything in place? Are people being rescued?" Bush stuck to his schedule for TWO DAYS after the levees broke before finally getting involved. What can one make of THAT??

Please don't think they give a shit.

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Originally posted by SignyM:
No, the pre-hurricane evacuation it wasn't run correctly, but that wasn't Nagin's fault. The NOLA emergency plan (drafted with IEM contracted by FEMA) depended on people having their own transportation. That was a major flaw, but that was the plan. THe bus drivers had been dimissed and couldn't be recalled, and there wasn't anything Nagin could do except call for volunteers. Afterwards, when city and state resources were overwhelmed, FEMA bobbled. The Feds COULD have done, SHOULD have done a lot of things that they didn't do.

Please don't think they give a shit.

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Originally posted by reallykaylee:
i'm 17!
*giggles*

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Originally posted by SignyM:
While FEMA was foundering there was no follow-up. No- "How's it going? Is everything in place? Are people being rescued?" Bush stuck to his schedule for TWO DAYS after the levees broke before finally getting involved. What can one make of THAT??

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Originally posted by SignyM:
It wasn't made clear why they were dismissed. EDITED TO ADD: It prolly had to do with being able to participate on the voluntary evacuation END EDIT There are several things that Nagin did according to the NOLA Disaster plan: He called a voluntary evacuation, he called a mandatory evacuation more than 24 hours ahead of landfall and he designated the Superdome as a refuge of last resort. ALL of this was in their emergency plan.

The first flaw in the plan was that it depended on people having their own transportation to get out of the city or get to shelters (or to refuges of last resort). Nagin sent buses to known collection points to take people to designated shelters. That was not in the plan, but he did it anyway. The second flaw is that there were no high-ground shelters. That would probably have taken state or Federal cooperation because I don't think it was anything Nagin could have arranged on his own.

Please don't think they give a shit.

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Originally posted by lynchaj:

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Originally posted by reallykaylee:
i am just so sick and tired of people hating PEOPLE. it's the stupid party system that's to blame for creating so much hatred. curse necessary evils!

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I understand what you mean but politics is one of those necessary and unpleasant part of life. I consider it somewhat akin to death. Without death, there is no life. Without politics there is no community. It is human nature to struggle against one another and a necessary part of community and human society.

I may get blasted for that opinion, but there it is.

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of course i do own a shirt that says viva la reagan revolution . . . that looks just like one of those che shirts, BUT IT'S FUN! you've got to forgive me! (my friend has one that says "we'll always have clinton" and we wear them on the same day!)

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Hey, I have one of those! Cool!

High Five!

Andrew Lynch

PS, http://www.thoseshirts.com/reaganwt.html]

This one is much cooler in my book...





Don't think they give a shit

I'm with Signy and Rue and Tecumseh

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Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:

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Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
But the hospitals were not evacuated...

Usually this is done first, well ahead of the main evacuation, and to other hospitals out of the dangerzone... as some of these people would require constant care...

Seniors homes would be a close second in priority... I don't know if it is true, but I did read an account of such a home where these seniors were abandoned by the staff of the facility, and all died...

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Originally posted by SignyM:
There is a good article in the LA Times that addresses the faulty evacuation. The reason why the NOLA plan was almost silent on transportation was because it hadn't been worked out. Apparently Nagin DID line up buses but, as I said before, ran short of drivers.

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"No one is above the law and that includes the president."

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Imagine, Bush, unsatisfied with Lousiana's preparations, could have invoked the Insurrection Act and taken direct control of the State without the invitation or approval of a female, elected Democratic Governor. Then we'd all have nothing to complain about, would we?

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Originally posted by SignyM:

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Imagine, Bush, unsatisfied with Lousiana's preparations, could have invoked the Insurrection Act and taken direct control of the State without the invitation or approval of a female, elected Democratic Governor. Then we'd all have nothing to complain about, would we?

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Hero- Why do you keep tossing out false dilemnas? This was already addressed in several threads. Bush had the authority to call in the National Guard from other states to perform non-police/ security duties (search and rescue and relief). That was one of the main points of of the whole new National Plan. Sheesh! Get w/ the program!

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Originally posted by Hero:
Also heard a Corps of Engineers guy last night saying no amount of money would have made a differance because the levees, no matter how much work they did to upkeep them, were not designed to handle a storm that large. Its like a 10 gallon bucket. It can be the nicest, newest, most modern 10 gallon bucket in the world, but it aint gonna hold 11 gallons.

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