Venezuela is next?!? by OurMrReynolds

Wikipedia has this to say about Chavez:"Hugo Rafael Chávez Frías (born July 28, 1954) is the President of Venezuela. A former paratroop lieutenant-colonel who led an unsuccessful coup d'état in February 1992, he was elected president in 1998. His presidency has seen sweeping changes throughout the country, including a new constitution, many new social programs, and a new foreign policy distancing Venezuela from the United States.

Since his election in 1998 on promises of helping the poor, Chávez's influence over Venezuelan politics has grown. One year after a majority of Venezuelans voted to keep him in office, the popular leader consolidated his power, striking a harsh anti-USA tone. He is up for re-election in 2006, and recent polls suggest he has about 70 percent popularity.

Chávez and his administration have been opposed through confrontational methods by some established sectors in Venezuela, including the business federation Fedecámaras and labour union federation CTV, resulting in a coup d'état, general strike/lockout, and recall referendum, all of which failed to remove him from office. Although the opposition charged that there was widespread fraud in the recall vote, international observers said the official results matched their counts at polling sites. Subsequently Chávez and his allies have won consistent political victories, occupying the vast majority of elected municipal, state, and national posts, as well as majorities in the supreme court, national electoral council and national assembly."

Ok, he's democratically elected, disagrees with and is scared of us, and Pat Robertson said we should assassinate him, even though the US has officially dissapproved of assassination since 1976. Umm... we seem to be losing the moral high ground here... oh of course there's OIL involved so morality can take a back seat until he's dead. And he doesn't seem interested in "coming to get some", he seems worried that we will decide to come get some of HIM. And his country, or what's under it anyway. Or does the fact that he smoked a cigar with Castro make him worthy of a bullet?
Hero, all I'm getting from you is that we should whack this guy because he dares speak against us. He seems to have the popular vote there, and by a lot higher percentage (70%!!!) than OUR current leader. Can't get more populist than that. Then again, Amnesty Int'l agrees with you that he violently suppresses his political opponents. Of course, a large number of them violently oppose HIM, and Pat Robertson seems to think this is a good idea. Hmmm....

Cynicism is the smoke that rises from the ashes of burned out dreams.
"I am planning on growing a big black moustache. I'm a traditionalist."

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Friday, September 16, 2005 7:48 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I think it is possible that there is a military plan out there somewhere for invading Venezuela. I'd like to think that there is a military plan out there for invading almost every country on the planet. It's the military's job to come up with catch-all battle plans for every scenario.

The idea is, if the Pres says, 'Let's invade country X' or if country Y pisses in your beer, you'd better have a battle plan pre-drawn and ready to go.

It's just practical.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Friday, September 16, 2005 7:50 PM

GINOBIFFARONI

I would put what ever Amnesty International has to say with a grain of salt... I mean a well intended organization, but they are critical of everyone...

I suppose that could mean they have no bias ???

Have a look at what they think of a few countrys ( I included the number of pages of specific reports )

The US ( I know, not really a good example ): 40 pages

http://web.amnesty.org/library/eng-usa/index

Canada : 2 pages

http://web.amnesty.org/library/eng-can/index

Venezuela : 3 pages

http://web.amnesty.org/library/eng-ven/index

Cuba : 5 pages

http://web.amnesty.org/library/eng-cub/index

Russia : 10 pages

http://web.amnesty.org/library/eng-rus/index

Is Chavez right to worry ???

Is it paranoid to think your might be paranoid when the Americans are out to get you ???

Don't think they give a shit

I'm with Signy and Rue

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Friday, September 16, 2005 9:18 PM

It's not just that there is a plan, because you are right, we have a plan for EVERYONE. If Luxumberg pulls some crap, we've got a plan for it. But he says this isn't tucked away somewhere, it's getting warmed up. He also claims that our troops have been performing exercises to prepare on an island off of Venezuela's coast. That seems a bit silly, just because if you are practicing to invade a country you don't do it within spitting distance of them. I would think you'd find someplace far away with similar geography and practice THERE. The whole thing is weird...

Cynicism is the smoke that rises from the ashes of burned out dreams.
"I am planning on growing a big black moustache. I'm a traditionalist."

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Friday, September 16, 2005 9:37 PM

GUNRUNNER

Quote:
Originally posted by OurMrReynolds:
He also claims that our troops have been performing exercises to prepare on an island off of Venezuela's coast. That seems a bit silly, just because if you are practicing to invade a country you don't do it within spitting distance of them. I would think you'd find someplace far away with similar geography and practice THERE. The whole thing is weird...

Cynicism is the smoke that rises from the ashes of burned out dreams.
"I am planning on growing a big black moustache. I'm a traditionalist."

Are you familiar with Operation Ortsac? Ortsac is Castro spelled backswords. Just before the Cuban missile crisis started the US Military conducted a exercise against a factious country in Costa Rica. If at all possible the military tries to train near where the battle will take place or if possible on that same battlefield. Think of past conflict areas of the cold war such as Germany, the GIUK Gap and the Med- both sides conducted operations there to intimidate the enemy and if the shooting started that is where the fighting would occur.

EV Nova Firefly mod Message Board:
http://s4.invisionfree.com/GunRunner/index.php?act=idx

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Friday, September 16, 2005 9:43 PM

Hmmm... hadn't thought about it from an intimidation standpoint... was thinking "if we're tryin' to be covert this makes NO sense" but I see your point

Cynicism is the smoke that rises from the ashes of burned out dreams.
"I am planning on growing a big black moustache. I'm a traditionalist."

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Sunday, September 18, 2005 2:44 AM

America loves a winner!

10 years of U.N. sanctions and 17 Resolutions are the bench mark before going to war w/ a nutcase leader. In fact, judging how the fickle world community is acting over Iraq, it may take more resolutions and a longer period of sanctions.

Hugo is whacko. Bush is far from being a Saint, but that still doesn't mean he's going to war w/ Venezuela. We won't. Hugo is just grandstanding, trying to get more attention for himself, promote Communism, you name it.

I wonder if that 'evidence' came via the same fax number at that Kinkos store in Texas that Dan Rather used to get his faked documents on W's T.A.N.G.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, September 18, 2005 4:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by OurMrReynolds:
there's OIL involved

Oil, you say?

You know, I was in Venezuela a few months ago, and I overheard Hugo in a local bar bragging that he was planning on uniting all of Central America with South America, and establish links to the Middle East and Al-Queda, in an effort to take over the world, so we must invade him!! Oh, and they tortured me too. They're all mean and evil despotic rulers, lucky I escaped. Let's go get him!!

(face it; gas prices are high, and we could use an affordable vacation site right about now...)

Read my lips Chrisisall

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Sunday, September 18, 2005 5:37 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
(face it; gas prices are high, and we could use an affordable vacation site right about now...)

Don't know about you, but gas prices have come down 30-40 cents since Labor Day weekend.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, September 18, 2005 6:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Don't know about you, but gas prices have come down 30-40 cents since Labor Day weekend.

Just wait and see what gas prices will be once Venezuela/Al-Queda takes over the hemisphere!

Yeah, laugh now Chrisisall

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Sunday, September 18, 2005 8:17 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Don't know about you, but gas prices have come down 30-40 cents since Labor Day weekend.

Just wait and see what gas prices will be once Venezuela/Al-Queda takes over the hemisphere!

Yeah, laugh now Chrisisall

Uh - huh. Right. Ok.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, September 18, 2005 10:35 AM

R1Z

Quote:
I think it is possible that there is a military plan out there somewhere for invading Venezuela. I'd like to think that there is a military plan out there for invading almost every country on the planet. It's the military's job to come up with catch-all battle plans for every scenario.

So who, exactly, was responsible for the plans to invade New Orleans? Or are there so many plans that they get mis-filed sometimes?

To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein

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Sunday, September 18, 2005 11:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by OurMrReynolds:
Hugo Chavez, prez of Venezuela recently said that he has documents and proof that the US is planning to invade his country with aircraft and naval support. He went to nightline with the story, maps, supposed codename of the project ("Balboa" if yer interested) and other stuff. OK, I know we got a history of shady deals in South and Central America. He is an opponent of the Iraq war, which I suppose could be construed as a motive to make it all up, but he seems super and I'm just wondering if anyone has info ideas or opinions on the subject. In other words, please do the research for me and post any thoughts? (Other than "of course its true because america is evil QED" or "of course its a lie because Bush is a saint and a better man than you will ever be you unpatriotic scum") Some thought would be nice.

Cynicism is the smoke that rises from the ashes of burned out dreams.
"I am planning on growing a big black moustache. I'm a traditionalist."

This is fodder for the fruitcakes and conspiracy theorist not proof of an impending US invasion of Venezuela. Chavez is trying to set the seed of an impending invasion in the media, hoping it will add unrest to the war weariness. Chavez, like his meaner cousin Kim, is paranoid and knows that the US/UK may be seeking to establish a less rogue-state friendly world atmosphere. Chavez liked it better when the president/prime ministers of the major powers applied the ‘wishful Liberalism’ approach to foreign policy. I like to call it the ERM (Eastern Roman Empire) approach: pay off the Huns and hope they attack the Western Rome Empire. The Huns get rich when the major powers are too scared to fight back.

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Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.

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Sunday, September 18, 2005 11:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Yeah, laugh now Chrisisall

Uh - huh. Right. Ok.

That doesn't sound like a laugh....
Saddam was just as dangerous to us a while back as Hugo is now, you must see we should nail him!!

Chrisisall, who thinks we should ice all bad guys equally and fairly

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Monday, September 19, 2005 1:28 AM

JAIF

Granted there are some parallels between Venezuela and Iraq, but Hugo has not invaded two oil producing countries, and is not attempting to gain nuclear technology, at least not to my knowledge.

Even if I buy-in to the Bush=pocket of oil barons rhetoric, I still don't see how invading Venezuela is worth it to anybody other than opponents of the current govt.

-Jeff

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Monday, September 19, 2005 8:39 AM

See, that's what I thought... Venezuela?!? Really?!? Yer yankin' my chain... but crackpots, even if they do run a country, don't usually end up on Nightline being taken seriously, or on the CNN homepage, which is where I saw the article that started my confusion over this whole mess.

Cynicism is the smoke that rises from the ashes of burned out dreams.
"I am planning on growing a big black moustache. I'm a traditionalist."

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Monday, September 19, 2005 9:50 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Saddam was just as dangerous to us a while back as Hugo is now, you must see we should nail him!!

*begins laughter* Bwaahhaa haaaa haaaa!!! Too funny!

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Monday, September 19, 2005 10:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by jaif:

Even if I buy-in to the Bush=pocket of oil barons rhetoric, I still don't see how invading Venezuela is worth it to anybody other than opponents of the current govt.

-Jeff

And i thought I was funny....

Chrisisinawe

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Monday, September 19, 2005 10:40 AM

BARNSTORMER

Actually, I have it on good authority that Canada is next. They've got oil to, and a pretty decent highway system that actually connects to ours. And also, when Global Warming (which is now irreversable you know) really starts heating things up, It'll be prime real estate up there when the icecaps melt. Oh yah, and they got a lot of beer I hear........

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Hee heee heee

I know, I know. My mama always said not to tease the retards, but on occasion it is Highlarious.

OOOppps, that was'nt very politically correct was it. I meant to say "Mentally Challenged"

Am I a Lion?... No, I think I'ma tellin' the truth.

BarnStormer

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Monday, September 19, 2005 10:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BarnStormer:

So...you're not at all fearful of being offensive, huh?

Could have just said dummies or something Chrisisall

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Monday, September 19, 2005 11:03 AM

BARNSTORMER

I was only trying to stay within the dialogue parameters of the religeous, right wing, war mongering, red neck end of the spectrum, that all the left wingers who would believe the "who is the US going to invade next" crap expect.

Thats part of what makes it so HighLarious.

Don't tell me you don't see the Humor Chrisisall.....

Am I a Lion?... No, I think I'ma tellin' the truth.

BarnStormer

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Monday, September 19, 2005 11:32 AM

Well, the first half was really good...

Allright, Bwahahah Chrisisall

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Monday, September 19, 2005 12:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by OurMrReynolds:
See, that's what I thought... Venezuela?!? Really?!? Yer yankin' my chain... but crackpots, even if they do run a country, don't usually end up on Nightline being taken seriously, or on the CNN homepage, which is where I saw the article that started my confusion over this whole mess.

Has it occurred to you that, maybe, Nightline and CNN have their own agendas?

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Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.

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Monday, September 19, 2005 7:15 PM

Of course their agenda is to "sell papers", or advertising or whatever, and Chavez's story is certainly sensational enough to do that, but you don't see crackpots and conspiracy theorists on them much because they have a reputation to protect. That rep is more important to keeping advertisers happy than the sensationalism because more people (or at least more of a certain type of people) tune in and pay attention because of the reputation they have. That's why you don't see the Enquirer/Weekly World News type stories there (normally). I mean, if they ran with every "JFK is Alive!" or "Batboy sighted" story they could, sure, people would sit up for about 5 minutes, but then they would lose respect and change the channel. By the same token they don't grant interviews or run stories about every crackpot and tinhorn despot that says the US is out to get him. That's why I think this story merits a little more scrutiny.
If instead you're going for the "liberal media" or "Anti-Bush bias" slant, I gotta say I don't buy it. They tore Clinton a new

about Whitewater, Vince Foster, Monica, etc. And Bush is getting torn a new one too. Is it because they hate him? No because people in power

ing up "sells papers", and is legitimate news.

Cynicism is the smoke that rises from the ashes of burned out dreams.
"I am planning on growing a big black moustache. I'm a traditionalist."

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Tuesday, September 20, 2005 1:53 AM

Yes. Clinton was a fratboy. And the media loves to point out the failings of presidents. Studies, however, have shown that they love to point it out more for Conservative presidents then Liberal presidents.

As for how this fits into the Chavez thing, I don’t know. I didn’t see Chavez on the news so I can’t say out it was depicted.

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Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.

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Tuesday, September 20, 2005 5:02 AM

JAIF

Quote:
Studies, however, have shown that they love to point it out more for Conservative presidents then Liberal presidents.

I think there are too few subjects for any study to be conclusive.

In Clinton's case, the problem was the media had a few choices:

- Oral sex, lying under oath.
- Corruption in a complicated real-estate deal.
- Explain the intricacies of the chicago mercantile exchange enough so people recognize that Hillary took a bribe.

I think the media was wise to go for door #1. The other two just aren't sexy enough to be worth printing.

-Jeff

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Tuesday, September 20, 2005 10:36 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by jaif:

I think the media was wise to go for door #1. The other two just aren't sexy enough to be worth printing.

They will go for what gets attention and ratings.
With Clinton & Lewinsky (sounds like a TV show about sexy lawyers, doesn't it?) there was no misunderstanding, they did naughty stuff.
With the whole WMD lie, it was complicated, and could be spun into "We just haven't found them", and then into oblivion where no one is talking about it any more. It's not sexy, exciting, or easy to comprehend, so- no follow up.
But C&L went on and on and on.....

Chrisisall

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Tuesday, September 20, 2005 12:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by jaif:
I think there are too few subjects for any study to be conclusive.

Too few subjects? You don’t watch the news much do you?

Interesting, isn’t it. Clinton had to commit perjury in a federal court in order to get bad press. All Bush had to do is be in office.

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Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.

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Tuesday, September 20, 2005 1:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:

Interesting, isn’t it. Clinton had to commit perjury in a federal court about a matter of no importance to anyone outside his family in order to get bad press. All Bush had to do is be in office and lie about WMD's to get a war going that the UN didn't want to OK, and attack a country that was not directly connected to the 911 attack, and was not an immediate threat to the U.S.

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Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.

There. You left out a few things. I fixed it for ya. Isn't that better now?

In case you forgot Chrisisall

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Tuesday, September 20, 2005 2:16 PM

Well, that certainly typifies some of the more zealous opinions.

I’ve often wondered if much of the “Bush lied” story that is so prevalent among anti-Bush Left is actually repressed embarrassment in the wake of the Clinton Administration. Because much of the more fanatical Left you know, even in the media, were dismissing some pretty questionable behavior all the way through the game, and now I think that many of them are finding themselves in the awkward position of comparing the two Administrations and finding the Bush administration to be the more ethical, for lack of a better word. Faced with that possibility they desperately seek any reason to deface the Bush administration to protect their ideology and perhaps their own reputations. That may be a possibility. Some others have suggested to me that it is frustration over having lost the 2000 election. I really don’t know how to explain it. I just find it all quite queer.

But I digress.

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Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.

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Tuesday, September 20, 2005 2:43 PM