ID me by SergeantX

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

ID me

POSTED BY: SERGEANTX
UPDATED: Thursday, February 23, 2006 10:38
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 3075
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Tuesday, February 21, 2006 3:19 PM

IDs are stupid. All they do is make it easier for bankers and tax collectors to track down their victims. But they make the insecure feel safer, so we all have to wear our dogtags.

Sheeple.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Tuesday, February 21, 2006 3:24 PM

CHRISTHECYNIC

"When a place gets crowded enough to require ID's, social collapse is not far away. It is time to go elsewhere. The best thing about space travel is that it made it possible to go elsewhere."

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Tuesday, February 21, 2006 3:38 PM

DC4BS

I agree on the taxman part, but bankers? How is it a bankers fault if someone voluntarily takes a loan and then doesn't (won't/can't) pay it back?

Just curious.

I'm a computer geek/sysadmin, not a banker BTW...

------------------------------------------
dc4bs

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Tuesday, February 21, 2006 3:44 PM

CHINDI

a time may come when it won't be safe for naughty ppl like us to slip about.. but it ain't this time...

Chindi

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Tuesday, February 21, 2006 3:49 PM

SERGEANTX

Quote:
Originally posted by dc4bs:

I agree on the taxman part, but bankers? How is it a bankers fault if someone voluntarily takes a loan and then doesn't (won't/can't) pay it back?

Just curious....

Don't know about fault, just saying that's one of the most common uses of ID and one of the biggest reasons ID schemes exist.

I'm currently negotiating the chutes and ladders of getting a driver's license in PA. They have all these ridiculous requirements, all in the name of Homeland Security, which is a total joke. Do they imagine terrorists saying "Gee Akmad, we gotta have a hunting license and a utility bill to get our id's. Might as well pack it up and go home..." Gimme a break.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Wednesday, February 22, 2006 8:36 AM

SICKDUDE

Howdy SgtX!

Maybe it's not so much to deter terrorists from getting driving licenses, as it is to deter young teenagers!

"It's a cow."

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Wednesday, February 22, 2006 8:38 AM

SICKDUDE

And for what it's worth, I'll take the taxman over bankers any day of the week. The taxman plays by pretty straight forward rules, and is only looking for a percentage. The banker makes it up as they go, uses the small (microscopic) print, and wants it all.

"It's a cow."

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Wednesday, February 22, 2006 8:39 AM

KAELE

Driver's liscense in PA, eh? Not too hard, seeing as how those suckers issued me one.

Now what you REALLY need to go for is a liscense to carry a weapon in PA...that'd be shiny.

Not that I'd actually do it, just that I'd have the paper saying I could.

Kaele
AIM - Dewlanna
YID - jedi_kaele

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Wednesday, February 22, 2006 10:13 AM

NOSADSEVEN

[german accent]Papers! Papers![/german accent]

It's not a national ID card - honest! It's just a state issued document verifying your ability to operate a motor vehicle. Really. That's all it is.

Quote:
Originally posted by Kaele:
Now what you REALLY need to go for is a liscense to carry a weapon in PA...that'd be shiny.

Not that I'd actually do it, just that I'd have the paper saying I could.

I believe 'the paper saying you could' is called The Constitution, at least in those states that choose to abide by it...

*...must...resist...real-world...discussions...*

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't. We. Just.

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Wednesday, February 22, 2006 11:37 AM

KAELE

OK :)

No real world discussions. Wrong thread/forum. Addendum: I'm sorry, meant to say concealed weapon liscense.

Besides, I'm too much of a ninny to be carrying a weapon around anyways. Haven't shot at anything for almost 20 years, and those were only targets. My dad carried his pistol around downtown Philly and I almost had a coronary. He was all excited he had his liscense to carry concealed and had to try it out.

My kids + dad with weapon under his coat = freaked out me

LOL

I'd never make it in the 'verse...

~Kaele
AIM - Dewlanna
YID - jedi_kaele

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Wednesday, February 22, 2006 2:14 PM

THEPISTONENGINE

Are you joking? The taxman is as straight forward as a crowbar. Pay extra money for this, exemption for that. If your a contortionist, sign your name upside down with your right toes over your left shoulder to get three extra deductions.

Quote:
Originally posted by Sickdude:
And for what it's worth, I'll take the taxman over bankers any day of the week. The taxman plays by pretty straight forward rules, and is only looking for a percentage. The banker makes it up as they go, uses the small (microscopic) print, and wants it all.

"It's a cow."

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Wednesday, February 22, 2006 6:53 PM

CHRISTHECYNIC

I remember when my dad lost his social security card and we looked up how to get a new one, you needed two forms of ID from a list, more than two of them were easily forgeable, after that you have a legitimate SS card, with which you can replace the two forged IDs with real ones and get whatever you want, passport, whatever.

Congratulations you just created/replaced (depending on how crafty you are) a person, what's more not one of your many IDs is fake, not one has a flaw on it. It's air tight.

We live in a screwed up world.

-

What gets me is that Bush wants to allow illegal aliens drivers licenses. If they're Illegal why don't we deport them? Save the licenses for the LEGAL aliens.

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Wednesday, February 22, 2006 6:57 PM

NOSADSEVEN

Quote:
Originally posted by nosadseven:
*...must...resist...real-world...discussions...*

Quote:
Originally posted by Kaele:
OK :)

No real world discussions. Wrong thread/forum.

Don't worry - that thought was directed soley at myself, partially because of the former location of the thread, but primarily because I learned long ago that my quality of life is greatly improved when I spend my fansite time appreciatin' Nathan, rather than discussing real world events. 'Course, sometimes I just can't help myself.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't. We. Just.

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Wednesday, February 22, 2006 7:05 PM

CHRISTHECYNIC

Quote:
Originally posted by nosadseven:
I believe 'the paper saying you could' is called The Constitution, at least in those states that choose to abide by it...

According to the United States Supreme Court the only armaments protected under the Second Amendment are those that can be shown necessary for (or at least helpful to) the upkeep of the State Militia. As there are no State Militias left it would be hard to justify anything under the Second Amendment. Of course most people don't give a damn about the Supreme Court and lesser courts have ruled in different ways.

However one must remember that the word, "Arms," does not mean, "Guns," H-bombs and sharp sticks actually classify as arms just as readily and I have seen few people advocating the right of the common man to own and operate a nuclear weapon. I have also not seen those saying, "We should have arms but not big ones," (the current stance of the NRA) telling us to lay off with the ones that we can kill lots of people with in a short span and go back to rocks and sharp sticks.

It would all be a lot simpler if the thing said, "Citizens have the right to bear guns," but it doesn't. It says the right to bear "arms" with a clause about Militia. No card carrying member of the NRA I know of has claimed that means, "The right to bear all arms regardless of potentials to public safety," and no organization I know of wants a broad reading of that amendment more than the NRA.

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Wednesday, February 22, 2006 8:11 PM

DREAMTROVE

I hope everyone is agreed on this subject. If anyone supports the national ID card, they're a moron, not because they support it, but because they managed to watch all of Firefly, perhaps several times, without even remotely getting the point.

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Wednesday, February 22, 2006 10:58 PM

CITIZEN

Tony Blair wants a national ID card in Britian, its not compulsory but if something like 50% pick it up they have a clause to make it so. One of the big hot political topics at the moment over here. Frankly if ID cards come compulsory over here one of two things is going to happen:
I'm emigrating to Australia,
Or
I'm going to prision.

No way I'm carrying war time papers in peace time.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
You should never give powers to a leader you like that you’d hate to have given to a leader you fear

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Wednesday, February 22, 2006 11:17 PM

FLETCH2

Almost everywhere in Europe has them. In Sweden you can't use a credit card without showing your ID card (kinda like over here in the states with Driver's licences.) In Canada you effecticely have an ID because the card you use to access healthcare has your picture on it.

The fact is that for a lot of transactions you have to be able to verify your identity. You have to do it to drive, to board a plane, certain classes of financial transactions. I don't see why there is so much fuss. In Sweden you can choose not to get the card but if you dont have it, dont expect that you will be able to use a Credit card smoothly.

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Thursday, February 23, 2006 4:04 AM

DREAMTROVE

Quote:
I'm emigrating to Australia, Or I'm going to prision. No way I'm carrying war time papers in peace time.

Ah for the days when they only registered jews. The problem is of course that this is one small step, in itself of little signifigance, towards a much greater facist goal.

Personally, when I think about big govt. and the comming EUSSR and its new Amerika equiv., I'd rather take my chances with Bin Laden. Lunatics with bombs can be avoided. I go up in the hills, they really won't bother me. It's bad govt. which is going to track you down.

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Thursday, February 23, 2006 4:44 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by Chindi:
a time may come when it won't be safe for naughty ppl like us to slip about.. but it ain't this time...

Chindi

Would you lump serial pedophiles into the "naughty people" group? What about those wacky people who strap bombs to themselves?

I've found ID's very useful. They tell us a person's driving record, whether they have outstanding warrants, how many prior DUI's they've had, if they are registered to vote, if the right person is on trial, getting served at bars, cashing a personal check, not to mention my City ID lets me skip the metal detector coming into work.

H

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Thursday, February 23, 2006 4:51 AM

FLETCH2

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Quote:
I'm emigrating to Australia, Or I'm going to prision. No way I'm carrying war time papers in peace time.

Ah for the days when they only registered jews. The problem is of course that this is one small step, in itself of little signifigance, towards a much greater facist goal.

Personally, when I think about big govt. and the comming EUSSR and its new Amerika equiv., I'd rather take my chances with Bin Laden. Lunatics with bombs can be avoided. I go up in the hills, they really won't bother me. It's bad govt. which is going to track you down.

Oh please!

You already carry an "ID Card" it's just that it's supposed purpose is to prove that you can drive. The problem is that as an ID it isn't that great. So your choices are to let it ride, accept ID theft, undesirables doing Lords know what because it's crap ID or get something better.

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Thursday, February 23, 2006 5:02 AM

CITIZEN

The British cards,especially if made compulsory, is very different from drivers licences.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
You should never give powers to a leader you like that you’d hate to have given to a leader you fear

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Thursday, February 23, 2006 5:09 AM

CARTOON

Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
Do they imagine terrorists saying "Gee Akmad, we gotta have a hunting license and a utility bill to get our id's. Might as well pack it up and go home..."

Hi, Sarge. I live in PA, and I didn't need a hunting license or utility bill to get my license.

(Heck, I think most people in PA don't even have to know how to drive to get a license -- at least that's what I'd gather from what I see on the road every single day.)

I have a CDL with both P and S endorsements. And to maintain an S (schoolbus) endorsement, they make us jump through hoops backwards every four years -- including classes, training, examinations, etc -- which, incidentally, for the amount of pay we get (if you can call it that), it's nothing short of amazing that anyone would drive a schoolbus in this state.

Anyhow, I just had mine renewed last month again, and I only needed to provide my Social Security card and a photo ID. That's all.

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Thursday, February 23, 2006 5:19 AM

FLETCH2

I have quite a collection from my world travels, like I said most places in Europe have them. My comment about driver's licences was directed at DT (who I quoted.)

Here in the US you end up showing the damned thing all the time, I know because I the one I have has the worst picture you can imagine. When I got it I thought nobody would ever see it because nobody ever saw my UK licence. However in the US you use it when you use a credit card, write a cheque, board a plane, buy anything more than a few 100 dollars, oh and I suppose if you ever get pulled over.

So the question remains how is this NOT an ID card? That's what it's used for, far more often than it's used for anything connected to driving.

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Thursday, February 23, 2006 7:29 AM

DREAMTROVE

Hero,

I knew someone would stumble into this pitfall of "moron post needed here." No offense. Did you watch the show, firefly, at all? Maybe you should pick up a copy. The ID is a tool for the govt. to track and oppose you- 'Hero,'

At the moment, you're 'Hero' I don't even know who you are, but if we go down this road, ultimately I'll be able to check the record on who you slept with and why you had your fight with your boss, your medical records and how you voted.

The point is this: The position that us libertarian leaning folk are standing for is you. Joss is on this side, it's the pro-you side. It's pro-Hero.

Hero, by contrast, has taken the anti-Hero side. It makes me wonder if you named yourself after a certain communist propaganda film which I saw a while back. You do know that that was a communist propaganda film right? That it was paid for by the Chinese Communist ministry of propaganda. This ain't no conspiracy theory. Zhang Yimou was given the option of making the film or ending his career in a sort of counter-mccarthyism. (Blacklisting everyone who *wasn't* a communist. Zhang Yimou himself is not a communist, and thus was forced to make a communist propaganda film to prove his loyalty. Fortunately for his, the commies paid for it, and it made money. It was a good film too, propaganda aside.)

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Thursday, February 23, 2006 9:33 AM

MRSKBORG

The whole ID card thingy in the Uk, I may emigrate as well, especially since the nice little Scottish Parliament very quielty did a U-Turn and decided to go along with Westminster on this one. Iris Scans, fingerprints. And they also were talking about everyones medical records being encoded into them - long term that is. What, they gonna start microchipin us next? On the bright side, the government ususally stuff these things up so badly it'll prolly never happen...........look at the wonderfull computer system for the CSA, spent millions on the gorram thing and it still don't work properly.

"This movie may be a beautiful butterfly, but I loved that damn caterpillar." Joss Whedon.

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Thursday, February 23, 2006 10:38 AM

SERGEANTX

Wow... didn't realize this had been moved. Glad to see all the comments.

As I mentioned, I've been jumping through all the hoops necessary to get legal in the state of Pennsylvania. The requirements have been 'beefed up' in response to the 9/11 hysteria. But what is overwhelmingly obvious is that none of the additional requirements would have any bearing on someone with ill intent. It's all easily fakeable (birth certificates, utility bills, lease agreements, etc, etc.), but for honest folks its a pain in the butt to go looking for all that junk. My name is not on the lease where I'm staying and the utility bills are in my roommate's name. I don't even know where to go looking for my birth certificate. I'm tempted to just fake them all, it might end up being easier than doing it legit. Wouldn't that be novel, providing fake information to get an otherwise legitimate ID?

Anyway, it's given me pause to question the whole system, something I'm wont to do. What value does all this bureaucracy provide? All It really seems to do is make it easier to keep track of honest people. Criminals will do their thing regardless. They might even find an easier time of it, because once they get their fake ID, people will tend to accept them with less skepticism since they have 'credentials'.

The thing is, people don't want to have to make judjements on their own. They want an authority to assure them everything will be ok. Ok, if you want to have all these assurances and you think IDs will achieve that, have at it. Just restrain your government goons from arresting me when I refuse to play along. You don't wanna give me a loan, or a job, or trade with me, unless I have an ID? Fine, but kindly mind your own business if and when I find those who will. The point, as usual, is that those of us without the desire to be herded like cattle would appreciate it if you kept your plans optional, fair enough?

The problem is, as with most of the social schemes 'right thinking' people cook up, they can't seem to resist the urge to force everyone else to play along. It's the usual statist political mind set. People who think they know what's best for everyone else, forcing it down our throats.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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