any christians here in this entire site please stand up by leelu7777

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

any christians here in this entire site please stand up

POSTED BY: LEELU7777
UPDATED: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 17:15
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 22587
PAGE 1 of 5

Sunday, March 5, 2006 9:30 PM

after hearing the auful remarks in the atheist post I was beginning to belive that there a no christians in this site.as to some of your posts you said that there is no proof well you arent looking hard enough have anyone ever heard of the ALPHA insiatute they have scientists that can prove in detail that God exists. It tore my heart out to hear so many lost souls on this site. if anyone has any Q's I'm sure you can find answers from alpha or
the 700 club website just look for Bring it on in the 700 club banner.

i'm in the world not of it.

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Sunday, March 5, 2006 9:50 PM

SIGMANUNKI

1) Ok, you're new so I don't blame you for not knowing. But, if you look through the archives, you'll find a tonne of threads that talk about FF from a Christian perspective.

2) No they certainly cannot prove the existance of god in detail. If that were true, then we would all have been believers a long time ago.

3) Well there is no 3. But, I couldn't just have 2 in a numerated list now could I?

----
"We're in a giant car heading into a brick wall at 100 miles/hr and everybody's arguing about where they want to sit."
-David Suzuki

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Sunday, March 5, 2006 10:03 PM

RIVER6213

Quote:
Originally posted by leelu7777:
after hearing the auful remarks in the atheist post I was beginning to belive that there a no christians in this site.as to some of your posts you said that there is no proof well you arent looking hard enough have anyone ever heard of the ALPHA insiatute they have scientists that can prove in detail that God exists. It tore my heart out to hear so many lost souls on this site. if anyone has any Q's I'm sure you can find answers from alpha or
the 700 club website just look for Bring it on in the 700 club banner.

i'm in the world not of it.

Didnt you get the memo? God hates you. God let's everyone down...everyone..including you. So shut up and sit down ans slit your wrist with the best of us.

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Sunday, March 5, 2006 10:07 PM

LEELU7777

yes there is proof its just people dont want to belive they want to be incontrol of everything instead of beliving in a higher being that loves us more that we can bear to the point of death. so they choose no to pay attenion or see that hes all around us and yes I know I sound crazy but this must be said.

I'm in the world not of it

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Sunday, March 5, 2006 10:11 PM

SIGMANUNKI

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:

Didnt you get the memo? God hates you. God let's everyone down...everyone..including you. So shut up and sit down ans slit your wrist with the best of us.

Well, that's a hell of a thing to say.

What was your point again?

----
"We're in a giant car heading into a brick wall at 100 miles/hr and everybody's arguing about where they want to sit."
-David Suzuki

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Sunday, March 5, 2006 10:16 PM

SIGMANUNKI

Quote:
Originally posted by leelu7777:
yes there is proof its just people dont want to belive they want to be incontrol of everything instead of beliving in a higher being that loves us more that we can bear to the point of death. so they choose no to pay attenion or see that hes all around us and yes I know I sound crazy but this must be said.

Actually the proof that you seem to be pointing to requires belief before it makes sense. The problem with this is that that is no proof at all.

Proof cannot be caste aside. It is proof after all.

But, instead of just stating things without anything to back up your claims (point of fact, this really irritates me), why not provide said proof?

If it really is proof, then we'll all be believers just by reading this thread. And no, I'm not being sarcastic. That is a logical conclusion.

----
"We're in a giant car heading into a brick wall at 100 miles/hr and everybody's arguing about where they want to sit."
-David Suzuki

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Sunday, March 5, 2006 10:34 PM

LEELU7777

fine live in darkness live in emptiness and die go to a place where you will have every disease and every mental sickness ever created because a misconception. I dont know what happened to you to get that idea but he will never let you down it just takes some time for every thing to take place. he lived for you he died for you and this is how you repay him he died because the devil took the keys of heaven so no one could enter he had a chance to flee the garden of olives and leave the people that cursed him and let you burn he could have had a long and furfilled life but no he was beaten broken and nailed at a tree his children spit on him and he knew it would happen he could of shunned them left them to suffer in etrenal darkness but no he forgave the ones that cursed him and you say he dosent care ha as a christian I know him speak to him and feel his love and his peace and then to hear the words of hate twards him to think people would rather chose emptyness and pain over peace and true everlasting love because of past wrong doings fine you have a choice not mine who am I to tell you it your life

i'm in the world not of it

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Sunday, March 5, 2006 10:54 PM

SIGMANUNKI

@Leelu7777:
Ok, what just happened?

You said in your first post that you'd answer questions. I asked for the proof that you keep refering to, I mentioned what I thought it was and my opinion of those specific "arguments" so you wouldn't answer with any of that. So, we wouldn't waste our time.

And instead of answering in a coherent fashion with the requested information, I get a speach about how I'm going to burn?

I'm sorry for asking this, but it has to be asked. Are you even willing to discuss this? Or are you just going to answer every question with "You are going to go to hell!" if we don't go along with what you say imediately?

----
"We're in a giant car heading into a brick wall at 100 miles/hr and everybody's arguing about where they want to sit."
-David Suzuki

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Monday, March 6, 2006 1:43 AM

HAZE

Quote:
Originally posted by leelu7777:
fine live in darkness live in emptiness and die go to a place where you will have every disease and every mental sickness ever created because a misconception. I dont know what happened to you to get that idea but he will never let you down it just takes some time for every thing to take place. he lived for you he died for you and this is how you repay him he died because the devil took the keys of heaven so no one could enter he had a chance to flee the garden of olives and leave the people that cursed him and let you burn he could have had a long and furfilled life but no he was beaten broken and nailed at a tree his children spit on him and he knew it would happen he could of shunned them left them to suffer in etrenal darkness but no he forgave the ones that cursed him and you say he dosent care ha as a christian I know him speak to him and feel his love and his peace and then to hear the words of hate twards him to think people would rather chose emptyness and pain over peace and true everlasting love because of past wrong doings fine you have a choice not mine who am I to tell you it your life

i'm in the world not of it

DON’T YOU EVER TALK ABOUT METAL ILLNESS AS IF IT’S A CURSE SENT BY GOD! YOU HAVE NO IDEA!

You have no idea at all. You cant unless you have been there.We are not a totem of fear to be welded, we are people.

If you are of the belief God is sending people to hell for not worshiping him properly then I will leave you to bask in you elitism.

Good day.

--------------------------------------------------
Who do you suppose is in there?

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Monday, March 6, 2006 2:02 AM

ALGUS

All the interesting people will be in Hell anyway: Gandhi, Caesar, Douglas Adams.

Besides, I'd feel too guilty if I made it into Heaven and knew my folks were down below roasting.

---
Where's the KABOOM?! There was supposed to be an earth-shattering kaboom! *sigh* Delays...delays...

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Monday, March 6, 2006 2:16 AM

DINKY

Einstein would be in Heaven.

That's one reason why I hate it when people say knowledge replaces faith.

"Th3re !s n0 spo0Ne." -The Matricks

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Monday, March 6, 2006 2:34 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
Leelu7777:
Ok, what just happened?

reckon he/she was replying to that upbeat river gal.

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Monday, March 6, 2006 3:42 AM

FLETCH2

Quote:
Originally posted by Dinky:
Einstein would be in Heaven.

That's one reason why I hate it when people say knowledge replaces faith.

"Th3re !s n0 spo0Ne." -The Matricks

Not if some folks are to be believed. If you are a none Christian you don't get in. Einstein was Jewish.

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Monday, March 6, 2006 4:13 AM

GRIZWALD

Eek! May I say that

1. I am a Christian.
2. I attempt to be grammatical at all times.
3. I try not to be defensive about my faith.

I would prefer not to be categorized with the ungrammatically defensive faction of Christianity evidenced above.

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Monday, March 6, 2006 4:20 AM

JUGGLESGEESE

I am a Christian, and I am proud of it.

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Monday, March 6, 2006 4:35 AM

DINKY

Quote:
Originally posted by Fletch2:
Quote:
Originally posted by Dinky:
Einstein would be in Heaven.

That's one reason why I hate it when people say knowledge replaces faith.

"Th3re !s n0 spo0Ne." -The Matricks

Not if some folks are to be believed. If you are a none Christian you don't get in. Einstein was Jewish.

And he believed in God....

"Th3re !s n0 spo0Ne." -The Matricks

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Monday, March 6, 2006 4:57 AM

FLETCH2

Not good enough Dinky.

Sorry

But cheer up, he'll have lots of company, some Protestants don't think Catholics will be let in and visa versa and I suspect that once "11th day Baptists" split off from "10th day Baptists" they'll believe all the 10th day folks they left behind will burn too.

And you thought choosing the right preschool for your kids was tough....

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Monday, March 6, 2006 5:03 AM

DINKY

Err what I meant by he would be in heaven is by HIS beliefs.

It was too early in the morning when I typed that. I completely forgot what I said.

"Th3re !s n0 spo0Ne." -The Matricks

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Monday, March 6, 2006 5:13 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Well, I have it on good authority from my Seventh Day Adventist and Jehovah’s Witness friends that just shy of 200,000 of us are actually making it to heaven. This puts the best odds at something like one in 60,000 that any one us will make it, and judging from my horrible luck with lotteries I’m not expecting much.

Actually, I’m hoping the Roman Catholics are right, because I could really use some time in Purgatory. I think it would do me some good. Get away from it all to a place where things aren’t really all that bad, though not really all that good. Just kind of so-so, like living in Sweden.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Monday, March 6, 2006 5:22 AM

CARTOON

Hey, Leelu. You're not alone. I'm a believer, as well.

One bit of suggestion -- you'll never convince anyone to believe who doesn't want to believe. Present the truth of the gospel in a heartfelt manner, but don't become defensive if people reject it. People have been rejecting it from the dawn of time, and it would be presumptuous on our parts to think we can present it any better than even God's own son (who was rejected, too).

A second suggestion is learn who you need to ignore. If you read and respond to every post by everyone in here, you'll go crazy and more likely than not, be wasting your time and effort which could better be spent elsewhere. As I'm sure you already know, we're obligated to declare the gospel -- but, if it's rejected, the Lord instructed us to move on.

Thirdly, I never bothered going into the atheist thread because I'm not an atheist and it's not my place to interefere with them. Unfortunately, they don't feel the need to reciprocate, and seem to jump at the chance to stir up a rucuss in Christian threads. This was a lesson I learned all too well when I first went into Christian chat rooms years ago. I won't do so anymore, because (unfortunately) they are generally overrun by nonbelievers who just want to offend believers.

Oh. And we can also pray for those who attack us because of our beliefs.

(Not an easy thing to do, but required of us, nonetheless).

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Monday, March 6, 2006 5:41 AM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by Cartoon:
A second suggestion is learn who you need to ignore.

Leelu:
I suggest you start right here. Cartoon is a nut and an extremist. He's the type that thinks blowing up non believers is a good and just thing, said so on occasion. If he didn't believe what he said he'd merely be a Troll, unfortunately he really does believe the sh*t that he taps out on his keyboard. I suggest you stay well clear.

All you'll get otherwise are questions on your sexuality and accusations of being an Islamic terrorist. Mark my words.

Stay Shiny.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
You should never give powers to a leader you like that you’d hate to have given to a leader you fear

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Monday, March 6, 2006 6:24 AM

SEVENPERCENT

You know, it's funny; I wasn't going to post in this thread after reading it a bit (especially after the person who started it went off on what can only be an LSD inspired rant consigning Sig to the depths of hell), but I changed my mind. I'm a Christian, and by God, I have something to say.

I always wonder (especially in the neocon evangelical era) what happened to the Christianity I grew up with. I can rememner hearing things like "turn the other cheek," and "beating swords to plowshares," and sacrificing ourselves to serve others. I remember "hate the sin, not the sinner," and "be not like the hypocrites that pray in the streets." I remember the Resurrection was about hope and salvation.

Now look at what we have. We bomb people in the name of God (don't think we do? Our fearless leader preaches that he follows God's direction). We torture, and think that it's okay to live in fear. We have protestors that show up waving signs that say "God hates fags." God hates? Since when? Last time I checked, Jesus was about free love and forgiveness. We have people in Missouri trying to create state sponsored religion, and people screaming on television about how good a worshipper they are. Now, people are waiting for the second coming not with hope, but with an attitude of "watch me go to Heaven in the rapture, all you corrupted souls, as I laugh while you suffer." What kind of attitude is that?

I'm sorry, but Christians have become decidedly un-Christian as of late, including the thread's OP, who ranted about someone going to hell. The fact that you praised the 700 club, whose leader (isn't that Pat Robertson?) called for an assassination of a Supreme Court judge and the Venezuelan President, makes me shudder in incredulity.

Sorry, but as the so-called "evangelicals" have taken control, I've shifted farther and farther left go get away from them. I wonder what Jesus would have done - but I doubt it would be to kill or hate anyone.

7%

------------------------------------------
He looked bigger when I couldn't see him.

Anyone wanting to continue a discussion off board is welcome to email me - check bio for details.

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Monday, March 6, 2006 7:36 AM

RAM

Some sci fi programs support the concept of God and faith while others don't. You just have to turn a blind eye to those that depict incorrect information if you want to continue to enjoy the brilliance brought forth in so many sci fi programs.
Those who are atheistic in nature and also feel a need to be "in control" of there own destiny don't realise that god does offer that(control), yet he already knows your response. God exists outside of time (What a concept!, true sci fi fans understand this this concept!). He sees life as a parade, only he sees the beginning and the end at the same time. He touches those who ask for help or need guidance in ways to maximize the number of souls he can save at the end of (our)time. You ARE in control, and God DOES answer (sometimes yes and sometimes no) and he already knows your response because he is OUTSIDE OF TIME and already sees your response.
He's waiting for those who are lost to start looking. People who say they don't see God in their life, aren't looking. I lost a son a few years back of which I was devistated. I felt God had let me down. But looking back to the year leading up to that moment in time, I had realized God was already at work preparing me for the loss of my son. I can't give you a list of it all, but I see his hand in my life.
Science also has proven more than athiests wish to admit. If they were to study, then combine science and mathmatics (basically Microbiology(DNA), Physics,Quantum Physics and Statistical Mathmatics) they would discover something startling.
RAM the firefly fan.

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Monday, March 6, 2006 7:44 AM

HAZE

Quote:
Originally posted by SevenPercent:
You know, it's funny; I wasn't going to post in this thread after reading it a bit (especially after the person who started it went off on what can only be an LSD inspired rant consigning Sig to the depths of hell), but I changed my mind. I'm a Christian, and by God, I have something to say.

I always wonder (especially in the neocon evangelical era) what happened to the Christianity I grew up with. I can rememner hearing things like "turn the other cheek," and "beating swords to plowshares," and sacrificing ourselves to serve others. I remember "hate the sin, not the sinner," and "be not like the hypocrites that pray in the streets." I remember the Resurrection was about hope and salvation.

Now look at what we have. We bomb people in the name of God (don't think we do? Our fearless leader preaches that he follows God's direction). We torture, and think that it's okay to live in fear. We have protestors that show up waving signs that say "God hates fags." God hates? Since when? Last time I checked, Jesus was about free love and forgiveness. We have people in Missouri trying to create state sponsored religion, and people screaming on television about how good a worshipper they are. Now, people are waiting for the second coming not with hope, but with an attitude of "watch me go to Heaven in the rapture, all you corrupted souls, as I laugh while you suffer." What kind of attitude is that?

I'm sorry, but Christians have become decidedly un-Christian as of late, including the thread's OP, who ranted about someone going to hell. The fact that you praised the 700 club, whose leader (isn't that Pat Robertson?) called for an assassination of a Supreme Court judge and the Venezuelan President, makes me shudder in incredulity.

Sorry, but as the so-called "evangelicals" have taken control, I've shifted farther and farther left go get away from them. I wonder what Jesus would have done - but I doubt it would be to kill or hate anyone.

7%

------------------------------------------
He looked bigger when I couldn't see him.

Anyone wanting to continue a discussion off board is welcome to email me - check bio for details.

As I said in the atheism tread, God becomes what the men who use his name want him to be. They can flick true the book find a line that supports there beliefs and prejudices and proclaim that God hates what they hate.

As I said before the fault is not with God the fault is with man.

--------------------------------------------------
Who do you suppose is in there?

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Monday, March 6, 2006 8:05 AM

NNY

I am not a christian. I will get that out right now. I have no problem with christianity or it's followers, but I have chosen a different path. I have several friends that are Christians, and we, on a regular basis, have "debates" with the understanding that we are not attempting to convert one another, but merely come to a better understanding of the others viewpoint. I find it hard to believe that there isn't a higher force, and as such, I am a very spiritual man. What I don't understand, however, is why all this intolerance runs rampant. It was mentioned, in essence, by the originator of this thread that non believers will burn. It was mentioned that there was proof. No.. no there isn't. Quantum physics, as mentioned by another member of this thread, bears proof. No, again, it doesn't. Through quantum physics, science does come closer to a union with faith, but it does not prove christianity, nor does it prove any other faith. It merely proves that there is more to this world than any of us can truly understand. That is the beauty of Quantum Physics, every answer is really 3 more questions. There will be no winner to this argument of faith, for the questions brought forth by these aspects of our lives will only be answered in our deaths, when we pass on to whatever awaits us on the other side. Science cannot prove faith, never has been able to, never will be able to. To live without having to ask ourselves these questions of our respective faiths would really nullify the point, wouldn't it? Everyone is going to believe what they want to believe and it is in no way our responsibility, or even our right, to tell people they are wrong about what they believe in. Now, you can look at my post and be angered by it, but all I ask is before you send a response telling me I am going to burn in hell, is that you ask yourself what use there would be in saying that. Accept thy brother despite his faults, as they say.

The height of arrogance is the height of creating GOD in one's own image.

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Monday, March 6, 2006 8:08 AM

GAMMARAYGIRL

Quote:
Originally posted by ram:
Some
Science also has proven more than athiests wish to admit. If they were to study, then combine science and mathmatics (basically Microbiology(DNA), Physics,Quantum Physics and Statistical Mathmatics) they would discover something startling.
RAM the firefly fan.

I have been desperately trying not to comment on this thread, but I just can't help myself. I promise to be good. The statistical mechanics and god talk reminded me of a dorky joke. It's not meant to offend, just offer a little funny.

Thermodynamic Question: Is Hell Exothermic or Endothermic?

If you don't know the answer, then please read the following response. Dr.Schambaugh, of the Oklahoma School of Chemical Engineering, is known for asking questions such as "why do airplanes fly?" on his final exams. His one and only final exam question in May 1997 for his Momentum, Heat and Mass Transfer II course was "Is Hell exothermic or endothermic? Support your answer with proof."

Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Law or some variant. One student, however, wrote the following:

First, we postulate that if souls exist, then they must have some mass. If they do, then a mole of souls can also have a mass. So, at what rate are souls moving into Hell and at what rate are souls leaving? I think we can safely assume that once a soul gets to Hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for souls entering Hell, let's look at the different religions that exist in the world today. Some of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, then you will go to Hell. Since there are more than one of these religions and people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all people and souls go to Hell.

With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially. Now, we look at the rate of change in volume in Hell. Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same, the ratio of the mass of souls and volume needs to remain constant.

Two options exist:

1. If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase until all Hell breaks loose.

or,

2. If Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in Hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until all Hell freezes over.

So which is it? If we accept the quote given to me by Theresa Manyan during Freshman year, "that it will be a cold night in Hell before I sleep with you," and take into account that I have still not succeeded in having sexual relations with Theresa, then Option 2 cannot be true.

Thus, hell is exothermic.

The student got the only A in the course.

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Monday, March 6, 2006 8:14 AM

MATTCOZ

I'm a Chistian, but I don't believe that I should be confined to the rules of any man-made religion. I go to a Catholic church because that is how I was brought up, but it is the core belief that is the important thing. Human beings are flawed creatures, as long as you believe in something and live a good life, everything will be ok. As Shepherd says "I don't care what you believe in, just believe in it."

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Monday, March 6, 2006 8:39 AM

OMEGADARK

I'm a Christian....

I have to say, I am sure some of those who are preaching 'salvation through my way or the highway" will be quite suprised to see who is in heaven and who is not....

Seems everyone forgets that love has no biased...that rain falls on the wicked also...so pride is the sin one falls into when they say,

"you are saved ONLY IF...blah blah blah" If you know this for a fact, well then Hi God! Where have you been all these years?

-OD

Relax...there's still tomorrow

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Monday, March 6, 2006 8:57 AM

RAM

OK i'll admit... if there is one thing that could be noted as poor choice of words, it was using the word "prove" or versions thereof. But there is information (if looked at closely) that could help show the probability of lifes existance with or without the involvement of a higher being. Attach what ever religeon you chose to believe in after that notion.
I just happen to chose Christian. We are after all free to chose.
Also in reference to the person behind the exothermal hell; I had seen that before and found it quite humours and smart. I haven't quite determined whether it's creative genious or creative fiction. (I'm leaning fiction on this one).

I am human and flawed as well. I was just looking to give some help to those who still are confused as to the meaning of life. (No... I'm not making reference to "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy").

The real question I have here is; What is the latest word on Firefly/Serenity? This stuff is too good to let go.

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Monday, March 6, 2006 9:40 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by cartoon:
I never bothered going into the atheist thread because I'm not an atheist and it's not my place to interefere with them. Unfortunately, they don't feel the need to reciprocate, and seem to jump at the chance to stir up a rucuss in Christian threads. This was a lesson I learned all too well when I first went into Christian chat rooms years ago. I won't do so anymore, because (unfortunately) they are generally overrun by nonbelievers who just want to offend believers.

If you had gone into the Atheist thread, you would have seen that there were plenty of "believers" trying to force their faith, uninvited. The certainly seemed to be causing a "ruccus".

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, March 6, 2006 9:41 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
I asked for the proof that you keep refering to,

I wanted to say something about the "proof" of God or lack of God and such and so on.

In 1990 I travelled to England. Up until the moment the plane landed and I got out, England's existance was a matter of faith. Sure I'd heard about it, read about it, met people who'd 'been there', seen picture of 'England' and such. Now as I sit here having experianced it, I can testify that England does exist, but I can't prove it...

God is pretty much the same way. Not that God is England or anything, but you get the idea. Although I did visit France as well and I'm fairly certain that France is in fact the entrance to biblical hell (what with the good food and cool paintings and such).

H

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Monday, March 6, 2006 9:41 AM

CITIZEN

Please bear in mind I'm not trying to attack you or anything, these threads have the danger of turning nasty and I'm not in the mood for a flame war

...

Quote:
Originally posted by RAM:
Science also has proven more than athiests wish to admit. If they were to study, then combine science and mathmatics (basically Microbiology(DNA), Physics,Quantum Physics and Statistical Mathmatics) they would discover something startling.

Like? You're going to have to back that one up I'm afraid, I've done what you suggested and I've yet to find a manufactures stamp like "Made in Eden, (C)God. Eden is a trademark of Divine interventions inc."

Quote:
The real question I have here is; What is the latest word on Firefly/Serenity? This stuff is too good to let go.

Best luck for that one is one the General Discussions and the like. Here it's mainly musings on the fact that I must be an Islamic terrorist because I don't think Islam and all Muslims are evil sub-human scum and must be burnt, preferably at the stake, Alive.

The other boards here tend to be a bit more chilled than these ones too.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
You should never give powers to a leader you like that you’d hate to have given to a leader you fear

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Monday, March 6, 2006 9:45 AM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
God is pretty much the same way. Not that God is England or anything, but you get the idea. Although I did visit France as well and I'm fairly certain that France is in fact the entrance to biblical hell (what with the good food and cool paintings and such).

Good food? No way was that France H. Not unless you like badly cooked Horse meat and raw mouldy snails...

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
You should never give powers to a leader you like that you’d hate to have given to a leader you fear

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Monday, March 6, 2006 10:34 AM

JONUS

I am a Christian, I do believe in God but in my opinion you can't prove with science that God exists. It's all about faith.

I'm a Jedi.
I'm a Ringer.
I'm a BROWNCOAT.

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Monday, March 6, 2006 10:42 AM

SIGMANUNKI

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:

I asked for the proof that you keep refering to,

I wanted to say something about the "proof" of God or lack of God and such and so on.

In 1990 I travelled to England. Up until the moment the plane landed and I got out, England's existance was a matter of faith. Sure I'd heard about it, read about it, met people who'd 'been there', seen picture of 'England' and such. Now as I sit here having experianced it, I can testify that England does exist, but I can't prove it...

God is pretty much the same way. Not that God is England or anything, but you get the idea. Although I did visit France as well and I'm fairly certain that France is in fact the entrance to biblical hell (what with the good food and cool paintings and such).

H

Actually, someone could have bought you a ticket and said "Here you go. Go to England." This is provable as you just described a proof.

What I'm looking from this person, isn't necessarily some perfect logic that "proves" god exists. More along the lines of, do this, and it'll show itself, and there will be no doubt.

EDIT: There are many different kinds of proof IRL.

----
"We're in a giant car heading into a brick wall at 100 miles/hr and everybody's arguing about where they want to sit."
-David Suzuki

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Monday, March 6, 2006 10:44 AM

SIGMANUNKI

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:
Leelu7777:
Ok, what just happened?

reckon he/she was replying to that upbeat river gal.

Maybe, but I got the notification for both replies.

----
"We're in a giant car heading into a brick wall at 100 miles/hr and everybody's arguing about where they want to sit."
-David Suzuki

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Monday, March 6, 2006 11:02 AM

SIGMANUNKI

Quote:
Originally posted by cartoon:

People have been rejecting it from the dawn of time, and it would be presumptuous on our parts to think we can present it any better than even God's own son (who was rejected, too).

Um, don't you mean for about 2000 year, not "from the dawn of time"? Because Christianity has only been around that long. And that's even if you consider it from the birth of the mythical Jesus. If you count it from the first churches, start counting a little bit later.

Quote:
Originally posted by cartoon:

Unfortunately, they don't feel the need to reciprocate, and seem to jump at the chance to stir up a rucuss in Christian threads.

So, we're all "they" now. Generalize much?

And I do find that this comment is rather hypocritical. Christians start as much in non-Christian threads as non-Christians do in Christian threads.

If you don't do it, then the more power to you (and thanks). Just don't say that it is only a one way thing. Stating that is just profoundly ignorant.

Quote:
Originally posted by cartoon:

Oh. And we can also pray for those who attack us because of our beliefs.

(Not an easy thing to do, but required of us, nonetheless).

Personally, I'd rather you didn't. At least in my case.

IMO, it is common courtesy to ask before doing something of this nature.

I mean, how many times has it happened that someone tries to help someone else, but just makes the situation worse because of there "help."

I believe the quote is something like, "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions."

----
"We're in a giant car heading into a brick wall at 100 miles/hr and everybody's arguing about where they want to sit."
-David Suzuki

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Monday, March 6, 2006 11:10 AM

SIGMANUNKI

Quote:
Originally posted by ram:

Science also has proven more than athiests wish to admit. If they were to study, then combine science and mathmatics (basically Microbiology(DNA), Physics,Quantum Physics and Statistical Mathmatics) they would discover something startling.
RAM the firefly fan.

Ok, I'm a math major and have studied physics as well. So, I stand a chance at understanding this. Care to give a reference? I'd like to give a gander at this stuff.

----
"We're in a giant car heading into a brick wall at 100 miles/hr and everybody's arguing about where they want to sit."
-David Suzuki

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Monday, March 6, 2006 12:14 PM

OMEGADARK

Isn't it funny that a major point of this post is about proof of God to those who think that 'proving' it would actually change anything?

It is amazing to see how many people will stick to their reality despite all the proof of something or not....especially now that people have 'officially' stated their views...

Would any of those who don't believe really become ardent believers? Huh? eh?

Anyone ever read anything from Pirandello?

-OD

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Monday, March 6, 2006 12:53 PM

SIGMANUNKI

@OmegaDark:
Actually I haven't. Aside from one of my posts saying cannot instead of have not and another using "us"/"we" or somesuch (tireness if funny sometimes), I haven't stated one way or the other.

I just stated that I want to see the proof. Because, every time one of these threads gets posted, all the "believers" come out and talk about "the proof of god's existance". Yet fail to provide anything besides telling us that this proof exists.

Just stating something doesn't make it true. I want to see the proof. I will not just take someones word for it.

To use a silly example, if I believed something everytime someone told me something was true without requiring proof, I'd believe that the sky was purple and the world was made of puppies.

And quite frankly, every new thread that this happens in, is just more evidence to me that states that there is no proof. After all, if there was proof, and it was so compelling, why wouldn't someone just post it?

And no, that isn't evidence that I don't believe in god. It's just proof that I don't believe that god's existance can be proven. There is a difference. I will continue to believe this until shown otherwise.

----
"We're in a giant car heading into a brick wall at 100 miles/hr and everybody's arguing about where they want to sit."
-David Suzuki

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Monday, March 6, 2006 1:22 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:

Ok, what just happened?

Just an aside FYI, I believe Leelu7777 is the poster formerly known as Ngudu (See: "New fans will suck", in Troll Country).

Sherlock Chrisisall

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Monday, March 6, 2006 1:28 PM

RIVER6213

***River6213 has very dark thoughts concerning God and his bot army***

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Monday, March 6, 2006 1:38 PM

CARTOON

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
And no, that isn't evidence that I don't believe in god. It's just proof that I don't believe that god's existance can be proven. There is a difference. I will continue to believe this until shown otherwise.

To a certain point I agree with what you said above -- and I say this as one who does believe.

As a believer, I have no doubt that God will someday prove His existence in a way which cannot be denied -- but not until after we're dead, are facing Him, and it's too late for anyone to change anything.

The Bible says that "without faith it's impossible to please God". I believe that's why He gives us a multitude of things which point toward His existence, but not the sort of thing that most people would embrace as "proof".

He also promises that if we seek Him with all our hearts, He will be found. (He doesn't hide from those who genuinely seek Him on His terms -- truly repentant and needy of His grace.)

Although, I imagine that most people wouldn't believe it even if God walked the earth in human form and did miraculous signs which no human could ever do. Oops. Wait a minute! He did do that, and most people, even faced with these miraculous things done right before their very eyes, still refused to believe.

I'm not talking about people like you or I who have had to hear of these things second hand, removed a few millennia, but the people who were living at the time and saw them as they happened, yet still doubted. Really shows the hardness our stubborn, rebellious human hearts, doesn't it? (And I include myself in that category, as well.)

In summary, I believe there are plenty of indicators throughout creation which point to a sovereign Creator (and also that He's spoken to us through His word, the Bible), but "proof" that would convince a skeptic (or actually any of us apart from His grace)? Probably not in this life.

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Monday, March 6, 2006 1:41 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

A few thoughts:

I’ve not read any posts by Cartoon that ever made me feel like he/she was either a nut or an extremists. Anymore then any of the rest of us.

It is vanity that leads man to defend his or her religion. And vanity that leads him to deny the existence of god.

Is there some reason that human souls must have mass?

Buying a ticket to England is not proof that England exists; only proof that someone sold you a ticket there. I once saw an ad to purchase plots of land on Mars. Not that Mars doesn’t exist, but I’m pretty sure the deeds were meaningless nonetheless.

I want to see proof that god doesn’t exist. I guess we’ll all have to get used to disappointment.

And I don’t think that it is anyone else’s business who I pray for or don’t pray for.

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Monday, March 6, 2006 1:47 PM

CHRISISALL

God(s) may or may not exist, but there's one thing I am sure of; The Bible is a work of MAN, not God, and as such deserves all the serious attention that your name suggests, Cartoon.
The historical parts are cool, but the brimstone stinks

Chrisisall

Please note: (Cartoon, do not read this) I have no real ill will towards the Bible, it works for many- just seein' if I can get some flame off of Cartoon...

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Monday, March 6, 2006 1:55 PM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
I’ve not read any posts by Cartoon that ever made me feel like he/she was either a nut or an extremists.

I have. At the very least he's an ignorant arsehole.

Quote:
I want to see proof that god doesn’t exist.

I remember you telling me about burden of proof once being on those making the claim, not the other way around...

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
You should never give powers to a leader you like that you’d hate to have given to a leader you fear

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Monday, March 6, 2006 1:55 PM

FLETCH2

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
A few thoughts:

Is there some reason that human souls must have mass?

It was a physics class (thermo dynamics I think she said.) Wave/particle duality suggests that everything that's real must have mass, even if that mass is almost infinately small. Quanta of energy has mass, the messager particles that make forces work have mass (we suppose) so if a soul is real it has mass.

It's an assumption based on what physics considers real.

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Monday, March 6, 2006 2:08 PM

CITIZEN

Actually Photons along with other theoretical Quanta (the Graviton in Quantum Gravity for instance) have zero rest mass. It's also theoretically possible to have a particle with negative or imaginary mass, such as the Tachyon.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
You should never give powers to a leader you like that you’d hate to have given to a leader you fear

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Monday, March 6, 2006 2:08 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
I remember you telling me about burden of proof once being on those making the claim, not the other way around...

Yep.

Quote:
Originally posted by Fletch2:
It was a physics class (thermo dynamics I think she said.) Wave/particle duality suggests that everything that's real must have mass, even if that mass is almost infinately small. Quanta of energy has mass, the messager particles that make forces work have mass (we suppose) so if a soul is real it has mass.

It's an assumption based on what physics considers real.

I think souls are neutrinos.

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Monday, March 6, 2006 2:28 PM

SAMEERTIA

You mean the world isn't made up of puppies?
I'm so lost!

But seriously-
Am I a Christian?
I believe that there was a man called Jesus who fought against corruption of the church, and taught lessons of love and forgiveness.

Do I believe that "Whoesoever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life"? Not exactly.
I think the words have been taken over the years to mean things that Jesus never said, intended in ways that Jesus never meant.

Christianity has parallels in every other religion in the world, even the Dreamtime of the Australian Aborigine. By looking beyond just what man has written that Christ said, and looking for those parallels, I think we can find the real truth of God/Goddess for ourselves.

Perhaps I'm wrong. Perhaps God made me bisexual and gave me chronic asthma to punish me for believing that He has different faces, and that it matters not what face we place to the belief as long as we just believe.

But I don't believe so. I believe that I was given challenges to make me stronger, to remind me that I'm only a human being in this lifetime.

I think if I walk and breathe and take each step with the heart of the Goddess and the intention to do no wrong, but to nurture and care for my fellow humans and for the earth which we have been gifted- If I can do that, then it is not the face that I believed in or the name I gave to it, but the way in which I lived my life that will matter in the end.

So, am I a Christian? Not as such as defined by the Methodist church of my childhood.
Do I believe in Jesus? Absolutely.

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