'Go ahead, make my day.' by chrisisall

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

'Go ahead, make my day.'

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Saturday, March 11, 2006 04:57
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Thursday, March 9, 2006 5:57 AM

The fact that Ronald (bad actor) Regan won the election was nothing compared to this.
He used a line from the Dirty Harry movie 'Sudden Impact' to challenge the submission of a new tax bill.

That was the moment for me when the American Presidency hopped on this slppery slope, and it's been downhill ever since. (My appologies to Dreamtrove, I know you're somewhat of a fan of Reagan n' Bush)
So we also got Iran-Contra.

Then with Bush Sr we got typical upper-management CIA style action:
"Intel that Saddam is massing for an attack of Kuwait? Nonsense! Satelite images of his days long march into Kuwait? Umm..it's cloudy.
HEY! Saddam's IN KUWAIT!!! We must act NOW!!!"
It works if ya work it.

Then Clinton "What's Whitewater?"

Now Bush "Isn't intel what's in my Playstation?"

What is yet to come?

Not funny Chrisisall

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Thursday, March 9, 2006 6:49 AM

CARTOON

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
The fact that Ronald (bad actor) Regan won the election was nothing compared to this.
He used a line from the Dirty Harry movie 'Sudden Impact' to tempt a crossing of his 'line in the sand'

Did Reagan really say that? Geesh. I wonder where I was at the time... (I'm not doubting you, it's just that I haven't heard it previously, and I'm old enough to remember. I voted for him in 1980.) Can you tell me when and where he said this (just for my own personal reference)? Thanks.

If he did say that, it was wrong of him to do so. Doesn't take away my respect for the man, though. If everything I've ever said was recorded and played back for posterity, I'd probably want to go away and hide forever. (I'm sure even you have said things which you wish you could've taken back?)

I think Reagan was one of the 20th century's greatest leaders, and I truly miss him.

BTW, I haven't seen too many of his films, but there is one film of his where (in my opinion) his performance was outstanding. As a matter-of-fact, I put the film in my top 100 list solely based on his performance in it. Have you seen "King's Row"?

Reagan's role isn't the main character (he was played by Robert Cummings), but IMO, Reagan's performance outshines everyone else in the cast.

The film is kind of disturbing, but I was incredibly impressed by Reagan's performance in it. The other films I'd seen him in were nothing to phone home about, but this one was quite good.

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Thursday, March 9, 2006 12:08 PM

DREAMTROVE

None taken, Chris.

But the whole situation is more complicated than that. Reagan can't have been one of the greatest leaders, he was no leader at all. He was an actor, to the core.

What happened here is so complicated, I need to lay out what I understand in points. Everyone takes a fairly simple approach. The simplest is 'left good,' 'right bad' or the converse, which though might work most of the time, is bound to fail. The more complicated is 'him good,' 'him bad,' but it still fails. A little more complicated is 'he's in group X, she's in group Y,' but it still doesn't explain the whole situation.

Relationships are tenuous and change over time.

G.H.W. Bush spent some time kicking himself up through his daddy's organization, the GOP. By 1980 he was ready to run for the presidency and win, when something unexpected happened:

A group of democrats fled the DNC and joined the republican party to forward a candidate to office with the help of christian church voting blocks. Separation of church and state aside, this presented another problem: None of the delegates were prepared to vote for what they saw as 'a coup' in spite of the overwhelming vote totals Reagan's christians had reeled in.

A huge fight ensued. Behind Reagan were all of the people now behind W., Cheney and Rummy, who had been non-partisans prior to joining the GOP, and Wolfowitz and Perle who had been Social Dems, and all of whom having some ties to socialist organizations. Collectively, these people are the ones we now refer to as the 'neocons.'

But the reality of the vote total was hard to argue, and for fear of a party split, they worked out a compromise: Reagan/Bush.

The Social Dem crowd was furious. They hated Bush Sr. with a passion. They feared, and rightly so, that Bush Sr. would be a more powerful player than Reagan, and would stack the govt. So they pressured Reagan to appoint particular key members of themselves, to oversee the influx of the sort of people they wanted in govt. A fair number of truly awkward appointements occurred, including a couple of members of the power structure of the American Communist party to moderately high govt positions.

But Bush owed many favors to traditional republicans, and ideologically, he was himself fairly moderate. He pressured Reagan to appoint some of these people, and for *that reason* and no other, the Reagan Administration turned out okay.

But, Chris, you are absolutely right, the decay was on its way. Through the years they attempted to persuade Bush Sr. of their way, which they really failed in, but they did persuade him that they had power, and he needed their help.

In 1988 they, the neocons still, backed Dole in a primary campaign against Bush Sr., and lost. Bush didn't kick them out of govt., which he probably should have. It's quite possible that they 'arranged' to mislead Saddam Hussein as to what the US would do if he invaded Kuwait. At any rate, they were absolutely furious with Bush Sr. for not invading Iraq itself, which had been on their agenda since the 70s.

They supported Clinton, and may have arranged the three way split. Later on, they continued to work on Bush Sr., and drew him in, and *now* he's more or less a member of the team, but he will never be someone they trust. It was suggested that Bush Jr. send Sr. in place of Bolton, who is an original neocom team member, and W. discarded it out of hand.

But this is really just one notable jump in the gradual increase of neocon power. They supported the watergate campaign to get Ford into office, and may have staged the whole affair for that purpose. This is when Rummy and Cheney became republicans, but most of the neocon team remained democrats, and bacame prominant in the Carter administration. Some are still democrats. COllectively, the neocons and the new social democrats are who I call "team evil."

But it's safe to say each administration has been a gradual increase in the power of evil. Ford was the first foot in the door, a couple of evil footsoldiers, which is all Rummy and Cheney were to the movement at that time, then in Carter, more members jumping in. Reagan was actually there pick, but he had little power, and then With Bush Sr. they lost Reagan, but still held possibly more sway, and then Clinton was a big jump to having their own pick in an actual position of power (Clinton was a peripheral memebr of some of those circles in the 70s,) and then with W. they got their own pick who they had complete control over, plus one of their own original members as VP.

Logically, team evil power could increase from here. If we have President Perle, VP Wolfowitz and Senator Kristol, etc. there would be no check at all on the agenda, it would go full steam ahead. "Today we'll seize google, and use it's profits to fund the genocide of the arab race by biowarfare" or whatever.

Stopping them before we get to that point would be a good idea.

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Friday, March 10, 2006 5:05 AM

CHRISISALL

Thanks, DT, for that most detailed account of the order of events. I sometimes focus on the 'puppet theatre' and forget the backstage.

Sombnambulent Chrisisall

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Friday, March 10, 2006 5:16 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by cartoon:

I think Reagan was one of the 20th century's greatest leaders, and I truly miss him.

Okay, I made an error, it wasn't said to the bad Arabs like in my distant memory...(I'll fix the original post...)

"I have only one thing to say to the tax increasers: Go ahead, make my day." —March 13, 1985, in a speech threatening to veto legislation raising taxes.

I just remember rolling my eyes as he spoke on TV.
BTW, he was no leader, he was a mouthpeice. A very good and effective mouthpeice. Like Bush Jr.

Don't mean to dump on your hero, mine's Bruce Lee, and yeah, he had plenty of faults, too.

Do you feel lucky Chrisisall

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Friday, March 10, 2006 5:58 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by cartoon:

BTW, he was no leader, he was a mouthpeice. A very good and effective mouthpeice. Like Bush Jr.

Don't mean to dump on your hero, mine's Bruce Lee, and yeah, he had plenty of faults, too.

Do you feel lucky Chrisisall

I don't think that Bush Jr. is a very good or effective mouthpiece.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Friday, March 10, 2006 6:12 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:

I don't think that Bush Jr. is a very good or effective mouthpiece.

You're right, of course. I meant to say that Bush is just a mouthpeice, as was Regan, but at least Regan was a good and effective one.

To read makes our speaking English better Chrisisall

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Friday, March 10, 2006 6:58 AM

OMEGADARK

Quote:

I don't think that Bush Jr. is a very good or effective mouthpiece.

Ha...man that was funny...mouthpiece...

Bush....

Man oh man thats funny

-OD

*take the comment anyway you like...

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Friday, March 10, 2006 7:04 AM

CHRISISALL

OmegaDark, you are a strange one.

Chrisisall

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Friday, March 10, 2006 10:53 AM

OMEGADARK

what can i say

-OD

X

(I can't read or write)

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Friday, March 10, 2006 2:19 PM

CARTOON

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Don't mean to dump on your hero, mine's Bruce Lee, and yeah, he had plenty of faults, too.

It's okay. Everyone is entitled to their opinion -- and no one will ever convince me otherwise about Mr. Reagan.

BTW, Bruce Lee was cool. I actually watched "The Green Hornet" first run, and even had a toy of the car.

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Saturday, March 11, 2006 4:57 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by cartoon:

BTW, Bruce Lee was cool. I actually watched "The Green Hornet" first run, and even had a toy of the car.

Me too!! When the kids would play superheroes, I didn't want to be Batman or Superman; I wanted to be Kato!

Chrisisall, lost his Black Beauty...

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