My U.S. Presidential Ranking by Skywalken

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My U.S. Presidential Ranking

POSTED BY: SKYWALKEN
UPDATED: Saturday, February 25, 2017 20:06
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Monday, March 27, 2006 6:43 AM

Here is my completely non-partisan and non-ideology based ranking of 40 of the U.S. presidents. Because their presidencies were very brief, William Henry Harrison and James Garfield are not included in the ranking.

- Great -

George Washington

Abraham Lincoln

Thomas Jefferson

Ronald Reagan

- Near Great -

Theodore Roosevelt

Dwight Eisenhower

James Polk

Andrew Jackson

William McKinley

James Monroe

- Above Average -

George W. Bush

Franklin Roosevelt

Harry Truman

Woodrow Wilson

John Adams

John Kennedy

- Average -

James Madison

George H.W. Bush

Calvin Coolidge

Grover Cleveland

William Taft

Bill Clinton

Lyndon Johnson

Rutherford B. Hayes

- Below Average -

Gerald Ford

Richard Nixon

John Quincy Adams

Ulysses Grant

Chester Arthur

Martin Van Buren

Benjamin Harrison

Herbert Hoover

Zachary Taylor

Warren Harding

John Tyler

- Failure -

Jimmy Carter

Millard Fillmore

Franklin Pierce

Andrew Johnson

James Buchanan

What do you think? Agree or not agree?

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Monday, March 27, 2006 6:56 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Skywalken:
Here is my completely non-partisan and non-ideology based ranking of 40 of the U.S. presidents.
What do you think? Agree or not agree?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!
..non-ideaology *gasp* Bwahahahahahah!!!

Bush: FAILURE
Clinton: FAILURE
Regan: Charismatic PUPPETT, Great or Failure N/A
You: Joking, I hope, cause this stuff is funny!

ChrisisahHahahahahah

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Monday, March 27, 2006 12:00 PM

CARTOON

Naturally, rating the U.S. Presidents is a matter of opinion -- whether that opinion is yours, mine, Joe Schmoes, or whomever. I mean, some folks would say Napoleon was a great emperor, while others would say he was a failure. Likewise, some would say he was benevolent, while others a monster. And from my study of history, I'd say he could be characterized as a bit of all four.

That being said...

Quote:
Originally posted by Skywalken:
- Great -

George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Thomas Jefferson, Ronald Reagan

While Jefferson was certainly a great man by anyone's standards, I'm not all that impressed with his presidency. Separting the man as a whole from his presidency is hard for me, but I don't think his presidency was all that great in my opinion.

Just the fact that John Adams (whom I admire as a man, but was admittedly not a very effective president) loathed Jefferson, makes me tend to dislike him more, myself.

No argument on the others.

Quote:
Originally posted by Skywalken:
- Near Great -

Theodore Roosevelt, Dwight Eisenhower, James Polk, Andrew Jackson, William McKinley, James Monroe

TR was minimally "near great" -- I might even categorize him as "great" in my book. A bit too progressive for my tastes, he nonetheless stood up for what he believed (often against his own party -- as Churchill did), regardless the consequences. One has to admire that, and he easily ranks as one of my top 4 or 5.

Eisenhower, I think was just blessed to have been in the right place at the right time, and would've had to have been a bozo to have botched things up. Ike was a great administrator, and essentially left the petty details to everyone else. He didn't like Nixon, which in my book, is a black mark in his book, though.

Polk manufactured a war to get us some territory. Not a "nice" thing. He succeeded at what he wanted to achieve though, so I guess he can't be categorized as a "failure".

Jackson was a rogue. He was stubborn, hot-headed, and just liked to mess with people and get in their faces (a lot like LBJ). I don't think he would've gotten a single term (much less 2)(much less 3, if you count the 1824 election fiasco), if he hadn't been at New Orleans in 1815. He was a strong president, though, and didn't take any crap from anyone.

McKinley? If the Democrats had anyone decent, I don‘t see McKinley having been elected either time -- and that‘s accounting for the fact that the Democrats were only able to win the White House with one man in a more than 60 year period from the Civil War to WWI. (smirk)

Monroe had to clean up the previous Jimmy's mess, and did a decent enough job of it.

Quote:
Originally posted by Skywalken:
- Above Average -
George W. Bush, Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman, Woodrow Wilson, John Adams, John Kennedy

Being that the real name of this forum is the “I hate George W. Bush forum”, I applaud you for mentioning this (with which I happen to agree).

However, I think it’s a bit too early to judge the last three Presidents (in my opinion) -- but Bush could go higher in this list, or even drop a bit.

FDR. This is a tough one for me. I loathe his politics. You can’t go further to the left without falling off the far edge of the political spectrum. That being said, a lot of what he implemented was necessary at that time -- even though it screwed us royally down the road (and we’ll still be paying for it decades from now).
So, I both despise and admire him. One thing I can’t overlook though, is the way he let Eastern Europe fall into the hands of the Soviets. Granted, he was sick as a dog his last few months (and he never should‘ve received a 4th term in the health he was in), but if he couldn’t do the job, he should’ve appointed someone else with some teeth who could’ve stood up to the Soviets in his place -- and thereby totally avoided 4 decades of cold war and all that encompassed. I lay the whole cold war at FDR’s feet.

Truman was my Dad’s hero. I have to admit that I know very little about him, however. He seemed like a decent enough person, but I disagree with some of his politics. While I hold FDR as the primary reason for the debacle in Eastern Europe, Harry certainly didn’t help matters. Granted, FDR already sold Eastern Europe down the river before Truman arrived on the scene, but I still hold Harry somewhat accountable. Of course, to be fair, Harry didn’t have the advantage of hindsight and probably never imagined what would happen in Eastern Europe over the next four decades. Still, I can’t let him completely off the hook.

In a nearly 90 year span, only 2 Democrats gained the White House -- and Wilson was one of them. However, I maintain that if TR and Taft didn’t split the Republican party in 1912, Wilson never would’ve been elected (the split conservative candidates got more than 7.5 million votes to Wilson’s 6.2). I think Wilson botched the peace after WWI, which was largely responsible for WWII (the botched peace).

John Adams was a great man, but plagued with many problems -- not least of which was the fact that he succeeded Washington. Seriously, would you like to have been the guy to follow Washington? That’s like going on stage after Led Zeppelin. Geesh. Adams also wasn’t a schmoozer (which apparently, you have to be in order to be a politician), so he had trouble getting people over to his side.

JFK? I’d seriously rate him as a failure. If not for his assassination, few people today would even know who he is (as in President Gerald who?). Cuba was a debacle on his watch. He played chicken with the Soviets -- (and yeah, they backed down, but you don’t play chicken when the possible outcome is WWIII).
Also, JFK started the wheels rolling in Vietnam (which LBJ could’ve/should’ve stopped instead of escalating -- but still, JFK got the whole thing started).

Quote:
Originally posted by Skywalken:
- Average -

James Madison, George H.W. Bush, Calvin Coolidge, Grover Cleveland, William Taft, Bill Clinton, Lyndon Johnson, Rutherford B. Hayes

I basically agree with all of your choices here, with the possible exception of Coolidge. He wasn’t much on personality (and he did inherit one of the most robust economic periods in U.S. history), but I would say he was at least “average” (if not “above average”). To me, Coolidge did no less than Eisenhower (and probably would’ve been elected another term if he chose to run).

I hold Taft personally responsible for the Republican’s loss of the White House in 1912. I think TR would’ve easily been elected in Wilson’s place, and who knows how WWI would’ve turned out with TR in the White House (if it even happened at all -- who knows what TR might‘ve done to try to avert it -- he was a great diplomat and possibly could‘ve gotten the Kaiser in a headlock and made him see things more reasonably).

The “what if’s” of that scenario are unending…

Quote:
Originally posted by Skywalken:
- Below Average -

Gerald Ford, Richard Nixon, John Quincy Adams, Ulysses Grant, Chester Arthur, Martin Van Buren, Benjamin Harrison, Herbert Hoover, Zachary Taylor, Warren Harding, John Tyler

Well, you already know how I feel about Nixon. If not for Watergate, Nixon would be up there with TR. Unfortunately, Nixon was loathed by the press from day one (when he ran for his Congressional seat in the late 40’s) -- which caused him to be somewhat paranoid and neurotic -- which caused him to cover-up the actions of some overzealous fellows on his re-election committee (when what he should’ve done was clean house when he found out what they’d done). Nixon inherited one of the worst and most unstable periods in American history, and left the country in much better shape in 1974 than it had been in 1969. With the possible exception of Lincoln, no president before (or since) inherited a more contentious period.
Unfortunately, because he didn’t clean house (but covered up the actions of his men), he forever tainted the Presidency, and disillusioned the people of this country towards politics.

I think JQA was a lot like his Dad, and didn’t get along too well with others, or he may’ve had a better time of it. Also, considering that his opponent was a popular, over-blown, egotistical war hero (who Adams despised), didn’t make things any easier for him.

Grant was one of the finest men to hold that office. Unfortunately, he wasn’t cut out for politics, and never should’ve sought the Presidency -- which was clearly beyond his abilities.

Hoover got a bum rap for the depression. Could he have done more to help once it started? Yeah. Did he? No. Hoover was a good man, but wasn’t cut out to be a politician. Probably should’ve stayed in engineering.

Anyhow, I found this to be an interesting, thought-provoking thread, and I would be interested in why you’ve rated these Presidents as you have.

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Monday, March 27, 2006 12:53 PM

DREAMTROVE

A president has to be a shmoozer? So you didn't throw in that vote for Goldwater, huh?

But seriously, I basically agree with Cartoon, but I'll throw in my babble here.

Here is my completely non-partisan and non-ideology based ranking of 40 of the U.S. presidents. Because their presidencies were very brief, William Henry Harrison and James Garfield are not included in the ranking.

I'm omitting the reconstruction presidents up to garfield etc, because I just don't know enough about them. I'm afraid that these were more or less times of peace and prosperity, and so we learned less about them, but I guess for all of that they must've been okay.

- My Short Awesome List -

Republicans: JQA, TR, Coolidge, Eisenhower
Democrats: What, are you kidding?

- Flawed but overall very good -

Dem-Rep: Jefferson
Republicans: Harding, Nixon, Bush Sr. (Reagan, but I agree with PN that Reagan was just an actor who played president while Bush Sr. was president.)
Democrats: Carter.

- Probably sub-optimal -

Republicans: Hoover
Democrats: FDR

- Truly Amazingly Bad -

Republicans: George W. Bush may be the first...
Democrats: Jackson, Wilson, Truman, Johnson, Clinton.

-- afterthoughts --

Abraham Lincoln (R) was never president. If he had been, he would be somewhere in the mixed column. He can't be credited with the idea of abolish, only the accomplishment, but like removing Saddam, the right thing to do, but at what cost? But then Jefferson Davis (D) was also equally to blame, and was also 1/2 a president of 1/2 the US. (populationwise)

I would take all the reconstruction republicans and up them to a "B" and the reconstruction era democrats "C", if only because each democrat had a war. Otherwise, there was general peace, but persistant indian troubles.

Objectively the top category is for "peace and prosperity" which is the goal of a leader. Rights are in tact, no major disasters, no megadeath, no national poverty depression. Business grows, alliances are formed, diplomacy succeeds, war is averted, and even sometimes ended. Bush Sr. almost makes it up here except for his failure to avert war in the Kuwait situation. I don't disagree with the decision, but the signs were there, and if he had been Eisenhower, he would have positioned troops in Kuwait pre-emptively to prevent the invasion, thus averting the war.

My "truly terrible" presidents each initiated a policy which claimed in excess of one million lives. This is why I'm not sure if Bush goes there. I doubt he will actully make it into the truly terrible category, but I really do hate him.
He's just appallingly bad.

FDR's policies are not measurably different from Hoover's, so it's hard to rank them differently from eachother. Similarly I feel that about Bush and Clinton, with the slight addendum that Clinton *did* kill over 1 million.

Skywalken,

Why did Coolidge only rank "Average"? Actually, what is the basis of your ranking? Surely no one in American history has had a record as perfect as Calvin Coolidge on peace and prosperity. The nearest is Eisenhower, who immediately ended the conflict he inherited from Truman, who had started it because after intentionally dropping two nuclear bomns on civilian populations of a long term ally of the United States (I have to say that every time because it's so true) Truman felt that he hadn't had enough war. It's important to note that Truman made the kick to agressively upscale the conflict with Japan under FDR. Picture a world in which Stevenson had won in 1952, as Truman's pick, he would have been unable to bend from Truman's will, war would have continued in Korea in an agressive manner. Since this total fight and lose was the democratic way, always has been, we would have probably immediately gotten involved in other asian conflicts, the 50s as they were never would have happened, we would have become a nation run by the military complex, like the soviet union. Just a thought.

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Monday, March 27, 2006 12:59 PM

DREAMTROVE

Quote:
Hoover got a bum rap for the depression. Could he have done more to help once it started? Yeah. Did he? No. Hoover was a good man, but wasn’t cut out to be a politician.

I so totally disagree with this analysis.

I think Hoover made the depression single handedly out of whole cloth. By raising the Tax Rate from 10% to 30%, he caused the economic collapse. His reinstituting of the Wilson War Debt, which Coolidge had abolished, caused the collapse of the German economy. Finally Hoover's governmental spending was the worst increase we were to see until George W. Bush with the possible exception of LBJ, whose spending was horrible. What the people need is not "large scale social programs" what the people need is to be left alone.

It's the govt's job to protect the rights of the people. If it's doing something that doesn't fit that definition, it should be fired.

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Monday, March 27, 2006 1:05 PM

CARTOON

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
A president has to be a shmoozer? So you didn't throw in that vote for Goldwater, huh?

Couldn't vote in that one. I was too young.

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Monday, March 27, 2006 6:06 PM

SKYWALKEN

Quote:
Why did Coolidge only rank "Average"? Actually, what is the basis of your ranking? Surely no one in American history has had a record as perfect as Calvin Coolidge on peace and prosperity.

I agree that certainly Coolidge was a fine president, but one of the things I based the ranking on is how they dealt with challenges, especially foreign-based challenges. Coolidge didn't have the opportunity to deal with any significant challenges.

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Tuesday, March 28, 2006 5:28 AM

CARTOON

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
I so totally disagree with this analysis.

I think Hoover made the depression single handedly out of whole cloth. By raising the Tax Rate from 10% to 30%, he caused the economic collapse.

Hi, Dream.

Don't know where you got those figures, but I was pretty sure they were wrong. Here's what I could find (which isn't very much)(one would think you'd be able to find more on the net, but I can't)...

BTW, I added who was President at the time after the Maximum individual rate, as that didn't appear in the chart I found.

P.S. As if we already didn't know -- just look at which party is most notorious for raising taxes. The only exceptions being LBJ who suprisingly dropped the max. rate, and Bush Sr. who (as we all know) stupidly raised the rate.

YEAR MAX IND RATE
1913 7% Wilson (D)
1916 15% Wilson (D)
1917 67% Wilson (D)
1918 77% Wilson (D)
1920 65% Wilson (D)
1921 50% Harding (R)
1924 40% Coolidge (R)
1926 25% Coolidge (R)
1934 63% FDR (D)
1936 79% FDR (D)
1941 81% FDR (D)
1942 88% FDR (D)
1944 94% FDR (D)
1945 91% FDR/Truman (D)
1951 92% Truman (D)
1954 91% Eisenhower (R)
1964 77% LBJ (D)
1970 70% Nixon (R)
1981 50% Reagan (R)
1987 38.5% Reagan (R)
1988 28% Reagan (R)
1989-90 33% Bush Sr. (R)
1991-92 31% Bush Sr. (R)
1993-2000 39.6% Clinton (D)

Granted, this is the maximum individual rate. I couldn't find anything on the average individual rate.

Here's another source, as well...
http://winke.com/wts/wts./histusrt.htm

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Tuesday, March 28, 2006 2:00 PM

THIEFJEHAT

In response to the inital post on this thread:

I consider myself a passing-good presidental historian. The critera for determing the "great" presidents from the average ones and the failures is based on many things: charisma, crisis management, intellect, popularity, reforms brought about while in office, ability as chief commander, ability as a peacekeeper, and lots of other traits. When you weigh all these and rank the presidents (without ideology bias) your ranking listed is very close to my general opinion. I would submit the following changes

James K Polk be upgraded to "Great" He is a largely forgotten president who was, quite frankly, an astonishing leader.

William Taft be lowered to "Below average". He suffered horrible depression during his time in office because of Teddy Roosevelt's harrasment and he made several poor presidental choices because Teddy constantly had him "on tilt".

Grant be lowered to "failure" on the grounds that he was by far the most corrupted president of all time. It's a damn shame he's on the 50 dollar bill. I advocate that he be removed and replaced with Reagan.

Do not fear me. Ours is a peaceful race, and we must live in harmony.

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Wednesday, March 29, 2006 5:14 AM

DREAMTROVE

I think Taft did fine, and like TR, was a great president. They had their differences, but today looking back it was like fighting over whether to get a pizza to go with the movie or to get subs, when the opposition had a plan called, throw the movie away, tie everyone to chairs and set the house on fire. I think neither of them had truly considered how horrible Wilson was going to be.

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Wednesday, February 22, 2017 7:28 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Skywalken:
Here is my completely non-partisan and non-ideology based ranking of 40 of the U.S. presidents. Because their presidencies were very brief, William Henry Harrison and James Garfield are not included in the ranking.

- Great -

George Washington
Abraham Lincoln
Thomas Jefferson
Ronald Reagan

- Near Great -

Theodore Roosevelt
Dwight Eisenhower
James Polk
Andrew Jackson
William McKinley
James Monroe

- Above Average -

George W. Bush
Franklin Roosevelt
Harry Truman
Woodrow Wilson
John Adams
John Kennedy

- Average -

James Madison
George H.W. Bush
Calvin Coolidge
Grover Cleveland
William Taft
Bill Clinton
Lyndon Johnson
Rutherford B. Hayes

- Below Average -

Gerald Ford
Richard Nixon
John Quincy Adams
Ulysses Grant
Chester Arthur
Martin Van Buren
Benjamin Harrison
Herbert Hoover
Zachary Taylor
Warren Harding
John Tyler

- Failure -

Jimmy Carter
Millard Fillmore
Franklin Pierce
Andrew Johnson
James Buchanan

What do you think? Agree or not agree?

- Great -

George Washington
Abraham Lincoln
Thomas Jefferson
Ronald Reagan
James Monroe

- Near Great -

Theodore Roosevelt
Dwight Eisenhower
James Polk
John Kennedy
William McKinley

- Above Average -

George W. Bush
Millard Fillmore
Richard Nixon
James Madison
John Adams
Andrew Johnson

- Average -

George H.W. Bush
Calvin Coolidge
Grover Cleveland
William Taft
Andrew Jackson
Rutherford B. Hayes

- Below Average -

Harry Truman
John Quincy Adams
Ulysses Grant
Chester Arthur
Martin Van Buren
Benjamin Harrison
Herbert Hoover
Zachary Taylor
Warren Harding
John Tyler

- Failure -

Jimmy Carter
Woodrow Wilson
Bill Clinton
Lyndon Johnson
Franklin Pierce
Franklin Roosevelt
Gerald Ford
James Buchanan
Barack Hussein Obama

This would be closer to mine.

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Wednesday, February 22, 2017 8:29 PM

SOCKPUPPET

Why you necropost, JSF?

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Thursday, February 23, 2017 7:44 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by SOCKPUPPET:
Why you necropost, JSF?

Thread topic similar to a recent thread. Tie them together a bit. Greater sampling provides greater results.

http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57925

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Thursday, February 23, 2017 10:02 PM

RIVERLOVE

Quote:

- Failure -

Franklin Roosevelt

FDR was one of America's greatest Presidents, perhaps even the greatest. He faced both a devastating worldwide financial depression and a brutally savage world war. Through his unwavering resolve and strength of leadership America prevailed, and ultimately emerged as an economic and military super power. And he did it from a wheelchair crippled with polio.

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Saturday, February 25, 2017 4:57 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:
Quote:

- Failure -

Franklin Roosevelt

FDR was one of America's greatest Presidents, perhaps even the greatest.

Looks like everybody else in this thread has opened their eyes - they agree he was below average at best.
Quote:

He faced both a devastating worldwide financial depression

translation: he established and maintained a Great Depression, rivaled only by the recent Obama.
Quote:

and a brutally savage world war.

translation: he despicably was 2-faced about the War, pretending to be against it while sacrificing thousands of Servicemen and the Battleship Fleet to get us into it. Had Thomas E. Dewey been as treasonous as FDR in 1944 and won the election, the World would be a different place - the Cold War may have never happened, and Communism may have been defeated far sooner. But Dewey kept the secret that we had broken the Japanese codes before Pearl Harbor and FDR intentionally allowed the attack in order to spur his minions in the electorate to support the War, and thus Dewey lost the election. Had the American Electorate known FDR sacrificed Pearl for his political whims, he would have lost the election. He was like the Henry VIII of America.

How is it that the only 2 WORLD WARS occur during DEMOCRAT regimes, huh? Coincidence? Wake up.
Quote:

Through his unwavering resolve and strength

read: weaselness and treasonous
Quote:

of leadership America

suffered, until the spirit and determination of honest Americans
Quote:

prevailed, and ultimately emerged as an economic and military super power. And he

was a great philanderer and adulterer, and

Quote:

did it from a wheelchair crippled with polio.

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Saturday, February 25, 2017 5:04 PM

THGRRI

Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:
Quote:

- Failure -

Franklin Roosevelt

FDR was one of America's greatest Presidents, perhaps even the greatest. He faced both a devastating worldwide financial depression and a brutally savage world war. Through his unwavering resolve and strength of leadership America prevailed, and ultimately emerged as an economic and military super power. And he did it from a wheelchair crippled with polio.

---------------------

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Saturday, February 25, 2017 8:06 PM

DREAMTROVE

Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:
Quote:

- Failure -

Franklin Roosevelt

FDR was one of America's greatest Presidents, perhaps even the greatest. He faced both a devastating worldwide financial depression and a brutally savage world war. Through his unwavering resolve and strength of leadership America prevailed, and ultimately emerged as an economic and military super power. And he did it from a wheelchair crippled with polio.

Huh. I disagree. I'm surprised. I mean, not with what you said, but I have a lot of problems with FDR. In the spirit of a new leaf, edited, I'll just leave it at that, unless you actually care to know what they are. No need for me to rant about it.

Stay shiny

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