Jill Carroll by Zisker

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Jill Carroll

POSTED BY: ZISKER
UPDATED: Wednesday, April 5, 2006 18:56
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Thursday, March 30, 2006 10:26 AM

So, hey, a happy ending for once. I thought that amid the usual cynicism and bad juju that goes on it was nice to hear that someone didn't die for a change and doesn't seem too worse off from the ordeal. Because to be honest, I thought that girl was toast.

Fruit's Oaty Bar! Is a person from the mouse! Fruit's Oaty Bar! Makes your bust from yours female shirt! Continuously eats them! Let them cause you to be surprised!

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Thursday, March 30, 2006 11:09 AM

SKYWALKEN

The real tragedy of this ordeal is that from the way she's been talking since her release, it seem like she has a case of Stockholm Syndrome.

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Saturday, April 1, 2006 12:07 PM

SKYWALKEN

Quote:
Originally posted by Skywalken:
The real tragedy of this ordeal is that from the way she's been talking since her release, it seem like she has a case of Stockholm Syndrome.

I apologize to Ms. Carroll. Apparently she was forced to make the statements praising her captors.

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Saturday, April 1, 2006 2:53 PM

SKYWALKEN

She has released a statement:

I'm so happy to be free and am looking forward to spending a lot of time with my family. I want to express my deep appreciation to all the people who worked so long and hard for my release. I am humbled by the sympathy and support expressed by so many people during my kidnapping.

In the past few days, the U.S. military and officials have been extremely generous, and I am grateful for their help. Throughout this ordeal, many U.S. agencies have committed themselves to bringing me safely home.

My colleagues at The Christian Science Monitor have worked ceaselessly to secure my release, and worked with security consultants to do so. Many other news organizations, both inside and outside of Iraq, as well as many officials from Iraq and other countries, worked hard to bring about my freedom.

So many people around the world spoke out on my behalf.

Thank you, all of you.

During my last night of captivity, my captors forced me to participate in a propaganda video. They told me I would be released if I cooperated. I was living in a threatening environment, under their control, and I wanted to go home alive. So I agreed.

Things that I was forced to say while captive are now being taken by some as an accurate reflection of my personal views. They are not. The people who kidnapped me and murdered Alan Enwiya are criminals, at best. They robbed Alan of his life and devastated his family. They put me, my family and my friends _ all those around the world _ who have prayed so fervently for my release _ through a horrific experience. I was, and remain, deeply angry with the people who did this.

I also gave a TV interview to the Iraqi Islamic Party shortly after my release. The party had promised me the interview would never be broadcast or aired on television, and they broke their word. At any rate, fearing retribution from my captors, I did not speak freely. Out of fear I said I wasn't threatened. In fact, I was threatened many times.

Also, at least two false statements about me have been widely aired: One, that I refused to travel and cooperate with the U.S. military and two, that I refused to discuss my captivity with U.S. officials. Again, neither statement is true.

I want to be judged as a journalist, not as a hostage. I remain as committed as ever to fairness and accuracy _ to discovering the truth _ and so I will not engage in polemics. But let me be clear: I abhor all who kidnap and murder civilians, and my captors are clearly guilty of both crimes.

Now, I ask for the time to heal. This has been a taxing 12 weeks for me and for my family. Please allow us some quiet time alone, together.

_ Jill Carroll

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/3764467.html

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Sunday, April 2, 2006 2:58 AM

JONUS

The US didn't do shit to release her. I guess rescuing hostages is just too much on top of invading a country and dropping bombs on it.

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Sunday, April 2, 2006 9:00 AM

SKYWALKEN

Quote:
Originally posted by Jonus:
The US didn't do shit to release her. I guess rescuing hostages is just too much on top of invading a country and dropping bombs on it.

Ah, another person who wants to lick Saddam Hussein's ass.

Jonus, you just have to accept that your lover is locked up and on trial for his atrocities. I'm sure you will eventually get to make love to him in hell.

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Sunday, April 2, 2006 9:48 AM

SEVENPERCENT

Quote:
Originally posted by Skywalken:

Ah, another person who wants to lick Saddam Hussein's ass.

Jonus, you just have to accept that your lover is locked up and on trial for his atrocities. I'm sure you will eventually get to make love to him in hell.

Wow. I'm almost impressed, in a way. That has to be one of the nastiest attacks on a person I've seen in a while, and one that had nothing to to do with the target's post whatsoever. A comment on the role of the US military in Iraq (and in Carroll's rescue) followed up with a massive ad hominem calling Jonus a Saddam lover (and an ass-licking Saddam lover to boot).

Bet I wouldn't have to guess too hard as to which side of the 37% Bush approval rating you come down on.

------------------------------------------
He looked bigger when I couldn't see him.

Anyone wanting to continue a discussion off board is welcome to email me - check bio for details.

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Sunday, April 2, 2006 9:48 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Skywalken:

Ah, another person who wants to lick Saddam Hussein's

Jonus doesn't believe the U.S. has been handling the war or related situations well, how does that make someone a Saddam-lover?

Do you kiss Bush's bottom because you think we did a bang-up (pun intended) job in Iraq?
Er, strike that question...

Chrisisall

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Sunday, April 2, 2006 10:18 AM

CARTOON

Well, I think that the comment that the U.S. didn't do anything to help Miss Carroll's release was totally inappropriate, myself. Some folks just like dumping on the U.S. And while I believe people should be able to think and say what they like, I wonder how many ways these people who loathe the U.S. benefit from this country in one way or the other.

Also, the U.S. couldn't rescue someone whose whereabouts were unknown. If we can't find any of the hundreds of missing persons in our own country, how're we supposed to find a single person hidden in another country?

Some people just like to badmouth the U.S. at any opportunity -- and even invent opportunites when one doesn't conveniently lend itself to the situation.

So, I'm not going to shed any tears over a somewhat hostile reaction to a person who loathes this country by someone who obviously appreciates what we have here.

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Sunday, April 2, 2006 10:49 AM

CAUSAL

Quote:
Originally posted by Jonus:
The US didn't do shit to release her. I guess rescuing hostages is just too much on top of invading a country and dropping bombs on it.

Because it is just so incredibly easy to find the one house in all of Iraq where they're keeping the kidnapped journalist. Wait--and infiltrate the network that took her (if you can figure out which one it was). Or at least develop a contact (if you can find someone who knows who's got her and where they're keeping her AND is willing to risk their own neck talking to U.S. forces). Oh yeah, and put together an operation to grab her before the bastards move her again (what--you thought they'd be stupid enough to keep her in one place?). Oh, also, and make sure that your ass isn't getting blown off while you're spending time developing intel for this hostage rescue operation. Oh yeah, I forgot about the need to completely redirect intel collection efforts in order to work up all the necessary intel to perform all these operations. Not to mention that whatever SOF unit is tasked with the HR operation has to get clearance from whatever regular military unit actually owns the turf that the hostage is being held in (during which time they could move her).

What--you thought that you could just say, "Let's go get her, gang!", then hop in the Mystery Machine and rescue the poor thing? Or perhaps you believe that they just didn't want to? Or just maybe you don't know jack shit about Special Operations, the U.S. military operations in general, our involvement in Iraq (not the crap you see on CNN, mind you, I'm talking first-hand experience), the workings of the intelligence cycle and its role in Special Operations mission planning, or multi-service mission deconfliction. Because if you had any experience in these things, you would know how difficult it is to get the stars to align just right to enable an actual hostage rescue. If the enemy force is even half awake, he can hide his hostage--it isn't that hard.

Plus, unless you have sources that you haven't disclosed, you can't make the claim that the U.S. did nothing to release her. If you mean that the U.S. didn't negotiate for her release, you're right, and that's a very good thing--legitimizing terrorism by negotiation guarantees more terrorism. But if by nothing you mean that there were no attempts to rescue--no effort at all expended--well, that's just something we'll never know. Because the units that are involved with this sort of operation don't exactly advertise. Hell, they don't even exist, according to the U.S. government. So I seriously doubt there'll ever be a press release. Oh, yeah, plus the concept of Operations Securtiy precludes disclosing details of friendly operations to protect U.S./Allied forces from enemy intel collection and subsequent targeting. Guess we'll have to add that to the list of things you know nothing about.
________________________________________________________________________
I wish I had a magical wish-granting plank.

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Sunday, April 2, 2006 11:51 AM

SEVENPERCENT

Quote:
Originally posted by cartoon:
Well, I think that the comment that the U.S. didn't do anything to help Miss Carroll's release was totally inappropriate, myself. Some folks just like dumping on the U.S.

Take a look at how Causal responded for a glimpse at how Sky SHOULD have responded. Causal was short with him but still addressed his argument, which is what should have happened. But if you want to argue whether people who are hard on the administration hate this country, then in the words of the movie I'm watching, "I'm your Huckleberry."

Quote:
Some people just like to badmouth the U.S. at any opportunity -- and even invent opportunites when one doesn't conveniently lend itself to the situation.

So, I'm not going to shed any tears over a somewhat hostile reaction to a person who loathes this country by someone who obviously appreciates what we have here.

Was the original comment out of line? Maybe yes, maybe no, that's for a debate to decide, and Causal took it to him pretty good. But who the hell are you to decide who does or does not love their country? How the hell do you know? Answer: You don't, and have heard so many of Fox's talking points that you can no longer think for yourself. Some people - the vast majority even - are critical because they love their country, not the other way around.

Just being grateful to be an American doesn't make you a good one. I could say that blindly supporting whatever kool-aid points you're being spoon-fed makes you just as bad if not worse than any government critic out there. Every American should be critical of his (or her) government and how that government uses its armed forces. The day has already arrived that the Texan from New Haven has cost us respect and allies around the world that we'd be better off having. Adding to that the domestic

-ups, I'm baffled that the SOB still has people that think he's "doing a heckuva job."

So go right ahead and tell someone how they aren't a good American. Just remember how the old saying begins -
"First they came for the Catholics, but I wasn't a Catholic, so I said nothing...."

------------------------------------------
He looked bigger when I couldn't see him.

Anyone wanting to continue a discussion off board is welcome to email me - check bio for details.

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Sunday, April 2, 2006 11:53 AM

SASSALICIOUS

Quote:
Originally posted by Skywalken:

Ah, another person who wants to lick Saddam Hussein's ass.

Jonus, you just have to accept that your lover is locked up and on trial for his atrocities. I'm sure you will eventually get to make love to him in hell.

Wow. That was just slightly uncalled for. I wasn't aware that personal attacks are the appropriate response when someone says something that you don't agree with.

Quote:
So, I'm not going to shed any tears over a somewhat hostile reaction to a person who loathes this country by someone who obviously appreciates what we have here.

I'll admit that I don't know Jonus's personal feelings about this country or history on this board, but it is possible to loathe the current administration while still appreciating this country.

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Sunday, April 2, 2006 12:11 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by cartoon:
Some folks just like dumping on the U.S.
Some people just like to badmouth the U.S. at any opportunity

So.. dumping on any particular administration or it's actions is dumping on the U.S.?

Remind me never to have a tumor removed if I should ever develope one, that might be too anti-me.

Love my country Chrisisall

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Sunday, April 2, 2006 12:15 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:

What--you thought that you could just say, "Let's go get her, gang!", then hop in the Mystery Machine and rescue the poor thing?

Thaatsh righht, Schaggeey!
lol, you made your point hard, but you made it. I must agree, Causal.

Chrisisall

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Sunday, April 2, 2006 12:18 PM

CARTOON

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
So.. dumping on any particular administration or it's actions is dumping on the U.S.?

Anyone who read Jonus's initial remarks who doesn't think he was dumping on the U.S. certainly needs a course in reading comprehension.

But, then I know better than to expect anyone to think that such remarks as..."The US didn't do shit to release her. I guess rescuing hostages is just too much on top of invading a country and dropping bombs on it" isn't dumping on the U.S.

Maybe, I'm the one who needs the reading comprehension lessons.

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Sunday, April 2, 2006 12:20 PM

CAUSAL

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:

What--you thought that you could just say, "Let's go get her, gang!", then hop in the Mystery Machine and rescue the poor thing?
Thaatsh righht, Schaggeey!
lol, you made your point hard, but you made it. I must agree, Causal.

Chrisisall

My apologies to all (with a possible exception) if I came across as excessively harsh. As a former military man with 10 years of intelligence experience and 4 of special operations experience, with combat tours in Afghanistan and Iraq, I can not stand people running at the mouth about a subject of which they have absolutely no knowledge. Say anything you want about the politics of the war (I'm ambivalent myself), but don't go to criticizing the ground-level execution of the thing. Until you know what a man looks like through the sights of a gun, you really don't know what combat is like.

________________________________________________________________________
I wish I had a magical wish-granting plank.

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Sunday, April 2, 2006 12:22 PM

ZISKER

*sigh* See, this is what I was hoping would not happen. Are people so divided or jaded or cynic or what have you these days that we can't just find some small amount of good in the fact that someone had a happy (relative, of course) ending?

Regardless of whether or not the US played a role in the release (Honestly, I couldn't care less) or what she said while in captivity (if I was a captured civilian I'd say whatever the heck they asked too) - can't we just go "Oh, hey, she didn't have her head hacked off like some of other journalists in the past. Hey, she's back with her family - isn't that nice?"

Fruit's Oaty Bar! Is a person from the mouse! Fruit's Oaty Bar! Makes your bust from yours female shirt! Continuously eats them! Let them cause you to be surprised!

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Sunday, April 2, 2006 1:01 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by cartoon:
"The US "

Maybe, I'm the one who needs the reading comprehension lessons.

Okay, let's pick the nit. "The US", in this discussion, cannot possibly mean the entire country, all of it's citizens, and all real estate, art, literature, YMCA's, and fire hydrants.
It must obviously mean those who control the U.S. military.
K?

Chrisisall

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Sunday, April 2, 2006 1:05 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
if I came across as excessively harsh.

Not harsh, just forceful.

It's what we do on RWED, darlin'.
It's what we do.

We need reality checks here every so.

Chrisisall

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Sunday, April 2, 2006 1:05 PM

CITIZEN

I think I've indicated who and what Cartoon is a number of times before.

You'll all see it for yourselves though.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity. But I know none, and therefore am no beast.

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Sunday, April 2, 2006 1:07 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Zisker:
Are people so divided or jaded or cynic or what have you these days that we can't just find some small amount of good in the fact that someone had a happy (relative, of course) ending?

I'm sure we're all happy for her (We just can't resist a little friendly(!) tussle on the side

).

Rowdy Chrisisall

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Monday, April 3, 2006 9:11 PM

BREWSKI

With the way things went down with this journalist, to me it looked more like a well-devised publicity stunt over an actually terrorist capture/torture.

Almost like those people who wanted to be "Human Shields" right before OIF... the reality of what really goes on just does not play true to the message even in the news.

And like Causal, I've also got 10 years military experience to back this up. Hostage situations don't normally go this "nicely."

Good news for me is that I don't have to hear about her anymore, and that she is truly safe now.

______________________________________________________
"He robbed from the rich and he gave to the poor.
Stood up to the man and gave him what for.
Our love for him now ain't hard to explain.
The hero of Canton the man they call Jayne!

http://boxofficebrewery.com

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Tuesday, April 4, 2006 12:22 AM

FLETCH2

Actually I think it played out pretty much as you'd expect and how previous kidnappings of female journalists have ended. Remember the 2 French girls and that Italian woman? In fact the only foreign woman we know has been taken and killed is Margret Hanson and she was actually taken by Al Qaeda, not the indiginous Iraqi types that grabbed Jill Carroll.

All these cases play out the same way. If you snatch a female journalist then the press corps from that country remain interested in a way they wouldn't be if this was a random male oil worker. In addition at the very least her media outlet will keep running the story while she is missing. Get the girl to do you a few video pieces and they are garenteed to be reported, because at least her paper/TV station will see fit to use it.

Later when interest subsides you cut her loose to show your devout Islamic credentials by not killing women prisoners, and look around for another.

Her reaction is interesting too because it reflects her culture. The French girls did their antiwar videos but never retracted them on their release because they played well back home. I can't imagine any American journalist who wanted to stay in that business putting out antiwar videos and then sticking by them once they were released.

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Wednesday, April 5, 2006 6:56 PM

BREWSKI

Quote:
Originally posted by Fletch2:
Actually I think it played out pretty much as you'd expect and how previous kidnappings of female journalists have ended. Remember the 2 French girls and that Italian woman? In fact the only foreign woman we know has been taken and killed is Margret Hanson and she was actually taken by Al Qaeda, not the indiginous Iraqi types that grabbed Jill Carroll.

I do remember video tapes of those 3 European journalists - their looks on their faces were much more of fear and they were pleading for their lives.

Not Jill Carroll.

______________________________________________________
"He robbed from the rich and he gave to the poor.
Stood up to the man and gave him what for.
Our love for him now ain't hard to explain.
The hero of Canton the man they call Jayne!

http://boxofficebrewery.com

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