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Blair issues plea for 'global alliance'

London Independent
27 March 2006

Tony Blair today made an impassioned plea while speaking to Australian politicians for an international alliance to protect "global values" of fairness, justice and freedom.

The UK Prime Minister pledged to keep British troops in Iraq and Afghanistan until those countries were stabilised.

Blair told Australian politicians that the "immediate threat was from Islamist extremism," which he said was "not a passing spasm of anger, but a global ideology at war with us and our way of life."

"If we want to secure our way of life, there is no alternative but to fight for it," he said. "That means standing up for our values not just in our own countries but the world over."

Britain and Australia were the only two nations to send troops to fight alongside US forces in the invasion of Iraq three years ago and both countries still have forces in the country and in Afghanistan fighting Taliban and al Qaida insurgents.

"This struggle is about justice and fairness as well as security and prosperity," he said. "And in truth today there is no prosperity without security and no security without justice. That is the consequence of an interconnected world."

Blair arrived in Australia late on Saturday on the first stop of a three-nation tour that is expected to focus on global terrorism and the war in Iraq. His first stop was the Commonwealth Games in the southern city of Melbourne to experience venues and atmosphere ahead of London's hosting of the 2012 Olympic Games.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/australasia/article353957.ece

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
It's interesting when a Communist or a Islamist announces intentions for a one world gov't, were everyone must bow down to one political model or religion, folks don't get all riled up. But when the leader of a free, more open country suggests contries come together for the common good, to fight the very REAL thread of Islamic terrorism, it's ORWELLIAN!!!

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But, when someone who should be rational, and that someone has the power to implement the Orwellian things, starts saying Orwellian things, that's when people start saying things.

And when someone says, "not just in our own countries but the world over." I find that kinda scary.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

Blair, and a few others around the world, aren't hip to the ideas that these terrorist are putting out. In fact, they dislike the ideas and actions SO much, they're willing to stand up and DO soemtehing about it all. And this act of survival, of standing up and not putting on a Neville Chamberlain mask is what creeps out folks like you?

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I think when we stop fighting 'religious extremism' and start treating these nations as nations with leaders, we'll get farther. At the end of the day, the only difference between their poligious figures and our poligious figures, is what they think they can get away with. They're still politicians looking for money and power.

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Yes, because only Blair and Bush and all the happy little Neocons the world over are 'unhip' to the idea of being blown up in a subway. And why is it always 'they' when you refer to the 'enemy'? Who exactly are 'they'? The Afgheni people? The Iraqi people? The Islamic faithful? What is survival to you - bomb people at random until you get 'them'? Why do you think people flock to the banner of the Islamic extremists? It's because not knowing who the real enemy is and attacking anything that moves makes it really, really easy to hate us.

I'm unhip to being blown up on the subway myself. I live near a major military installation in a major metropolitan area. And frankly, ever since GWB started his unending war on a concept, I've felt increasingly unsafe. The reason being is that we're fighting the wrong war, the wrong way, at the wrong time, and the wrong guys are gaining more and more power as it goes on. Wiretapping, leaking to out political enemies, wars on 'them', tax cuts for the wealthy during a time of war, the fact congress lets Bush get away with his 'I do not think this bill means what it is you say it means' every time (yes, McCain, I realize you have an anti-torture bill, but I'll sign it and tell you I think it means I can still torture - seriously, WTF?) It is Orwellian.

Memo to the administration: Shooting random brown people is not the way to fight terrorism. Global cooperation involving special investigative teams and preventative measures is. The administration thumbed its nose at the 9/11 comission's report and went on about its merry dance. Now they're gearing up for Iran.

Think about the saying "you're not paranoid if they're really out to get you." The fundie nutbags don't look nuts to the Islamic world because instead of protecting ourselves, we're threatening the Joe Muslim. I mean, seriously, some of you, think about what you are saying - we're going to attack a village to get to the rebels, or terrorists, or whatever - do you honestly think the villagers are thinking, 'sure, blow up my house by mistake, or gun down my wife, I'll get a new one'? - no, they think, maybe there's something to this America is the devil stuff.

People who aren't angry or aren't successful eventually give up and go home; if nothing else try to make a deal. People who are mad as hell and have minor successes will keep going until you have to kill them. I know which way I'd rather have the US acting. Instead, we get War Is Peace. Bah.

7%

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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But, when someone who should be rational, and that someone has the power to implement the Orwellian things, starts saying Orwellian things, that's when people start saying things.

And when someone says, "not just in our own countries but the world over." I find that kinda scary.

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Blair isn't King now, is he ? I was unaware that his power to implement his vision of how things should be rests on nothing more than a whim.

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I must also point out that hunger claims more lives (by several orders of magnitude actually) than terrorism did/does. So, to go after fringe elements to save a few hundred lives per year from terrorism, when there are tens of thousands of poeple that die from hunger every day...

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

No. I'd much rather bomb terrorist specifically, and leave everyone else alone. It's a waste of good bombs to just drop them at random, and we don't get the bad guys that way.

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W didn't START this war, it was occuring long before he even took office. All he did was stand up and finally fight back. That you feel 'increasingly unsafe' is more a telling state of your persona, than anything else. Worry about the terrorist who hate you for doing nothing more than not believe in their God™ and living your life in freedom.

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Yes, wiretapping terrorist to find out what they are planning is a good idea.

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Tax cuts? WTF ? The wealthy were paying too much $$, and letting folks keep more of the money they work for has benefitted EVERYONE. The economy is in great shape. Unemploymenet is down. Way down.

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We need more tax cuts

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We're not torturing anyone.

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It's absurd to worry about that. Prisoners at Club Gitmo are living the life, being fed great food, playing soccer, getting fresh prayer rugs to pray to mecca 5 x's a day.... it's a fucking resort down there. They've never had it so good.

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We're NOT shooting random brown people. It's ridiculous to assume we are.

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like WIRETAPPING!! Gee, W is way ahead of ya on that one too.

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As a world, we are dumping billions into fighting a "war" that cannot be won and in the process creating a larger problem than before. Yet, we are almost entirely ignoring something far more lethal. Something that claims 10's of thousands of lives per day more than the other does in a year.

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Originally posted by AnthonyT:


Now, who is directing these believers? A book, like the Bible? Not really. You know, both the Bible and the Quran have their violent passages, but neither of them tells you to blow up cafes full of civillians, or blow up school buses full of children.

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Originally posted by reaverman:

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Originally posted by AnthonyT:


Now, who is directing these believers? A book, like the Bible? Not really. You know, both the Bible and the Quran have their violent passages, but neither of them tells you to blow up cafes full of civillians, or blow up school buses full of children.

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Actually, there are dozens of Quran passages that call for the death of non-believers. There are passages that say that if your mother/father/brother/sister/son/daughter/any other relative turns away from Allah, it is your "holy duty" to end their lives. I agree with you that they are being directed by crazy leaders, but those leaders are simply using what is already a part of Islam to get folks to do what they want. The root of this terrorism is in the religion itself. Do you think that if the Quran never said any of those things and preached tolerance like some Muslims try to say it does, that there would even be an opportunity for those leaders to get religious people all riled up? I don't think so.

You're welcome on my boat. God ain't.

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Originally posted by reaverman:
Actually, there are dozens of Quran passages that call for the death of non-believers. There are passages that say that if your mother/father/brother/sister/son/daughter/any other relative turns away from Allah, it is your "holy duty" to end their lives. I agree with you that they are being directed by crazy leaders, but those leaders are simply using what is already a part of Islam to get folks to do what they want. The root of this terrorism is in the religion itself. Do you think that if the Quran never said any of those things and preached tolerance like some Muslims try to say it does, that there would even be an opportunity for those leaders to get religious people all riled up? I don't think so.

You're welcome on my boat. God ain't.

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Originally posted by reaverman:

The root of this terrorism is in the religion itself. Do you think that if the Quran never said any of those things and preached tolerance like some Muslims try to say it does, that there would even be an opportunity for those leaders to get religious people all riled up? I don't think so.

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Evan Dawson (Rochester, NY) 07/04/05 - You have probably never seen an army missile used in a church service or a pastor dressed in fatigues, but that is exactly what you'll find Sundays at New Born Fellowship Christian Center in Rochester, where church leaders have decided to conduct a new program called Spiritual Warfare.

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Originally posted by SevenPercent:

I wonder how many people posting in this thread have actually read 1984.

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There's some misguided intelligence here.

Zealots blow themselves up, kill people, and go on rampages mostly because someone tells them to. Some people, due to their circumstances or their psychological makeup, need to believe in something. The things that most appeal to them are usually the things that tell them that they are important. They can change things. They are loved and they will be rewarded. They can be heroes and fight the great evil. They can be somebody, even in death.

In some cases, this belief is constructive. "Do good things and you can be a hero. Give to charity, help your neighbor, etc. God will reward you." In fact, I probably qualify for this camp, except that I don't follow my religious leaders. These guys we call Christians or Catholics or Jews or maybe Buddhists, or the followers of some other benevolent religion. These guys are also Muslim, though that gets forgotten.

In other cases, the belief is destructive. The zealotry is the same, but what they're being TOLD TO DO is different. "Go into that café and blow up the evil non-believers and you will be a hero and God will give you 99 virgins." Something like that. These guys we call terrorists. They have the same passion of faith. They're not intrinsically evil. But their passionate faith is being directed by someone to a destructive end. This happened during the Crusades, too, and also during the colonization of America by the Spanish. So don't drink the cool-aide and think that Muslims invented it.

Now, who is directing these believers? A book, like the Bible? Not really. You know, both the Bible and the Quran have their violent passages, but neither of them tells you to blow up cafes full of civillians, or blow up school buses full of children.

Are these believers directed by their own faith, a direct link to God? Not usually. Joan of Arc is pretty rare, and so are the people who get orders from their neighbor's dog or a burning bush or the snake in eden.

These believers are typically directed by politically driven religious figures. And what do these poligious figures want? Do they want the infidels crushed, and 99 virgins, and the will of God manifested on the Earth? Maybe. But it's not their primary motivation. Their primary motivations are money and power.

Sometimes a poligious figure will be trying to secure his power base, or defeat his rivals. Sometimes he just wants you to send him ten bucks so that God doesn't call him home. Whatever. It's not about God. It's not even about the religion. It's about money and power. Zealots don't set policy. They act on the policy of others.

So, our enemy is not the religious extremists. They could as easily be swayed to eat grasshoppers and pray to their housecat. They are believers, and they will follow their poligious leaders in pretty much whatever they are told.

Our enemies are the poligious leaders of other countries, who have selected us as either a legitimate threat to their power, or a scapegoat threat (like the Jews in Germany) with which to defeat their poligious rivals and unite their Zealot populace in a philosophy of hate.

I think when we stop fighting 'religious extremism' and start treating these nations as nations with leaders, we'll get farther. At the end of the day, the only difference between their poligious figures and our poligious figures, is what they think they can get away with. They're still politicians looking for money and power.

Anyhow, that's my view on things. Your glance into the prism may show different colors.

--Anthony

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

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Originally posted by SevenPercent:

I wonder how many people posting in this thread have actually read 1984.

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I read it. Good book. The title was a couple of decades off, but still, very prophetic. Some exaggeration for dramatic purposes, but all in all, a must-read for politically minded Browncoats.
I read it in '76, and boy how close we're comin' in only 30 years.
Actually I liked This Perfect Day better; had a more upbeat ending .

We're on a bad road at the moment, but the future is not set.


Hopefully. Chrisisall

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Originally posted by Eric:

Whoa! I just started it today! Spooky...

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Originally posted by citizen:

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Originally posted by reaverman:
Actually, there are dozens of Quran passages that call for the death of non-believers. There are passages that say that if your mother/father/brother/sister/son/daughter/any other relative turns away from Allah, it is your "holy duty" to end their lives. I agree with you that they are being directed by crazy leaders, but those leaders are simply using what is already a part of Islam to get folks to do what they want. The root of this terrorism is in the religion itself. Do you think that if the Quran never said any of those things and preached tolerance like some Muslims try to say it does, that there would even be an opportunity for those leaders to get religious people all riled up? I don't think so.

You're welcome on my boat. God ain't.

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That makes it different to every other religion, erm how exactly? How are the Lords Resistance Army justifying raping killing and abducting in to slavery thousands of Children every year?

Could it be...
The Bible?

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More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity. But I know none, and therefore am no beast.

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