A love letter from Tehran... by Khyron

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

A love letter from Tehran...

POSTED BY: KHYRON
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 11:24
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 2642
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Monday, May 8, 2006 1:31 PM

... and the White House rejects it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4752613.stm

Seeing as there hasn't been any information on what was actually in the letter, I see no alternative but to come up with some possible scenarios ourselves

.

Personally, I think Ahmedinejad probably watched some South Park the day before and tried something along these lines:

"Dear Mr George W. Bush,

Your American penis, soooo biiig!!! My penis... so very small :(. You have such... gargantuan penis! Men like us with tiny penis no can build nuclear weapon. Only colossal American penis can build nuclear weapon!! Hoh... colossal penis, so big!"

Would have probably worked better had Clinton still been there.

Anybody else have any ideas what could have been in the letter?

Other people can occasionally be useful, especially as minions. I want lots of minions.

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Monday, May 8, 2006 1:45 PM

CHRISISALL

It said (something like):
" You do not want to kill women and children here with fallout from an attack. Please send UN personell to discover that our Nuclear weapon production is non-existent. We will co-operate. Allah will give you your just rewards, either way.
I'm sure that you are a nice infidel. We will give you fine women and horses. Let's talk."

But Bush don't want co-operation, he wants another enemy and a greater foothold.

Ahh, just guessin' Chrisisall

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Monday, May 8, 2006 5:21 PM

SOUPCATCHER

I'll take a stab (although I can't guarantee that it'll be as funny as yours).

Dear Mr. Bush,

It has come to our attention that you have been getting briefings about our country from former Vice-President Dan Quayle. I would like to make a minor correction to what he's been telling you. It's an N. Not a Q. I hope this clears up any desire on your part to invade our country.

Cheers,

Mr. Ahmadinejad

PS Our oil is really quite weak. More like Extra Virgin Olive Oil. Not even good enough for deep frying. Honest.

PPS I think some of our supporters have a lot in common. Would you please have your right wing nuts call my right wing nuts? Maybe they can do lunch.

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Monday, May 8, 2006 6:36 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Well, it didn't say anything about nuclear issues, from what we're being told. And the fact that it comes on the eve of the U.N. nearing a vote on possible sanctions against Iran, the timing seems suspect , at best.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Monday, May 8, 2006 9:51 PM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by Chrisisall:
We will give you fine women and horses.

Maybe he would have responded better if they offered fine men and lap dogs.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
And as you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.

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Monday, May 8, 2006 10:43 PM

ARABIKUM

Dear Mr. Bush!

Listening! You not nuke Iran! Please! Iran´s not threatening mighty U.S., because Portugal and Mexico are going to win goup D! Giant Americanos theoretically becoming 2nd in group E behind nice country of pasta, meaning you probably encounter winner of group F, which will be Brazil most likely. So, if you want to make it to the quarter-finals, I suggest, you nuke “Brazil” instead of “Iran”. I send you map as well, where I marked Brazil with an “X”.

Yours truly,

A.

Ted Striker: My orders came through. My squadron ships out tomorrow. We're bombing the storage depots at Daiquiri at 1800 hours. We're coming in from the north, below their radar.

Elaine Dickinson: When will you be back?

Ted Striker: I can't tell you that. It's classified.

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Tuesday, May 9, 2006 3:14 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
It's an N. Not a Q. I hope this clears up any desire on your part to invade our country.

lol, that was pretty good, Soup.

Chrisisall

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Tuesday, May 9, 2006 3:41 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Well, it didn't say anything about nuclear issues, from what we're being told. And the fact that it comes on the eve of the U.N. nearing a vote on possible sanctions against Iran, the timing seems suspect , at best.

Its not suspect at all. Its outright unprecidented. Its like an insight into the mind of Hitler on the eve of the invasion of Poland.

The letter condemns democracy and western institutions. It accuses Bush of covering up Isreal's role in 9/11 and bashes America's commitment to Isreal. It talks about history and philosophy...probably denying the WW2 extermination of the Jews and then advocating the contemporary extermination of the Jews.

Its 16 pages of crap that says contains nothing but baseless lies, meaningless philosphical rantings, and empty posturing.

Oddly its signed "PirateNews".

H

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Tuesday, May 9, 2006 2:22 PM

STDOUBT

Ahmadinejad's Letter to Bush

Tuesday, May 9, 2006; 2:54 PM

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has written President Bush an 18-page letter discussing religious values, history and international relations. Following is an unofficial translation from the original written in Farsi:

"Mr. George Bush, president of the United States of America

For some time now, I have been thinking, how one can justify the undeniable contradictions that exist in the international arena -- which are being constantly debated, especially in political forums and amongst university students. Many questions remain unanswered. Those have prompted me to discuss some of the contradictions and questions, in the hopes that it might bring about an opportunity to redress them.

Can one be a follower of Jesus Christ (Peace Be Upon Him), the great Messenger of God,

Feel obliged to respect human rights,

Present liberalism as a civilization model,

Announce one's opposition to the proliferation of nuclear weapons and WMDs,

Make "War on Terror" his slogan,

And finally,

work towards the establishment of an unified international community -- a community which Christ and the virtuous of the Earth will one day govern,

But at the same time,

Have countries attacked. The lives, reputations and possessions of people destroyed and on the slight chance of the presence of a few criminals in a village, city, or convoy for example, the entire village, city or convoy set ablaze.

Or because of the possibility of the existence of WMDs in one country, it is occupied, around 100,000 people killed, its water sources, agriculture and industry destroyed, close to 180,000 foreign troops put on the ground, sanctity of private homes of citizens broken, and the country pushed back perhaps 50 years. At what price? Hundreds of billions of dollars spent from the treasury of one country and certain other countries and tens of thousands of young men and women -- as occupation troops -- put in harms way, taken away from family and loved ones, their hands stained with the blood of others, subjected to so much psychological pressure that everyday some commit suicide and those returning home suffer depression, become sickly and grapple with all sorts of ailments; while some are killed and their bodies handed to their families.

On the pretext of the existence of WMDs, this great tragedy came to engulf both the peoples of the occupied and the occupying country. Later it was revealed that no WMDs existed to begin with.

Of course, Saddam was a murderous dictator. But the war was not waged to topple him, the announced goal of the war was to find and destroy weapons of mass destruction. He was toppled along the way towards another goal; nevertheless the people of the region are happy about it. I point out that throughout the many years of the imposed war on Iran Saddam was supported by the West.

Mr. President,

You might know that I am a teacher. My students ask me how can these actions be reconciled with the values outlined at the beginning of this letter and duty to the tradition of Jesus Christ (Peace Be Upon Him), the Messenger of peace and forgiveness?

There are prisoners in Guantanamo Bay that have not been tried, have no legal representation, their families cannot see them and are obviously kept in a strange land outside their own country. There is no international monitoring of their conditions and fate. No one knows whether they are prisoners, POWs, accused or criminals.

European investigators have confirmed the existence of secret prisons in Europe too. I could not correlate the abduction of a person, and him or her being kept in secret prisons, with the provisions of any judicial system. For that matter, I fail to understand how such actions correspond to the values outlined in the beginning of this letter, i.e. the teachings of Jesus Christ (Peace Be Upon Him), human rights and liberal values.

Young people, university students, and ordinary people have many questions about the phenomenon of Israel. I am sure you are familiar with some of them.

Throughout history, many countries have been occupied, but I think the establishment of a new country with a new people, is a new phenomenon that is exclusive to our times.

Students are saying that 60 years ago such a country did not exist. They show old documents and globes and say try as we have, we have not been able to find a country named Israel.

I tell them to study the history of WWI and II. One of my students told me that during WWII, which more than tens of millions of people perished in, news about the war, was quickly disseminated by the warring parties. Each touted their victories and the most recent battlefront defeat of the other party. After the war they claimed that six million Jews had been killed. Six million people that were surely related to at least two million families. Again let us assume that these events are true. Does that logically translate into the establishment of the state of Israel in the Middle East or support for such a state? How can this phenomenon be rationalized or explained?

Mr. President,

I am sure you know how -- and at what cost -- Israel was established:

-- Many thousands were killed in the process.

-- Millions of indigenous people were made refugees.

-- Hundreds of thousands of hectares of farmland, olive plantations, towns and villages were destroyed.

This tragedy is not exclusive to the time of establishment; unfortunately it has been ongoing for 60 years now.

A regime has been established which does not show mercy even to kids, destroys houses while the occupants are still in them, announces beforehand its list and plans to assassinate Palestinian figures, and keeps thousands of Palestinians in prison. Such a phenomenon is unique -- or at the very least extremely rare -- in recent memory.

Another big question asked by the people is "why is this regime being supported?"

Is support for this regime in line with the teachings of Jesus Christ (Peace Be Upon Him) or Moses (Peace Be Upon Him) or liberal values?

Or are we to understand that allowing the original inhabitants of these lands -- inside and outside Palestine -- whether they are Christian, Muslim or Jew, to determine their fate, runs contrary to principles of democracy, human rights and the teachings of prophets? If not, why is there so much opposition to a referendum?

The newly elected Palestinian administration recently took office. All independent observers have confirmed that this government represents the electorate. Unbelievingly, they have put the elected government under pressure and have advised it to recognize the Israeli regime, abandon the struggle and follow the programs of the previous government.

If the current Palestinian government had run on the above platform, would the Palestinian people have voted for it? Again, can such position taken in opposition to the Palestinian government be reconciled with the values outlined earlier? The people are, also asking "why are all UNSC resolutions in condemnation of Israel vetoed?"

Mr. President,

As you are well aware, I live amongst the people and am in constant contact with them -- many people from around the Middle East manage to contact me as well. They do not have faith in there dubious policies either. There is evidence that the people of the region are becoming increasingly angry with such policies.

It is not my intention to pose too many questions, but I need to refer to other points as well.

Why is it that any technological and scientific achievement reached in the Middle East region is translated into and portrayed as a threat to the Zionist regime? Is not scientific R&D one of the basic rights of nations?

You are familiar with history. Aside from the Middle Ages, in what other point in history has scientific and technical progress been a crime? Can the possibility of scientific achievements being utilized for military purposes be reason enough to oppose science and technology altogether? If such a supposition is true, then all scientific disciplines, including physics, chemistry, mathematics, medicine, engineering, etc, must be opposed.

Lies were told in the Iraqi matter. What was the result? I have no doubt that telling lies is reprehensible in any culture, and you do not like to be lied to.

Mr. President,

Don't Latin Americans have the right to ask why their elected government are being opposed and coup leaders supported? Or, Why must they constantly be threatened and live in fear?

The people of Africa are hard-working, creative and talented. They can play an important and valuable role in providing for the needs of humanity and contribute to its material and spiritual progress. Poverty and hardship in large parts of Africa are preventing this from happening. Don't they have the right to ask why their enormous wealth -- including minerals -- is being looted, despite the fact that they need it more than others?

Again, do such actions correspond to the teachings of Christ and the tenets of human rights?

The brave and faithful people of Iran too have many questions and grievances, including: the coup d'etat of 1953 and the subsequent toppling of the legal government of the day, opposition to the Islamic revolution, transformation of an Embassy into a headquarters supporting the activities of those opposing the Islamic Republic (many thousands of pages of documents corroborate this claim), support for Saddam in the war waged against Iran, the shooting down of the Iranian passenger plane, freezing the assets of the Iranian nation, increasing threats, anger and displeasure vis-a-vis the scientific and nuclear progress of the Iranian nation (just when all Iranians are jubilant and celebrating their country's progress), and many other grievances that I will not refer to in this letter.

Mr. President,

September Eleven was a horrendous incident. The killing of innocents is deplorable and appalling in any part of the world. Our government immediately declared its disgust with the perpetrators and offered its condolences to the bereaved and expressed its sympathies.

All governments have a duty to protect the lives, property and good standing of their citizens. Reportedly your government employs extensive security, protection and intelligence systems -- and even hunts its opponents abroad. September eleven was not a simple operation. Could it be planned and executed without coordination with intelligence and security services -- or their extensive infiltration? Of course this is just an educated guess. Why have the various aspects of the attacks been kept secret? Why are we not told who botched their responsibilities? And, why aren't those responsible and the guilty parties identified and put on trial?

All governments have a duty to provide security and peace of mind for their citizens. For some years now, the people of your country and neighbors of world trouble spots do not have peace of mind. After 9.11, instead of healing and tending to the emotional wounds of the survivors and the American people -- who had been immensely traumatized by the attacks -- some Western media only intensified the climate of fear and insecurity -- some constantly talked about the possibility of new terror attacks and kept the people in fear. Is that service to the American people? Is it possible to calculate the damages incurred from fear and panic?

American citizens lived in constant fear of fresh attacks that could come at any moment and in any place. They felt insecure in the street, in their place of work and at home. Who would be happy with this situation? Why was the media, instead of conveying a feeling of security and providing peace of mind, giving rise to a feeling of insecurity?

Some believe that the hype paved the way -- and was the justification -- for an attack on Afghanistan. Again I need to refer to the role of media. In media charters, correct dissemination of information and honest reporting of a story are established tenets. I express my deep regret about the disregard shown by certain Western media for these principles. The main pretext for an attack on Iraq was the existence of WMDs. This was repeated incessantly -- for the public to finally believe -- and the ground set for an attack on Iraq.

Will the truth not be lost in a contrived and deceptive climate? Again, if the truth is allowed to be lost, how can that be reconciled with the earlier mentioned values?

Is the truth known to the Almighty lost as well?

Mr. President,

In countries around the world, citizens provide for the expenses of governments so that their governments in turn are able to serve them.

The question here is "what has the hundreds of billions of dollars, spent every year to pay for the Iraqi campaign, produced for the citizens?"

As Your Excellency is aware, in some states of your country, people are living in poverty. Many thousands are homeless and unemployment is a huge problem. Of course these problems exist -- to a larger or lesser extent -- in other countries as well. With these conditions in mind, can the gargantuan expenses of the campaign -- paid from the public treasury -- be explained and be consistent with the aforementioned principles?

What has been said, are some of the grievances of the people around the world, in our region and in your country. But my main contention -- which I am hoping you will agree to some of it -- is:

Those in power have a specific time in office and do not rule indefinitely, but their names will be recorded in history and will be consistently judged in the immediate and distant futures.

The people will scrutinize our presidencies. Did we manage to bring peace, security and prosperity for the people or insecurity and unemployment?

Did we intend to establish justice or just supported special interest groups, and by forcing many people to live in poverty and hardship made a few people rich and powerful -- thus trading the approval of the people and the Almighty with theirs?

Did we defend the rights of the underprivileged or ignore them?

Did we defend the rights of all people around the world or imposed wars on them, interfered illegally in their affairs, established hellish prisons and incarcerated some of them?

Did we bring the world peace and security or raised the specter of intimidation and threats?

Did we tell the truth to our nation and others around the world or presented an inverted version of it?

Were we on the side of people or the occupiers and oppressors?

Did our administrations set out to promote rational behavior, logic, ethics, peace, fulfilling obligations, justice, service to the people, prosperity, progress and respect for human dignity or the force of guns, Intimidation, insecurity, disregard for the people, delaying the progress and excellence of other nations, and trample on people's rights?

And finally, they will judge us on whether we remained true to our oath of office -- to serve the people, which is our main task, and the traditions of the prophets -- or not?

Mr. President,

How much longer can the world tolerate this situation?

Where will this trend lead the world to?

How long must the people of the world pay for the incorrect decisions of some rulers?

How much longer will the specter of insecurity -- raised from the stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction -- hunt the people of the world?

How much longer will the blood of the innocent men, women and children be spilled on the streets, and people's houses destroyed over their heads?

Are you pleased with the current condition of the world?

Do you think present policies can continue?

If billions of dollars spent on security, military campaigns and troop movement were instead spent on investment and assistance for poor countries, promotion of health, combating different diseases, education and improvement of mental and physical fitness, assistance to the victims of natural disasters, creation of employment opportunities and production, development projects and poverty alleviation, establishment of peace, mediation between disputing states, and extinguishing the flames of racial, ethnic and other conflicts, were would the world be today? Would not your government and people be justifiably proud?

Would not your administration's political and economic standing have been stronger?

And I am most sorry to say, would there have been an ever increasing global hatred of the American government?

Mr. President, it is not my intention to distress anyone.

If Prophet Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Ishmael, Joseph, or Jesus Christ (Peace Be Upon Him) were with us today, how would they have judged such behavior? Will we be given a role to play in the promised world, where justice will become universal and Jesus Christ (Peace Be Upon Him) will be present? Will they even accept us?

My basic question is this: Is there no better way to interact with the rest of the world? Today there are hundreds of millions of Christians, hundreds of millions of Muslims and millions of people who follow the teachings of Moses (Peace Be Upon Him). All divine religions share and respect one word and that is "monotheism" or belief in a single God and no other in the world.

The Holy Koran stresses this common word and calls on all followers of divine religions and says: (3.64) Say: O followers of the Book! come to an equitable proposition between us and you that we shall not serve any but Allah and (that) we shall not associate aught with Him, and (that) some of us shall not take others for lords besides Allah; but if they turn back, then say: Bear witness that we are Muslims. (The Family of Imran)

Mr. President,

According to divine verses, we have all been called upon to worship one God and follow the teachings of divine Prophets.

"To worship a God which is above all powers in the world and can do all He pleases." "the Lord which knows that which is hidden and visible, the past and the future, knows what goes on in the Hearts of His servants and records their deeds."

"The Lord who is the possessor of the heavens and the earth and all universe is His court" "planning for the universe is done by His hands, and gives His servants the glad tidings of mercy and forgiveness of sins" "He is the companion of the oppressed and the enemy of oppressors" "He is the Compassionate, the Merciful" "He is the recourse of the faithful and guides them towards the light from darkness" "He is witness to the actions of His servants" "He calls on servants to be faithful and do good deeds, and asks them to stay on the path of righteousness and remain steadfast" "Calls on servants to heed His prophets and He is a witness to their deeds" "A bad ending belongs only to those who have chosen the life of this world and disobey Him and oppress His servants" and "A good land and eternal paradise belong to those servants who fear His majesty and do not follow their lascivious selves."

We believe a return to the teachings of the divine prophets is the only road leading to salvation and have been told that Your Excellency follows the teachings of Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) and believes in the divine promise of the rule of the righteous on Earth.

We also believe that Jesus Christ (Peace Be Upon Him) was one of the great prophets of the Almighty. He has been repeatedly praised in the Koran. Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) has been quoted in Koran as well: (19.36) And surely Allah is my Lord and your Lord, therefore serve Him; this is the right path.

Service to and obedience of the Almighty is the credo of all divine messengers.

The God of all people in Europe, Asia, Africa, America, the Pacific and the rest of the world is one. He is the Almighty who wants to guide and give dignity to all His servants. He has given greatness to Humans.

We again read in the Holy Book: "The Almighty God sent His prophets with miracles and clear signs to guide the people and show them divine signs and purify them from sins and pollutions. And He sent the Book and the balance so that the people display justice and avoid the rebellious."

All of the above verses can be seen, one way or the other, in the Good Book as well.

Divine prophets have promised:

The day will come when all humans will congregate before the court of the Almighty, so that their deeds are examined, The good will be directed towards Haven and evildoers will meet divine retribution. I trust both of us believe in such a day, but it will not be easy to calculate the actions of rulers, because we must be answerable to our nation and all others whose lives have been directly or indirectly affected by our actions.

All prophets, speak of peace and tranquillity for man -- based on monotheism, justice and respect for human dignity.

Do you not think that if all of us come to believe in and abide by these principles, that is, monotheism, worship of God, justice, respect for the dignity of man, belief in the Last Day, we can overcome the present problems of the world -- that are the result of disobedience to the Almighty and the teachings of prophets -- and improve our performance?

Do you not think that belief in these principles promotes and guarantees peace, friendship and justice?

Do you not think that the aforementioned written or unwritten principles are universally represented?

Will you not accept this invitation? That is, a genuine return to the teachings of prophets, to monotheism and justice, to preserve human dignity and obedience to the Almighty and His prophets?

Mr. President,

History tells us that repressive and cruel governments do not survive. God has entrusted the fate of men to them. The Almighty has not left the universe and humanity to their own devices. Many things have happened contrary to the wishes and plans of governments. These tell us that there is a higher power at work and all events are determined by Him.

Can one deny the signs of change in the world today?

Is the situation of the world today comparable to that of 10 years ago? Changes happen fast and come at a furious pace.

The people of the world are not happy with the status quo and pay little heed to the promises and comments made by a number of influential world leaders. Many people around the world feel insecure and oppose the spreading of insecurity and war and do not approve of and accept dubious policies.

The people are protesting the increasing gap between the haves and the have-nots and the rich and poor countries.

The people are disgusted with increasing corruption.

The people of many countries are angry about the attacks on their cultural foundations and the disintegration of families. They are equally dismayed with the fading of care and compassion. The people of the world have no faith in international organizations, because their rights are not advocated by these organizations.

Liberalism and Western-style democracy have not been able to help realize the ideals of humanity. Today these two concepts have failed. Those with insight can already hear the sounds of the shattering and fall of the ideology and thoughts of the Liberal democratic systems.

We increasingly see that people around the world are flocking towards a main focal point -- that is the Almighty God. Undoubtedly through faith in God and the teachings of the prophets, the people will conquer their problems. My question for you is: "Do you not want to join them?"

Mr. President,

Whether we like it or not, the world is gravitating towards faith in the Almighty and justice and the will of God will prevail over all things.

Reut14:40 05-09-06
© 2006 Reuters

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Tuesday, May 9, 2006 2:24 PM

STDOUBT

I doubt Bush could write that many words...
Or hold as many thoughts in his head for that
matter.
EDIT- Hey HERO... STFU

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Tuesday, May 9, 2006 3:33 PM

GINOBIFFARONI

Haven't read the letter until now...

Wow

No wonder Condi Rice was trying to dismiss it as rhetotic...

Can't say I agree completely on every point with the man, but I will say I am much closer to his view of the world than Bush and company.

" Over and in, last call for sin
While everyone's lost, the battle is won
With all these things that I've done "

The Killers

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/killers/allthesethingsthativedone.html

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Tuesday, May 9, 2006 6:14 PM

KHYRON

To be honest, I agree with the White House for dismissing it as rhetoric. While I in principal agree with many of the things Ahmedinejad wrote (the implied questioning of the severity of the holocaust and the outright questioning of Israel's right to exist not being some of those things), the letter did nothing to address the issue at hand, which is Iran's progress in nuclear research. Ahmedinejad even said he wouldn't discuss that in the letter, which immediately raised the question of what the point of the letter was in the first place.

Although I'm by no means a supporter of the administration, I can't fault them for their reaction to this.

Other people can occasionally be useful, especially as minions. I want lots of minions.

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Tuesday, May 9, 2006 7:16 PM

STDOUBT

Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:
To be honest, I agree with the White House for dismissing it as rhetoric.While I in principal agree with many of the things Ahmedinejad wrote (the implied questioning of the severity of the holocaust and the outright questioning of Israel's right to exist not being some of those things),

Why not? Zionism is a 20th century phonomenon.
It's easily arguable that Israel is not a 'natural
state' but rather a contrived one. Even the
orthodox Jews don't accept Israel's existence.
They feel that Israel was to me made by God, not by man.

Quote:

the letter did nothing to address the issue at hand, which is Iran's progress in nuclear research.

Indirectly it did:
Why is it that any technological and scientific achievement reached in the Middle East region is translated into and portrayed as a threat to the Zionist regime? Is not scientific R&D one of the basic rights of nations?

Quote:

Ahmedinejad even said he wouldn't discuss that in the letter, which immediately raised the question of what the point of the letter was in the first place.

In my view the point of the letter was to give
people a sense of Iranians as human beings, as
opposed to the idea propogated by the US that they
are a nation of lunatic terrorists.

Quote:

Although I'm by no means a supporter of the administration, I can't fault them for their reaction to this.

I'm quite certain they'll appreciate that.
(No, I don't believe you read the whole thing through)
EDIT- P.S. Israel has at least one nuke pointed at
each Arab capitol. That's a lotta love ain't it?

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Tuesday, May 9, 2006 7:40 PM

KHYRON

I don't want to get into the whole Israel debate right now, which is what both the letter and you view as important. Maybe I'm focussing on the wrong things, but I think not.

Quote:
Originally posted by STDOUBT:
Quote:

the letter did nothing to address the issue at hand, which is Iran's progress in nuclear research.

Indirectly it did:
Why is it that any technological and scientific achievement reached in the Middle East region is translated into and portrayed as a threat to the Zionist regime? Is not scientific R&D one of the basic rights of nations?

In light of the seriousness of the allegations against Iran (development of nuclear weapons), an indirect comment on that situation really is nothing. Am I missing something, or isn't the reason for the current tension between the US and Iran supposedly the whole nuclear issue? We all know that it's very likely that the US also has ulterior motives, but if one is accused of a crime, then one should try to prove one's innocence of that crime, not outline one's view of the world without addressing the accusations.

Quote:
Originally posted by STDOUBT:
In my view the point of the letter was to give
people a sense of Iranians as human beings, as
opposed to the idea propogated by the US that they
are a nation of lunatic terrorists.

He had no guarantee that the administration would make the contents of the letter public, or that the administration would even acknowledge the existence of the letter. Had he really wanted to address Bush but do it so that the American people could see it, he could have sent the same letter as an open letter published in a number of credible US newspapers.

I agree that the reason you gave is the most likely reason for the letter, but I think it could have easily been a waste of his time had the matter just been kept secret. Maybe a question we should be debating is: why wasn't it? The administration could have kept it secret, but it chose not to. What sort of political advantage could they get from making the contents of the letter public?

Quote:
Originally posted by STDOUBT:
Quote:
Although I'm by no means a supporter of the administration, I can't fault them for their reaction to this.

I'm quite certain they'll appreciate that.

That makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside...

Quote:
Originally posted by STDOUBT:
(No, I don't believe you read the whole thing through)

No I didn't. I skipped all the religious quotations and arguments because I don't care for them and I don't think religion should play a role in a political debate.

Quote:
Originally posted by STDOUBT:
EDIT- P.S. Israel has at least one nuke pointed at each Arab capitol. That's a lotta love ain't it?

Hey, I only support the existence of Israel. I'm not a fan of their actions.

Other people can occasionally be useful, especially as minions. I want lots of minions.

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Tuesday, May 9, 2006 8:04 PM

GINOBIFFARONI

Israels right to exist is the lightning rod issue for the region, while I think that ship has sailed and it is only a bargaining chip today in terms of other issues... If it were 1948 again, I would feel that it be a huge error. That said, and as the letter states... with Israel being forced down the throats of those in the region, the 1953 coup and everything the Shah did to take and remain in power on the US... why does the US feel it should have a say over policy in Iran. it has been anything but a good global neighbor... it assisted Iraq in a war of aggression against them them... etc

The suggestion for a seperate treaty banning all nuclear weapons from the middle east has also been rejected by the US... because they don't want to give up their options in that area and because they couldn't disarm Israel even if they wanted to.

I think the point is the US is making demands and offering nothing more than threats and horseshit... and with the threats being made... why not withdraw for the NPT and build weapons... at least the issue will be put to bed for good.

And even if the US offers something of value... how can that be trusted... such deals are broken at a whim... look at Korea

" Over and in, last call for sin
While everyone's lost, the battle is won
With all these things that I've done "

The Killers

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/killers/allthesethingsthativedone.html

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Tuesday, May 9, 2006 9:32 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"if one is accused of a crime, then one should try to prove one's innocence of that crime"

Is that how it works in your country? In my country if one is accused of a crime, then the accuser should try to prove the accused person's guilt of the crime.

And worse, the US is a witness and prosecuter tainted by perjury. Because of our own ineptitude, a claim that Iran has or intends to build nuclear arms is a 'cry wolf' scenario that will need to be supported with solid evidence in the International arena.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Tuesday, May 9, 2006 9:39 PM

KHYRON

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Is that how it works in your country? In my country if one is accused of a crime, then the accuser should try to prove the accused person's guilt of the crime.

Obviously, that too, but one surely should also try to show one's innocence, right?

Or would you, if you were taken to court for whatever reason, just sit back and let the prosecution present its case and not bother to present your own case to prove your innocence?

Other people can occasionally be useful, especially as minions. I want lots of minions.

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Tuesday, May 9, 2006 11:46 PM

ARABIKUM

Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:
Obviously, that too, but one surely should also try to show one's innocence, right?

Well-well. It´s very hard for non-philosophers to prove something to be non-existent, isn´t it?! Even Saddam tried... Btw, where are those iraqui WMD´s anyway?!

A.

Ted Striker: My orders came through. My squadron ships out tomorrow. We're bombing the storage depots at Daiquiri at 1800 hours. We're coming in from the north, below their radar.

Elaine Dickinson: When will you be back?

Ted Striker: I can't tell you that. It's classified.

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Wednesday, May 10, 2006 1:11 AM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by Arabikum:
Well-well. It´s very hard for non-philosophers to prove something to be non-existent, isn´t it?! Even Saddam tried... Btw, where are those iraqui WMD´s anyway?!

They're under a Berry Bush in Syria.

To get there take the first burning bush on the right and straight on until judgement day.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
And as you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.

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Wednesday, May 10, 2006 3:27 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by STDOUBT:
P.S. Israel has at least one nuke pointed at
each Arab capitol. That's a lotta love ain't it?

If the folk next door constantly threatened to destroy you and on a number of occaisons gave it an honost effort...you might feel a little apprehensive about their intentions. Isreal has kicked Arab ass a half dozen times since 1945, but they've never started a single war. Why? Because they take the Arab threat seriously, perhaps the only country that really does.

H

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Wednesday, May 10, 2006 3:50 AM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Isreal has kicked Arab ass a half dozen times since 1945, but they've never started a single war.

They kick Arab arse all the time. Palestinian three year olds are a serious threat, which is why they must be gunned down without mercy, along with British Journalists and aid workers.

Quote:
Why? Because they take the Arab threat seriously, perhaps the only country that really does.

Or maybe it’s because America funds a military budget unsustainable by the Arab nations or indeed Israel itself so that Israel can afford lots of the newest bestest toys.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
And as you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.

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Wednesday, May 10, 2006 4:09 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:

They kick Arab arse all the time. Palestinian three year olds are a serious threat, which is why they must be gunned down without mercy, along with British Journalists and aid workers.

Human shields? I suggested the terrorists and Jihadists locate themselves in large empty fields far from noncombatents...but they never listen.

Quote:

Or maybe it’s because America funds a military budget unsustainable by the Arab nations or indeed Israel itself so that Israel can afford lots of the newest bestest toys.

Not much on history, huh?

The Arabs bought top of the line Soviet equipment. The Isrealis bought top of the line western equipment...or their own stuff. The result was extremely high kill ratios in favor of the numerically inferior Isreali military.

H

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Wednesday, May 10, 2006 5:05 AM

CHRISISALL

Bush could not have read the entire message, and no one could have read it to him; his attention span is too short.
They released it because they feel the same condition exists in the American people, and I fear they are right.
"What? They hate Jews, and want us to follow Allah?" is all that they expect most folk to come away with.

I thought the letter did a great job of asking the administration what it's goals really are, but we all know they can't REALLY answer that.

More humans to wipe out, more power to savour.

Suddenly, the Bush Administration seems a lot like SPECTRE to me...

Tears of Allah Chrisisall

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Wednesday, May 10, 2006 6:43 AM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Human shields? I suggested the terrorists and Jihadists locate themselves in large empty fields far from noncombatents...but they never listen.

No children who have been shot at and killed on numerous occasions because they were too close to Israeli soldiers.

Maybe you missed the big recent spat between Israel and the British family whose son was killed trying to get children out of the line of fire and was purposefully targeted by an Israeli soldier. Guess non-combatants getting children out of the line of fire are serious security risk huh.

I could drag up numerous sources of incidents where Israeli troops have committed acts that would be called terrorism, if they weren't committed by Israeli soldiers that is.

Would you listen?

Quote:
Not much on history, huh?

The Arabs bought top of the line Soviet equipment. The Isrealis bought top of the line western equipment...or their own stuff. The result was extremely high kill ratios in favor of the numerically inferior Isreali military.

Not much on current events or history or the US government budgets then huh?

The Israeli military is paid for by the USA.

The result is that the Israeli’s can afford the more advanced more expensive western military equipment.

That’s why the Arab nations don’t stand a chance, militarily. Are you saying that Arab nations wouldn’t buy weapons from the leading arms provider in the world if they could afford them?

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
And as you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.

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Wednesday, May 10, 2006 7:54 AM

KHYRON

Quote:
Originally posted by Arabikum:
Well-well. It´s very hard for non-philosophers to prove something to be non-existent, isn´t it?! Even Saddam tried... Btw, where are those iraqui WMD´s anyway?!

If he really wants to prove that Iran doesn't have a nuclear weapons development program, they could let UN inspectors inside the country. Any argument on your part along the lines of "Yeah, but how do we know that UN inspections will work/that the US is going to accept the findings of the inspections?" is an entirely different discussion that I don't care to engage in.

Besides, don't be distracted by the particulars of my legal comparison to what I was trying to say with it. The letter did nothing to address the actual issue, so it is just rhetoric, no matter how much many of us agree with many of the points it outlines.

Other people can occasionally be useful, especially as minions. I want lots of minions.

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Wednesday, May 10, 2006 11:24 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Here's a far out and crazy opinion...

We have no right to force inspections on Iran. We have no right to expect them to allow inspections. We have no right to curtail their research and development. Even if they admitted they were seeking nuclear arms, we'd have no right to interfere.

Correct my if I'm wrong, but aren't Iranians part of the hated minority with enemies on all sides, some of them armed with nuclear weapons and a pre-emptive war policy?

I don't really like Iran, but that doesn't mean I want to run their country, tell them what to do, or disregard their right to do whatever they please, (until they attack me.)

Israel isn't a scrappy little country fighting for their right to survive anymore.

They're the giant's little brother waving the big stick at the locals. If we're looking for an Underdog, it's no longer Israel.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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