Michael Moore sued for Farenheit 9/11 by Amiton

Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
So its "American" liberty we are going for. Thats funny, I thought we wanted to help other countries find their own free democracy.

In the begining all the world was America.

Quote:

And River is right - NONE of this has to do with the lawsuit asking for 85 mil

Its a stream of thought kind of thing.

H

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Thursday, June 1, 2006 6:17 AM

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:

In the begining all the world was America.
Quote:

HUH?

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Thursday, June 1, 2006 6:19 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Slick... find a spot where I praised Moore - ANYWHERE. The best I said was - "9/11 was tiresome, heavy handed, confused, and for me, disappointing." I don't know.... what do you think? Was that praise over the top?

WAAAAAY too over-the-top Rue!

Quote:
Pres. Bush lies, twists facts, and takes things out of context, so he should be impeached and prosecuted.
Mr. Moore lies, twists facts, and takes things out of context, and should be praised for providing a valuable public service.
Why the difference?

Geezer the difference between Michael Moore and Bush is ... Gosh, I SHOULDN'T have to spell this out to a grown man!... Bush is President. Commander-in-Chief. Unitary Executive. Bush's lies have grave (literally) consequences. But ONE good thing came out of this discussion- you just admitted Bush lied!

---------------------------------
Don't piss in my face and tell me it's raining.

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Thursday, June 1, 2006 6:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Yeah, I few thousand crazy folk like PirateNews is hardly a "movement". Especially when compared to the unprecedented national war effort that sent millions to war and produced a hundred billion tons of shipping, arms, and supplies.

Actually the government didn't join the war earlier because the movement was big, not a few loonies.

Now I realise you've learnt everything you know about history from hollywood films but they'll outright lie to you. Here's a good start, no American submarine ever had anything to do with the capture of the enigma, surprising I know, U-571 lied to you.

Quote:
The term is "LAWYER". They teach a whole class on arrogance in school and I did a paper on being a "little shit". Got an 'A'.

I don't doubt it

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
"I had a rose named after me and I was very flattered. But I was not pleased to read the description in the catalog: 'No good in a bed, but fine against a wall'." -- Eleanor Roosevelt.

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Thursday, June 1, 2006 6:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
None of this. We can do better. It's possible to disagree without doing this.

I'm pointing out a fact, he is talking like an arrogant little shit.

News Flash:
Not everyone in the world is either evil, deluded, or desperatly wanting to be an American.

Amazing I know, but true none the less.

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Thursday, June 1, 2006 7:39 AM

SOUPCATCHER

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Yeah, I few thousand crazy folk like PirateNews is hardly a "movement". Especially when compared to the unprecedented national war effort that sent millions to war and produced a hundred billion tons of shipping, arms, and supplies.
Actually the government didn't join the war earlier because the movement was big, not a few loonies.

Apparently he has never heard of the German-American Bund. It's kind of scary how many Americans there were organizing bond drives for Hitler and flying the swastika before WWII (and that's ignoring all the businessmen who were making deals with the third reich because we all know that capitalism is sacred and anything done in the pursuit of big business is inherently righteous). I remember seeing a picture of Madison Square Garden sporting a swastika banner and packed with people. The event took place sometime in the late thirties and it was far from the only one.

And we put the Japanese-Americans in concentration camps?

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Thursday, June 1, 2006 7:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
HUH?

"...in the beginning all the World was America, and more so than it is now." -John Locke, Second Treatise on government (1690)

My favorite John Locke quote. The idea is the liberty is the natural state of man. So cultures that are not based on the American ideal of liberty are against nature. Might want to pick up one of those bound collections of words, thoughts and ideas...in other words stop watching Michael Moore movies and read a fracking book.

H

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Thursday, June 1, 2006 7:49 AM

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
HUH?

...in other words stop watching Michael Moore movies and read a fracking book.

H

Excuse me? Just who the hell do you think you are?

(A) I have never seen a Michael Moore movis
(b) since I happen to read more than 1280 words a minute and have a 99% retention rate, I would reckon that I read more books in a year than you have in the last 10.

So I would suggest you stop attempting to be a pompous ass and learn who you are speaking to.

edit - in 1690 John Locke was speaking of America as in the English colonies, not America as in the country - since the country (a) wasn't a country, (b) wasn't a democracy and (c) the reference is for Provincial America, your quote is ill used.

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Thursday, June 1, 2006 7:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
News Flash:
Not everyone in the world is either evil, deluded, or desperatly wanting to be an American.

No, the fourth group are the idiot liberals who are desperately wanting to be evil or deluded.

H

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Thursday, June 1, 2006 7:52 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Oh, I thought that was the deluded neocns desperately wanting to be right.

"Right"

Get it? chuckle chuckle!

---------------------------------
Don't piss in my face and tell me it's raining.

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Thursday, June 1, 2006 8:04 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
Apparently he has never heard of the German-American Bund.

Are they a Polka Band?

I grew up in Pennsylvania, I know all about the German-American heritage. I also know that your talking about a few loonies here and there and some fraternal organizations, relief societies, and folk who thought the Klan dress code was too strict.

I think your confusing this tiny pro-german minority, oddly it was problably about the same size as the number of midgets in the country (another tiny minority...gee long way for a bad joke there), anyway your confusing this small group with the isolationists who actively opposed foriegn entanglements. I think this is a mistake, the two while sharing some common interests, ie avoiding American intervention in the European War, their interests diverge at that point.

As for the Japs, yes they got put in camps, but then we not only let them live, we let them out, let them rejoin society, and decades later we gave them a wad of cash. I say they got off easy considering what usually happens when an ethnic minority gets locked up in a camp...ovens, slave labor, Streisand concerts...Now look at them, the Japs love video games, movies, baseball, and democracy, none of which their prewar culture would have tolerated. Japan, remade in our image and look, its still as Japanese as ever. Aint liberty grand?

H

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Thursday, June 1, 2006 8:07 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Zero,

Dude, you gotta stop those drugs. You're babbling.

Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

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Thursday, June 1, 2006 8:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
News Flash:
Not everyone in the world is either evil, deluded, or desperatly wanting to be an American.

No, the fourth group are the idiot liberals who are desperately wanting to be evil or deluded.

H

And the fifth are the idiot conservatives that want things the old (all their own) way, and are prepared to do and allow great evil to get it.

No vote for women, Witch burnings, torture of non-Christians, Blacks were born to be slaves 'right' 'Hero'.

I'm glad from your position of never leaving your home town or even knowing the history of your own country you feel you have a crystal ball into the secret workings of the world and the minds of others, because by your constant protestations that anyone who doesn't think like you is evil/deluded/wants to be evil and deluded just proves you're the most anti-American person posting on these boards.

Liberty! Ha, liberty to do what Hero considers correct is nothing but a dictatorship.

But maybe that's the world you'd be happiest in, the world run by Hero, Liberty for all (who think like Hero) death and enslavement for others.

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Thursday, June 1, 2006 8:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
edit - in 1690 John Locke was speaking of America as in the English colonies, not America as in the country - since the country (a) wasn't a country, (b) wasn't a democracy and (c) the reference is for Provincial America, your quote is ill used.

I know you read fast and probably just read every word Locke wrote...maybe you should slow down and think about what he said.

Locke was making a counter argument to the Hobbes theory that violence was the natural state of man and that man is more then willing to trade liberty for security in order to obtain safety from the violence of others.

Locke's idea was the governments ought exist only from the consent of the governed and that natural rights such as life, liberty, and property ought to be the foundation of any such undertaking. These ideas, written at a time when despotism was the order of things was an innovation. In talking about America Locke saw a vast land of opportunity far from the oppressive hand of European despotism. A place where men could live free and develop a state based upon such a free undertaking. Less then a hundred years saw this happen.

H

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Thursday, June 1, 2006 8:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
But maybe that's the world you'd be happiest in, the world run by Hero, Liberty for all (who think like Hero) death and enslavement for others.

Wow, can't argue with that. I mean you CAN NOT argue with that...otherwise I'll have you killed. HAHAHAHA, evil Hero wanting liberty for all! A world where Jews are allowed to live and women are not property. Where justice involves courts and juries instead of rape and torture rooms (except for terrorists convieniantly located in third party nations). Forcing the world to worship as they choose or don't choose. Demanding we all be either straight or homosexual. Children in schools and not brothels or sweat shops. Armies fighting wars of liberation and security rather then conquest, terror, or ethnic cleansing. Demanding that people rule their own lives rather then giving that power over to would be dicators Washington, some other country, or down the street. Prosecuting innocent Pirates for Driving Whilst Intoxicated or Speeding without a valid Ohio Drivers license. Bow to me and by "bow" I mean stand, sit, smoke, eat, watch TV, go shopping, cheer, complain, take a vacation, build something, invent something, or just plain do nothing and be glad of it so long as its your choice, your voice, your responsibility, and your not going to ever see another Streisand concert, Richard Gere movie, or Senator Hillary Clinton cause even "Hero's World of Perfect Liberty, Harmony, and Justice for All Except Liberal Wackos and Pirates" has its limits. Its a great "World", we're thinking of building in the Orlando area, you should all visit.

H

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Thursday, June 1, 2006 8:46 AM

Well you talk the talk (nearly) but you don't walk the walk.

In you world I'm a deluded evil person who deserves to die because I'm happy being British and living in Britain, where as we all know you've decided the only people worthy of life or Liberty are those that are right-wing Americans or people who want to be right-wing Americans.

Sorry what you call liberty isn't.

You don't want liberty for all, you want to impose your will on all, I realise it's possible you don't know the difference, but I think everyone should know exactly what it is you're saying when you say 'Liberty'.

Conservative wackos who decide unilaterally who is worthy of life and who is worthy of liberty, based entirely on whether those they judge are also conservative wackos are the wackos that fit you’re personal seal of approval I suppose.

So yes bow to Hero, and by that I mean stand, sit, smoke, eat, watch TV, go shopping, cheer, complain, take a vacation, build something, invent something, or just plain do nothing, just make sure you do it in the good conservative way or you’re a liberal which mean’s you are evil and at fault for everything, therefore must be shot.

Also think like Hero and his narrow view of American thought, anything else is a thought crime and you will be put in a camp to be taught how to think properly, in the nicest possible way of course.

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Thursday, June 1, 2006 8:47 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

"I DEMAND you rule your own life!"
Wow, now ain't THAT an oxymoron?

EDIT: Citizen I think you've hit the nail on the head. Our self-styled "Hero" would ram liberty- oh and BTW capitalism- down everyone's throat. I have nothing against liberty; in fact I enjoy it quite a bit and I wish the right wing would actually practice it more often instead of using it as an excuse for invasion and loss of civil liberty.

I'd like to promote liberty, but I think that MOST people actually have a Hobbesian view of the world. Security, employment, some control over the future.... liberty really comes at the end of that list, when everything else is taken care of (a little bit like Maslow's hieracrchy of needs but on a societal scale).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs

"Hero" just can't imagine that anyone else might be different but might also be right.
---------------------------------
Don't piss in my face and tell me it's raining.

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Thursday, June 1, 2006 9:12 AM

FLETCH2

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Its a great "World", we're thinking of building in the Orlando area, you should all visit.

H

But will there be amusing hats with ears on them? If the answer is no then I'm not interested, I have my standards.....

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Thursday, June 1, 2006 9:14 AM

FLETCH2

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
"I DEMAND you rule your own life!"

Wow, now ain't THAT an oxymoron?

---------------------------------
Don't piss in my face and tell me it's raining.

Isn't an oxymoron someone too stupid to use pimple creme?

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Thursday, June 1, 2006 9:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Also think like Hero and his narrow view of American thought, anything else is a thought crime and you will be put in a camp to be taught how to think properly, in the nicest possible way of course.

Liberals invented political correctness, sensitivity trainng, reverse discrimination, and sexual harrassment lawsuits.

Liberals also seem unusually tolerant of abberrant lifestyles like people who want to have sex with children, have more then one wife, take druges, commit violent crimes, and kill Jews (and their American puppets in the WTC).

Liberals like bugs, birds, animals, and trees, and hate jobs, industry, invention, and prosperity.

And the British of the 21st Century have more in common with Americans of the 18th Century then they do with their British ancestors. Heck, you bloody commoners can even own your own land these days. And I loves me a good episode of Doctor Who I does...and not just the new ones, Tom Baker is my favorite. And what real American doesn't enjoy Fish and Chips (aka Long John Silver's) and a spot of tea (Snapple) once in a while? What right thinking Brit can go without watching American Idol while sipping a coke and trying to decide if you'll go see the WWE live in Manchester or just catch it on the Tele? And terrorists have been attacking London since before it became fashionable.

Gee, maybe $85 million is too much if it means souring Anglo-American relations...(and he swerves back on topic.)

H

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Thursday, June 1, 2006 10:21 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fletch2:
But will there be amusing hats with ears on them? If the answer is no then I'm not interested, I have my standards.....

Actually we are thinking of using real ears taken from Jihadists who bought the special Paradise Package (comes with a free beverage coupon and an optional side tripe to sunny Camp Gitmo).

H

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Thursday, June 1, 2006 12:46 PM

So Hero are you saying in your brave new world I'm okay because I'm really an American, because in it's own little way that could be considered insulting

.

As for your anti-Liberal rant it's also fair for me to say that Conservatives discriminate against...

Everyone.

For all your hatred of Liberals it was liberal movements that got Women the vote, liberal movements that have spread democracy, not conservative, because conservatives aim to perpetuate the status quo.

That’s why they’re called conservatives, they aim to conserve. As for liberals there’s no accident that they have a name that sounds so similar to liberty…

Myself, unlike you it would seem, believe that there is a place for both in the world, cutting one out leads to tyranny, as tyranny is always what happens when one group gets everything they want to the exclusion of all else.

But if you want to remove liberals from the picture because they’re the cause of everything I guess you must enjoy tyranny, as long as you are the one dishing it out.

And not wanting to get into the environment debate but not considering the environment is stupid and short sighted.

We are for want of a better term, parasites on this spinning globe, if we kill it for short term gain what use is all that money when the Human race has ceased to be? The most successful parasites are the one's that don't 'kill' their hosts.

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Thursday, June 1, 2006 12:48 PM

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Yes HERO

But his America, included French colonies, Spanish colonies, Dutch colonies, blah b;ah blah ad infinitum - and was therefore NOT AMERICAN.

Perhaps you should go find a map of this continent, circa 1690.

America as in the US is no better than any other country and we have no right to impose OUR way of life on anyone.

If you can't understand that perhaps you should go live on a compound in Montana - or are you there already?

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Thursday, June 1, 2006 12:55 PM

REAVERMAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Liberals invented political correctness,

which is a good thing to a certain extent, but has become a major irritation.

Quote:
sexual harrassment lawsuits.

So, to you, a woman shouldn't be property, but a man should be able to say/do/touch whatever he wants? Isn't that kind of like being property?

Quote:
Liberals also seem unusually tolerant of abberrant lifestyles like people who want to have sex with children,

Funny, I haven't seen too many NAMBLA supporters out there. Huh, maybe its just you with your "conservative vision" that allows you to see everything that is invisible to the rest of the world.

Quote:
have more then one wife,

If the women agree and have a way to get out if they change their minds, then yeah, thats alright with me.

Quote:
take druges,

Also okay with me, so long as you dont hurt anyone else (BTW, its DRUGS, not druges)

Quote:
commit violent crimes, and kill Jews (and their American puppets in the WTC).

Commiting violent crimes? Not okay. Killing Jews? If I remember correctly, the Fascists are the ones after the Jews, and they're right wingers. The WTO? I think it needs to be seriously reeled in and reformed. But Killing them off? Also not okay with me.

Quote:
Liberals like bugs, birds, animals, and trees, and hate jobs, industry, invention, and prosperity.

Actually I find many birds quite irritating. Insects are also pests. Animals are all well and good so long as they dont get in the way of my car or maul me or something. As for the rest: Bullshit. What the hell do you think Socialism is all about? Its about making your jobs worthwhile and fair so you can prosper. Maybe you should read up on it before you blindly follow the party line once again.

Quote:
What right thinking Brit can go without watching American Idol while sipping a coke and trying to decide if you'll go see the WWE live in Manchester or just catch it on the Tele?

Quite a few, actually, would be my guess, but Neither of us live in Britain, so we really shouldn't assume to know much of anything about them.

You're welcome on my boat. God ain't.

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Thursday, June 1, 2006 3:36 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Liberals invented political correctness, sensitivity trainng, reverse discrimination, and sexual harrassment lawsuits.

Liberals also seem unusually tolerant of abberrant lifestyles like people who want to have sex with children, have more then one wife, take druges, commit violent crimes, and kill Jews (and their American puppets in the WTC).

Liberals like bugs, birds, animals, and trees, and hate jobs, industry, invention, and prosperity.

Is this ad hominem or straw man? Prolly straw man. OK, well let me do some of my own then... Neocons want to kill almost everyone. Neocons lie, cheat, steal, beat their wives and have sex with their kids. Neocons eat their own boogers. (oops sorry that's ad hominem.) Neocons have the Bible in one hand and a gun in the other. Neocons would destroy the entire world for short-term profit. Neocons wouldn't know a fact if it fell on them from ten stories up.

---------------------------------
Out of practice being an *sshole.

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Thursday, June 1, 2006 4:29 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

SignyM,

Was out of town all day. I just saw this and had to respond: "Our self-styled "Hero" would ram liberty- oh and BTW capitalism- down everyone's throat.". You SURE Zero means to ram it down everyone's throat? He seems too sexually frustrated for that. And where's the fun in that, when you could ram it up everyone's ...

Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

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Thursday, June 1, 2006 4:32 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

ZERO

What the HELL are you talking about? I know you don't read other people's posts, but do you even read your own?

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Also think like Hero and his narrow view of American thought, anything else is a thought crime and you will be put in a camp to be taught how to think properly, in the nicest possible way of course.

Liberals invented political correctness, sensitivity trainng, reverse discrimination, and sexual harrassment lawsuits.

Liberals also seem unusually tolerant of abberrant lifestyles like people who want to have sex with children, have more then one wife, take druges, commit violent crimes, and kill Jews (and their American puppets in the WTC).

Liberals like bugs, birds, animals, and trees, and hate jobs, industry, invention, and prosperity.

And the British of the 21st Century have more in common with Americans of the 18th Century then they do with their British ancestors. Heck, you bloody commoners can even own your own land these days. And I loves me a good episode of Doctor Who I does...and not just the new ones, Tom Baker is my favorite. And what real American doesn't enjoy Fish and Chips (aka Long John Silver's) and a spot of tea (Snapple) once in a while? What right thinking Brit can go without watching American Idol while sipping a coke and trying to decide if you'll go see the WWE live in Manchester or just catch it on the Tele? And terrorists have been attacking London since before it became fashionable.

Gee, maybe $85 million is too much if it means souring Anglo-American relations...(and he swerves back on topic.)

H

Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

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Thursday, June 1, 2006 4:44 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"Liberals also seem unusually tolerant of abberrant lifestyles like people who want to have sex with children, have more then one wife, take druges, commit violent crimes, and kill Jews (and their American puppets in the WTC).

Liberals like bugs, birds, animals, and trees, and hate jobs, industry, invention, and prosperity."

Hero,

I had to comment on this. It seems you swerved away from logic here.

I can't recall Liberals advocating pedophilia, violent crime, or anti-semitism. I'm also not sure what you mean when you say 'American puppets in the WTC.' This sounds rather like something PirateNews might say.

I also don't think Liberals hate jobs, industry, invention, or prosperity.

I do think Liberals are tolerant of alternative lifestyles like homosexuality and polygamy. I think this is because neither of these lifestyles cause damage to anyone when they are shared by consenting adults.

I also think there is a Liberal movement to legalize marijuana, and it is a movement I support because I don't think marijuana use can be combatted effectively (and I'm not certain the deliterious effects of the drug are much more severe than smoking while getting drunk.)

I have very recently written on another thread to a firefly community member named 'Dallas' because she/he made some rather negative remarks about southerners and republicans, painting millions of people with a single brush and color.

I would be remiss if I didn't remind you, Hero, not to stereotype 'Liberals' and paint them all with the same brush.

We're all people, Hero. When examined individually, our labels don't always stick.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Thursday, June 1, 2006 6:37 PM

SASSALICIOUS

Quote:
American Manifest Destiny to bring the blessings of liberty to a dark and stormy world

Manifest Destiny is the exact same way we justified the obsessive push to the west, the slaughter of the Native Americans, and the invasion of the Philippines. Manifest Destiny isn't necessarily something to be proud of.

Specifically looking at Reagan now (the others were president (i think with the exception of Eisenhower) when european colonialism was still all the rage), but I think anyone who is willing to maintain a relationship with brutal dictators isn't worth being considered a good president, leader, person, etc. During the Reagan era we had Pinochet, Marcos, and Suharto. I'm fairly certain Saddam was around then too. None of these three were minor warlords squabbling in Africa (though those atrocities should also register on the radar), but instead were well known leaders of countries supported by the U.S.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Thursday, June 1, 2006 7:09 PM

MAMASAID

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
My ire goes to only a very few people - I count, let me think ... Slick, Zero, Geezer2, Unwrapped, and Finn, who hasn't been christened yet.

Well, I wouldn't want to fall down on the job, so...

Pres. Bush lies, twists facts, and takes things out of context, so he should be impeached and prosecuted.

Mr. Moore lies, twists facts, and takes things out of context, and should be praised for providing a valuable public service.

Why the difference?

Could it be that Mr. Moore's lies, fact twisting, and taking out of context support your point of view? Does "right" and "wrong" finally just come down to what Rue thinks?

Ired enough yet?

BTW, I bet Mr. Moore is giggling with glee about this lawsuit. He knows any publicity is good publicity, and that this sort of controversy will just make his supporters more rabid in his defense. It's sure working here.

"If Darwin Ain't Happy,
Ain't Nobody Happy"

The difference, Geezer, is that Bush is the elected (sort of) leader of the most powerful country in the world, and Michael Moore is an ornery, fame hungry film maker, with no elected power. People like myself would reserve their ire for Bush not because we like Moore (which I don't; he does bad for my issues by being an ass) but because he has real power.

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Thursday, June 1, 2006 7:28 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Hey Monolycus,

Are you new around here? I personally think this issue (the lawsuit) is not news but merely a smokescreen for real news. However, I think I needed to respond since this kind of deception, if unchallenged, becomes credible.

Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

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Thursday, June 1, 2006 7:32 PM

MAMASAID

Hero...you ramble endlessly. I agree with you on your libertarian bent (and don't understand how at all you would categorize yourself with Republicans these days). You say you are a "good old Republican" which is odd, but I understand. The problem is that there is no such thing these days. The Republicans these days are not the states rights, libertarian, small government loving Republicans of yore. They hate gays, as you seem not too, they like to meddle and tell us what to think, etc. You need a new label.

Also, America was at best ambivalent in entering the European Theater of the war. When it came to picking sides during the 1930's, America felt more brotherhood with Germany over France, Poland, and the Sudentland of Czech. And I belive it was the Democratic president (which, may I assume you have a great dislike for) FDR who brought us quite unexpectedly quickly into the European Theater of World War II.

Get some direction to your talking and have some consistancy, man.

Citizen, I often find myself agreeing with you as well, but you have the tact of an elephant.

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Thursday, June 1, 2006 8:14 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

MONOLYCUS

I was curious, so I went back to skim through the posts.

With one exception, the people on the liberal side posted wide-ranging but thoughtful discussions. They didn't discredit themselves in any way.

The extreme, vile, deranged postings came from Hero, with Geezer throwing in.

And as for myself, the exception, I've given up trying to argue logically with idiots. I've taken up posting my piece and then amusing myself with making up nicknames and trying to bait them. All in fun, of course.

Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

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Friday, June 2, 2006 1:42 AM

DALLASFIREFLY

It's a frivolous lawsuit, one that won't make it far. Interesting that Republicans are usually the ones whining about frivolous lawsuits tying up our legal system. Loss of reputation? What reputation? Is this guy a celeb or a public figure? Everyone who appears on camera in documentaries has to sign a waiver authorizing use of their interview, despite this guy claiming he didn't give Moore permission to use the footage, he almost certainly did, perhaps not personally to Moore, but to one of the people involved in F 9/11. If this guy signed off, that will the end of the case. The waivers never say, we can use this part of your interview, but not this part. The entire interview would have been authorized, so the guy has no case of any merit, assuming that Moore's people did their job and got a signed authorization/release. He's just pissed off and trying to get attention, and/or money. Time will tell of course, but I would be surprised if this guy gets one penny for his troubles. I wonder how many millions he tried to get out of Moore before going public?

I wanna be Mr. Baccarin!

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Friday, June 2, 2006 3:25 AM

AMITON

Quote:

It's a frivolous lawsuit, one that won't make it far. Interesting that Republicans are usually the ones whining about frivolous lawsuits tying up our legal system. Loss of reputation? What reputation? Is this guy a celeb or a public figure? Everyone who appears on camera in documentaries has to sign a waiver authorizing use of their interview, despite this guy claiming he didn't give Moore permission to use the footage, he almost certainly did, perhaps not personally to Moore, but to one of the people involved in F 9/11. If this guy signed off, that will the end of the case. The waivers never say, we can use this part of your interview, but not this part. The entire interview would have been authorized, so the guy has no case of any merit, assuming that Moore's people did their job and got a signed authorization/release. He's just pissed off and trying to get attention, and/or money. Time will tell of course, but I would be surprised if this guy gets one penny for his troubles. I wonder how many millions he tried to get out of Moore before going public?

That's a big presumption, DallasFirefly. I'm pretty sure that Michael Moore has gooten in trouble for not securing proper releases for his infomercials in the past (I can't in good conscience call them documentaries anymore). I could be wrong, but I also think that most of the bigger management people involved with the distribution of F 9/11 backed out. I'm pretty sure Disney dropped all ties with it. Miramax has always been kind of a maverick company, too. I don't think they'd put themselves out too much to make sure that an independent film by someone as sure to drum up as much press as Michael Moore, not to mention in a film squarely aimed at discrediting the Bush Administration.

You could very well be right that a release was secured, but the best odds that I would give it in this case are even. The case has more than a likely chance of being thrown out, but I wouldn't bet it's going to be over the presence of a release *given to Moore, et al.* to use his likeness. If the release comes into play, I would say it's more likely the one given to NBC and whether that broadcast is then considered public domain.

Amiton.

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Friday, June 2, 2006 3:52 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Monolycus- We come to this board to discuss things, not to shut up. Where would be the fun in staying quiet? It's always a sad day when anyone - right, left, green, or purple- leaves the board. Unfortunately so many right-wingers have left the board that I may have to play devil's advocate. YIKES!

---------------------------------
Be prepared to see a BIG CHANGE in SignyM!

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Friday, June 2, 2006 4:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
That’s why they’re called conservatives, they aim to conserve. As for liberals there’s no accident that they have a name that sounds so similar to liberty…

I see your problem. Your confusing the word conservative with the label conservative. Conservative and liberal mean different things at different points in history. Just because I'm a conservative does not mean I think the world is flat and that we should all stay loyal to the King.

Those folk labled today as conservatives were the liberals who conceived a nation of liberty with what at the time were radical liberal notions. These same folk wanted to free the slaves.

The real trap you are in is assuming the political spectrum is two dimensional with a left and a right. Turns out there is a right and a wrong as well. A real conservatice, classic Republican, and those people who share my values are right on both accounts. The labels change, the values never have.

The same is true for radical leftists whose agenda is at odds with the values traditionally associated with the left. Those people are no more liberals then radical right wingers are true conservatives. Left, right, right wrong...thats the political spectrum.

H

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Friday, June 2, 2006 4:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
But his America, included French colonies, Spanish colonies, Dutch colonies, blah b;ah blah ad infinitum - and was therefore NOT AMERICAN.

Perhaps you should go find a map of this continent, circa 1690.

He was speaking of America the idea, which has always been so much more then a geographical or political entity...perhaps he was even the first philosopher to conceptualize that which history evolved into the American Dream.

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Its the "yearning to breathe free" part that sums up the American Dream. They come still by the millions, but there are a few billion more who want to come but can't or don't want to give up their own nation...but the yearning remains. So why not be free in Germany, be free in Japan, South Africa, Argentina, South Korea, Afganistan, Egypt, Iraq...liberty knows no borders and she knows no cultural barrier. She has a home prepared in the hearts of us all free and slave alike. Such has been the policy of the United States for sixty years.

H

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Friday, June 2, 2006 4:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
What the HELL are you talking about? I know you don't read other people's posts, but do you even read your own?

Citizen and I were having an ongoing discussion which included comparison of Britain and American notions of liberty. Also, I threw in a little line at the end to poke those who complained that we had swerved off topic. Perhaps you could go back and read a few other posts yourself.

H

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Friday, June 2, 2006 4:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
I can't recall Liberals advocating pedophilia, violent crime, or anti-semitism. I'm also not sure what you mean when you say 'American puppets in the WTC.' This sounds rather like something PirateNews might say.

I stuck that last bit in there to tweak PN, thats an ongoing inside bit for the anti-PN folk round here.

As for my other assertions there are numerous examples of each...but I'll but one for each catagory:
Pedophilia: ACLU takes up the fight to overturn the limits we are placing on pedophiles access to children...there is also the ACLU taking on ban's on posssion and sale of child porn on the internet.
Violent Crime: Jeez, how many examples do you need here? Lets just go with all the liberal judges handing out little of no sentences for child rape...or perhaps liberal judges that let the guilty walk free on technicalities, or perhaps the international celebrity effort to free a certain cop killer in PA, or geez...just pick up a fracking newpaper.
Anti-semitism: In the US I'd point to certain African-American leaders, and the marginalization of a certain Senator and former VP Candidate...in Europe I'll have to rely on others.

Quote:

I also don't think Liberals hate jobs, industry, invention, or prosperity.

They just advocate polices that place their priority in other areas I guess. Lets seem trees over jobs, field mice over industry, cute little rabbits over invention, and redistribution of wealth over prosperity so that we all can be equally poor, out of work, ravaged by disease or lack of makeup, and poor. But damn...the air is so clean it almost makes up for their starving disease ridden, fashionably challenged children.

Quote:

I do think Liberals are tolerant of alternative lifestyles like homosexuality and polygamy. I think this is because neither of these lifestyles cause damage to anyone when they are shared by consenting adults.

Now, now...I never mentioned homosexuality...thats your own liberal minded decision to make that a negative association. And polygamy is abusive and often involves children.

4.6% unemployment.

H

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Friday, June 2, 2006 5:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Monolycus:

That's fair to say, and it's not my place to try to stamp out free speech or anything... I suppose I was offering my tuppence as a cautionary tale more than anything else. If there's a troll, and I am certainly not pointing to anyone in particular there, they don't go away through regular feedings. As long as everyone is on board with the ground rules as such, carry on.

I always thought the whole troll idea was pretty straight foreward. You've got the real wacko's like the Pirates. Then you've got the the people who can't be civil.

Now take this discussion. Its heated, passionate, but generally contains a very civil discussion between people with divergent points of view. Seriously, how many troll posts engage in a dialogue on the finer points of Locke versus Hobbes.

In any event, on review my only poor sportmanship seems to be the occaisional smartass remark, which is mainly to keep it light and the deliberate pokes at people like PN. If this crosses some imaginary line then it serves to prove my point...liberals can't tolerate dissent whilst I, the lone voice of reason...ok, not lone, but definately a voice, anyway whilst I welcome discussion.

Now I gotta run for awhile, people need jailin for the weekend and thats my job.

H

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Friday, June 2, 2006 5:11 AM

RIVER6213

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:
Originally posted by Monolycus:

That's fair to say, and it's not my place to try to stamp out free speech or anything... I suppose I was offering my tuppence as a cautionary tale more than anything else. If there's a troll, and I am certainly not pointing to anyone in particular there, they don't go away through regular feedings. As long as everyone is on board with the ground rules as such, carry on.

I always thought the whole troll idea was pretty straight foreward. You've got the real wacko's like the Pirates. Then you've got the the people who can't be civil.

Now take this discussion. Its heated, passionate, but generally contains a very civil discussion between people with divergent points of view. Seriously, how many troll posts engage in a dialogue on the finer points of Locke versus Hobbes.

In any event, on review my only poor sportmanship seems to be the occaisional smartass remark, which is mainly to keep it light and the deliberate pokes at people like PN. If this crosses some imaginary line then it serves to prove my point...liberals can't tolerate dissent whilst I, the lone voice of reason...ok, not lone, but definately a voice, anyway whilst I welcome discussion.

Now I gotta run for awhile, people need jailin for the weekend and thats my job.

H

*Laughter*

HERO, you are in no way the voice of reason. You sound like a control freak.

River

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Friday, June 2, 2006 5:25 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Zero,

Were you discussing LIBERTY when you said:

Liberals invented political correctness, sensitivity trainng, reverse discrimination, and sexual harrassment lawsuits.
Liberals also seem unusually tolerant of abberrant lifestyles like people who want to have sex with children, have more then one wife, take druges, commit violent crimes, and kill Jews (and their American puppets in the WTC).
Liberals like bugs, birds, animals, and trees, and hate jobs, industry, invention, and prosperity.
And the British of the 21st Century have more in common with Americans of the 18th Century then they do with their British ancestors. Heck, you bloody commoners can even own your own land these days. And I loves me a good episode of Doctor Who I does...and not just the new ones, Tom Baker is my favorite. And what real American doesn't enjoy Fish and Chips (aka Long John Silver's) and a spot of tea (Snapple) once in a while? What right thinking Brit can go without watching American Idol while sipping a coke and trying to decide if you'll go see the WWE live in Manchester or just catch it on the Tele? And terrorists have been attacking London since before it became fashionable.

Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

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Friday, June 2, 2006 6:09 AM