Quote:

---

Originally posted by Causal:
I'm serious--why should I not be glad that he's gone? If for no other reason than that he had it coming to him.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED !
Iraq had turned yet another corner !
... and is now going in circles
Originally posted by kaneman:
Not all of Iraq..just the terrorist. Most little critters with no where to run or hide tend to go in circles...or hide in little holes in the floor of shacks with urine in their pants.

---

Quote:

---

I suggest the war was legal only because Congress voted to authorize military action*.... Now if another power... subsequently invades and occupies the United States then as happened following World War II they can dictate justice by holding the American leaders accountable to their own arbitrary standards that may or may not have existed prior to the conflict.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by chrisisall:

If Mal had killed the Operative, there would have been that movie-moment of "Yeah! That's what you get- JERK!!!" But life and change and growth are what we should all be aiming at being glad for.

*Buddhist rant over*

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:

I believe in another thread you posted about your support of the death penalty. Why the sudden contradiction?

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SignyM:
In other words, might makes right. Democracy, liberty and the rule of law don't come into it.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by chrisisall:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SignyM:
In other words, might makes right. Democracy, liberty and the rule of law don't come into it.

---

I believe that was Hero's whole point; we are the might and we are right. Those dogs that copy us without prior written permission are wrong.

Simplifying Chrisisall

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:

So by that logic, when the day comes and your little empire is beaten down and put in its place, that will be all and good too...

Hope for the future

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by chrisisall:
I support the use of vitamin-C, even though it aids in shortening the life of a cold virus too, what's your point?

---

Quote:

---

Seems like you're de-lurking to get yourself stirred up.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:


De-lurking to stir stuff up (but in a good way).

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by chrisisall:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SignyM:
In other words, might makes right. Democracy, liberty and the rule of law don't come into it.

---

I believe that was Hero's whole point; we are the might and we are right. Those dogs that copy us without prior written permission are wrong.

Simplifying Chrisisall

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by HKCavalier:

What's ironic is that, really, it's America's progressive past that justifies Hero's jingoism. American liberalism, freeing slaves, granting women the right to vote, the civil rights movement, constitutional democracy itself, these are the things that make Americans feel so good about this country. We are the good guys, and because we are so good, we are incapable of going to war for the wrong reasons.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Hero:
Now a personal note: Yesterday was a great day for America when we bombed and killed an important Al Queda leader. It was a bittersweet victory for us locally as I have just learned that yesterday a City police officer called to active service in Iraq was killed in action. He was a good man, devoted husband and father, and a proud public servant. He believed in the mission and was proud to be called. He will be missed. I'm closing my part in this discussion out of respect for him. I will observe silence on this board until after the funeral. I want to thank those of you of all sides who engage in this spirited debate. I think the honost dialogue of those who choose to disagree is a testiment to the system our soldiers are dying to serve.
H

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by HKCavalier:

We are the good guys, and because we are so good, we are incapable of going to war for the wrong reasons.

---

Quote:

---

...Fascists, I'm learning, never have the slightest clue that they're fascists; as far as they're conserned they're just looking at the harsh realities of life and supporting those policies that manfully face up to the tough decisions we have to make in an imperfect world.

---

Quote:

---

Might doesn't make right, being American makes right.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Being the man Zarqawi was, he was asking for death. It's like getting rid of a cold virus; it needs to be done, but to take gladdness or even joy from another man's death is to give up some part of your humanity, at least that would be my reason.

If Mal had killed the Operative, there would have been that movie-moment of "Yeah! That's what you get- JERK!!!" But life and change and growth are what we should all be aiming at being glad for.

*Buddhist rant over*

Chrisisall

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Causal:
I also believe (unpopular as this may be) that there are just some things a person can do to forfeit their right to draw air--and the repeated, gleeful murder of innocents certainly qualifies.

---

Quote:

---

there are just some things a person can do to forfeit their right to draw air--and the repeated, gleeful murder of innocents certainly qualifies.

---

Quote:

---

"Steadfast in our purpose, we now press on. We have known freedom's price. We have shown freedom's power. And in this great conflict, my fellow Americans, we will see freedom's victory." G.W. Bush, 2002.

---

Quote:

---

Now a personal note: Yesterday was a great day for America when we bombed and killed an important Al Queda leader. It was a bittersweet victory for us locally as I have just learned that yesterday a City police officer called to active service in Iraq was killed in action. He was a good man, devoted husband and father, and a proud public servant. He believed in the mission and was proud to be called. He will be missed. I'm closing my part in this discussion out of respect for him. I will observe silence on this board until after the funeral. I want to thank those of you of all sides who engage in this spirited debate. I think the honost dialogue of those who choose to disagree is a testiment to the system our soldiers are dying to serve.- H


Sorry for your loss, Hero. Thanks to and prayers for your friend.-Geezer

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SignyM:
I noticed that Hero didn't say that this was a friend. Am I the only one who thinks that Hero's attendance at war dead funerals is just a little... creepy?

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:
Causal,

It wouldn't have been a referendum on dubya except Zero chose to lead off with this:

Quote:

---

"Steadfast in our purpose, we now press on. We have known freedom's price. We have shown freedom's power. And in this great conflict, my fellow Americans, we will see freedom's victory." G.W. Bush, 2002.

---

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:
Oh puhlleeeeze.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Geezer:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:
Oh puhlleeeeze.

---

Yep.

Hero's friend died, my father and several relatives spent years fighting in WWII, my brother-in-law and many of my friends died in Vietnam, and I spent a year there...just so you could have the right to be sarcastic without the secret police taking you off to a cell and putting a bullet in your head. You're welcome.

Freedom isn't free. Too bad you don't realize that fact. But that's your right too. Consider how many people died for your right to be cutesy.

"If Darwin ain't Happy,
Ain't Nobody Happy"

---

Quote:

---

You'd rather see freedom's defeat?

---

Quote:

---

Hero's friend died, my father and several relatives spent years fighting in WWII, my brother-in-law and many of my friends died in Vietnam, and I spent a year there...just so you could have the right to be sarcastic without the secret police taking you off to a cell and putting a bullet in your head. You're welcome.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SignyM:
Ah there's the rub. Geezer, I hate to pop your bubble but Vietnam, like Iraq didn't guarantee anyone's freedom. Vietnam DID eventually go Communist and what happened?


..... Nothing. Yep- nothing. The dominoes didn't fall. Japan wasn't threatened. Shipping wasn't endangered. The USA government wasn't overrun by gooks and slant-eyes. I sorrowfully conclude that the 50,000 American dead including your BIL... and the many hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese dead... was really all for nothing. And I reluctantly ask you to show me otherwise. Reluctantly because this (not Iraq or GW Bush) is what you've been arguing all along.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Geezer:
Maybe that 15 year delay - that show of resolve - kept the chain reaction from starting.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Geezer:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:
Causal,

It wouldn't have been a referendum on dubya except Zero chose to lead off with this:

Quote:

---

"Steadfast in our purpose, we now press on. We have known freedom's price. We have shown freedom's power. And in this great conflict, my fellow Americans, we will see freedom's victory." G.W. Bush, 2002.

---

---

You'd rather see freedom's defeat?

"If Darwin ain't Happy,
Ain't Nobody Happy"

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by citizen:
Then why didn't Communism 'beating' Capitalism even given its resolve not kick start more revolutions? If it can happen there why not here sort of thing?

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
I notice that the taboo of publishing pictures of dead / captured soldiers is being ignored again ?

I suppose the objectors will only come out when its video of US marines hanging from lamp posts or some such thing.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:
Slick,

My parents survived Nazi Germany and Russia. My grandparents survived worse. They fought for their freedom and their country on their soil. They REALLY fought for freedom.

Vietnam? Iraq? That's just the US being a dick with other countries.

---

Quote:

---

I'm trying for a logical correlation as to how your ancestors fighting for freedom makes the US a dick, but can't find it.

---

Quote:

---

Yep.
Hero's friend died, my father and several relatives spent years fighting in WWII, my brother-in-law and many of my friends died in Vietnam, and I spent a year there...just so you could have the right to be sarcastic without the secret police taking you off to a cell and putting a bullet in your head.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Y'know, there's this idea we use to justify our overseas militarism "Better to fight them on the other side of the world than on our doorstep (or words to that effect)." I'm thinking from Rue's point of view, and certainly from my own, that that sort of thinking is actually kinda immoral. No, morally, it ain't better, 'cause war should never ever be a mere expedient. It shouldn't be used simply to make life easier for anyone anywhere. War should be on your doorstep before you get involved, because otherwise you really don't know what you're doing; too much possibility of being, as Rue says, "a dick."

---

Quote:

---

So Rue's parents fought for their freedom and knew they were doing so, while we fight in Iraq and two thirds of the country has no real appreciation for why we're there. Geezer, coming from a military family, you have an advantage over most of us when it comes to understanding a real, grounded context for American militarism--doesn't make you right, but it might make you wonder what a lot of us are smoking.

---

Quote:

---

Here at home we're completely dependent on where we get our information, whom we trust, etc. Having to trust someone else's assessment of why we're at war is an impossible situation.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Geezer:
my Vietnamese counterparts told me they were still ready to fight for their freedom. I still feel bad about leaving them. As far as I'm concerned, the only "dicking around" we did there was in not finishing the job.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:
Good luck to you in your life.

---

Quote:

---

You also have to wonder how many Communist insurgencies didn't get off the ground because the Soviet Union and China were spending all their trouble-making budgets in Vietnam. If we'd just decided in 1960 not to fight there maybe the dominoes would have fallen. Maybe that 15 year delay - that show of resolve - kept the chain reaction from starting.

---