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Originally posted by rue:
The thing you keep sliding over is that:
"In May 1994, North Korea shut down the reactor and removed about 8,000 fuel rods, which could be reprocessed into enough plutonium for 4-6 nuclear weapons. North Korea started operating the reactor again in February 2003."

"U.S. intelligence reportedly detected North Korean preparations to restart the plutonium reprocessing plant in February and March 2003."

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I point the finger at Bush.

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No one ever said just let's just trust the N Koreans and go along with whatever. SignyM argued for muscular multilateral action. I said sanctions are a vital tool.

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So, what do you suggest?

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Originally posted by rue:
Here are some other general notable quotes:

"Being the president is hard work."
"It's hard work.
" ... and it's hard work".
"It is hard work."
"Hard work."
"You know, It's hard work.
"Everybody knows it's hard work."
"We've done a lot of hard work."
"I've seen on the TV screens how hard it is.
"Yeah, I, I, I, I, uh ....."

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Originally posted by Geezer:

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Originally posted by SignyM:
"Some experts believe... Your results may vary"

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So you believe North Korea wants...what?

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The Bush Administration disclosed on October 16, 2002, that North Korea had revealed to U.S. Assistant Secretary of State James Kelly in Pyongyang that it was conducting a secret nuclear weapons program based on the process of uranium enrichment.

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Originally posted by rue:
"The Bush Administration disclosed on October 16, 2002, that North Korea had revealed to U.S. Assistant Secretary of State James Kelly in Pyongyang that it was conducting a secret nuclear weapons program based on the process of uranium enrichment."

What happened was this - during talks with Korea Kelly said: we have info you're enriching uranium. The delegates went off to consult with Dear Leader, came back and said: yes we do, and even more dangerous things as well !

Bluff or admission? Hard to tell. But if N Korea had uranium enrichment, why would they restart plutonium processing?

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The other reason this 'factoid' smells is that it's unconfirmed. This is all based on one statement made at (essentially) a negotiating table.

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Originally posted by rue:
Now see, there you go again, misquoting me. Where did I ever say the world or the US should trust N Korea? Please feel free to quote me. Search the entire database. I'd welcome it.

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I just think that hysterical gibbering over N Korea's supposed past activities is 'the dog ate my homework' type of lame. 2003 is when NK verifiably re-started its plutonium work in direct response to Bush's policies. It doesn't take a genius to figure Bush screwed up.

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PS Keep it up and I'll be calling you "Slick" again. You're backsliding into mis-quoting, mis-stating and baiting. Stick to the topic, if you can.

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North Korea has been working the exact same plan for the past 55 years. They have no reason to change. But as far as you can see, it's all Bush's fault.

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Originally posted by rue:
OK, show me where I said N Korea is a good place with well-intentioned honest leaders; ... or anything approaching that, or even implying that.

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hat I'm getting at is that the problem that is N Korea needs to be dealt with intelligently. That means keeping allies you can work with, refraining from needlessly escalating the pissing match, and not making threats you can't back up.

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Like it or not, Clinton actually got N Korea to back down from plutonium processing with the support of BOTH China and Russia.

Now under Bush's goading, N Korea is (allegedly) pursuing uranium enrichment, is definitively restarting the plutonium work it shelved, and is now launching missiles. On top of that, China and Russia aren't supporting the US. That looks like going backwards to me on many fronts.

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Of course Dear Leader is a bad and possibly crazy man. But this immediate crisis (that's been brewing since 2003) is a result of Bush's ineptitude. Like Iraq, N Korea could have been contained with global support. But Bush blew it, and this is the consequence.

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Originally posted by rue:
Now see, there you go again, misquoting me. Where did I ever say the world or the US should trust N Korea? Please feel free to quote me. Search the entire database. I'd welcome it.

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BTW we have still not figured out who made such highly weaponized anthrax

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Ah, so your policy would be to sit down, talk to, and strike a deal with people you already acknowledge can't be trusted. Do you work for the Carter Institute or the UN Weapon Inspectors?

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There's not much to negotiate about except what kind of a bribe we'll offer North Korea to make nice this time.

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Originally posted by rue:
"I vote we get together a battalion of sabre-rattling chairborne rangers led by Hero and Auraptor and drop them in North Korea ..."

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha .... LMAOROTF

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Originally posted by rue:
MY POSITION WAS THAT N KOREA WAS COMING UNDER CONTAINMENT IN RESPONSE TO CLINTON'S THREAT OF SANCTIONS SUPPORTED BY BOTH THE RUSSIANS AND CHINESE.

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THE US DOESN'T HAVE THAT SUPPORT NOW DUE TO BUSH.
I NEVER SAID BUSH HAD COMPLETE POWER. WHAT I SAID WAS THAT GLOBAL COOPERATION WOULD SOLVE THE PROBLEM AND BUSH LOST IT.

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Originally posted by rue:
No Slick, it's up to you to explain your position, rather than mis-characterize mine.

Besides, I'm done dealing with you. You can't help your snakey-ness, and I'm tired of it.

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Originally posted by Telrich:

So do our current policies seem to be making a better future, or are we simply overextending ourselves with Imperialism just like the once great Romans?

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Originally posted by rue:
Unwrapped,

If you'll notice I didn't call you sabre-rattlers, I was quoting someone else. And I was laughing at the "chairborne rangers" phrase which I carefully put in italics.

When you learn to read, please let me know.

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The Japanese draft, under Chapter 7 of the U.N. Charter which allows military enforcement, demands that North Korea immediately stop developing, testing, deploying and selling ballistic missiles.

It would ban all U.N. member states from acquiring North Korean missiles or weapons of mass destruction _ or the parts or technology to produce them _ and order all countries to take steps to prevent any material, technology or money for missile or weapons programs from reaching the North.

The draft resolution also urges North Korea to immediately return to six-party talks, which have been stalled since September.

Japanese officials also said Monday that negotiations may not be enough, using rhetoric unprecedented in the country that adopted a pacifist constitution after its defeat in World War II.

"If we accept that there is no other option to prevent an attack ... there is the view that attacking the launch base of the guided missiles is within the constitutional right of self-defense. We need to deepen discussion," Japan's Chief Cabinet Secretary Shinzo Abe said.

"It's irresponsible to do nothing when we know North Korea could riddle us with missiles," echoed Tsutomu Takebe, secretary general of the ruling Liberal Democratic Party. "We should consider measures, including legal changes" required for such an attack, he said.

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Interesting that the sanctions the Russians and Chinese oppose boil down to stopping missle and WMD trade with North Korea. Makes you wonder who sells the most missle and WMD technology to them.

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Originally posted by oldenglanddry:
I have several Bush's in my back yard. There very pretty.

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