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Angry God? Jealous God? Male God? Older and white skinned? hmmmm.

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Originally posted by rue:
Mal4Prez

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Angry God? Jealous God? Male God? Older and white skinned? hmmmm.

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I happen to know that god is old, white male, with long white hair and a big bushy beard, who lives away up here, who's making a list, and checking it twice, gonna find out who's naughty or nice ....

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I happen to know that god is old, white male, with long white hair and a big long white beard, who lives away up here, who's making a list, and checking it twice, gonna find out who's naughty or nice ...

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I do think it is interesting that I, as a Christian, feel I am in the minority and you, as an Atheist, feel that the Christian mindset is more prevalent.

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Originally posted by SignyM:

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I do think it is interesting that I, as a Christian, feel I am in the minority and you, as an Atheist, feel that the Christian mindset is more prevalent.

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I think Xtians tend to fall prey to the persecution complex. That's why they feel so alone and vulnerable as part of a militant majority. Martyrdom is a big part of their religion and besides, it goes well with the whole idea of looking at the universe through a veil of fear and into the abyss of hell.

There's nothing like a twitchy paranoid to ruin your day. Especially if he lives in the WH.

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Originally posted by rue:
"Damn, I guess that means I'm getting a lump of coal again! " Lump of coal, burn in hell - there's an weird symmetry about that.

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Let's go with Misbehaven's alien theory... oh wait, the scientologists beat us to it.

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what's the WH?

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Originally posted by RugBug:
Mal4Prez: I don't believe God is either white or entirely male. I think he embodies all aspects of male and female. I use the term 'he' for God because of a patriarchal interpretation of the bible. I do believe he can be angry and jealous, but only in the most positive aspects of those words: righteous anger, etc. But again, those characteristics are not the full embodiment of God. He is also loving, caring, kind, selfless, etc. Basically, anything good you see in humans is a reflection of the goodness of God.

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So, my primary argument against most organized religions - the ones I experience most in the US, for example - is that they make God too small. Why would a force that can create the system of itsy bitsy particles that make quarks that make protons and neutrons and electrons that combine just so to make the elements that combine to form water and rock and my skin and everything else and our planet and on and on ...

...be interested in whether two men want to be in love and have sex?

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I don't believe God is either white or entirely male. I think he embodies all aspects of male and female. I use the term 'he' for God because of a patriarchal interpretation of the bible. I do believe he can be angry and jealous, but only in the most positive aspects of those words: righteous anger, etc. But again, those characteristics are not the full embodiment of God. He is also loving, caring, kind, selfless, etc. Basically, anything good you see in humans is a reflection of the goodness of God.

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Originally posted by RugBug:
That's a load of crap. I am neither twitchy nor paranoid and have no persecution complex.

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Basically, anything good you see in humans is a reflection of the goodness of God.

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Wrong as the superior but oh so distant being defines it. That's so limited, and leaves room for people to mess with it in very damaging ways. (Hello pedophiles!)

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Originally posted by citizen:

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Originally posted by RugBug:
That's a load of crap. I am neither twitchy nor paranoid and have no persecution complex.

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I think Signym has a point, it's not going to work for everyone of course but Christians, or at least the vocal ones, do have a big persecution complex. "We were fed to the lions!" excepts it was Christians doin' most of the feedin' and 'pagans' doin' most of the foodin'. How often do we hear how Christmas is under attack, how Christianity is under attack? Seems to me the vocal christians see that they're under attack whenever they don't get everything their own way. Sure not all Christians are like that, but a very vocal proportion are. In fact my aunt took great offence to my decistion to not be Christian.

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Originally posted by rue:
How could god have righteous anger? The point's been made before, but if god made everything, and is all powerful, how could (s)he(s) be angry at anything that happens? Is god saying DOH!

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Originally posted by RiveR6213:
God can kiss my ass.

River

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Originally posted by RugBug:
That's her perogative and she's not out hurting anyone....

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BTW, Yin/Yang is eastern spiritual philosophy and yet we are debating the "western" God.

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Originally posted by rue:
So I was considering all those people who were born before Jesus, those who were geographically isolated and never heard the word, those who were simply brought up with other beliefs and couldn't disown them ...

I haven't come across any argument that would make me rethink that choice.

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Originally posted by rue:
It puts your notion of god into a quandry.

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YinYang: I too have a problem with people of any religion, but especially mine, who use God to justify prejudice and bigotry. Makes my skin crawl. Those attitudes just cannot be biblically supported, but ignorance and hate is rampant everywhere, even in the church.

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Originally posted by citizen:
Without evil there is no good, Yin and Yang, Hot and Cold, two sides of the same coin. I think if there is a God and a Devil then surely they are one in the same, desctruction is required for creation.

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Originally posted by yinyang:
It's the "I'm right because God's on my side" complex that really makes me angry, because there is no logic or debate with a person like that.

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Originally posted by RugBug:
My point wasn't depth of knowledge, but rather total different foundations of thought/belief so how can an argument every reach a conclusion?

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In other words: You're playing soccer, I'm playing football

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and yet we're debating the rules of the game.

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Originally posted by Fizzix:
Scientifically, there is no such thing as cold.

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Originally posted by misbehaven:

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state these facts please.

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I think we all know the world is billions of years old, not thousands. It was created over billions of years, not in seven days. I think it safe to say man wasn't created from a pile of dirt, nor woman from rib. Do I really need to go on here?

Besides I'm not trying to convert anyone to Atheism, so I really don't think the burden of proof is on me to illustrate that God doesn't exist. I think it should be firmly placed on those who believe he does, since they expect me to devout my life to him.

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Originally posted by citizen:

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Originally posted by Fizzix:
Scientifically, there is no such thing as cold.

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Erm in that case scientifically there is no such thing as hot. Hot and cold are arbitary labels we apply to the scale of thermal energy which is merely atomic excitation.

Antarctica can be cold, but compared to an asteroid in deep space at roughly cosmic background temperature (~3k) it is extremly hot.

Cold is the opposite of Hot, taken strictly neither exist scientifically.

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Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
This is a case of 2 completely different belief systems and I just don't see how they can be compared.

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Originally posted by citizen:
Our universe collapsed into a point of singularity, although the 'Big Crunch' took Billions of years to play out the final collapse took billionths of a second and the resulting singularity was unstable, causing it to explode, creating the big bang that started our universe.

There is no beginning there is no end, there is no first time through the loop of creation/destruction and there is no last time through. This is both the first iteration and the nth iteration through the loop.

If this sounds strange it is. We live in a universe of physics, causality and linear time but these are emergent properties of our universe, at the point of singularity our universe does not exist, neither does it’s emergent property of time, so the end and the beginning of our physical universe could exist at the same point.

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Originally posted by christhecynic:

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Originally posted by citizen:
Our universe collapsed into a point of singularity, although the 'Big Crunch' took Billions of years to play out the final collapse took billionths of a second and the resulting singularity was unstable, causing it to explode, creating the big bang that started our universe.

There is no beginning there is no end, there is no first time through the loop of creation/destruction and there is no last time through. This is both the first iteration and the nth iteration through the loop.

If this sounds strange it is. We live in a universe of physics, causality and linear time but these are emergent properties of our universe, at the point of singularity our universe does not exist, neither does it’s emergent property of time, so the end and the beginning of our physical universe could exist at the same point.

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Maybe links like this are why some people hate me but... does that sound Hindu to anyone else? What little I know about Hinduism tells me that that sounds very Hindu.

Of course what I was taught could be wrong, my teachers were far from infalible.

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But they were not those who asserted that their claims were based on facts. You were. Besides, no one asked you to, "illustrate that God doesn't exist," and to even talk about doing it is to change the subject. You were instead asked to back up your personal claim that, "Atheists back up their claims with scientific facts, not blind faith."

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Originally posted by misbehaven:
First off, I never said their claims were based on facts, but rather their belief was derived from their faith.

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Secondly, this thread has largely been devouted to the discussion of whether or not God exists framed within a Christian vs. Atheist context, so I hardly think I was changing the subject;

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if you had read my comments within the full context of this ongoing discussion you would have realized that.

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But if your just looking to split hairs, then perhaps I should have said that Atheists back up their claims with scientific evidence.

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Now let me say something about scientific theory. Scientific theories are technically speaking theories; however, theories are grounded upon years of scientific evidence and are generally accepted in the scientific community as facts until proven otherwise. The Big Bang Theory, the Theory of Evolution, the Theory of Relativity etc.. Let's take the "Theory of Evolution". Yes it's a theory, but the work being done by geneticists everyday is solidly grounded in the Theory of Evolution. Furthermore, this "theory" is overwhelmingly supported by the scientific community as a fact.

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That said, some evidence for my belief that God doesn't exist: The Big Bang Theory and the The Theory of Evolution to name a couple.

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When these are juxtaposed against the creation myths of any religion, I think science does a more than adequate job of disproving them.

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Since religious texts are supposedly Divinely inspired, I think one could reasonably draw the conclusion that there's not a God,

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but rather humanity's need, at a particular point in time, to explain the existence of the world and how it came into creation.

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Additionally, I did say previously that, "science can't prove that God doesn't exist, but Christianity can't prove that he does. If it could, it wouldn't have to be taken on faith."

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My belief that God doesn't exist is, for me personally, based upon science even though I can't conclusively show that God isn't real.

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Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
Yeah and the whole "my eyes are black and I have bad dress sense"

Nope, not even Magdalena can tempt me to that!



We are The Forsaken - We aim to burn! and we don't need no stinkin levels!

one of the Forsaken TM

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Originally posted by kaneman:
Funny coming from a women with "Dirty laundry"

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Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:

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Originally posted by misbehaven:
[B And Atheists back up their claims with scientific facts, not blind faith.

B]

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state these facts please.

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