As I see today by zzetta13

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

As I see today

POSTED BY: ZZETTA13
UPDATED: Friday, August 11, 2006 21:14
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VIEWED: 1715
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Thursday, August 10, 2006 12:38 PM

I usually stay away from real world discussions or comments but today I'm feeling different so here goes.

I've been on this earth 50 years. I've seen a lot of things (good and bad) and know that a lot of it is caused by people (good and bad). There’s just no way to get around this.

The reason I am posting this now is because I feel that for some time now we've been fed this pill and have been told to swallow because it is good for us. We don't need to think. They will think for us. They will keep us safe. They will see to all our needs. Does this sound familiar (alliance)? If you question anything then you're just bucking the system. You're not a team player (I hate that term) and you're not with the program. Well I've been told that for over 30 years. I'm sure many of my fellow browncoats have as well. So who should I trust to decide what’s right for me? Although I haven't agreed with them I more or less have not bucked the system for a long time. Where has it gotten me? Or you? I can not say that now I'm living better then I did back when I was 25. I am not. They keep telling me to just do as I'm told and it will be alright. Well it ain't alright. I know what they're up to and it ain't good. The plum card is around my neck like a weight and I feel like ripping the labels off of the cans so I can get a few mystery meals. Sorry but I had to do a little rant and depressurize. I'm Ok.

Z

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Thursday, August 10, 2006 12:50 PM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.

Quote:
The plum card is around my neck like a weight and I feel like ripping the labels off of the cans so I can get a few mystery meals.

Spoken like a true Browncoat!

---

Go to http://richlabonte.net/tvvote/ and vote Firefly!

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Thursday, August 10, 2006 11:45 PM

FREMDFIRMA

"Is it bad that what he just said made perfect sense to me ?"

-Paraphrase of Mal, from Safe.

-Frem

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Friday, August 11, 2006 3:26 AM

DUKKATI

Yeah ... That "PILL" is choking me too.
No matter how much I try to wash it down.No matter how much I'm told "It will be taken care of. You shouldn't get involved cause you don't understand why things are the way they are".

I'm told by these individuals that they can solve certain problems by taxing me and by taking away certain freedoms. I'm told not to worry in time you will get used to it and all will be well.

I feel like sticking my finger down my throat and ...

...
Here's your f

g "PILL" back.Give it to some of these hairsplitting people, they need it more than I do.

Hairsplitting People ...hmm ...I feel maybe a new thread happening here...uummm...nope didn't take.

BTW
Good post zzetta13...your 50 and I'm 18.You have got me thinking and using gray matter long dulled by the "PILL".

I've been through the system.
It don't work.

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Friday, August 11, 2006 3:32 AM

PENGUIN

Quote:
Originally posted by yinyang:
Quote:
The plum card is around my neck like a weight and I feel like ripping the labels off of the cans so I can get a few mystery meals.

Spoken like a true Browncoat!

Amen!

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Friday, August 11, 2006 5:08 AM

ZZETTA13

YINYANG,FREMDFIRMA,DUKKATI and PENGUIN

Thank you for your post and support guys. I know many of my fellow browncoats feel the same way that I do and it may be one of the reasons we're attracted to Firefly. I want to make it clear that I do continue to have a very favorable outlook on life. I'm not one to be all "Gloom & Doom" all the time. I do fear for my childrens future though. They are both young adults and I don't see the world getting any better for them. Maybe it will.

DUKKATI you're 18! You have so much of your life ahead. Enjoy what you can. The world is still a fantastic place.

To explain a little about me. For the last 30 years I have worked for 2 fair sized companies. One I'm sure browncoats in the continental US would recognize if I named them. But I won't. Anyway these companies every couple years have layoffs and then rehirings. I've noticed the pattern. Each time they restructure and hire folk back it is always less ppl doing more work. They say it's to cut the fat but they've done reached the bone. Ppl are more stressed now and the pressure mounts every day. The place I work for now employes about 200 ppl and each year 20 to 30+ of newhires quit. The company tries to lay the blame on young adults being lazy but the local management at this place has at least 50 personnel. Why is that? I see these ppl out and about on my days off taking 2 hours lunch breaks in town while I know the ppl working at the factory have hardly the time to sit and eat 10 minutes. I could make a list a mile long but I'm not. Someone could say just get another job somewhere. But I hardly feel like starting at the bottom at 50.

My advise to the young folk of the world,find something that you enjoy doing and stick with it.You can have lots of $$ and still not be happy.Try to find something you can make a good living at that you feel you will still enjoy at 60. Well guess my preaching is over for today. Sorry this post got to be so long.

Z,out

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Friday, August 11, 2006 5:30 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Amen.

It's not any better in government either. Out of a total staff of 39, we lost 11 in the last six months and the management hasn't even started recruitment. At the same time our workload has multiplied by a factor of 15 in the past ten years. We've managed to improve efficiency by aggressive computerization, but we're way past that point. The system isn't breaking, it's broken.

Meanwhile, upper management skims the savings to our Governing Board of politicos who get to play with the money in the most unimagineably stupid ways possible.

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

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Friday, August 11, 2006 6:06 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by zzetta13:
They are both young adults and I don't see the world getting any better for them. Maybe it will.

You mentioned your disatisfaction with the progress of the last 25 years and now you are seeing a world no better for them then the one you spent your fifty years in.

Since 1956 you've seen America remain the wealthiest and most productive nation on earth. In that time we have stood strong against tyranny, pushed the bounds of science, created countless works of art and liturature, and created new mediums of culture and learning. You have seen the triumph of Democracy over Communism and witnessed the end of the Cold War and the begining of a new age of Information and Technology.

You have had a front row seat for the march of history and now you complain that history has chosen not to end at the time of your choosing. History teaches us that there will always be new dangers to challenge our security and resolve. The nuissances of 25 years ago have grown to the global threats of today. Such is life and you are right to fear for your children. But without challenge there can be no triumph. Without hills to climb there can be no rising above.

Your parents defeated the Nazis and the Depression, but left you the spectre of global armageddon. This was not their choice, it was thier role as players in the historical drama. Now you find yourself changing into that role. Have faith in yourself to play your new part well and have faith that you have prepared your children for their's. Impart to them your wisdom and hope they pass it on to their children for the challenges of the new world that has yet to be created.

Good luck.

H

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Friday, August 11, 2006 6:10 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Hero- are you practicing that stump speech again??

The challenge of today is for everyone- from the lowly farmer in Pakistan to the computer geek in San Jose- to stop bleeding into a system that's just taking them for all they're worth.

In the meantime, can you take your knowledge of law over to the "Gullible" thread? There's a question about privacy that could use your legal mind.

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

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Friday, August 11, 2006 7:24 AM

ZZETTA13

HERO first of all thanks for your post. I enjoy hearing from fellow browncoats that view issuse differently or from another angles. I also like hearing from those fellow "coats" that feel the same as myself.

Challenges. You are right to say that we all face them and that our relitives of the past have faced them as well and met them head on.Some ppl are challenged from the first breath they take to take another.

I just can not remember world governments looking upon their ppl as so much cattle like I get the feeling we are being viewed today. That's where the problems I see are not being answered properly. Not the ppl, the leadership.

I live on the gulf coast of Tx. Last year we had a very bad season with Atlantic storms. Hurricane Rita hit this area and did major damage. The good news,the ppl pulled together and the government stepped in and did their job. Things have gone well. Now the big ticket idem. It took 13 hours to get from Houston to Dallas.A trip that usually take 5 to 6. There are horror stories where it took some folk 30 hours to get out of harms way. My problem is with the oil companies. They made tons of money. Now where is any of it? These very same companies are crying and holding out their hands again. I don't get it. Well I do and that's what really chaps my backside. Mr,CEO is out on his yacht somewhere and doesn't give a ruttin romp. Why should he. He doesn't even pay for his fuel. I just don't see these guys as sitting around a table brainstorming to make things better for the public. They don't give a gorram. Just the way I see it.

Z

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Friday, August 11, 2006 9:52 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Hero- are you practicing that stump speech again??

I note for the record that I managed to write that entire post without once mentioning how liberals and the Democratic party are ruining America.

I mention it now because everything thats hard about the 21st Century has some liberal or another sitting around the last 25 years laying the groudwork.

Energy Crisis? No new powerplants, oil refineries, or pipelines.

Terrorism? "Naw, I'll take Monica over Osama she gives better..."

Korea? "Now promise not to build any nuclear weapons and we'll give you lots of money."

Browns? "Hey lets move to Baltimore."

I could go on, but what, what I ask has happened to the Democratic Party of my youth? Zell, Joe...help me out here.

H

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Friday, August 11, 2006 10:00 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by zzetta13:
I just can not remember world governments looking upon their ppl as so much cattle like I get the feeling we are being viewed today. That's where the problems I see are not being answered properly. Not the ppl, the leadership.

I appreciate the sentiment. I suggest you read a book on feudalism or maybe the pre-Revolution peasantry in Russia.

Perhaps your just feeling helpless and victimized because you don't want to take responsibility for your lot in life. I don't mean to be insulting, but I've heard similar sentiments as yours by folk coming before the court and blaming everyone and everything except themselves why they got decided that getting drunk and beating their wife was more of a priority then getting a job.

If your feelin all cattle-fied, go another way. But you have to work hard, pay your bills, and get along whether your with the herd or free rangin it. Thats not "the man", thats life.

H

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Friday, August 11, 2006 10:10 AM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.

Quote:
Since 1956 you've seen America remain the wealthiest and most productive nation on earth. In that time we have stood strong against tyranny, pushed the bounds of science, created countless works of art and liturature, and created new mediums of culture and learning. You have seen the triumph of Democracy over Communism and witnessed the end of the Cold War and the begining of a new age of Information and Technology.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on one point, Hero. Sure, at one time America did push the bounds of science; but, we are falling behind, partly due to restrictions on stem cell research. And, in my opinion, the fact that we're 'the wealthiest and most productive nation on earth' doesn't mean that we're necessarily good as a nation.

I'm iffy on the productivity thing, as well. Sure, at one time we may have been very productive; but, sending jobs overseas and almost always finding those 'Made in China' stickers makes me wonder how productive Americans actual are, when compared to other countries with piss-poor working conditions. and no minimum wage. And, again, not all productivity is good productivity.

---

Go to http://richlabonte.net/tvvote/ and vote Firefly!

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Friday, August 11, 2006 10:24 AM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.

Quote:
I mention it now because everything thats hard about the 21st Century has some liberal or another sitting around the last 25 years laying the groudwork.

Yes; and the conservatives were all hauling ass for the better good. Right.

---

Go to http://richlabonte.net/tvvote/ and vote Firefly!

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Friday, August 11, 2006 10:38 AM

ZZETTA13

"Perhaps your just feeling helpless and victimized because you don't want to take responsibility for your lot in life. I don't mean to be insulting, but I've heard similar sentiments as yours by folk coming before the court and blaming everyone and everything except themselves why they got decided that getting drunk and beating their wife was more of a priority then getting a job.

If your feelin all cattle-fied, go another way. But you have to work hard, pay your bills, and get along whether your with the herd or free rangin it. Thats not "the man", thats life."

First of all I'm not insulted and I don't feel all vicimized and think my lot in life is a tragedy. My lot in life is fine and I hardly blame everyone for what happens in my life. Yes I agree that things could be different but they are not.

I think that what I've been saying all along and what everyone else that has posted here but you is that they feel the powers that be could do better. Are the other folk that have posted here victims too? Do you think they would rather stay home and beat their wives and children (which I have never done so watch it) and complain about jobs they don't have?

let me get this strait. You are the only one that has posted on this thread that isn't lazy and feels you are in the position you are in because of hard work and the rest of us shouldn't want better nomatter what kind of shape the world is in. I'm trying to see if your "solve all" means if I work hard, keep quiet and say nothing about the things I feel could be better for myself and everyone, well that's the way to go?

If your life and work life are fine then I am happy for you. There are about 5 or 6 other folk that have posted on this thread that say things could be better. Course maybe they should just change their lot in life and stop claiming to be victims. It is their own fault you know.

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Friday, August 11, 2006 10:38 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Quote:
The reason I am posting this now is because I feel that for some time now we've been fed this pill and have been told to swallow because it is good for us. We don't need to think. They will think for us. They will keep us safe. They will see to all our needs. Does this sound familiar (alliance)? If you question anything then you're just bucking the system. You're not a team player (I hate that term) and you're not a team player . Well I've been told that for over 30 years.

I guess I don't understand the question. So to help clarify it, I'm hoping you can provide some sepcific examples where you felt you were (for example):

fed this pill and been told to swallow
don't need to think
not a team player, not with the program

I can think of some examples for myself, I'm just not sure if they are the same as yours.

Thanks.

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Friday, August 11, 2006 11:18 AM

ZZETTA13

RUE first example of the "pill" question

Go put gas in your car. I don't know anyone that is happy with fuel prices.Is the answer to stop driving my car? I don't know what the answer is. But just because I don't know the answer doesn't mean I have to stay quiet about it.

Another one a little closer to home.fox cancels FF with no interest in bringing the show back. Should we all accept it. Just forget the show. Just swallow the pill and be glad to have what we have. If that would have been the case then there would have been no Serenity. I can see from the post on the forum that ppl understand the original reason the show was canceled. But things have changed.

Not a team player.By this I mean that my employer does not want to hear anything negative about their work methods. Which includes safety.

With me not feeling the same means I (or any of my coworkers that feel the same) don't fit into the program.I haven't had an injury in a long time. I am responsible to see that that continues. But the company should take some responsibility also.

Those are just a couple of examples.If others are fine with those rules,Well that's for them to think about. Guess that's why I, as well as others on the board feel like browncoats.

Z

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Friday, August 11, 2006 11:48 AM

HKCAVALIER

I have a book group that meets at my house every Thursday. This week we were discussing Stendhal's The Red and the Black. We were talking about how the fact that we give governments the power to control our lives has been forgotten and lost to the modern imagination; how modern folks have lost contact with the possibility of taking it back.

We talked about the anecdote about Napoleon meeting the Fifth Regiment on the road. The Fifth had been sent to bring Napoleon in. So they meet on the road and Napoleon simply walks out to them and begins talking, y'know, something like, "You know me. We have faught side by side, etc." (only cooler, 'cause it was in french) and convinces them to march on Paris. When the rest of the army hears about it they join in.

So the soldiers in this story were still aware of their personal power, their personal political power. And they made decisions which directly influenced history and it got me thinking.

Back then, guns weren't all that accurate. A man could shoot you from ten paces and miss through no fault of his own. Deadly force, back then, could be thwarted by luck and skill and intent. The individual had a chance.

But nowadays, guns are far more deadly and far more forceful. Your chances of missing with an AK is pretty slim if you have the slightest clue. So the wiggle room for the modern individual when faced with governmental force to say, "Maybe I can get out of this" is greatly reduced. The Holocaust saw the introduction of factory-like productivity in the realm of governmental force and the destruction of the individual.

It's pretty interesting in this context to note that Firefly moves us backward toward the 19th century to tell its tale of individualism and a real struggle for freedom and autonomy. Has the modern state overwhelmed the individual's power to regain his or her power? Was the Wild West the last gasp of individual freedom from state control and domination?

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Friday, August 11, 2006 2:11 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Thank you both for your input.

Trying to read between the lines, would I be wrong to say these issues are worse under Bush than under Clinton?

The reason why I'm asking is because (I think) if the machine we call society is going along in a direction you're comfortable with, then it wouldn't cause a sense of confinement. It's only when things are happening that you object to, but can't ignore, change, or escape, that you start to feel trapped, frustrated, angry, alienated.

So yes, I feel that today is not going well. It's the diminshed expectations we are told we have to accept. The loss of real wages, loss of natural spaces, loss of choices, loss of hope. And it's not about the GWOT, or even Iraq. It's that no matter what I feel, say and do, the system rolls along right over me with no notice.

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Friday, August 11, 2006 5:00 PM

DREAMTROVE

Sorry to stick in my own two sense here, but I need to argue. Some real key points.

1. Don't be fooled that Clinton is the opposition to Bush. Bush is Clinton, Clinton is Bush. Ben is Glory.
2. Clinton was smarter than Bush, so he didn't put cameras on his evil, but it was just as evil. You were more content because you didn't know as much about the evil.
3. The 1995 FISA rewrite was actually Clinton breaking the law, and democrats reinventing the law to catch up to him, much like the republicans tries to do for Bush and failed.
4. All those million people clinton killed failed to make the news, because the media loved him, because he played their game and didn't arrest them and stuff. Bush OTOH is a moron.
5. Really, one isn't better than the other in any category, but Bush does play the fear ticket more, he has to, because he has no charm. Clinton could charm, he was devil in [and out of] blue jeans. Bush is Cthulu. Or maybe Cheney is, but you get the point.

Only reason I'm saying this is: People have a tendency not to look under the desk of their own people to see what they're up to [and I wouldn't monica's still down there :)] But seriously, all these jesus jumpers with their non-thinking attitude about Bush is just that, they don't want to question their own side. We won, yay us. If we don't accept that, we haven't won.

So while folks over on this side were counting the civilian casualties of Clinton's endless (5?) wars [for oil], most everyone on the left was doing the naivete thing. We say hey, he spending your money on bombing and killing and stripping your civil liberty, and attacking americans and hey he's breaking down the usa and selling off pieces to halliburton cheney and places like communist china dubia and yo guys wake up... and the dems were like ladida, yay us, we're in charge... for the same reason. They didn't want to question their own victory.

But Clinton wasn't your guy, he was a plant for the neothugs. As is Bush, he's not our guy, he's a plant for the neothugs. and neocons aren't conservative, and neolibs aren't liberal, they're all just neothugs, pretending to be liberals, pretending to be conservatives.

Is Bush worse than Clinton from an American civil rights perspective? Sure. But he's not doing more damage. He's worse because he comes second, so he has Clinton's evil, plus his own. If he had been first, Clinton would have been worse, because he would have Bush policies, plus his own.

I suspect team evil overall is looking to switch back to democrat in '08 with their mascot, Hillary.

ps. hillary was on the watergate prosecution team. That and the Scoop Jackson '72 democratic primary are the two groups that you most often find a neothug of either party associated with.

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Friday, August 11, 2006 7:58 PM

ANTIMASON

all i can say is that i agree! i mean once again...if our last 2 "opposing" presidential candidates were both skull and bones members, whats that tell you?...if nothing else that maybe you should look into the background of this organization?

http://www.prisonplanet.tv/articles/august2004/082804dictatorspreview.
htm

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Friday, August 11, 2006 9:14 PM

JOSSISAGOD

No, it ain't bad that what he said made perfect sense. 'Cause ZZETTA's more than a little right!

There's no one can tell me what is right for me but me and my parents!

To Hero: I WILL take Monica over Osama, ANY DAY! also, to your "What happened to the Democratic Party of [your] youth?" I'll ask, What happend to the Republican party of one hundred years ago, my point is this, the politicians on BOTH sides have become more obsessed with where they can get the most money to support their agendas than actually HAVING worthwhile agendas to begin with! I'm too tired right now to give examples, but you can probably think of the places where BOTH political parties went wrong and what they did right.

JOSSIS(Most Definitely)AGOD

Self appointed Forsaken! Been on the list for a while now!

98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature.
"Look at me, I'm STUPID!" The Doctor.

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