What if God wasn't what you thought God was? by HKCavalier

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

What if God wasn't what you thought God was?

POSTED BY: HKCAVALIER
UPDATED: Sunday, August 13, 2006 17:45
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VIEWED: 2415
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Friday, August 11, 2006 10:31 AM

Psychologically, developmentally, children have gods: their parents. A child sees in a parent a perfect ruler of reality; a loving, infalible higher power. If such a "god" punishes the child, the child will naturally internalize the punishment and assume that it was deserved, that the "god" is "rightious." Even if such a parent merely hurts the child out of negligence, the child will naturally construe it as a "just punishment" for some imagined "sin."

This kind of identification with the parent at all costs is a natural survival mechanism; it is apparently hardwired into all human children. Of course any parent can tell you that for some months around the age of 2 and for several years in puberty (at the very least), it is natural for a child to "call b.s." on all that.

"You're not the boss of me!"

"I hate you!"

"I wish I'd never been born!"

"I wish I was adopted!"

This kind of outburst is normal and necessary for a the child to mature and fully individuate. If a child does not go through these "rebelious phases," it's likely to create all kinds of trouble down the line.

Quite apart from the issue of whether God ultimately exists or not, there's an argument to be made here that people's belief in God is often reflective of an immature relationship to reality. Many folks, it would seem, when faced with the ultimate falibility and frailty of their real parents still feel the need for a perfect loving caretaker and so project these needs onto God.

In some ways God serves their purposes much better than a parent ever could, because real flesh and blood parents will eventually disappoint; while the special neither-here-nor-there nature of God guarentees that their projection of perfection will never be falsified. As long as God is the perfect father of a perfect dead guy, who nonetheless follows us around unseen and loves us in ways we can never prove to anyone, we, like happy infants, can assume all misfortune is our own doing and all pleasure is a gift from the Almighty. Some Christians, for instance, apparently look at the people dying by the tens of thousands in the Middle East and rejoice in God's Providence, seeing in the suffering of others a sign that Jesus will soon return to us. Obviously, a belief in God can be a powerful tool to comfort the mind when faced with senseless atrocity.

So, our unresolved infantile needs can be projected onto the universe and foster a belief in a loving God. And adolescent beliefs can be projected onto the universe and foster an aggressive atheism. But developmentally, many people do manage to reach psychological maturity and autonomy; many of us come to understand our parents as friends and as equals, helpers along the way. In my own experience, the majority of theists I have known who went through a thorough atheistic phase in their lives have been a good deal more sensible and responsible in their beliefs than the majority of belly-button Christians I've had to deal with. Just as a belief in the infalibility of authority seems hardwired and developmentally necessary, so questioning that authority and moving beyond it is necessary for us to become fully functioning adults.

Perhaps one day, we as a race will come to an understanding of the Earth and the Universe not as a Mother from whom we may take and take and take until she's used up ("Earth?" "Used up?" Where have I heard that before?), or a cold and neglegent absentee father whom we must investigate and expose, but as friends and helpers along the way who deserve our respect and protection.

Thoughts?

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Friday, August 11, 2006 10:37 AM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.

Wow, I like that. I like that a lot. Good job, HK!

---

Go to http://richlabonte.net/tvvote/ and vote Firefly!

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Friday, August 11, 2006 10:51 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

If there was (a) god(s), I would hope for special-ness. But what if god(s) was(ere) (a) small, malicious, petty-minded ugly little bug(s).

EEEeeewwwwww ... gross.

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Friday, August 11, 2006 10:56 AM

CITIZEN

What if god was a concious universe that is trying to understand itself.

Babel-on till 5 CitizenIsDellen

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Friday, August 11, 2006 11:00 AM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.

What if God was Jello? I mean, come on - it jiggles, but it doesn't fall apart. That's a miracle.

---

Go to http://richlabonte.net/tvvote/ and vote Firefly!

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Friday, August 11, 2006 11:14 AM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by yinyang:
What if God was Jello? I mean, come on - it jiggles, but it doesn't fall apart. That's a miracle.

Gods belly would wobble like a bowl full of jelly.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Friday, August 11, 2006 12:17 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:

So, our unresolved infantile needs can be projected onto the universe and foster a belief in a loving God. And adolescent beliefs can be projected onto the universe and foster an aggressive atheism.

When I was young I cursed the Devil for his evil.
When I was a little older, I cursed God for letting bad things happen.
When I saw Star Trek's first season I discovered morals and their applications. And realized God could not be quantified or explained quite so easily as some would have us believe.

Today I am a modified Buddhist.

American Gigalo Chrisisall

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Friday, August 11, 2006 7:06 PM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by yinyang:
Good job, HK!

HK got wisdom.

I used to be a fundie. (Mind you, everyone said I was the most open-minded fundie they knew, but there I was, praising God with my arms in the air and speaking in tongues.) But looking back, I was attracted to that crowd because they helped me pull through some difficult times. I have to be grateful for that.

Anyway, right around the end of graduate school, I started seriously questioning some tenets of the faith--like why do only Christians get to go to heaven? I got kicked out, but with a boot. They said I was "gangrene in the body of Christ and had to be cut off before I infected the rest of the body." Yeah, those exact words.

So for a while I was rebellious gangrene, and I kinda stopped talking to God for a while. I still believed, but I wasn't sure in what.

Recently, I've been finding my faith again. Nothing like before, but faith nonetheless.

And if it turns out that God is non-existent or a tiny purple Venusian shaped like an armadillo, so what? We believed what we needed to believe to pull through what we needed to pull through. It doesn't matter that Jayne didn't really love the mudders. Believing gave them a reason to have hope. And hope gave them a reason to get up in the morning. Why crap on hope, just because it isn't true?

Speaking of crap, this has nothing to do with HK's post. I be just rambling...

-------
"Maybe she's a lazy hooker. They can't all have hearts of gold and good work ethics." -- Jaye in Wonderfalls

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Sunday, August 13, 2006 10:21 AM

DUKKATI

If God wasn't what I thought He was...I guess I would believe something else.

I've been through the system.
It dont work.

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Sunday, August 13, 2006 10:29 AM

WASHSYOUNGERSEXIERBR

Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges

This is the fourth god thread thats been posted

Religion is REALLY starting to great on me

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Sunday, August 13, 2006 1:28 PM

DREAMTROVE

Wash, that's grate.

This is the best God thread, so it should stay.

Bump.

Generally speaking, I'm with Viggo who says "God is evil, just read his book and see" which is where I got it from, but it's true. I mean sure, it makes no nevermind if God is really the flying spaghetti monster, but the book is important.

Our nation, the USA, my nation anyway, is based on a nebullous group we call "the founding fathers" which is particularly vague. Someone's founding father may be someone else's benedict arnold. But, as vague as it is, whatever the founding fathers said, that, theoretically, would be america. Now what if the founding fathers had been a bunch of axe murderers? Then america would be something different. (Australia?)

So it's important who you are using as a canon. If Ben Franklin is top dog, america becomes a republic, if it's george washington, it's a fortress, (if it's andrew jackson, it's a white's only club?)

You catch my drift, but generally speaking, america can do okay if it sticks to the founding fathers, because for the most part, they had good ideas on how to run a country.

Now take the book of God. Yhwh. It's full of some strange stuff, a few fairy tales, some history, and a few parabels (David actually hired assassins to kill goliath because he was political competition, but told his men that goliath was a crime against god because of his genetic deformity: he was 8'4")

But a lot of what the bible is full of is worship me, kill those that don't, don't do anything that gives you pleasure because you're only pleasure is me, i created everything, no i don't have proof, don't ask questions, punish the question askers, punish everyone, torture, maim, kill, destroy, rape the earth, kill everyone, genocide is good, kill the animals too, someday I'll come back and kill you all! Now do what I say... come on, it's a test. Paradise awaits, you want paradise don't you? Lie? why would I lie? You know you want it, where's the greed, you think about you, and me, and come on, oh, there's a good boy, go fetch, get me some more worshippers. Good dog, bring those sheep home.

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Sunday, August 13, 2006 3:56 PM

FUTUREMRSFILLION

What if God was one of us?
Just a slob like one of us?
Just a stranger on the bus, trying to make his way home.
Like a holy rolling stone.

Sorry, that song popped in my head and now it won't leave. Thought I would spread the bug!

We are The Forsaken - We aim to burn! and we don't need no stinkin levels!

one of the Forsaken TM

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Sunday, August 13, 2006 4:01 PM

DREAMTROVE

okay, you're viral marketing paid off. I took a look at the site. nifty idea. i like. I don't have time for games like this, but I like the idea. how much of the world is defined? how seriously does the mod develop the dynamics of the situation?

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Sunday, August 13, 2006 4:35 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Agnostic that I am, this is one of my favorite songs:

Must of been mid afternoon
I could tell by how far the child's shadow stretched out and
He walked with a purpose
In his sneakers, down the street
He had, many questions
Like children often do
He said,
Tell me all your thoughts on God?
Tell me am I very far?

Must of been late afternoon
On our way the sun broke free of the clouds
We count only blue cars
Skip the cracks, in the street
And ask many questions
Like children often do
We said,
Tell me all your thoughts on God?
'Cause I would really like to meet her.
And ask her why we're who we are.
Tell me all your thoughts on God,
Cause I am on my way to see her.
So tell me am I very far -
Am I very far now?

Its getting cold picked up the pace
How our shoes make hard noises in this place
Our clothes are stained
We pass many, cross eyed people
And ask many questions
Like children often do

Tell me all your thoughts on God?
'Cause I would really like to meet her.
And ask her why we're who we are.
Tell me all your thoughts on God?
'Cause I am on my way to see her.
So tell me am I very far?
Am I very far now
Am I very far now
Am I very far now

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Sunday, August 13, 2006 5:45 PM

ERIC

Interesting question, but I think there's no "what if" about it. As they say, "the ways of the Lord passeth all understanding." Assuming God exists, he/she/it cannot be what one thought, because I think humans lack the capacity to comprehend the full meaning. Thus, all religions are wrong in their depiction of the nature of God. I've always liked that "in a mirror, darkly" thing, because it describes perfectly the mode of our understanding of the universe. If I may be so bold as to speak for scientists, we constantly have our faces rubbed in the fact that we know next to nothing about the universe, and can only come up with the most rough approximations that serve our needs at the time. This is the root of all science, in fact- acknowledge ignorance, and then constantly work toward the unattainable goal of understanding. If, as Citizen noted the Minbari say, God is the universe trying to understand itself, then, in an infinite universe, whatever belief we have about the nature of God cannot be anything except infinitely wrong. Disheartening, perhaps, but it takes the pressure off

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