If you speak Arabic, you're a terrorist. by citizen

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If you speak Arabic, you're a terrorist.

POSTED BY: CITIZEN
UPDATED: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 13:13
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Monday, August 21, 2006 6:10 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
If you had to choose between Xenophobia and the threat of getting blown up, which would you pick?

So all brown people are trying to kill us and every brown person must be treated with fear.

Quote:
Once someone has decided to get on a plane with a bomb, diplomacy becomes a secondary issue to preventing the explosion, I think.

Or going on a plane committing the serious crime of traveling while Asian, it would seem.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Monday, August 21, 2006 6:17 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Well, what I get out of the discussion is that we value airport security... just not enough to spend more money on it, or inconvenience passengers or to interfere with airline profits.

Situations that seem immutable are often choices or assumptions that we've made further upstream. We can sometimes solve problems more effectively if we open our scope of options, rather than narrowing them (as Finn does). So looking at airport security for example, why doesn't the Federal government simply require searching each passenger? Take too much resources? Kill the airline industry? Well then- re-regulate the industry. If you don't want to do that, kick in more Federal bucks. That would increase the deficit? Then stop reducing taxes. Pull out of Iraq. Eliminate $100 billion of porkbarrel spending. This problem really is better solved without hysteria.

Narrowed options is a sign of fear. "Awfulizing" (dreaming up the most horrible result possible) is a sign of fear.

People who want us to think of only one option- people like Finn or Bush- are either living in fear or trying to induce fear in others, or both. (Frightened people are often convinced that they are the only ones who "really" know what's going on. Everyone else is living in denial as far as they're concerned.)

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

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Monday, August 21, 2006 8:09 AM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Well, around that time a radio show had folks believing we were being attacked by Mars. Peeps were a little wackier back then, I think.

They didn't have enough experience with emergent technology and mass media to know you can't believe everything coming over the airwaves. Nowadays, people are more skeptical, given their abundant exposure to media entertainment and special effects.

But less wacky? I dunno. I see people believing government despite all evidence to the contrary, and believing conspiracy radio talk show hosts despite all evidence to the contrary. When you take mass media outside the fictional realm, people seem as gullible as ever.

If you're saying internment camps can't happen anymore, I am not so sure. I'd like to believe they can't happen. But then I see all these posts by relatively well educated people and seemingly reasonable people defending racial profiling and touting the imminent dangers of Islamofascist hordes. That's after one attack that I find dubiously attributed to Al-Qaeda. Internment camps may not happen again, but kicking innocent people off planes is a step in the same direction.

What do you think will happen if another major attack occurs?

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

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Monday, August 21, 2006 8:42 AM

DEEPGIRL187

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
What do you think will happen if another major attack occurs?

1984.

**************************************************

"Oooh, synchronizers!"

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Monday, August 21, 2006 8:50 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:

What do you think will happen if another major attack occurs?

More psuedo-cons in charge, more war, dwindling quality of life, recession, repression.
Basically Dark Angel without the angel.

Gotta blaze Chrisisall

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Monday, August 21, 2006 8:52 AM

NVGHOSTRIDER

So I skipped all the discussion in favor of incessant laughing.
Thats F-ing hilarious!

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Monday, August 21, 2006 12:27 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
So all brown people are trying to kill us and every brown person must be treated with fear.

If you want to believe that racist crap, you go right ahead, but don’t expect me to agree to it.

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Or going on a plane committing the serious crime of traveling while Asian, it would seem.

If you say so.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Monday, August 21, 2006 12:51 PM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
If you want to believe that racist crap, you go right ahead, but don’t expect me to agree to it.

You're question was Xenophobia or being blown up. Either treat everyone who looks Asian as a terrorist or be blown up. How am I misconstruing your statements exactly?

Quote:
If you say so.

You are defending taking people of a plane merely for looking Asian, it's your say so, not mine.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Monday, August 21, 2006 1:02 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Don't ask me ridiculously stupid questions in the hope I'll answer them with an affirmative and back up your defence of racism then (I'm not calling you racist, but you are defending a racist attitude)....You are defending taking people of a plane merely for looking asian, it's your say so, not mine.

When faced with this kind of distortion some people might collapse in a fit and say:

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
... I'm not going to lie down and take you painting me as this or that ...

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Monday, August 21, 2006 1:14 PM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
When faced with this kind of distortion some people might collapse in a fit and say:

At least you now admit you were trying to paint me as a terrorist supporter.

Obviously there is nothing that can be said to you which is not going to be construde as an insult.

And lets get one thing straight, assuming someone is a terrorist because they look muslim is racist, you're supporting that position, you have your reasons I'm sure, and I doubt those are racist (hey look I'm making it clear I'm not saying you're racist, which is more than you did for me when I made that other quote).

So maybe if I ask the question again you'll stop the fit and answer it:
How is the question "Xenophobia or be blown up?" not implying we should treat anyone different as a terrorist?

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Monday, August 21, 2006 1:30 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
You're comparing me not calling you a racist with you calling me a terrorist supporter. What do you want? Do you want me to call you a racist?

You should have asked that before you implied that I'm racist, and I have never called you a terrorist supporter.

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
And lets get one thing straight, assuming someone is a terrorist because they look muslim is racist, you're supporting that position, you have your reasons I'm sure, and I doubt those are racist .

So you should assume they are a terrorist because they are an old lady? Is it racist to suspect that white men might have been behind the bombing of a black church?

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
How is the question "Xenophobia or be blown up?" not implying we should treat anyone different as a terrorist?

Because it’s not implying what should happen at all.

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Monday, August 21, 2006 1:38 PM

NVGHOSTRIDER

I just don't get why no one gets Citizen. He's probably the funniest F'er on the entire board.
But then again I rarely found Seifeld funny. Seinfeld SUCKED!!!

As for the brown people thing, I still can't stop giggling. Having a menacing skin tone all I can say is this, Kiss my light brown ass. All folks who have become too scared of their own F-ing shadow and are ignorant enough to persue such ill informed persuits can wallow in their fear. I may even stir up a small ruckus the next time I fly, just to see the looks on their sheepish faces. Should brush up on the Arabic just to see how many wet spots materialize.

Thanks Citizen for the chance to tell the cowards of the world to pucker up. I rarely get the chance to do so.

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Monday, August 21, 2006 1:43 PM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
You should have asked that before called me a racist, and I have never called you a terrorist supporter.

I never said you were a racist. I categorically said you were not.

And no, you're right you merely implied I was a terrorist supporter.

Quote:
So you should assume they are a terrorist because they are an old lady?

I don't think we should assume anyone’s a terrorist, assumption of terrorism on no evidence is what you are defending, not me.

Quote:
Is it racist to suspect that white men might have been behind the bombing of a black church?

If the only things known is that it's a church and black people go there, yes it is.

Is it racist to arrest a white guy for walking past a black church because they might bomb it because they're white and it's a black church?

Quote:
Because it’s not implying what should happen at all.

Your question: either be a xenophobe or be blown up. This is a clear implication that everyone who's different should be treated as a terrorist or you will be blown up.

If that is not what you intended why did you ask the question?

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Monday, August 21, 2006 1:45 PM

MISBEHAVEN

Finn ol' buddy, I see you're still trying to make your case for racial profiling. I think it's time to just concede defeat, or maybe just "crawl away like a bitty, little punk." Just joking.

But seriously, there's no rational defense for racial profiling. Your proposal is going to exacerbate the tensions that already exist, and simultaneoulsy alienate the people we need to help us the most. Don't let fear be a reason for sacrificing the liberties of others, because next time it may be your liberties that are taken.

"The only thing that will redeem mankind is cooperation."
-Bertrand Russell

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Monday, August 21, 2006 1:58 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
And no, you're right you merely implied I was a terrorist supporter.

I didn’t even imply that you were a terrorist supporter. I’ve never used the term ‘terrorist supporter’ in reference to you, so this is purely your imagination, and nothing else.

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
I don't think we should assume anyone’s a terrorist, assumption of terrorism on no evidence is what you are defending, not me.

Then you believe we should get rid of all airport screening?

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
If the only things known is that it's a church and black people go there, yes it is.

And in the case where the bombed black church is in a series of church burnings that the KKK members were known to have committed?

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Is it racist to arrest a white guy for walking past a black church because they might bomb it because they're white and it's a black church?

No one is talking about arresting anyone.

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Your question: either be a xenophobe or be blown up. This is a clear implication that everyone who's different should be treated as a terrorist or you will be blown up.

It doesn’t imply what should happen at all. And I didn’t intend it to.

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Monday, August 21, 2006 2:12 PM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Then you believe we should get rid of all airport screening?

Now you've taken a leap off the deep end. Airport screening doesn't assume everyone going to the airport is a terrorist. It's also metted out evenly to all comers, not given only to those with a certain ethnic look, so really you comparing airport security with assuming someones a terrorist because they look a bit like a muslim is laughable.

Quote:
No one is talking about arresting anyone.

You do realise what thread your on, right? My example is infinatly more pertinent to the issue we are discussing than yours. Namely that people were assumed to be terrorists cause they looked a bit muslim.

Quote:
And in the case where the bombed black church is in a series of church burnings that the KKK members were known to have committed?

Well I could cop out here like you did and say "we ain't talking about black churches" but I actually can answer this

.

You suspect that the KKK had something to do with it. What you don't do is what you suggest, suspect every white guy of being a mad church bomber.

Quote:
It doesn’t imply what should happen at all. And I didn’t intend it to.

I see, so you weren't trying to get me to endorse your side of the argument by answering 'xenophobia' to your question. You didn't ask a question that gives only two choices: either get blown up or distrust anyone who's different. Because It sure looks like you did.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Monday, August 21, 2006 2:21 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Quote:
Originally posted by misbehaven:
Finn ol' buddy, I see you're still trying to make your case for racial profiling. I think it's time to just concede defeat, or maybe just "crawl away like a bitty, little punk." Just joking. But seriously, there's no rational defense for racial profiling. Your proposal is going to exacerbate the tensions that already exist, and simultaneoulsy alienate the people we need to help us the most. Don't let fear be a reason for sacrificing the liberties of others, because next time it may be your liberties that are taken.

That’s kind of a mischaracterization, isn’t? I never used the term “racial profiling.” What I did say was:

Quote:
I suggest that we consider evaluating potential suspects based on a broad spectrum of characteristics including behavior. And yes, we should more closely examine Muslim passengers then old women.

Note that I didn’t refer to race at all. Nor did I say that all Muslims were terrorists. What I said and do think, and what is quite defensible, is that a Muslim from Saudi Arabia (for instance) is more likely to be a terrorist against American interests then an old women from Vermont. So it simply makes rational sense that if you wish to prevent a terrorist attack against American interests you should pay more attention to a Muslim from Saudi Arabia then an old women from Vermont. That’s just common sense, not racism. But I never made the claim that race or even religion should be the backbone of intercepting would-be terrorists. I said “a broad spectrum of characteristics including behavior” instead of random methodology, which is quite commonly employed by law enforcement everywhere else, except airport screening.

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Monday, August 21, 2006 2:30 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Now you've taken a leap off the deep end. Airport screening doesn't assume everyone going to the airport is a terrorist. It's also metted out evenly to all comers, not given only to those with a certain ethnic look, so really you comparing airport security with assuming someones a terrorist because they look a bit like a muslim is laughable.

As opposed to assuming a random sample are terrorists.

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
You do realise what thread your on, right? My example is infinatly more pertinent to the issue we are discussing than yours. Namely that people were assumed to be terrorists cause they looked a bit muslim.

You do know that no one is arrested for being screened at the airport, right?

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
You suspect that the KKK had something to do with it. What you don't do is what you suggest, suspect every white guy of being a mad church bomber.

How many black people are there in the KKK? If you suspect the KKK, does it make sense to suspect a random sample of the population (which is likely to include African-Americans), or rather to limit the sample by assuming that KKK member will be white?

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
I see, so you weren't trying to get me to endorse your side of the argument by answering 'xenophobia' to your question. You didn't ask a question that gives only two choices: either get blown up or distrust anyone who's different. Because It sure looks like you did.

I asked a question that goes to the state of mind of people who might suspect that someone is a terrorist based on their choice of language.

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Monday, August 21, 2006 2:35 PM

MISBEHAVEN

I thought that you were implying we should screen people based, at least in part, on ethnicity, nationality, and religion. Oh wait, you did: "And yes we should more closely examine Muslim passengers than old women." But if I'm reading this the wrong way, then I apologize. Nevertheless, I still think you could use a break from this thread. Try my crop circles thread. It's bound to be more fun than debating this ad nauseam.

"The only thing that will redeem mankind is cooperation."
-Bertrand Russell

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Monday, August 21, 2006 3:41 PM

GOAT

DEEPGIRL187:
Exactly. I think that 1984 is one of the scarier books I have ever read just becuase I think thats the direction we're headed and it scares me

I wish I had it in digital form, but I cut out a comic from a school newspaper that was talking about racial profiling shortly after 9/11. It starts off with FDR talking about how the Japanese people are a danger to our nation and for our own safety, they would be relocated to internment camps. The last frame was W saying "What he said, except for the towlheads".

There exist dogs who bite people and of those dogs a few of them have rabies. Therefore, for the protection of my fellow citizens I propose that all dogs that aren't muzzled and leashed at all times or any dog that barks or grawls for any reason be confiscated by animal control for confinement and/or euthanization. However, since everyone knows that cats don't bite or attack people ever, they will be allowed to go about their business.

*** No, I'm not serious about the dog thing. Just trying to make a point ***

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Tuesday, August 22, 2006 2:36 AM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn Mac Cuhmal:
As opposed to assuming a random sample are terrorists.

You assume people are terrorists all you want, I'll just live my life if it's all the same to you thanks.

Quote:
You do know that no one is arrested for being screened at the airport, right?

All you had to say was no, you don't know what this thread was about.

Let me enlighten you: Two men were removed from a plane and questioned by Spanish police because the passengers refused to fly with people who looked Muslim.

So a question that is more pertinent to the thread would be:
Is it racist to drag a White guy off the street and question him because he walked past a black church?

Maybe we can learn from the past? How about we have special train’s planes and busses for Muslims only? Then we don't have to worry about all those Muslim terrorists blowing us up because they'll just be blowing up each other. I'm sure I've heard this idea before, just can't seem to put my finger on it...

Quote:
How many black people are there in the KKK? If you suspect the KKK, does it make sense to suspect a random sample of the population (which is likely to include African-Americans), or rather to limit the sample by assuming that KKK member will be white?

Apparently to you it makes more sense to suspect every white person in the world is a member of the KKK. Good luck with that.

Quote:
I asked a question that goes to the state of mind of people who might suspect that someone is a terrorist based on their choice of language.

The Nazis suspected the Jews were trying to take over the world, better Xenophobia than let the Jewish conspiracy win?

What I mean is I fail to see how you could even think the question supports your position if that was your purpose.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Tuesday, August 22, 2006 5:33 AM

DEEPGIRL187

Quote:
Originally posted by nvghostrider:
As for the brown people thing, I still can't stop giggling. Having a menacing skin tone all I can say is this, Kiss my light brown ass.

Having a medium-brown skin tone myself, I second that motion.

**************************************************

"Oooh, synchronizers!"

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Tuesday, August 22, 2006 1:13 PM

ANTIMASON

im sure this was mentioned elsewhere...but under the Patriot act, violating ANY state or federal law vaguely defines someone as a terrorist; this is in anticipation for the day that FEMA and Homeland Security start throwing dissenting Americans into concentration camps

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