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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
Belorussia, Belarusian news...
Monday, May 24, 2021 4:10 AM
JAYNEZTOWN
Thursday, May 27, 2021 1:50 PM
SIGNYM
I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.
Quote: By The Book - What Really Happened With The Ryanair Flight In Belarus We yesterday looked at the record of Roman Protasevich, the western financed neo-nazi arrested on Sunday in Belarus. Another still open issue is how the incident developed. Protasevich was arrested after a plane he was flying on from Greece to Lithuania was diverted to Minsk due to a bomb threat. There had been an open warrant of arrest against Protasevich which was enforced as he entered the country. NEXTA, the regime change organization in Poland where Protasevich had previously worked to organize a coup in Belarus, had doxxed policemen in Belarus and thereby endangered their families. The Aviation Department of the Belorussian Ministry for Transport and Communication has published its official report of the incident. It is written in Russian and English language (scroll down for the English version). The report includes what seems to be the full transcript of the radio traffic between the plane and the air traffic control. The report and the transcript debunk a number of false claims made in the 'western' reporting on the issue. The main facts: Department of Aviation in accordance with the requirements of Standards 5.2.5 and 5.3.1 of Annex 17 to the Convention on the International Civil Aviation, the Department of Aviation informs about the fact of an act of unlawful interference in the activities of civil aviation on the territory of the Republic of Belarus. On May 23, 2021, a written message with the following content in English was sent to the e-mail of the National Airport Minsk from the e-mail address protonmail.com: “We, Hamas soldiers, demand that Israel cease fire in the Gaza Strip. We demand that the European Union abandon its support for Israel in this war. We know that the participants of Delphi Economic Forum are returning home on May 23 via flight FR4978. A bomb has been planted onto this aircraft. If you don’t meet our demands the bomb will explode on May 23 over Vilnius. Allahu Akbar.” Taking into account the seriousness of the threat received, the information from the National Airport Minsk was forwarded to the relevant air traffic control services of Belaeronavigatsia State-Owned-Enterprise. In accordance with the requirements of the Annex 17 to the Chicago Convention and the National Program for the Protection of Civil Aviation from Acts of Unlawful Interference in the Republic of Belarus, a response actions mechanism was put into effect in connection with acts of unlawful interference in the civil aviation activity. The flight FR4978 en route Athens (Greece) - Vilnius (Lithuania), operated on a Boeing 737-800 by Ryanair. The aircraft departed from Athens airport at 07.10 UTC (10.10 Belarusian time), entered into the Republic of Belarus airspace under the control of the Minsk ACC at 09.30 UTC (12.30 Belarusian time). The entry point into the airspace of the Minsk FIR was SOMAT. Some comments on this: The report is 'by the book' as it should be. Protonmail, from where the email was received, is a encrypted web-email service hosted in Switzerland which allows more or less anonymous traffic. An alleged screenshot of the email currently gets peddled around by the Editor-in-Chief of NEXTA: Tadeusz Giczan @TadeuszGiczan - 11:59 PM · May 26, 2021 Not that anyone had any doubts but ‘Hamas email’ was sent to Minsk airport 24 minutes after Belarusian air controllers warned Ryanair pilots there’s a bomb onboard. bigger Giczan is right in that the time shown in the screenshot is inconsistent with the timing of the Ryanair flight in the Belorussian airspace. That however proves nothing. Time stamps in emails are notoriously unreliable as they depend on various computer timezone settings and several other variables. Clocks, computers and phones in Switzerland are currently set to UTC(GMT)+2 hours. Clocks, computers and phones in Belarus to UTC+3. A email sent at 10:57 Geneva time would likely show up as sent at 11:57 in Minsk time. However, if the timezone of the computer/phone that is used to look at the email is set to UTC+4 the email time would be shown as 12:57. Nice trick Mr. Nexta but that screenshot is unconvincing. The content of the email is not convincing as a threat. The demand for a ceasefire in Gaza is nonsense as one was already in place since May 21. The mentioning of the Delphi Economic Forum in Greece is of interest. Roman Protasevich had taken part in it and was on his way back to Vilnius. Why was that explicitly mentioned? If Belarus used the email as a trick to catch Protasevich why mention the Delphi Forum in the threat email? The last sentence of the email is of high interest because it decided where the plan would land: "If you don’t meet our demands the bomb will explode on May 23 over Vilnius." In previous incidents of bombs on civil aircraft these were either set off by a timer or by a barometer (pressure = height over ground). That the extortionist would name a specific location for the bomb explosion can only mean that the bomb would be set off by a GPS device. This explains why the pilots decided to diverted to Minsk instead of finishing the much shorter leg to Vilnius. bigger The pilots decided to go to Minsk because the risk of a potential bomb going off over Vilnius, as announced in the email, was high. The transcript of the radio traffic shows that the pilots, not the authorities in Belarus, made that decision.
Quote: Pilot: OK, I give you (unreadable) can you say again IATA code of the airport that authorities have recommended us to divert to? ATC: RYR 1TZ Standby. Pilot: Standby, Roger. ATC :09:41:00: RYR 1TZ . Pilot: Go ahead. ATC: IATA code is MSQ. Pilot: can you say again please? ATC:IATA code MSQ. Pilot: MSQ, thanks. Pilot: 09:41:58: RYR 1TZ Again, this recommendation to divert to Minsk where did it come from? Where did it come from? Company? Did it come from departure airport authorities or arrival airport authorities? ATC: RYR 1TZ this is our recommendations. ... Pilot:09:47:12: RYR 1TZ we are declaring an emergency MAYDAY, MAYDAY, MAYDAY RYR 1TZ. our intentions would be to divert to Minsk airport ATC: RYR 1TZ MAYDAY, Roger. Standby for vectors. Pilot: Standby RYR 1TZ. Pilot: 09:48:10 RYR 1TZ request descent to 10000 feet. ATC: RYR 1TZ , descend FL100. Pilot: descend (unreadable) RYR 1TZ. I am convinced that the radio transcript as presented by the Belorussian air authority is complete and that nothing in it is fake. Air control radio traffic is not encrypted and lots of amateurs constantly record it. The Cockpit Voice Recorder of the Ryanair machine will also have a full copy of the talk. Reportedly the Belorussian airforce sent up fighter jet to watch over the Ryanair flight. The Ryanair pilots were not made aware of that. There is no mention of it in the radio traffic transcript. Sending up fighter jets to watch over planes under bomb or hijacking threat is however a standard operation procedure. On July 14 2020 a bomb threat was made against a Ryanair flight from Krakow to Dublin. The plane made an emergency landing in Stansted: The security scare on a Ryanair flight which sparked the RAF to scramble two fighter jets was due to a note claiming there was bomb on board the plane, airline bosses revealed last night. Just three days later another Ryanair flight came under threat: A 51-year-old British man has been arrested after a Ryanair flight from London to Oslo received a bomb threat. Danish F-16 military aircraft were scrambled to escort the plane to Gardermoen Airport - the main international airport in Norway. In a statement, police said the situation is now under control and the aircraft will now be examined by the emergency squad and bomb group. It seems to me that the Belorussian authorities did everything by the book. Like in Norway the aircraft, its cargo and the passengers were examined by an emergency bomb squad. Here is how that looked in Minsk. bigger After the plane was declared clear by the bomb squad the authorities let the passengers board and leave to their original destination. Roman Protasevich and his Russian girlfriend, who had had a role in his regime-change efforts, were taken under arrest. At least one other passenger, who had originally planned to fly from Greece to Minsk with only a stopover in Vilnius, also went from board. Earlier speculations of KGB agents leaving the plane in Minsk have not been confirmed. The aviation department report closes with this: The Department of Aviation also wants to assure that the Belarusian aviation authorities, aviation organizations and the relevant law enforcement agencies of the state have taken and will continue to take the necessary measures and actions provided for by international and national legislation aimed at ensuring reliable protection of civil aviation from acts of unlawful interference. For further consideration of the circumstances the Department of Aviation has invited representatives of ICAO, IATA, EASA, and EU and USA Civil Aviation Authorities. Those international organizations should accept the invitation and take a deeper look at the issue. They should talk to the pilots and listen to the radio traffic as recorded by the cockpit voice recorder. I am convinced that they will find that everything happened exactly as the Belorussian authorities said. They received a bomb threat against the plane, informed the pilot and recommended to land in Minsk. The pilot weighted the circumstances and decided correctly to follow the advise. There is only one big question for which we have yet to find an answer. Who send the email that led to all this and for which purpose? One can easily construe motives for both sides. A. Belarus secret services wanted to capture Roman Protasevich no matter what and sent the email. They were willing to accept the predictable sanctions that would follow such a move. B. The regime change gang that met in Greece wanted new attention and fresh sanctions on Belarus. Someone in the team sent the email. The group was willing to accept a few years of jail time for Protasevich who might or might not have been in on this. I have no further evidence to decide if A or B is right. There is however a lot of historic evidence that 'western' supported regime-changers are extremely ruthless and willing to play with the lives and well fare of other people. My stomach feeling tends therefore to B. In light of the above it is quite curious (but not astonishing) that 'western' governments are now pressing their airlines to avoid Belorussian airspace. Russia, Belarus' big ally, is currently responding to that measure by prohibiting flights that avoid Belarussian from entering Russian airspace. A lot of flight schedules will have to change if this nonsense continues.
Thursday, May 27, 2021 7:53 PM
JEWELSTAITEFAN
Thursday, May 27, 2021 8:33 PM
1KIKI
Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.
Friday, May 28, 2021 1:29 AM
Quote:Originally posted by 1KIKI: From Signy's post it looks like a bomb threat against that flight was received, and as per long-standing SOP documented historically for that airline from previous bomb threats, the flight was diverted. Once it landed, authorities acted on the outstanding arrest warrant. They didn't divert the plane and bring it down just to arrest the guy. It looks like, once again, the media is falsifying the story to fit the narrative, to propagandize us for tptb.
Friday, May 28, 2021 4:08 AM
Quote:Ryanair Flight 4978 was an international scheduled passenger flight from Athens International Airport, Greece, to Vilnius Airport, Lithuania, on 23 May 2021. While in Belarusian airspace, it was diverted by the Belarusian government to Minsk National Airport where two of its passengers, opposition activist and journalist Roman Protasevich and his girlfriend Sofia Sapega, were arrested by authorities. The flight was escorted to Minsk by a Belarusian fighter jet under the pretence of a bomb threat on the orders of the President of Belarus, Alexander Lukashenko. The aircraft was allowed to depart after seven hours, reaching Vilnius eight and a half hours behind schedule. The event was widely condemned by civil aviation authorities and multiple governments. Initially some European states and airlines responded with new restrictions on flights passing through and from Belarus; on the day after the incident, the European Union initiated new sanctions, including closing off Belarusian airspace and carriers to the EU
Friday, May 28, 2021 5:05 AM
Friday, May 28, 2021 7:59 AM
Friday, May 28, 2021 2:53 PM
Friday, May 28, 2021 4:25 PM
Quote:Also remember, that the plane of Bolivian president Evo Morales was forced to land in Austria in July 2013, after France, Spain, Portugal and Italy had closed their airspace on American orders.
Friday, May 28, 2021 4:36 PM
Quote:Originally posted by 1KIKI: JSF, I'm not making anything up. If you read Signy's post (you DID read the post - right?) the decision where to go was made by ATC.
Quote: And when it comes to which story has more eividence - Signy's or yours - well, yours has none, whereas Signy's has quite a bit. Oh, as long you feel free to make snarky personal comments, let me return the favor. Why not land on Signy for being stupid and posting her post? Why land on me because I reiterated it? Is it because you have the emotional maturity of a 13 year old 'mean girl'? Or are you drunk posting?
Friday, May 28, 2021 4:47 PM
Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: JSF: Stop thinking with your feelz. Far from being "unprecedented!" the diversion of aircraft bc of bomb threats is commonplace. RyanAir itself had two previous diversions recently. And the west has diverted aircraft bc political refugees were suspected to be onboard, most notably Quote:Also remember, that the plane of Bolivian president Evo Morales was forced to land in Austria in July 2013, after France, Spain, Portugal and Italy had closed their airspace on American orders. https://www.moonofalabama.org/ because Edward Snowden was suspected to be onboard. (He wasn't.) Not only was the plane a commercial flight, it was transporting the President of a foreign nation. Where was the outrage then?
Quote:All together, there is a list of about a dozen flight diversions and/ interferences not having anything to do with bomb threats, all perpetrated by the west.
Quote:In any case, the bomb threat emails were real, but not genuine. The question isn't whether there was a bomb threat or whether Belarus' response was legal and by the book
Quote:but who made the threat? It was awfully convenient for Belarus.
Friday, May 28, 2021 4:49 PM
Quote:So there have been, if the officials are to be believed, two bomb threat emails. The first one at 12:25 local time (9:25 UTC) arrived five minutes before the Ryanair flight at 12:30 (9:30 UTC) entered Belorussian airspace. That would have left enough time to contact the air traffic controller who then warned the plane. The email in the screenshot received at would have been the second one. The Ryanair pilot was warned of the bomb threat at 9:30 utc but declared Mayday only at 9:47 utc. It took him several more minutes to change the course. The sender of the emails might have watched the plane's course on Flight Aware and prepared and sent the second email when the plane seemed not to react to the first one.
Quote:The content of the email is not convincing as a threat. The demand for a ceasefire in Gaza is nonsense as one was already in place since May 21. The mentioning of the Delphi Economic Forum in Greece is of interest. Roman Protasevich had taken part in it and was on his way back to Vilnius. Why was that explicitly mentioned? If Belarus used the email as a trick to catch Protasevich why mention the Delphi Forum in the threat email? The last sentence of the email is of high interest because it decided where the plan would land: "If you don’t meet our demands the bomb will explode on May 23 over Vilnius." In previous incidents of bombs on civil aircraft these were either set off by a timer or by a barometer (pressure = height over ground). That the extortionist would name a specific location for the bomb explosion can only mean that the bomb would be set off by a GPS device. This explains why the pilots decided to diverted to Minsk instead of finishing the much shorter leg to Vilnius.
Friday, May 28, 2021 5:00 PM
Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: The bomb threat was real. The first arrived before RyanAir was over Belarus. Quote:So there have been, if the officials are to be believed, two bomb threat emails. The first one at 12:25 local time (9:25 UTC) arrived five minutes before the Ryanair flight at 12:30 (9:30 UTC) entered Belorussian airspace. That would have left enough time to contact the air traffic controller who then warned the plane. The email in the screenshot received at would have been the second one. The Ryanair pilot was warned of the bomb threat at 9:30 utc but declared Mayday only at 9:47 utc. It took him several more minutes to change the course. The sender of the emails might have watched the plane's course on Flight Aware and prepared and sent the second email when the plane seemed not to react to the first one. But even MoA questions the threat's credibility. Quote:The content of the email is not convincing as a threat. The demand for a ceasefire in Gaza is nonsense as one was already in place since May 21. The mentioning of the Delphi Economic Forum in Greece is of interest. Roman Protasevich had taken part in it and was on his way back to Vilnius. Why was that explicitly mentioned? If Belarus used the email as a trick to catch Protasevich why mention the Delphi Forum in the threat email? The last sentence of the email is of high interest because it decided where the plan would land: "If you don’t meet our demands the bomb will explode on May 23 over Vilnius." In previous incidents of bombs on civil aircraft these were either set off by a timer or by a barometer (pressure = height over ground). That the extortionist would name a specific location for the bomb explosion can only mean that the bomb would be set off by a GPS device. This explains why the pilots decided to diverted to Minsk instead of finishing the much shorter leg to Vilnius.
Friday, May 28, 2021 5:01 PM
Quote: SIGNYM: JSF: Stop thinking with your feelz. Far from being "unprecedented!" the diversion of aircraft bc of bomb threats is commonplace. RyanAir itself had two previous diversions recently. And the west has diverted aircraft bc political refugees were suspected to be onboard, most notably Quote:Also remember, that the plane of Bolivian president Evo Morales was forced to land in Austria in July 2013, after France, Spain, Portugal and Italy had closed their airspace on American orders. https://www.moonofalabama.org/ because Edward Snowden was suspected to be onboard. (He wasn't.) Not only was the plane a commercial flight, it was transporting the President of a foreign nation. Where was the outrage then? JSF: Recalling the crimes of Obama? Have you forgotten what an unmitigated disaster Obamanation was?
Quote: SIGNY: All together, there is a list of about a dozen flight diversions and/ interferences not having anything to do with bomb threats, all perpetrated by the west. JSF: Were these all at the whims of Obama?
Quote:SIGNY: In any case, the bomb threat emails were real, but not genuine. The question isn't whether there was a bomb threat or whether Belarus' response was legal and by the book JSF: Incorrect - that is the real question, why divert a plane with a bomb on board to the farther airport of Minsk, instead of the nearer airport of Kaunas? Is THAT the by-the-book response? If a plane is near Chicago, it should be diverted to LAX while it carries a bomb?
Quote: JSF: In one of your examples, the plane was in RAF airspace - so why not divert the plane which was near Dublin to London, which was also farther away? Are you saying that only reasonable nations divert planes to a nearby airport, and only Belarus habitually diverts to a farther airport where arresting agents are waiting? SIGNY... but who made the threat? It was awfully convenient for Belarus. JSF: Convenient, my ass. Like saying Covid was created and Lockdowns were enacted to be convenient for Biden to steal the election.
Friday, May 28, 2021 5:42 PM
Quote:The Minsk airport control service refused to contact Ryanair, falsely stating that the company did not answer the phone," - O'Leary noted in his letter.
Quote:Just after 12:30 p.m. local time on May 23, flying at an altitude of around 12,000 meters, Ryanair's Vilnius-bound flight FR4978 from Athens crossed into Belarusian airspace and made contact with air traffic controllers in the capital, Minsk. "For your information, we have information from special services that you have bomb on board and it can be activated over Vilnius," the Minsk controller says. "Ok," the pilot responds, "could you repeat the message?" "I say again we have information from special services that you have bomb on board," the controller responds. "That bomb can be activated over Vilnius." Nearly 16 minutes later, the pilot informs the Minsk controllers: "We are declaring an emergency MAYDAY, MAYDAY, MAYDAY… Our intentions would be to divert to Minsk airport." The conversation, detailed in an uncorroborated and incomplete transcript released by Belarusian officials, is a key piece of evidence in the evolving mystery surrounding Flight 4978, whose journey included an escort by a Belarusian Air Force fighter jet.
Quote: The back-and-forth between the cockpit and ground control suggests pilots sought clarity on diverting to Minsk
Friday, May 28, 2021 6:03 PM
Friday, May 28, 2021 6:41 PM
Friday, May 28, 2021 7:15 PM
Quote:Originally posted by JAYNEZTOWN: I believe the airplane is registered in Poland, now Poland has begun its own pre-investigation We have several media sources which claim to have the real transcripts Other media also claims some Transcripts are false or edited Ryanair Head: Transcript Of Talks Provided By Belarusian Authorities Isn't True https://charter97.org/en/news/2021/5/28/423937/ Quote:The Minsk airport control service refused to contact Ryanair, falsely stating that the company did not answer the phone," - O'Leary noted in his letter. 'You Have Bomb On Board': Belarusian Transcript Of Ryanair Pilots Raises More Questions Than It Answers https://www.rferl.org/a/belarus-ryanair-patrasevich-transcript-questions-bomb-lukashenka/31275279.html Quote:Just after 12:30 p.m. local time on May 23, flying at an altitude of around 12,000 meters, Ryanair's Vilnius-bound flight FR4978 from Athens crossed into Belarusian airspace and made contact with air traffic controllers in the capital, Minsk. "For your information, we have information from special services that you have bomb on board and it can be activated over Vilnius," the Minsk controller says. "Ok," the pilot responds, "could you repeat the message?" "I say again we have information from special services that you have bomb on board," the controller responds. "That bomb can be activated over Vilnius." Nearly 16 minutes later, the pilot informs the Minsk controllers: "We are declaring an emergency MAYDAY, MAYDAY, MAYDAY… Our intentions would be to divert to Minsk airport." The conversation, detailed in an uncorroborated and incomplete transcript released by Belarusian officials, is a key piece of evidence in the evolving mystery surrounding Flight 4978, whose journey included an escort by a Belarusian Air Force fighter jet. Ryanair Pilots Questioned Request to Land, Transcript Released by Belarus Shows https://www.wsj.com/articles/ryanair-pilots-questioned-request-to-land-transcript-released-by-belarus-shows-11621968263 Quote: The back-and-forth between the cockpit and ground control suggests pilots sought clarity on diverting to Minsk The whole event is very strange and there is a lot of political spin happening now This event and the reality of it should be fully investigated Even though there has been no Loss of Life and no actual 'Crash' I believe it might be wise for authority in Lithuania, Greece, the FBI and Polish Police to have an actual look at the Blackbox and Recordings and listen and see as to what happened between the Belarus Ground and the Pilots. I believe because the plan was manufactured by Boeing guys from the NTSB, the FAA and Boeing would be given access to the Flight recorder. This event has a big international element to it but I have read some transport history books before and watched some flight documentary so I believe perhaps the FAA or FBI may take part in the investigation being conducted by the NTSB. Belarus might be outside Europe and politically closer to Russia, maybe in some old Soviet Baltic travel zone but this aircraft traveled between 2 EU countries, I believe also Europe has some kind of Euro Control flight management transport system or EU Sky or Single European Sky Authority. I believe the FBI is now involved in an investigation into the plane 'hijack' and it would be normal for the FBI to get involved with investigations of terror threats or bomb threats. Can Biden Do Anything About Belarus? https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/05/28/can-biden-do-anything-about-belarus/ Biden mulls sanctions as Belarus blogger’s family beg for help https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/may/26/first-thing-belarus-raman-pratasevich-family President Joe Biden said U.S. sanctions against Belarus are in play, but declined to offer more details. Biden made the remark to reporters as he was leaving the White House en route to his home state of Delaware amid international outrage over Belarus' forcing down of a jetliner and arrest of a dissident journalist on board. https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2021-05-25/biden-says-us-sanctions-against-belarus-are-in-play Biden blasts Belarus plane diversion as US vows to hold regime ‘to account’ https://nypost.com/2021/05/25/biden-calls-belarus-plane-diversion-an-outrageous-incident/
Friday, May 28, 2021 7:27 PM
Friday, May 28, 2021 9:15 PM
Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: Amateurs CONSTANTLY listen in on pilot/ATC conversations, which is how some really funny Youtube compilations are made. (I even posted some of them myself.) Therefore if the Belarus' version of the transcript was wrong or incomplete, that could be pointed out by any number of people right away. Hence, Belarus has no reason to fake a transcript. In addition the "black box" records all cockpit noise, which would also reveal a fake transcript.
Friday, May 28, 2021 11:06 PM
Saturday, May 29, 2021 6:22 AM
Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: Why should Biden "do something" about a plane that was diverted to a major airport bc of a bomb threat? Why should Biden do ANYTHING about a foreign aircraft operating in foreign airspace where American lives and safety were not threatened? Enquiring minds want to know!
Sunday, May 30, 2021 12:27 AM
Sunday, May 30, 2021 2:23 AM
Quote:Originally posted by JAYNEZTOWN: A US made Boeing 737 Aircraft Flight track https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/fr4978#27cce9a2 https://flightaware.com/live/flight/RYR1TZ/history/20210523/0731Z/LGAV/UMMS
Sunday, May 30, 2021 2:58 AM
Sunday, May 30, 2021 3:05 AM
Quote:European officials have called a bomb threat improbable, and the European Union has restricted its carriers from flying over Belarus.
Sunday, May 30, 2021 9:54 AM
Sunday, May 30, 2021 11:28 AM
Sunday, May 30, 2021 12:17 PM
Quote:ProtonMail, [is] an encrypted end-to-end email provider in Switzerland which [which] promises 'Swiss Privacy Data Security and Neutrality'... ProtonMail may or may not have made that quite explicit headline claim. It is however 100% false. Belarus received a legit bomb threat against a Ryanair flight via an email sent through the ProtonMail mail servers. After receiving the email it contacted the plane in question and recommended to the pilot to divert the plane to Minsk. The pilot voluntarily followed that advice. ProtonMail has made no effort to correct the false impression and false headlines its statement has caused. It has instead obfuscated the issue as much as it could. ... Due to the malign behavior of ProtonMail new sanctions against Belarus, which will directly or indirectly hurt every Belorussian citizen, were introduced by the United States, the EU and other countries. Moon of Alabama has detailed the publicly available evidence of the case and has called on ProtonMail to correct the record. ProtonMail responded and communicated with me via Twitter. In its communication with me ProtonMail indirectly admitted that the above headline is wrong. The complete exchange is of public interest and therefore copied below. How did this happen? On May 23 at 9:25 utc some yet unknown person used a ProtonMail email account to send a bomb threat against Ryanair flight 4978 witch at that time was in the air flying from Greece to Vilnius, Lithuania. The email was directly addressed in the "Send to:" field to the Lithuanian administration responsible for Lithuanian airports. The airport of Minsk, Belarus, with the email address info@airport.by, was copied in the "CC to:" 'Carbon copy' field of the very same email. In communication with me ProtonMail tried to claim that this meant that Minsk was not directly addressed in that email. That is nonsense. Any email server will handled email addresses in the "Send To:", "Carbon Copy (CC) to:" and "Blind Carbon Copy (BCC) to:" fields equally in that it will resolve the IP-address of the appropriate server responsible for receiving emails to that email-address. It will then open a session with it that server and deliver the mail. It makes no difference for the receiving side in which "To:" field of the sent email it was mentioned. It will get a full copy of the email. Minsk received the first email at 9:25 utc. At 9:30 utc Ryanair flight 4978 entered Belorussian airspace. It was immediately contacted by the Belorussian Air Traffic Control (ATC) and made aware of the bomb threat against the plane.
Quote: The complete English language radio exchange between the Ryanair pilot, call sign RYR 1TZ, and the ATC as well as a narrative of what had happened was published by the Belorussian air traffic authorities (scroll down for the English version and the radio transcript).
Sunday, May 30, 2021 9:41 PM
Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: Jeezus, endless handwringing from JAYNEZ. Everything you posted, I already posted. I got my info from Moon of Alabama. Maybe you should go there and get some credible info instead mouthbreating hysteria. The bomb threat was real but it didn't seem credbible because they demanded a ceasefire in Gaza altho one was already in effect. The mystery is who sent the emails, not Belarus' response. I posted that right away. Get over it, already.
Sunday, May 30, 2021 10:18 PM
6IXSTRINGJACK
Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: I got my info from Moon of Alabama.
Sunday, May 30, 2021 10:26 PM
Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: PROTONMAIL FALSELY IMPLIES THAT EMAIL THREAT WAS RECEIVED AFTER RYANIAR WAS DIVERTED ... Quote:ProtonMail, [is] an encrypted end-to-end email provider in Switzerland which [which] promises 'Swiss Privacy Data Security and Neutrality'... ProtonMail may or may not have made that quite explicit headline claim. It is however 100% false. Belarus received a legit bomb threat against a Ryanair flight via an email sent through the ProtonMail mail servers. After receiving the email it contacted the plane in question and recommended to the pilot to divert the plane to Minsk. The pilot voluntarily followed that advice. ProtonMail has made no effort to correct the false impression and false headlines its statement has caused. It has instead obfuscated the issue as much as it could. ... Due to the malign behavior of ProtonMail new sanctions against Belarus, which will directly or indirectly hurt every Belorussian citizen, were introduced by the United States, the EU and other countries. Moon of Alabama has detailed the publicly available evidence of the case and has called on ProtonMail to correct the record. ProtonMail responded and communicated with me via Twitter. In its communication with me ProtonMail indirectly admitted that the above headline is wrong. The complete exchange is of public interest and therefore copied below. How did this happen? On May 23 at 9:25 utc some yet unknown person used a ProtonMail email account to send a bomb threat against Ryanair flight 4978 witch at that time was in the air flying from Greece to Vilnius, Lithuania. The email was directly addressed in the "Send to:" field to the Lithuanian administration responsible for Lithuanian airports. The airport of Minsk, Belarus, with the email address info@airport.by, was copied in the "CC to:" 'Carbon copy' field of the very same email. In communication with me ProtonMail tried to claim that this meant that Minsk was not directly addressed in that email. That is nonsense. Any email server will handled email addresses in the "Send To:", "Carbon Copy (CC) to:" and "Blind Carbon Copy (BCC) to:" fields equally in that it will resolve the IP-address of the appropriate server responsible for receiving emails to that email-address. It will then open a session with it that server and deliver the mail. It makes no difference for the receiving side in which "To:" field of the sent email it was mentioned. It will get a full copy of the email. Minsk received the first email at 9:25 utc. At 9:30 utc Ryanair flight 4978 entered Belorussian airspace. It was immediately contacted by the Belorussian Air Traffic Control (ATC) and made aware of the bomb threat against the plane. So, it's clear that the first bomb threat was received BEFORE the plane entered Belarus' airspace. I have a question: If the email had been sent to Vilnus, why didn't the authorities there attempt to contact the Ryanair flight? Not in their airspace? Attempted to call Ryanair (like Belarus claims it did) but couldn't get anyone on the phone? (like Belarus claims happened) Quote: The complete English language radio exchange between the Ryanair pilot, call sign RYR 1TZ, and the ATC as well as a narrative of what had happened was published by the Belorussian air traffic authorities (scroll down for the English version and the radio transcript). The transcript is ONCE AGAIN made available, for your perusal https://www.moonofalabama.org/2021/05/like-an-amoral-infant-how-protonmail-contributes-to-false-media-claims-about-belarus.html#more Yanno, this is very much like the "quid pro quo" that Trump was accused of, or the claim that "Trump incited insurrection". When you have the original source material available, why go to some secondary, tertiary, or more distant source for your info? ----------- Pity would be no more, If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.
Sunday, May 30, 2021 11:09 PM
Sunday, May 30, 2021 11:23 PM
Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: UKRAINE did not receive the emailed threat, UKRAINE didn't know about it, thereforethey couldn't do anything about it. It was sent directly to Vilnius, Lithuania. Minsk, Belarus was cc:d, at least according to the email service. Why didn't VILNIUS (LITHUANIA) do anything about it?
Monday, May 31, 2021 12:48 AM
Monday, May 31, 2021 3:21 AM
Quote:Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN: Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: UKRAINE did not receive the emailed threat, UKRAINE didn't know about it, thereforethey couldn't do anything about it. It was sent directly to Vilnius, Lithuania. Minsk, Belarus was cc:d, at least according to the email service. Why didn't VILNIUS (LITHUANIA) do anything about it? ----------- Pity would be no more, If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love. As I explained, what could Vilnius do? Vilnius (or Lithuania ATC) had to wait for the plane to switch to their frequency - which the plane was about to do, before being diverted to the farthest airport available. Lithuania cannot switch to the Minsk frequency to interlope on those transmissions.
Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: UKRAINE did not receive the emailed threat, UKRAINE didn't know about it, thereforethey couldn't do anything about it. It was sent directly to Vilnius, Lithuania. Minsk, Belarus was cc:d, at least according to the email service. Why didn't VILNIUS (LITHUANIA) do anything about it? ----------- Pity would be no more, If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.
Monday, May 31, 2021 2:04 PM
Monday, May 31, 2021 3:30 PM
Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: Quote:Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN: Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: UKRAINE did not receive the emailed threat, UKRAINE didn't know about it, thereforethey couldn't do anything about it. It was sent directly to Vilnius, Lithuania. Minsk, Belarus was cc:d, at least according to the email service. Why didn't VILNIUS (LITHUANIA) do anything about it? ----------- Pity would be no more, If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love. As I explained, what could Vilnius do? Vilnius (or Lithuania ATC) had to wait for the plane to switch to their frequency - which the plane was about to do, before being diverted to the farthest airport available. Lithuania cannot switch to the Minsk frequency to interlope on those transmissions. So Vilnius ATC couldn't do anything bc they were not on contact with the plane, and KIEV ATC couldn't do anything bc they didn't know about the threat. It was all up to Minsk ATC. BTW, where doyou getthis crazy idea that the fighter jet intercepted Ryanair before the bomb threat was received, and before the pilot sent out a mayday (request to land)? Most people that I know say that the fighter jet didn't get off the ground until Ryanair had already turned around. BTW Belarus has been requesting a full investigation from the ICAO. I heard they were going to do one, https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/air-transport/2021-05-28/icao-council-agrees-investigation-belarus-incident then I heard they weren't. What are they, as crooked as OPCW? I know you're jonesing to pin something, anything on Belarus, but we will never know who set this up until we know who sent the emails, and we'll never know unless an investigation is done.
Monday, May 31, 2021 5:42 PM
Monday, May 31, 2021 5:56 PM
Monday, May 31, 2021 6:06 PM
Quote:Originally posted by JAYNEZTOWN: Reading some online gossip this guy says 'the arrested passenger faces the death penalty in Belarus.' https://community.defconwarningsystem.com/threads/ryanair-civilian-airliner-forced-to-land-in-minsk-by-belarusian-mig-29-passenger-arrested.14951/ This user comments 'Very disturbing. Journalism is a very dangerous profession for many.' The journalist Roman Protasevich, Sofia Sapega, 23, were arrested when the plane landed. White House announces sanctions over Belarus' passenger plane interception https://www.politico.com/news/2021/05/28/white-house-belarus-sanction-491402 "Belarus's forced diversion of a commercial Ryanair flight under false pretenses, traveling between two member states of the European Union, and the subsequent removal and arrest of Raman Pratasevich, a Belarusian journalist, are a direct affront to international norms," White House press secretary Jen Psaki said in a statement. The White House on Friday said the Department of State has issued a Level 4 Do Not Travel Warning to U.S. citizens, urging them to not travel to Belarus. The White House said it is also coordinating with the European Union and other allies to develop targeted sanctions against Lukashenka and members of his regime Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: Why should Biden "do something" about a plane that was diverted to a major airport bc of a bomb threat? Why should Biden do ANYTHING about a foreign aircraft operating in foreign airspace where American lives and safety were not threatened? Enquiring minds want to know! Aircraft makers take incidents very serious, if anything happens they do their best to fix it so it never happens again and I believe this is why flying is the safest form of travel. There were many different nationalities on that aircraft flying across Europe, I believe American citizens were also on the aircraft or maybe dual citizens? It is not really a 'foreign aircraft' the aircraft was built in the United States of America. maybe built in Renton, King County built by Boeing Airplane Company in the US State of Washington There are two big Aircraft manufacturing companies in the world, Airbus and Boeing, these guys are really world's only major large passenger aircraft manufacturers. You can buy other aircraft but people that own airlines typically only buy from one of the Big Two. There are lots of other Aircraft production companies making small sales to smaller airlines and you have military contracts, they make stuff for military but in commercial sales Boeing and Airbus are the big ones. I believe you could add all the sales of all the other companies in the world and their sales of commerce aircraft still would not compare with Sales of Boeing or Airbus. Boeing and Airbus with revenue streams of about 58 billion U.S. dollars and 49 billion euros, respectively, they are valuable additions to the economies of the United States and Europe. Airbus is a European company, Boeing is an American company, Ryanair I believe is an Irish European Airline flying around Europe but they buy American Aircraft. If something goes wrong with an American aircraft it is in America's interest to figure out what went wrong and fix it so it does not happen again. When an Aircraft hits the headlines for the wrong reason it can cost US sales, it then costs American jobs, it might also influence people's confidence in that particular aircraft sold. It seems now this entire situation was contrived, the false appearance of an explosive, a bomb threat that never existed. Followed by the arrest of a journalist or political protester, a guy Belarus did not like?
Monday, May 31, 2021 6:23 PM
Quote:(America) Do you know the International Language of Aviation? What Language are Traffic Controllers required to speak at all International airports? There is a reason for that.
Monday, May 31, 2021 6:32 PM
Monday, May 31, 2021 7:22 PM
Monday, May 31, 2021 8:45 PM
Quote:Originally posted by 1KIKI: Quote:Do you know the International Language of Aviation? What Language are Traffic Controllers required to speak at all International airports? There is a reason for that.I hope YOU realize that there's no such language as American! And that America didn't spread 'American'(English) around the globe, or even invent 'American'(English). Nope. The British did both, especially with their colonies that controlled roughly 23% of the global population and 24% of the total land area at its height!
Quote:Do you know the International Language of Aviation? What Language are Traffic Controllers required to speak at all International airports? There is a reason for that.
Monday, May 31, 2021 9:08 PM
Monday, May 31, 2021 9:52 PM
Monday, May 31, 2021 10:34 PM
Quote:Originally posted by 1KIKI: Just like Mexicans don't speak 'Mexican' - they speak Spanish, a language that originated in Spain; Americans don't speak American, we speak English, a language that originated in England. You seem to be confused about what language is spoken by pilots around the world, since you reference 'America' when you talk about it. No, they don't speak American. There is no such language as American. They speak English, specifically Aviation English. "Aviation English is the internationally-established language of the skies, consisting of about three hundred terms that are a combination of professional jargon and plain English." ... long before the Kitty Hawk,.... You seem to think history began in ... 1903 perhaps? That no international business, or travel, or communication existed before then? Oh, and aviation uses all sorts of measures - yes, even metric. And airspeed is measured in knots, when it's not measured in m/sec. And distance is measured in nautical miles, usually. I supposed those were American inventions, too. Just because you're a provincial American hick who doesn't know nuthin' about the rest of the world or history, doesn't mean your ignorance is correct! https://aerosavvy.com/metric-imperial/?doing_wp_cron=1622461931.6398611068725585937500 And please, try to stop running your life on hatred.
Monday, May 31, 2021 11:05 PM
Quote:Of course, mankind was flying planes around the world long before 1900 - everybody was doing it, every nation, in every language. You are obviously correct.
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