Into the fire..Enjoy this ...Let the debate begin by kaneman

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Into the fire..Enjoy this ...Let the debate begin

POSTED BY: KANEMAN
UPDATED: Thursday, September 28, 2006 16:25
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VIEWED: 2300
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Monday, September 25, 2006 6:58 PM

Infrared posted this link in talk story. Click on videos... Was late last night. I didn't know how to direct RWers to it...So I pirated it for you. It was pretty scary sh*t to me. Oh make sure to watch all three videos on left hand side of videos page. Should be a trailer than two others.
http://www.jesuscampthemovie.com/

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Monday, September 25, 2006 7:18 PM

JOSSISAGOD

"dedicated Christian Soliders in God's army." That scares me just as much as Islamic Terrorists! It would seem that the site you posted is advocating the same brand of religous justice as the Fundimentalist Islamic terrorist groups. (albeit probably to a lesser degree.(or not, I don't know)) Either way, I don't know if I want Religion stuffed in with American politics.

P.S. I feel a bit dirty from watching those movies.

P.P.S. This is why I usually stay out of the RWED threads, I tend to bable like a Moon-brain.

Fe'nos Tol
JOSSIS(Most Definitely)AGOD

Self appointed Forsaken! Been on the list for a while now!

98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature.
"Look at me, I'm STUPID!" The Doctor.

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Monday, September 25, 2006 9:45 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Ain't news to me, I've dealt with these types for prettymuch all my life, which is cause and reason for my intense hostility to them.

-Frem

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Tuesday, September 26, 2006 7:57 PM

ANTIMASON

i am noticing an ever increasing hostility towards christians.. hypocracy truly knows no bounds. Jesus says "do not judge, or you will be judged" and "with the measure you use, so to will it be given unto you" .. and "love your neighbor as yourself; for all the commandments are summed up in this one command; for love does no harm, therefore is the fullfillment of the Law" ... yet you all are so quick to judge us for our imperfections. are you all perfect? well we dont claim to be either.. but Jesus' says it best when he says

"why do you point out the speck in your brothers eye, yet fail to recognize the plank in your own? you hypocrite! first remove the plank from your own eye, then you can see clearly to remove the speck from your brothers.."

man is inherintly imperfect..but recognizing those imperfections, exposing them, and humbling yourself to change for the better is all part of growing spiritually; that is all the bible can be asked to do. who are you to judge these people? atleast they are trying to spread a message of love and tolerance.. there are millions of other things we are exposed to on a daily basis which compromise and rob our spiritual nature.. like the degenerative immorality that the media exploits whoreshly, yet we never hear any complaints about those influences, its Jesus' that everyone has a problem with

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Tuesday, September 26, 2006 8:35 PM

INFRARED

Stephen Colbert talks about this movie on the Colbert Report tonite (9/26). So watch the repeats tomorrow.

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Wednesday, September 27, 2006 12:32 AM

CITIZEN

I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
Ghandi

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Wednesday, September 27, 2006 2:53 AM

SIMONWHO

Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:
i am noticing an ever increasing hostility towards christians.. hypocracy truly knows no bounds. Jesus says "do not judge, or you will be judged" and "with the measure you use, so to will it be given unto you" .. and "love your neighbor as yourself; for all the commandments are summed up in this one command; for love does no harm, therefore is the fullfillment of the Law" ... yet you all are so quick to judge us for our imperfections. are you all perfect?

No, it would hypocritical if we were Christians and judging other people. If we're not Christians and judge Christians, that's just our point of view: we're not bound by your beliefs.

However, yes, the standard fundamentalist judgement on the world around them is hypocritical. The problem isn't with Jesus, it's with people like you.

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Wednesday, September 27, 2006 3:54 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Anti, whether or not you like the fact, these intolerant, bigoted, racist fanatics are representing your belief system to others - and yes I know it's a distortion of that belief system, but AS IT IS PRACTICED, about 80% of the "Christians" I run into are like that, and thus, by their actions they define what the "Christian Belief" is, as a whole, in this country today.

Are their actions Christlike ?
Mayhaps, cause ole JC was NOT the nice guy you seem to think he was, hypocritical, tempermental, and on occasion downright nasty.

I have known devout people, in fact, since I deal with child-protection issues I run into a lot of devout folk, both fanatical and more reasonable, and since it is an issue that crosses all lines of belief, it's quite possible on my days off to see a couple of protestants, muslims, catholics, neopagans and at least one fairly mellow astaru sharing coffee and muffins with me while we discuss matters in a civil and logical fashion - so I know religion doesn't make people who practice it intolerant pyschotic nutwads.

But a lot of them who practice it ARE pyschotic nutwads and the greater majority of them are representative of what the Christian Belief System has become whether you like it or not - in fact if I held to the beliefs you do, I would be ashamed to call myself Christian, and would work at finding some better way to define the gulf between those who practice it in that manner, and how you practice it.

And like it or not, when someone tells me they are Christian, it does trigger a certain restrained hostility from me until they prove that they are NOT a rabid fundamentalist lunatic looking for some unbelievers to persecute, the actions of those who profess the belief as a general rule have lead to this.

Nothin against YOU mind, cause unlike the great majority of them you have actually READ the book, and have some understanding of it - not to say I agree with you cause I most certainly don't, but at least you understand the belief you hold.

Clear enough ?

-Frem

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Wednesday, September 27, 2006 4:43 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:
who are you to judge these people? atleast they are trying to spread a message of love and tolerance..

Unless you're gay, or Muslim, or... or not the same type of Christian.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, September 27, 2006 6:43 AM

FELLOWTRAVELER

Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:
i am noticing an ever increasing hostility towards christians.. hypocracy truly knows no bounds. Jesus says "do not judge, or you will be judged" and "with the measure you use, so to will it be given unto you" .. and "love your neighbor as yourself; for all the commandments are summed up in this one command; for love does no harm, therefore is the fullfillment of the Law" ... yet you all are so quick to judge us for our imperfections. are you all perfect? well we dont claim to be either.. but Jesus' says it best when he says

"why do you point out the speck in your brothers eye, yet fail to recognize the plank in your own? you hypocrite! first remove the plank from your own eye, then you can see clearly to remove the speck from your brothers.."

man is inherintly imperfect..but recognizing those imperfections, exposing them, and humbling yourself to change for the better is all part of growing spiritually; that is all the bible can be asked to do. who are you to judge these people? atleast they are trying to spread a message of love and tolerance.. there are millions of other things we are exposed to on a daily basis which compromise and rob our spiritual nature.. like the degenerative immorality that the media exploits whoreshly, yet we never hear any complaints about those influences, its Jesus' that everyone has a problem with

I don't think there is an increasing hostility towards Christians, but an increasing hostility toward Christian power and a growing intolerance of intolerance.

We often are not given examples of the hard working, humble Christians going about their day doing unto others. Instead, like in most other circumstances, it's the activists who get the ink.

And the activists are scary as Hell (see link above)! Their goal is not to quietly worship and live their lives, but it is to convert the rest of us. A noble goal? Perhaps. But it's not something we have asked for.

And when all else fails and they cannot convert us through threats of fire, brimstone, and eternal damnation, they get the feds involved and try to legislate their faith. They try to legislate their bigotry. They try to force schools to teach our children their creation myth. They try to force schools to make our children pray to their God. All the while complaining of being some oppressed minority. Ignoring the fact that they make up over 80% of the population (in the States).

How are we supposed to react? Should we ignore the Christian's ever increasing influence on our lives? Non-Christians are being forced into a corner and they will inevitably fight back.

Meh, it's no way to run an airline...

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Wednesday, September 27, 2006 8:54 AM

INFRARED

The parents in this movie are turning their kids into robots. How can they be human if they don't think for themselves? This kind of Christianity harkens back to the Dark Ages and the Spanish Inquisition. Firefly also covered this topic in an episode called "Safe".

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Thursday, September 28, 2006 2:12 PM

ANTIMASON

Quote:
Originally posted by SimonWho:

Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:
i am noticing an ever increasing hostility towards christians.. hypocracy truly knows no bounds. Jesus says "do not judge, or you will be judged" and "with the measure you use, so to will it be given unto you" .. and "love your neighbor as yourself; for all the commandments are summed up in this one command; for love does no harm, therefore is the fullfillment of the Law" ... yet you all are so quick to judge us for our imperfections. are you all perfect?

Quote:
No, it would hypocritical if we were Christians and judging other people. If we're not Christians and judge Christians, that's just our point of view: we're not bound by your beliefs.

-great... so you understand then that our faith preaches, as doctrine NOT TO JUDGE ANYONE, for we are no more righteous then others simply because we have faith. if you comprehend this, then why cant you grasp that true christians ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE JUDGING PEOPLE!! atleast you acknowledge that Mans freewill is not bound by such restraints of consciousness... which should support the case that a doctrine of love is better then no doctrine at all

Quote:
However, yes, the standard fundamentalist judgement on the world around them is hypocritical. The problem isn't with Jesus, it's with people like you.

tell me what i said wrong? and make sure its not a mistake that youve ever made.. or understand that you have no right to judge me for something you yourself do aswell

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Thursday, September 28, 2006 2:26 PM

ANTIMASON

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Anti, whether or not you like the fact, these intolerant, bigoted, racist fanatics are representing your belief system to others - and yes I know it's a distortion of that belief system, but AS IT IS PRACTICED, about 80% of the "Christians" I run into are like that, and thus, by their actions they define what the "Christian Belief" is, as a whole, in this country today.

true.. but like what? shallow, materialistic, bigotted, racist, indifferent biased prejudiced degenerative... i mean, is this just the christians? no, its every single person on earth... what makes you athiests, agnostics or others out their any different? the difference is that you dont have a set belief system that can be attacked like christians do... but scrutinze Jesus' word all you want, and you will be hard pressed to find him condone anything other than love and tolerance, so what gives? mans fallen nature, the reason why ANY HUMAN BEING SINS

Quote:
Are their actions Christlike ?
Mayhaps, cause ole JC was NOT the nice guy you seem to think he was, hypocritical, tempermental, and on occasion downright nasty.

i assume thats your sarcasm

Quote:
I have known devout people, in fact, since I deal with child-protection issues I run into a lot of devout folk, both fanatical and more reasonable, and since it is an issue that crosses all lines of belief, it's quite possible on my days off to see a couple of protestants, muslims, catholics, neopagans and at least one fairly mellow astaru sharing coffee and muffins with me while we discuss matters in a civil and logical fashion - so I know religion doesn't make people who practice it intolerant pyschotic nutwads.

But a lot of them who practice it ARE pyschotic nutwads and the greater majority of them are representative of what the Christian Belief System has become whether you like it or not - in fact if I held to the beliefs you do, I would be ashamed to call myself Christian, and would work at finding some better way to define the gulf between those who practice it in that manner, and how you practice it.

*edit- i like to think i practice what Jesus preaches, but even i fail sometimes; i think christianities fault is that they either have not truly read the scriptures, or dont fully believe its message... both of which compromise its effectiveness. when i read the bible, i absorb it, contemplate and theorize.. it takes hold in me; and i dont forget something that God says will bring destruction upon myself

as for crazy people, yah its true..but is it just christians, or is it the whole of society in general? arent we being a little stereotypical, and biased..when we call out christians for their sins, yet leave the rest of society free of blame? yet i try not to accuse groups of people of their imperfections, because God says i have no right to judge others. what the bible does is it exposes those imperfect actions so that people, as individuals, will prevent themselves from acting immorally BEFORE it happens

Quote:
And like it or not, when someone tells me they are Christian, it does trigger a certain restrained hostility from me until they prove that they are NOT a rabid fundamentalist lunatic looking for some unbelievers to persecute, the actions of those who profess the belief as a general rule have lead to this.

do i live in another country? where are these masses of helpless unbelievers being persecuted by gangs of hooded christians? dont kid yourself, American society is far more hostile toward Jesus, then Jesus is toward American society

Quote:
Nothin against YOU mind, cause unlike the great majority of them you have actually READ the book, and have some understanding of it - not to say I agree with you cause I most certainly don't, but at least you understand the belief you hold.

look, i think you for the compliment(i think), but take this from me as someone who takes my faith very seriously; these peoples actions are not in any way supported by the scriptures

Clear enough ?

-Frem

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Thursday, September 28, 2006 3:27 PM

HKCAVALIER

Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:
i am noticing an ever increasing hostility towards christians.. hypocracy truly knows no bounds. Jesus says "do not judge, or you will be judged" and "with the measure you use, so to will it be given unto you" .. and "love your neighbor as yourself; for all the commandments are summed up in this one command; for love does no harm, therefore is the fullfillment of the Law" ... yet you all are so quick to judge us for our imperfections. are you all perfect? well we dont claim to be either.. but Jesus' says it best when he says

"why do you point out the speck in your brothers eye, yet fail to recognize the plank in your own? you hypocrite! first remove the plank from your own eye, then you can see clearly to remove the speck from your brothers.."

man is inherintly imperfect..but recognizing those imperfections, exposing them, and humbling yourself to change for the better is all part of growing spiritually; that is all the bible can be asked to do. who are you to judge these people? atleast they are trying to spread a message of love and tolerance.. there are millions of other things we are exposed to on a daily basis which compromise and rob our spiritual nature.. like the degenerative immorality that the media exploits whoreshly, yet we never hear any complaints about those influences, its Jesus' that everyone has a problem with

If someone had told Jesus that every comment he ever made would be written down, taken out of context and applied to every human situation from now until the end of time, do you think He would have said anything at all?

Antimason, you're taking Jesus out of context here. He wasn't preaching against judgement per se, He was preaching against harsh and unjust judgement, and against hypocricy. Jesus called on people to be discerning, but Jesus really hated hypocricy--almost more than anything, didn't He? When you call someone a hypocrite, you're judging them. Jesus judged a lot of people, not the least of which were the pharisees whom he termed "offspring of vipers." Did he take up the whip against the money changers 'cause he loved them so?

"Judge not, lest ye be judged" taken out of context as you have done here, is preaching fear. "Fear the Judgement." Old, old testament stuff. Jesus didn't want us to be a bunch of fearful p.c. yes-men, did He? When He said that He brought a sword, that He came to set son against father, was he kidding?

You wanna have it both ways, you want to judge America as the Great Whore and turn around and shame folks here for judging Christians. What do you think Jesus would say to that?

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Thursday, September 28, 2006 4:25 PM

ANTIMASON

Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:

Quote:
If someone had told Jesus that every comment he ever made would be written down, taken out of context and applied to every human situation from now until the end of time, do you think He would have said anything at all?

i dont believe it would have changed anything; i think everything has happened this way for a reason, that Jesus and his disciples were destined to record his message and allow its to carry itself based on its merits

Quote:
Antimason, you're taking Jesus out of context here. He wasn't preaching against judgement per se, He was preaching against harsh and unjust judgement, and against hypocricy. Jesus called on people to be discerning, but Jesus really hated hypocricy--almost more than anything, didn't He? When you call someone a hypocrite, you're judging them. Jesus judged a lot of people, not the least of which were the pharisees whom he termed "offspring of vipers." Did he take up the whip against the money changers 'cause he loved them so?

"Judge not, lest ye be judged" taken out of context as you have done here, is preaching fear. "Fear the Judgement." Old, old testament stuff. Jesus didn't want us to be a bunch of fearful p.c. yes-men, did He? When He said that He brought a sword, that He came to set son against father, was he kidding?

but Jesus clearly says "watch out for false teachers and their destruction" and "with such people do not even eat", because those who twist Gods word are doing the an incredibly injustice to our faith and to everyone.

i agree... Jesus didnt want a bunch of P.C. push overs, but he didnt want us to prosecute and persecute people for their flaws or unbelief either, which is my point. there are many references, such as in revelation, that makes the analogy of Gods word being spoken of as a sword from the mouth... so i believe that when father is turned against son, it will be over the acceptance of Gods word and the gospel. i agree with you otherwise, to label a hypocrite is to judge, but how are you to expose what is a perversion otherwise?

Quote:
You wanna have it both ways, you want to judge America as the Great Whore and turn around and shame folks here for judging Christians. What do you think Jesus would say to that?

i think America is Babylon, because christians have not followed Jesus' word accurately, and have passively accepted false doctrines to slip in... and have even gone as far as promoting these perversions. we are to expose inaccuracies right? if Jesus says "no one can serve two masters; you will love the one and hate the other; you cannot serve both God and money".. then where does that leave America? we have the most affluent christian population in the world, but by Gods standards we are the most idolatrous nation in existance aswell.. so which is it? that is why Babylon is the great harlot, who is an apostate nation who forsakes God and pursues idols made with our own hands... its all their in prophecy

edited* with some changes

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