REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Turns out there may be another side after all.

POSTED BY: HERO
UPDATED: Friday, October 13, 2006 06:47
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Thursday, October 5, 2006 4:22 PM

HERO


In lawschool they taught us the during a trial the prosecution presents its case. At that point it turns out that the defendent, they get a chance to present their side of the story (happens in football two...first one side gets the ball, then there's a whole other side and they get the ball too). Sometimes (although not when I'm on the case) the defense wins either because the prosecutor did not prove their case or because they were wrong all along (I sure this happens, although I don't have personal knowledge, since I'm still undefeated with juries).

Unfortunately the media, the Democratic Party, and the liberals on this board don't seem to understand that there are two sides to every story. Accusations and e-mails equals guilt, not just by the defendant, but shared by everyone he ever met. What you fail to consider is that you've decided guilt long before the charges were made...many of you decided it shortly after Florida was called for Bush in 2000.

For six years I've watched the Democrats launch attack after attack on Republicans. They've been political, professional, and often personal, but not matter how long they've always backfired. My personal favorite was Rather and the phony memos in 2006 or maybe the Wellstone funeral rants in '02.

Earlier today it was revealed that Democratic operatives have been sitting on those e-mails and IM's for months just to release them on the final day of the session and a few weeks before election...also right in the midst of a Republican rally in the polls. This explains why the story broke one day and the nationwide attack adds were on the air less then 24 hours later.

Now this:
Quote:


CLAIM: FILTHY FOLEY ONLINE CHATS WERE PAGE 'PRANK GONE AWRY'
**World Exclusive**
**Must Credit the DRUDGE REPORT**

According to two people close to former congressional page Jordan Edmund, the now famous lurid AOL Instant Message exchanges that led to the resignation of Mark Foley were part of an online prank that by mistake got into the hands of enemy political operatives, the DRUDGE REPORT can reveal.

According to one Oklahoma source who knows the former page very well, Edmund, a conservative Republican, goaded an unwitting Foley to type embarrassing comments that were then shared with a small group of young Hill politicos. The prank went awry when the saved IM sessions got into the hands of political operatives favorable to Democrats.

The primary source, an ally of Edmund, adamantly proclaims that the former page is not a homosexual. The prank scenario was confirmed by a second associate of Edmund. Both are fearful that their political careers will be affected if they are publicly brought into the investigation.

The prank scenario only applies to the Edmund IM sessions and does not necessarily apply to any other exchanges between the former congressman and others.

The news come on the heels that Edmund has hired former Timothy McVeigh attorney, Stephen Jones.



And lets not forget a certain Democratic congressman who was given a standing ovation on the House floor by Pelosi and her Democrats after being censured for having sex with a 17 year-old page.

Two sides.

My professional political analysis is that the Democrats need to offer viable policy alternatives rather then defeatism, hate, and scandal mongering. I think they have it in them to do it...unfortunately they are working very hard to purge themselves of this trait (poor Joe Lieberman).

H



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Thursday, October 5, 2006 5:06 PM

SEVENPERCENT


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Unfortunately the media, the Democratic Party, and the liberals on this board don't seem to understand that there are two sides to every story.


Please. Shovel this load of swill to someone who hasn't been living under this administration for six years. The GOP, GWB, and you, Hero, have had a "one-side is all there is" attitude going back a long way. If you're going to paint with a broad brush, try and pick a better color.

Quote:

For six years I've watched the Democrats launch attack after attack on Republicans. They've been political, professional, and often personal, but not matter how long they've always backfired. My personal favorite was Rather and the phony memos in 2006 or maybe the Wellstone funeral rants in '02.

There wouldn't be attack after attack if the supposed "moral majority" in power right now weren't a bunch of lying scum. Let's see, Plamegate, Hookergate, Foleygate, Abramoff, DeLay, the documents that actually DID exist in the Rather incident, imaginary WMD's, etc. The only thing saving their asses is Fox news and 9/11.

Quote:

Earlier today it was revealed that Democratic operatives have been sitting on those e-mails and IM's for months just to release them on the final day of the session and a few weeks before election...also right in the midst of a Republican rally in the polls. This explains why the story broke one day and the nationwide attack adds were on the air less then 24 hours later.

And that makes this about them how, exactly? How does that excuse Foley, Hastert, or Shimkus? It doesn't.

But wait, there's more idiocy to come- Here's Hero's argument:

Now this:
Quote:


CLAIM: FILTHY FOLEY ONLINE CHATS WERE PAGE 'PRANK GONE AWRY'
**World Exclusive**
**Must Credit the DRUDGE REPORT**


You quoted Drudge? A tabloid news site, who makes more retractions than PN makes conspiracy theories? Maybe you should have surfed the web a little harder first:
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Amid_questions_ABC_says_messages_cou
ldnt_1005.html

Which, not only quoting that ABC backs up its story, reveals this little gem:
Quote:

Drudge edited his headline by referring to the allegation as a "claim" after RAW STORY teased this piece.

He also added the following pieces of clarification to his story: "The prank scenario only applies to the [aforementioned] IM sessions and does not necessarily apply to any other exchanges between the former congressman and others."




Quote:

My professional political analysis
Isn't worth jack shit
Quote:

is that the Democrats need to offer viable policy alternatives rather then defeatism, hate, and scandal mongering.

Yeah - Why would they want to be like the GOP?



------------------------------------------
"A revolution without dancing is no revolution at all." - V

Anyone wanting to continue a discussion off board is welcome to email me - check bio for details.

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Thursday, October 5, 2006 5:08 PM

SEVENPERCENT



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Thursday, October 5, 2006 5:09 PM

SEVENPERCENT


How'd that happen? Triple post-y goodness.

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Thursday, October 5, 2006 5:33 PM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.


Yes, there are always two sides to the story (if not more); but, that don't mean they're always right (forgive my SereniFly speak)...



You get the gist, but here's a longer clip (the goof is at 58 seconds):



---
"What the world needs now is love, sweet love - it's the only thing that there's just too little of. What the world needs now is love, sweet love. No, not just for some, but for everyone."

Trouble-Maker in the House!

http://richlabonte.net/tvvote

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Thursday, October 5, 2006 5:46 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


It's the DEMOCRAT'S FAULT! Or Clinton's... Soros'... homosexual's. If only liberals didn't defend perversion. And he was an alcoholic.

Poor Foley. He really is just a victim.



---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

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Friday, October 6, 2006 1:20 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
It's the DEMOCRAT'S FAULT! Or Clinton's... Soros'... homosexual's. If only liberals didn't defend perversion. And he was an alcoholic.

Poor Foley. He really is just a victim.



---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.



Clearly, it's a desperate cry for help. Who knew Congressmen had such lonely lives ? There needs to be a support group for folks who find themselves in like situation. Mabye U2 can head a benefit concert and help raise awareness.


SignyM - And he was an alcoholic. You post that as if it's a bad thing. The alcoholism doesn't seem to impare the Kennedy's ( Father and Son ) from being admired and adored by the Libs. Many of Foley's friends confess they'd NEVER seen him drunk. Other than his own admission and the 1 report where a drunken Foley tried to get into the Page's dorm, there's not much to go on him being an alcoholic. Some have speculated that this alcoholism excuse is just a ploy to cover his a$$ ( no pun intended ) and make a good P.R. move. He may be an alchy, but that's not related to him lusting after Congressional pages.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, October 6, 2006 3:08 AM

SERGEANTX


Republicrats are funny. All the time bickering and never saying a damned thing. They don't even really disagree when you look closely.

But you're right Hero, there's another side. It ain't democrat and it ain't republican. Those tired old institutions have had their shot and they've blown it. Both of them. Time for a real changing of the guard if you ask me.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Friday, October 6, 2006 3:59 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Earlier today it was revealed that Democratic operatives have been sitting on those e-mails and IM's for months just to release them on the final day of the session and a few weeks before election...


Now the FBI is saying that the e-mails and IMs provided by the liberal interest group were edited for content.

H

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Friday, October 6, 2006 4:00 AM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:


Originally posted by SevenPercent:
Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Earlier today it was revealed that Democratic operatives have been sitting on those e-mails and IM's for months just to release them on the final day of the session and a few weeks before election...also right in the midst of a Republican rally in the polls. This explains why the story broke one day and the nationwide attack adds were on the air less then 24 hours later.


And that makes this about them how, exactly? How does that excuse Foley, Hastert, or Shimkus? It doesn't.



I don't think the point was to excuse Foley, Hastert, or Shimkus. I think the point was that no matter how long and loud the Dem's talk about protecting America's youth, That was not their real motive. An ugly mess where everyone seems to have a little dirt on them.


Posting to stir stuff up.

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Friday, October 6, 2006 5:09 AM

STORYMARK


Of course, when all else fails, blame the kid.

He goaded Foley into it?

Bullshit.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Friday, October 6, 2006 5:27 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Quote:

Now the FBI is saying that the e-mails and IMs provided by the liberal interest group were edited for content.
Fortunately the group has replies from the FBI which show the FBI received entire, unredacted emails. Zero, you're starting to sound desperate.

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Friday, October 6, 2006 7:02 AM

CITIZEN


Holy blatent Hipocracy Batman!

Hero talking about more than two sides!



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Friday, October 6, 2006 7:06 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

I don't think the point was to excuse Foley, Hastert, or Shimkus. I think the point was that no matter how long and loud the Dem's talk about protecting America's youth, That was not their real motive.
Oh man, now you're sounding like Democrat in the Clinton days!


---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

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Friday, October 6, 2006 7:51 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Hero, I pray to the gods you don't do your job the way you do your politics!


---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

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Friday, October 6, 2006 8:14 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Zero,
Quote:

"And lets not forget a certain Democratic congressman who was given a standing ovation on the House floor by Pelosi and her Democrats after being censured for having sex with a 17 year-old page."
Are you referring to this? (Posted in your other thread http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=18&t=24439)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerry_Studds

In 1983 Studds (D) ... and Dan Crane (R) were censured by the House of Representatives for separate sexual relationships with a minor – in Studds's case, a 1973 relationship with a 17-year-old male congressional page who was of the age of legal consent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Congressional_page_sex_scandal

He called a press conference with the former page, in which both stated that the young man was legal and consenting. Studds did not break any U.S. laws for that time, in what he and page called a "private relationship."[1] He continued to be reelected until his retirement in 1996.[2]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Crane

After his 1982 re-election, Crane was charged with having a sexual relationship ... with an underage female congressional page and was censured by the House in 1983. Crane plead guilty to the charge and issued profuse, tearful apologies. He was defeated for re-election in 1984.

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Friday, October 6, 2006 8:47 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I found nothing about a "standing ovation" by Pelosi or anyone else for the (ironically-named) Studds. Aside from being CENSURED
Quote:

when the House voted to censure Studds, on July 20, 1983, by a vote of 420-3 as the House read its censure motion aloud, Studds turned his back on the speaker and members in the chamber and ignored them. In addition to the censure, the Democratic leadership stripped Studds of his chairmanship of the House Merchant Marine subcommittee.
All of this happened before Pelosi was even elected to the House (1987). Hero doesn't make even a feeble attempt to get the facts, which is why I wonder how he does his job. Or maybe all prosecutors are just looking for conviction rates and don't really care how they get them.

EDITED TO ADD: Hero, get help. You've got some serious issues leaking out.

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

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Saturday, October 7, 2006 12:44 PM

DREAMTROVE


Foley made no bones about being gay after the scandal was published, but pretended to be a social conservative before. I think he should resign, not for being a predator or for being light in the loafers, but for being a hypocrite.

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Saturday, October 7, 2006 1:00 PM

KANEMAN


I don't get this. Are we surprised there is a gay would be child molester in government? We have all types there. A former KKK member..Senator "If he eats chicken he must die" Byrd, Barney "I will lick any member...even a KKK member"Franks, A Prez who enjoys a "vagina" cigar now and then, and any number of degenerates that we elect. No party is better than the other, they both suck...Despite this fact, we remain a great nation...Go figure...Well, it's true......

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Saturday, October 7, 2006 1:05 PM

CITIZEN


You've got nothing on Rome.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Saturday, October 7, 2006 5:45 PM

JOSSISAGOD


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
For six years I've watched the Democrats launch attack after attack on Republicans. They've been political, professional, and often personal,



Haven't the Republicans done the same thing, most recently with George W. Bush's campaign against Kerry? With basically the same results as Democats had, the result being, that the accusations back-fired on them.

In short, that's what politics is these days, one side finds ALL the dirt on the other, because, they can't find ACTUAL issues to calmly discuss.

Fe'nos Tol
JOSSIS(Most Definitely)AGOD

Self appointed Forsaken! Been on the list for a while now!
98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature.
"Look at me, I'm STUPID!" The Doctor.

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Saturday, October 7, 2006 6:58 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

In short, that's what politics is these days, one side finds ALL the dirt on the other, because, they can't find ACTUAL issues to calmly discuss.
But we do discuss issues here... or we try to.


---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

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Sunday, October 8, 2006 1:53 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by jossisagod:
In short, that's what politics is these days, one side finds ALL the dirt on the other, because, they can't find ACTUAL issues to calmly discuss.

Ahh but it's only bad when they're doing it see.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Sunday, October 8, 2006 10:46 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:



Earlier today it was revealed that Democratic operatives have been sitting on those e-mails and IM's for months just to release them on the final day of the session and a few weeks before election...also right in the midst of a Republican rally in the polls. This explains why the story broke one day and the nationwide attack adds were on the air less then 24 hours later.





Hey, we were speculating on another thread aboutsan October surprise by the R's. Looks like the Dems figured out how to play the game...

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Sunday, October 8, 2006 11:08 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Zero,

"Earlier today it was revealed that Democratic operatives have been sitting on those e-mails ..."

Since this came up again I thought I'd address it. Do you want to know who else was sitting on it all that time? F*X 'news'. AND the republican house leadership for even longer than that. Hmmm. Who to blame here ....

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Sunday, October 8, 2006 4:45 PM

SOUPCATCHER


The Republican party is the most powerful political party on the face of the earth. And, I think it could be compellingly argued, the most powerful political party in the history of the human race. One way in which they have maintained their power is to attack every criticism, no matter what. The standard method is to go after the critic, rather than responding to the substance of the criticism. For the GOP, it is far more important to be aggressive than to be accurate. From this perspective, the actions of the Republican party leadership and their enablers over the past many days (and, wrt Foley, over the past many years) have been completely predictable.

Let's look at how the e-mails came to the public attention. They were brought to the attention of the Republican leadership in the House at least a year ago. Foley having a potential problem wrt pages was nothing new. The word had been out for a number of years - among Republican leadership, among incoming Republican pages, among Republican staffers - that something wasn't quite right with the man. Rather than engage in any serious investigation the Republican leadership protected Foley, continued to allow him access to pages and even encouraged him to run for re-election this cycle. In other words, if it were up to the Republican leadership, the public would never have learned about the predatory behavior of Representative Foley.

Almost a year ago, a Republican staffer sent the e-mails to media outlets. At the very least, the St. Petersberg Times, the Miami Herald, and Fox News Channel were provided with copies of the e-mail. Beyond verifying the accuracy of the e-mails, none of those organizations went public with the information.

In July, the same e-mails were provided to CREW (Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington). That same day CREW sent the e-mails, in their entirety, to the FBI. They never heard anything back. When the FBI announced a week ago that they were beginning a preliminary investigation into Foley, CREW went public. They were immediately anonymously attacked in the Washington Post by an FBI official. Gotta love the anonymous attack.

In August, the e-mails were sent to ABC News. Brian Ross' investigative group got around to working the story towards the end of September. They confirmed the validity of the e-mails and published an on-line piece (it is interesting to note that they did not run an on-air piece). That's when the shit hit the fan. Within a day, the more graphic IMs had been sent to Ross, Foley had resigned, and the Republican leadership went on the attack.

If you remember back to the opening hours of the scandal going public, the first calls for an investigation by Republican leadership were to find out who had leaked the e-mails. They needed to know who to attack. Unfortunately for them, and fortunately for the rest of the country, they couldn't contain this scandal. Since then, the Republican leadership and those who enable them in the media have attacked in a number of different directions. Uncoordinated. Unbacked up. Doesn't matter. It's reflex now.

Mrs. Robinson provided a nice summary of some of the diverse targets (there's linkies at the original post):
Quote:

excerpted from http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2006/10/usual-suspects.html
Seven days since the Foley scandal broke, and the list of GOP-designated Official Scapegoats is already almost a dozen strong and still growing. So far, the list of possible fall guys and gals includes all the usual suspects, plus a few original ones:

The Democrats
CREW
The GOP Gay Cabal
The Catholic Church
Nancy Pelosi
Eve Ensler
Bill Clinton (yes, it's a stretch, but they couldn't walk away from it on a bet)
Booze
Porn
Tolerance and diversity training
The pages themselves

Or maybe it's nobody's fault. Apparently, if you're a Republican, this behavior can simply be considered normal. In that case: what's all the fuss about, anyway?

So far, they're only missing evolution, abortion, Al Qaida, and the International Zionist Conspiracy. Oh, yeah, and Denny Hastert and Tom Reynolds. But deflecting blame from them is the whole point of the exercise, so I doubt we'll be hearing much about them.

If you come across any more Usual Suspects to add to this list, drop 'em in the comments.

Update: Our inquiring commenters have added:

The Liberal Media and
George Soros who not only counts for himself but also the International Zionist Conspiracy.


Will the standard operating procedure of the Republican leadership work this time? Or have they gone to the well once too often? With all the advantages at their disposal, how could they fail? We'll find out in November.

* edited to add that the ABC investigation was a team effort.

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Monday, October 9, 2006 5:24 AM

STORYMARK


Bump.

...Just waiting to see if Hero grows a set and answers back...

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, October 9, 2006 6:48 AM

FELLOWTRAVELER


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Earlier today it was revealed that Democratic operatives have been sitting on those e-mails and IM's for months just to release them on the final day of the session and a few weeks before election...also right in the midst of a Republican rally in the polls. This explains why the story broke one day and the nationwide attack adds were on the air less then 24 hours later.




Come on, Hero. A vast left-wing conspiracy? I think even Democrats would agree that they're far to disorganized to pull this off... Republicans have been adeptly using this type of nasty bedroom politics for a long time, but as an example, Donna Brazile was fired from the Dukakis campaign for even suggesting that daddy Bush might have a mistress. The Democrats simply lack the experience to successfully perpetrate this ambitious a hustle. Really, nobody hits a home run their first time at bat.

And I love how my use of "The Nation" as a source was criticized, but the "Drudge Report" is a okay...

Now, for a headline from a reputable source:

"Lawmaker Saw Foley Messages In 2000"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/08/AR2006
100800855.html


Quote:

A Republican congressman knew of disgraced former representative Mark Foley's inappropriate Internet exchanges as far back as 2000 and personally confronted Foley about his communications.

A spokeswoman for Rep. Jim Kolbe (R-Ariz.) confirmed yesterday that a former page showed the congressman Internet messages that had made the youth feel uncomfortable with the direction Foley (R-Fla.) was taking their e-mail relationship.

...The revelation pushes back by at least five years the date when a member of Congress has acknowledged learning of Foley's behavior with former pages.

A source with direct knowledge of Kolbe's involvement said the messages shared with Kolbe were sexually explicit, and he read the contents to The Washington Post under the condition that they not be reprinted...



Unfortunately, the Republicans are quite deft at using the politics of distraction and fear as well. And that loon in North Korea has given them the perfect opportunity. Forget about Foley and the cover-up! Forget about Iraq! Forget about Abramoff! Run for your lives! Nuclear holocaust is imminent!

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Monday, October 9, 2006 7:38 AM

SEVENPERCENT


Quote:

Originally posted by FellowTraveler:

"Lawmaker Saw Foley Messages In 2000"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/08/AR2006
100800855.html


Quote:

A Republican congressman knew of disgraced former representative Mark Foley's inappropriate Internet exchanges as far back as 2000 and personally confronted Foley about his communications.





Awwww, c'mon, FTrav. You can't just throw out 2000 like that, because you know what that will bring out from Hero and the boys:

"B-B-B-But Clinton was still in office then!"

Which means it couldn't be the GOP's fault.

------------------------------------------
"A revolution without dancing is no revolution at all." - V

Anyone wanting to continue a discussion off board is welcome to email me - check bio for details.

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Monday, October 9, 2006 9:03 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Just waiting to see if Hero grows a set and answers back...
A set of what? Neurons? Morals?

heh heh heh

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

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Tuesday, October 10, 2006 8:00 AM

STORYMARK


Bump.

Hero's been off the board for 4 days now. This thread has turned into idiot-repellant.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, October 10, 2006 10:15 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Bump.

Hero's been off the board for 4 days now. This thread has turned into idiot-repellant.


Had a Jury trial. Still undefeated. To be honost this poor fellow was screwed by a bad defense lawyer. I actually had every piece of evidence a Prosecutor can have for an OVI trial. Video, sobriety tests, independent witnesses, BAC, admission of drinking (in many different forms, including a receipt from the bar)...His lawyer tried arguing Jury Nullification of the Ohio standards for BAC testing. I kicked her ass, her expert's ass, and then her client's ass. Bottom line, if he'd taken the deal I offered, 6 days $250. Instead she got her client 30 days and $2500 + costs, atty fees, and a couple grand for experts I got excluded from the trial.

He's a 1st year resident at the hospital...in the ER...just like on TV. Love my job.

So, what were we talking about...

H

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Wednesday, October 11, 2006 11:11 AM

FELLOWTRAVELER


Quote:

Originally posted by SevenPercent:
Which means it couldn't be the GOP's fault.



It never is...

And it's pretty amusing to me that these Republicans here will not admit defeat. Every piece of information that has been released thus far clearly demonstrates that members of the GOP leadership and caucus were aware of Foley's behavior. But the Republicans here don't address that. They just ignore the topic. They pretend nothing happened and hope the electorate will forget.

I can't blame them, however, they are taking cues from their leader. This is exactly how President Bush, the Republican legislature, and the RNC in general deals with anything that might hurt them politically. Make a few outlandish accusations (Evidence? We don't need no stinkin' evidence!) and then change the subject. Confuse the issue. Ignore the facts.

There is no other side this. Foley is a man who was hitting on children. The man is a predator that was being protected by his colleagues because his seat and vote were more valuable than the truth...


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Wednesday, October 11, 2006 11:33 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by FellowTraveler:


And it's pretty amusing to me that these Republicans here will not admit defeat. Every piece of information that has been released thus far clearly demonstrates that members of the GOP leadership and caucus were aware of Foley's behavior. But the Republicans here don't address that. They just ignore the topic. They pretend nothing happened and hope the electorate will forget.




Case in point:

Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
So, what were we talking about...



Some have shorter memories than others.

And some can't read their own threads.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, October 11, 2006 11:54 AM

CAUSAL


I'd just like to take this opportunity to thank the participants in this discussion for reminding me why I don't frequent these boards anymore.

________________________________________________________________________
Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets



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Thursday, October 12, 2006 8:09 AM

SOUPCATCHER


Quote:

Originally posted by Causal:
I'd just like to take this opportunity to thank the participants in this discussion for reminding me why I don't frequent these boards anymore.


As one of those participating in this thread, I'm glad I could be of assistance.

Anything else you'd like to add to the topic?

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Thursday, October 12, 2006 9:54 AM

FELLOWTRAVELER


Just an update. The liberal chief of staff of both Rep. Foley (R-FL) and Rep. Reynolds (R-NY) testified today before the ethics committee. Incidentally, I love how these guys get to police themselves. Is there any other industry in the country that is wholly responsible for it's own regulation? Why am I thinking something about foxes and chicken coops...

Anywho, here's the story:

"Ex-aide testifies to ethics panel about Foley"

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/10/12/foley.fallout/index.html

Quote:

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- An ex-congressional aide testified to a House ethics panel Thursday about concerns he had regarding former Rep. Mark Foley's Internet exchanges with teen congressional pages.

...However, a source familiar with the ex-aide's account said earlier Thursday that Fordham was to tell the panel that he delivered warnings to House Speaker Dennis Hastert's top aide years ago.

Fordham also planned to testify under oath that he warned more than one congressional official several times about Foley's inappropriate behavior, the source said.

Fordham, who finished his testimony Thursday afternoon, has said he issued the warnings earlier than Republican leaders have reported.

The source said Fordham was to say he notified Scott Palmer, Hastert's chief of staff, three or four years ago about a report that Foley had shown up drunk at the dormitory that houses the teenage messengers

Rep. Alexander brought the e-mail from his constituent to the attention of Hastert's office, resulting in a private warning to Foley from then-House Clerk Jeff Trandahl and Shimkus, the House Page Board chairman. Both Alexander and the teen's family have said that they did not want the issue made public and wanted the contact to stop.

Hastert and other top GOP lawmakers have said they were not previously aware of the sexually explicit instant messages between Foley and other pages. But sources familiar with the situation told CNN that Trandahl had raised alarms about Foley's contacts with the teens long before he resigned his post in November 2005.

And in a statement Tuesday, Rep. Jim Kolbe, R-Arizona, said that a young man he had appointed as a page told his office that he had received an e-mail from Foley "that made him uncomfortable." Kolbe's office said the complaint was from 2000 or 2001.



And I love the new excuse being used by the GOP's talking heads. You see, there's this all powerful gay mafia (flamers, as P. Buchanan had taken to calling them) deep inside the halls of government and they were protecting Foley. Because, as we all know, it's perfectly acceptable in the gay community to hit on underage boys and a heterosexual man would never engage in sexual congress with a girl under 18. These gays just have no morals... They need more church...

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Thursday, October 12, 2006 10:56 AM

STORYMARK


And Hero still stays quiet....


"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Thursday, October 12, 2006 1:00 PM

FELLOWTRAVELER


And look, they've broke out this old chestnut:

"Shays on Foley handling: At least no one died"

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/10/11/shays.kennedy.ap/index.html

Quote:

HARTFORD, Connecticut (AP) -- Republican Rep. Christopher Shays defended the House speaker's handling of a congressional page scandal, saying no one died like during the 1969 Chappaquiddick incident involving Democratic Sen. Ted Kennedy.

"I know the speaker didn't go over a bridge and leave a young person in the water, and then have a press conference the next day," the embattled Connecticut congressman told The Hartford Courant in remarks published Wednesday.

"Dennis Hastert didn't kill anybody," he added



Ahhh, it's Teddy's fault! I knew it! Did the Democratic party leadership cover this up (in nineteen sixty mother fg nine)? If so, they did a bang up job! And while I don't know all the facts of the Chappaquiddick incident, only what I have read online, the aide with Kennedy wasn't underage, right?

So, once again, let's confuse the issue and bring up a car accident from almost 40 years ago. That should distract the voters...

Wasn't Laura Bush involved in car accident where somebody died? And didn't both President Bush and Vice President Cheney recieve several DUIs in their youth? If Senator Kennedy's driving record is significant, why isn't theirs? Ah-ha, because it isn't significant...

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Friday, October 13, 2006 6:47 AM

STORYMARK


Bumpity.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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