REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Republicans Harass Millions of Voters

POSTED BY: SOUPCATCHER
UPDATED: Friday, November 10, 2006 13:43
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 1799
PAGE 1 of 1

Sunday, November 5, 2006 5:48 PM

SOUPCATCHER


When you've got nothing positive to run on, you lie. When even the lies don't work, you've got to try something else. The Republican Party has decided to steal a page from elementary school playgrounds. They're slapping people on the back of the head and, when that person turns around, they're pointing at the Democrats and saying, "They did it." It's like we're governed by eight-year olds.

The NRCC (the Committee dedicated to electing Republicans to the House) has paid for millions of phone calls nationwide. In many different districts, people have been getting phone calls that start out saying the call contains important information about XX (the Democrat in the race). Then there is a pause. If you wait through the pause, you get to listen to a negative phone call against the Democrat which, you find out at the end, is paid for by the NRCC. If you hang up, you get immediately called back. Many, many times. And these calls are coming in at all hours of the day and night.

These calls are illegal. They're obviously an attempt to sabotage these individual races and piss off voters. There are reports of these calls in New Hampshire, Connecticut, New York, Pennsylvania, and even Kansas. And the only reason we know about them is that voters started calling the local Democratic campaigns and complaining about the calls.

Josh Marshall, over at http://www.talkingpointsmemo , has been posting a lot about this story and is a good place to go to learn more. There's probably no chance in hell that the national media will pick up on this in time to make a difference. It's only just starting to show up in local newspapers.

So, Hero, you're a Republican party stalwart, do you support these calls? Are you proud of your party and the fact that they don't think they have a chance in this election without resorting to illegal election sabotage?


* updated on Monday 9pm pst: I've now listened to a couple different calls. From the ones I've heard, there is no pause after the introductory sentence. There's audio of an answering machine that recorded three different calls against Tammy Duckworth. They start off with the same, "Hello. I'm calling with information about Tammy Duckworth" and then proceed to list different negatives. The NYTimes has a short write-up where the audio is linked: http://tinyurl.com/ydpfsu (link requires registration - try bugmenot.com for account, or you can try username: fynyt password: fynyt which just worked for me)
Quote:

start of NYTimes article
Karyn Hollis, an English professor at Villanova University outside Philadelphia, said the same computerized calls had been ringing her telephone as often as five times a day for more than a week.

They all start with a simple, if somewhat ambiguous, statement: “Hello, I’m calling with information about Lois Murphy,” a Pennsylvania Democrat who is the challenger in one of the hottest House races. That opening sounds “kind of positive in tone,” Ms. Hollis said. But the message quickly turns negative, blasting Ms. Murphy’s political views. After she hangs up, the phone rings again later with the same message. And again. And again.

The calls are part of a telephone blitz that the Republican Party has unleashed in several dozen races that are likely to determine control of the House in Tuesday’s elections. And the repeat calls to the same homes have set off a new furor over campaign tactics, with the Democrats claiming the calls violate federal communications rules and are tantamount to harassment.

...


* updated with Washington Post link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/06/AR2006
110601103.html


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, November 5, 2006 6:10 PM

DREAMTROVE


I think there's a lot more junk coming from the democrats, at least here in NY. There's a reason the NY Dems earned the 'army of annoyance' nick in '04.

Nonetheless, I'm not happy with the GOP's immitation of this strategy for '06

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, November 5, 2006 11:34 PM

SOUPCATCHER


The big question is will anyone go to prison for the Republican party over this? The 2002 New Hampshire phone-jamming stunt that was pulled by the Republicans ended up netting James Tobin and a couple of others prison sentences. A small price to pay for a victory in the election. Tobin and crew did good work (at least as far as the Republican leadership was concerned) and they managed to protect the higher-ups who gave the orders.

It's like watching a wiseguy movie. There's always someone lower down on the ladder willing to take the fall because they know they'll be taken care of when they get out of prison.

There's also the potential that the NRCC just wracked up millions of dollars in fines in the state of New Hampshire. New Hampshire do-not-call legislation is more restrictive than the federal legislation. In New Hampshire, it is illegal to make political calls to people on the do-not-call list and each illegal call can carry a five grand fine. The federal do-not-call legislation exempts political calls. The spokesman for the NRCC was very precise in his statement that they were following federal rules. So much for states rights.

* edit to add stuff

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, November 6, 2006 12:32 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

SoupCatcher wrote:
Sunday, November 05, 2006 23:34
The big question is will anyone go to prison for the Republican party over this?



Even worse is the scum over at ACORN who have been caught, again, submitting false registration forms. Seems getting caught wasn't message enough. These guys REALLY want to cheat.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, November 6, 2006 7:28 AM

SOUPCATCHER


AURaptor,

NRCC. That's the National Republican Congressional Committee. There are only two committees more prominent in the Republican Party establishment.

And you're comparing them to ACORN?

You're also ignoring exactly how the people submitting false registration forms were caught. Temporary workers were hired to conduct voter registration. An internal audit by ACORN turned up the fraud. ACORN submitted the names of the employees and their addresses to the authorities, along with all the evidence to prosecute the case. As Geezer would say, the system worked.

You're saying that an organization catching some of its temporary workers engaging in an illegal activity and reporting them to the authorities is worse than the National Republican Congressional Committee making millions of phone calls designed to harass and mislead voters and piss them off so they don't support the Democrat?

I realize that your main goal is to distract the conversation away from what the NRCC is doing. And, in that respect, you've succeeded. So let's bring it back on the road with a simple question.

AURaptor, do you support the illegal phone calls that the NRCC is making in more than 20 congressional districts?

* edit to change number of districts and to add the following quote from a Boston newspaper article (via Talking Points Memo):
Quote:

found at http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/010847.php
Alex Burgos, NRCC spokesman, said his organization has been making calls to independent voters in the state's Second Congressional District since Monday and would continue to do so. . . .

"We are a federal organization campaigning about a federal race," said Burgos. "We feel that New Hampshire law does not apply to what we are doing."


* another addition... The NRCC has been paying for these calls for a while. Here's an article from November 1st out of Illinois.
Quote:

from http://www.pioneerlocal.com/barrington/news/120568,ba-chrobocalls68-11
0206-s1.article

Rozanne Ronen, a Barrington resident, got the call -- "Hi. I'm calling with information about Melissa Bean ..."

Then she got the call again and again and 18 more times, making for a total of about 21 calls since October 24.

"They are very annoying," Ronen said.

Pat Vockeroth, of Mount Prospect, received the calls too -- "Hi. I'm calling with information about Tammy Duckworth ..."

"If you only listen to the first sentence, you think they are from the Duckworth campaign," she said.

But the calls aren't paid for by Bean, Duckworth or even the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, they are paid for by the National Republican Congressional Committee.

...


The first instinct of the NRCC, of course, was to blame it on their contractor for that particular state. But since the same type of phone calls are being used in at least 18 other districts in many different states well ... I wouldn't hunt with that dog.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, November 6, 2006 8:28 AM

STORYMARK


And the sad little raptor gets shot down again.

I have a feeling tomorrow's going to be a bad day for the NeoCon shills.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, November 6, 2006 9:57 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
And you're comparing them to ACORN?

You're also ignoring exactly how the people submitting false registration forms were caught. Temporary workers were hired to conduct voter registration. An internal audit by ACORN turned up the fraud. ACORN submitted the names of the employees and their addresses to the authorities, along with all the evidence to prosecute the case. As Geezer would say, the system worked.



Soup, would you mind a cite for the info on the ACORN audit? All I can find when I google 'ACORN registration audit' (aside from the mass of blogs) is news reports of election commissions in Wisconson, Missouri and a few other places complaining of false registrations by ACORN, and ACORN administrators claiming they were "honest mistakes" by "overzealous employees".

"Keep the Shiny side up"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, November 6, 2006 10:02 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
So, Hero, you're a Republican party stalwart, do you support these calls? Are you proud of your party and the fact that they don't think they have a chance in this election without resorting to illegal election sabotage?


Those are loaded questions and can't be answered fairly. So I'll digest the gist of your complaint and deal with it issue by issue.

Are the telemarketing calls legal? Thats a good question. As you know we all signed up for the 'Do Not Call' registry that ended telemarketing as we knew it. Political telemarketing was specifically excluded from the authorizing legislation (along with charities). Legal, yes.

What about the repeat calling? No. Such calls are telephone harrassment and are crimes in most jurisdictions, much the same as a disgruntled ex-girlfriend calling at all hours because she can't live without your sweet sweet love.

Repeat calling, is it really happening? Liberal bloggers and activists say yes, reputable news sources say...nothing. Until I hear first hand evidence from reputable sources I'll assume that these reports belong right next to the ones about Bush and the Jews planting explosives to bring down the WTC on 9/11.

Do I support repeat calling? No. Its illegal. Don't support it...except for PirateNews, he deserves it and nobody would believe him.

Do I support telemarketing as a political tool? No. Calls piss people off. Our Mayor makes us call every fracking person in the City to ask if they support the Mayor and if we can put a sign in the yard (in Ohio most signs win, voting comes second). One call, one question, local volunteers, thats ok...although it pisses me off to have to work the phones. Its when we call again to pester the undecided voters that I threw a flag (and got voted down and forced to call anyway). We won, kept job. But national corporate telemarketing, no no no. Bad idea. Its like your own personal negative add, just for you and in case you somehow missed the adds all over TV and Radio.

Are Republicans to blame? Yes...and the Democrats too. As we speak hundreds of suburban Republican voters are being called and urged to vote for or against someone or something...and hundreds of urban Democratic voters are being called to do the opposite. Blaming Republicans for this is like blaming them for the negative TV adds. Both sides use all the tricks to some degree.

Do the Republicans do it more? Yes. Only because we have more money and don't realize how much it pisses people off.

H

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, November 6, 2006 10:30 AM

SOUPCATCHER


Geezer,

Here's a link to the local paper's article: http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/15906212.htm

The author simply repeats an ACORN press release concerning how the four people were caught. There's nothing on the US Attorney's page related to this case (they don't have news releases for the month of November).

I do wish there was more information out there about this case, but that's all I could find. Since there didn't appear to be any divergent statements from the official players (election directors, US Attorney, ACORN), at least as far as how the investigation started, it seemed like a decent assumption.



Hero,

Thanks for the answers. There were two aspects of the calls that were problematic from a legal perspective. In New Hampshire, the do-not-call registry is more restrictive than the federal one and excludes political advertising. Also, there is no indication at the start of the call who the call is from, which goes against FCC regs.

More generally, I agree with you that phone calls attempting to convince a voter to support a candidate don't seem to make sense. However, phone calls attempting to turn a voter off about an opposing candidate make a little sense. And, phone calls that pretend to be from a candidate and repeatedly call back and piss off voters make a lot of sense.

In terms of media coverage, I think we probably won't see any national coverage before the election. I included a link to a local newspaper article in my last post. The Boston Globe is starting to write about this and there was an article in a Philadelphia newspaper. That's about it.

* edit to change SOS to election directors

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, November 6, 2006 10:46 AM

WHIMSICALNBRAINPAN


I have to say, I am a registered independent and I am getting equal amounts of harassment from both sides. I now answer my phone: "WHAT!"

"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." http://whimsicalnbrainpan.blogspot.com/

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, November 6, 2006 11:11 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Whimsicalnbrainpan:
I have to say, I am a registered independent and I am getting equal amounts of harassment from both sides. I now answer my phone: "WHAT!"



I answer mine in a really deep voice: "Go for Blaine" like that guy on The Unit.

Its confusing, since my names not Blaine.

H

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, November 6, 2006 11:31 AM

SOUPCATCHER


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:

Originally posted by Whimsicalnbrainpan:
I have to say, I am a registered independent and I am getting equal amounts of harassment from both sides. I now answer my phone: "WHAT!"



I answer mine in a really deep voice: "Go for Blaine" like that guy on The Unit.

Its confusing, since my names not Blaine.

H


I have yet to get a call from a real live person. As soon as I hear that it is a recording I hang up. (* edited to add: Okay, I just got a recorded message that I actually listened to all the way through. Not because I agreed with the call, it was for someone I'm not voting for, but because it was Clint Eastwood! I just liked listening to his voice ).

When I was out walking a precinct in the neighboring district people had complaints about the number of recorded calls they were getting. They were really ticked. However, nobody was rude about me knocking on their door on a Saturday afternoon. Some politely told me they were busy and I thanked them for their time and left.

I'd be pissed, too, if I was getting the number of automated calls that these people were reporting.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, November 6, 2006 2:43 PM

CARTOON


I wonder if having a "listed" (as opposed to "unlisted") telephone number would make a difference. I know that most telemarketers probably just use computerized-dialers which randomly run through numbers. But, these may be different, since they seem to be targeting people from particular parties.

I've always been registered to vote, but my telephone number is unlisted. Thus far, I've not received any calls from candidates (or anyone associated with a candidate) -- while my mother (with a listed phone number, in a neighboring town) seems to be getting pestered incessantly.

I have been polled twice in the past year, but to date, haven't received a single political call.

I'm grateful, but suddenly feeling overlooked.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, November 9, 2006 10:31 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


I just thought I'd plunk this here.

I really wonder why George Allen conceded so quickly. He was revving up for a recount, then suddenly 'folded like a cheap suitcase'. I keep thinking Warner told him - lookit, idiot. Ixnay on the ecountray. You got more votes counted than you should'av. We really don't want 'em poking through the elections.

Any thoughts?

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, November 10, 2006 3:45 AM

SIMONWHO


Perhaps this thread should now be retitled "Millions of Voters Harass Republicans".

Nice also to see Bush and Rumsfolded being so charming about democracy in action, calling voters stupid and having defective values.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, November 10, 2006 4:08 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
We really don't want 'em poking through the elections.


Well, you can only easily phoney an election by 10-20%, and that means if the vote ain't close, you're wasting your time at best, and leaving prints for nothing at worst. They'd probabably be shooting for 'best'.

Chrisisall

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, November 10, 2006 7:52 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1553682,00.html
Quote:

The exit poll data that will be used by the media on Election Day comes from one source: the National Election Pool (NEP). The NEP is a consortium of six news organizations: the Associated Press, CNN and the news divisions of ABC, CBS, Fox and NBC. It was created in 2003, after a previous consortium of the same news organizations, the Voter News Service (VNS), failed to provide accurate exit poll data in both the 2000 and 2002 general elections.

The main difference between the two consortiums is that the NEP employs two outside consulting firms — Edison Media Research and Mitofsky International — to conduct the actual exit polls. (The AP still compiles county-by-county voting results.)

... Because of the online (EARLY) leak, "it became widely believed from about 3 p.m. to 7 p.m that John Kerry was ahead," ...

But the quarantine, it is hoped, will prevent the MISTAKES of 2004.

In 2004 the FINAL exit polls still called the election for Kerry - in Florida, Pennsylvania and Ohio (key states) as well as several other states. It was those final polls' (brief) appearance on the internet that gave credence to the idea that the elections had been manipulated. Because in all cases, 2-4% Kerry leads conflicted with 2-4% Kerry losses in the vote. The original FINAL exit polls were later scrubbed and replaced with 'official' exit polls. Those polls were noted to have been 'corrected' to reflect the 'vote'.

BTW, what do these faggots think we are anyway? Do they think no one remembers what really happened in 2004? Is that why they feel they can so blatantly lie about what happened a mere two years ago? The EARLY data wasn't the issue, it was the FINAL data that statisticians were analyzing. The FINAL data that was scrubbed ASAP. Thank fate for the internet and the google cache. Sure it makes getting the news a do-it-yourself job, but at least there's some way to show up these lying sacks of crap for what they are.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, November 10, 2006 11:53 AM

SOUPCATCHER


Well the Feds in Virginia are investigating vote-suppression phone calls and that investigation should continue no matter if the vote counting stops. Unless they canned the investigation. I haven't heard anything about it since election day.

I was happy to see a strong proponent of open-source software for voting machines elected as Secretary of State here in California. No matter what happens in the rest of the country, it looks like our election process is about to improve.

I wanted to kind of do a post-mortem on the robo calls. It's hard to say how effective they were. Ended up there were two companies contracted by the NRCC that did these types of calls. There were hundreds of thousands of calls paid for in each district. Numerous complaints to the Democratic candidates campaign office. So we know that people were getting pissed off about these calls (and getting pissed off at the wrong party) we just don't know how many. I don't think these calls were the major factor in these races but, for races that were pretty close, the effect of these calls might have been enough to push the election one way or the other. So my prediction is, unless this practice is definitively ruled illegal and cracked down on, we should expect to see the Republican party use this tactic again next election (and, most probably, the Democratic party following suit).

Here's the list of districts where the two companies were contracted to call people. Some of these were pretty close.

Republican holds
CA-04 Doolittle R - won by 7k votes
CA-50 Bilbray R - won by 18k votes
CO-04 Musgrave R - leading by 7k votes
CT-04 Shays R - won by 7k votes
FL-13 Open R - leading by 386 votes ** (updated number)
IL-06 Open R – won by 4k votes
IN-03 Souder R – won by 15k votes
KY-02 Lewis R – won by 23k votes
KY-04 Davis R – won by 16k votes
NE-03 Open R – won by 20k votes
NM-01 Wilson R – leading by 1.5k votes
NY-25 Walsh R – won by 4k votes
NY-29 Kuhl R – won by 6k votes
PA-06 Gerlach R – won by 3k votes
VA-02 Drake R – won by 5k votes

Democratic takes/holds
AZ-05 Hayworth R - lost by 6k votes
CT-02 Simmons R - losing by 167 votes
CT-05 Johnson R - lost by 27k votes
FL-16 Foley R - lost by 4k votes
GA-08 Marshall D – won by 2k votes
GA-12 Barrow D – leading by 889 votes
IA-01 Open R – lost by 24k votes
IA-03 Boswell D – won by 11k votes
IL-08 Bean D – won by 12k votes
KS-02 Ryun R – lost by 7k votes
NC-11 Taylor R – lost by 17k votes
NH-02 Bass R – lost by 15k votes
NY-19 Kelly R – lost by 4k votes
PA-04 Hart R – lost by 10k votes
PA-10 Sherwood R – lost by 12k votes
TX-22 Open R – lost by 15k votes * (write-in candidate Sekula-Gibbs)
WI-08 Open R – lost by 7k votes


* edited to add: This isn't a definitive list of districts where the illegal robo-calls were used, by the way. Just a subset.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, November 10, 2006 12:41 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Wow. That's quite a lot of information. THANKS.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, November 10, 2006 1:43 PM

SOUPCATCHER


Thanks, Rue. I hadn't seen any follow up on this story so I decided to do some digging. Turns out, I could've just linked to this post - http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/001974.php .


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

OTHER TOPICS

DISCUSSIONS
Thread of Trump Appointments / Other Changes of Scenery...
Thu, November 28, 2024 03:51 - 48 posts
Where Will The American Exodus Go?
Thu, November 28, 2024 03:25 - 1 posts
In the garden, and RAIN!!! (2)
Wed, November 27, 2024 23:34 - 4775 posts
Russia Invades Ukraine. Again
Wed, November 27, 2024 17:47 - 7510 posts
What's wrong with conspiracy theories
Wed, November 27, 2024 17:06 - 21 posts
Ellen Page is a Dude Now
Wed, November 27, 2024 17:05 - 238 posts
Bald F*ck MAGICALLY "Fixes" Del Rio Migrant Invasion... By Releasing All Of Them Into The U.S.
Wed, November 27, 2024 17:03 - 41 posts
Why does THUGR shit up the board by bumping his pointless threads?
Wed, November 27, 2024 16:43 - 32 posts
Joe Rogan: Bro, do I have to sue CNN?
Wed, November 27, 2024 16:41 - 7 posts
Trump, convicted of 34 felonies
Wed, November 27, 2024 16:38 - 43 posts
Elections; 2024
Wed, November 27, 2024 16:36 - 4845 posts
Biden will be replaced
Wed, November 27, 2024 15:06 - 13 posts

FFF.NET SOCIAL