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"By the first quarter of 2008, subject to unexpected developments in the security situation on the ground, all combat brigades not necessary for force protection could be out of Iraq."

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Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
subject to unexpected developments in the security situation on the ground

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

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Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
subject to unexpected developments in the security situation on the ground

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That could mean anything. Anything.

Tired of being played Chrisisall

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Originally posted by Geezer:


I would hope that people reading this document would take it as a whole, rather than clipping sound-bites out of context to support their POV. I would bet, however, that this won't be the case.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
I'd like to offer that we should be sending more troops, not cutting and running...

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Originally posted by Geezer:


Edited to add:

I would hope that people reading this document would take it as a whole, rather than clipping sound-bites out of context to support their POV. I would bet, however, that this won't be the case.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:


I'd like to offer that we should be sending more troops, not cutting and running.

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Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:

"Ar you talkin' to ME?"

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Originally posted by Geezer:

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Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:

"Ar you talkin' to ME?"

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Not really.

Just reading the report's Executive Summary, I found plenty of short clips which, if taken out of context, could support most any position. It seems to be traditional in RWD for many of us to do this. I was hoping to get folk to read the whole document and form opinions, rather than just searching for validation of their pre-conceived notions.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
We know what DOESN'T work. No sense in falling back and trying that all over again.

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Originally posted by rue:
Now here we have Slick trying to claim the moral high ground saying - read it first before you shoot off an opinion. And the ppl nominally on his side have completely ignored his plea. I wonder if he'll have anyting nasty to say about that, or will he let it pass?

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Originally posted by oldenglanddry:
Even the Neo-Cons are saying lets get out of Iraq.
Is anyone surprised?
Apart from the obvious two.

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I heard some ex-servicemen (who were in Iraq) talking on the radio today, and they seemed to agree that the biggest problem with the Iraqi army (as it now stands) is that Iraqi's don't see themselves as "Iraqi's" -- but as Sunnis, Shiite, or Kurds, -- then by family clans. If this is correct, they either need to adopt a sense of national unity or divide the country. As the later option is quite drastic, the former would certainly be preferable. Although, as to how it might be achieved, I have to say I'm at a loss.

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But they don't mean it, and they ain't serious. SO, yeah, we oughtta cut and run. We've already spent too much-- another life, another dollar wasted, is too high a price.

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Speaking of appeasement, I heard Sean Hannity quote Winston Churchill on his show yesterday. I've been a big fan of Churchill's and studied him for decades, but I honestly can't remember if I'd heard this quote before.

"Appeasement is the policy of a man that feeds the alligatior, hoping that the alligator will eat him last."

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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But they don't mean it, and they ain't serious. SO, yeah, we oughtta cut and run. We've already spent too much-- another life, another dollar wasted, is too high a price.

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Sadly, I can't disagree with that comment. They don't seem to be doing the very things which are necessary to win this war, then we've got no business being there at all.

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"We believe it would be wrong for the United States to abandon the country through a precipitate withdrawal of troops and support."
-ISG page 37

"Further, adding more American troops could conceivably worsen those aspects of the security problem that are fed by the view that the U.S. presence is intended to be a long-term “occupation.” We could, however, support a short-term redeployment or surge of American combat forces to stabilize Baghdad, or to speed up the training and equipping mission, if the U.S. commander in Iraq determines that such steps would be effective. We also rejected the immediate withdrawal of our troops, because we believe that so much is at stake. On September 7, 2006, General James Jones, our NATO commander, called for more troops in Afghanistan, where U.S. and NATO forces are fighting a resurgence of al Qaeda and Taliban forces. The United States should respond positively to that request, and be prepared for other security contingencies, including those in Iran and North Korea."
-ISG page 73

"There is significant underreporting of the violence in Iraq. The standard for recording attacks acts as a filter to keep events out of reports and databases. A murder of an Iraqi is not necessarily counted as an attack. If we cannot determine the source of a sectarian attack, that assault does not make it into the database. A roadside bomb or a rocket or mortar attack that doesn’t hurt U.S. personnel doesn’t count. For example, on one day in July 2006 there were 93 attacks or significant acts of violence reported. Yet a careful review of the reports for that single day brought to light 1,100 acts of violence."
ISG page 94

RECOMMENDATION 41: "The United States must make it clear to the Iraqi government that the United States could carry out its plans, including planned redeployments, even if Iraq does not implement its planned changes. America’s other security needs and the future of our military cannot be made hostage to the actions or inactions of the Iraqi government."
-ISG page 75

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/06_12_06_iraq_study_group_r
eport.pdf

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US Ambassador to Iraq April Glaspie: "I have direct instructions from President Bush to improve our relations with Iraq. We have considerable sympathy for your quest for higher oil prices, the immediate cause of your confrontation with Kuwait. We can see that you have deployed massive numbers of troops in the south. Normally that would be none of our business."
President Saddam Hussein: "As you know, for years now I have made every effort to reach a settlement on our dispute with Kuwait. There is to be a meeting in two days; I am prepared to give negotiations only this one more brief chance. (pause) When we (the Iraqis) meet (with the Kuwaitis) and we see there is hope, then nothing will happen. But if we are unable to find a solution, then it will be natural that Iraq will not accept death."
Glaspie: "We have no opinion on your Arab - Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait. Secretary (of State James) Baker has directed me to emphasize the instruction, first given to Iraq in the 1960's, that the Kuwait issue is not associated with America."
President Saddam Hussein: (smiles)
-Videotaped meeting between Iraqi President Saddam Hussein and US Ambassador April Glaspie, July 25, 1990 (Eight days before the August 2, 1990 Iraqi Invasion of Kuwait)

Journalist 2: "You knew Saddam was going to invade (Kuwait) but you didn't warn him not to. You didn't tell him America would defend Kuwait. You told him the opposite - that America was not associated with Kuwait."
Journalist 1: "You encouraged this aggression - his invasion. What were you thinking?"
US Ambassador Glaspie: "Obviously, I didn't think, and nobody else did, that the Iraqis were going to take all of Kuwait."
-US Embassy, Baghdad, Iraq, September 2, 1990

"Military men are dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns for foreign policy."
-Sir Heinz "Henry" Kissinger Jewish Knight of the British Empire (whose BNL Bank was raided by FBI for arming Iraq), Bush Jr's choice for 9/11 Commission Coverup, quoted by Monika Jensen-Stevenson, Kiss the Boys Goodbye, Dutton, 1990, Page 97, citing The Final Days, Woodward and Bernstein (Simon & Schuster, 1976)

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