the cold hard scientific facts: 9/11 was an inside job by antimason

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

the cold hard scientific facts: 9/11 was an inside job

POSTED BY: ANTIMASON
UPDATED: Saturday, January 13, 2007 23:17
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 10852
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Thursday, January 11, 2007 11:36 AM

*Throwing a monkeywrench in the works*

So, answer me these two very simple questions.

"What, exactly, was Mohammed Atta doing on Jack Abramoffs' boat just prior to 9-11 ?"

"If, as stated, WTC 7 was taken down by controlled demolition - who placed the charges, and when ?"

Doesn't take a genius to see that the "Official Story" stinks to high heaven, and I don't think most folk buy into it anyway - the question that persists, and will continue TO persist, is the same one in any FUBAR of this nature.

"Who knew what, and when ?"

In order to find useful answers, you need useful questions, assumption serves no purpose.

-Frem

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Thursday, January 11, 2007 11:49 AM

ANTIMASON

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Doesn't take a genius to see that the "Official Story" stinks to high heaven, and I don't think most folk buy into it anyway -

so it would seem... unless you ignore all evidence of prior knowledge and complicity, otherwise then it becomes quite believable that all this happened 'out of the blue', just as the government claims

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Thursday, January 11, 2007 12:51 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
why dont you say what you really mean.. that the muslim world is a greater threat than communism and fascism ever was! you want me to believe that? show me the # of terrorist attacks, and prove to me that the RISK is proportionate with the TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS being spent right now in washington. your the fool for believing that radical Islam will ever convert the western world, thats the conspiracy theory

Ahh, how the line in the sand changes position ,once challenged. Now we're off discussing the Cold war, 40+ yrs of Soviet planned domination of the world vs the irrational ravings of a lunatic religion. Bravo. Funny how you ran away from the initial issue. Coward.

Quote:
it allows you to burry your head in the sand here in AMerica, and rest assured each night that big brother government will protect you; as it systematically removes every God given freedom allowed by the constitution. your such a socialist, you dont want a rule of law, you want mob rule..

I've yet to have a single freedom described by the Constitution which has been taken away by this Gov't. Not a single one. Socialist ? You don't even know what the definition of that word is. You accuse me of wanting 'mob rule', which is democracy. Make up your fucking mind, zealot.

Quote:
shame on you, for giving the Nazis in power the go ahead to rape the hell out of American traditions and place us in a never ending war

Name a single tradition that this administration - what you calls nazis (que laugh track ) has done away with. You can't, because no such tradition has been done away with. You're just babbling like a pathetic fool on the street corner.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, January 11, 2007 1:18 PM

CITIZEN

I said I wasn't going to come back here, but I find it hard to walk past craziness without giving a rational answer.

But first a few words from our sponsors:

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
After y2k, I made a vow to stop wasting my time on conspiracy theories and nut case claims. A brief list of claims that I won't bother even wasting my time 'looking into' -

Y2K wasn't a 'conspiracy theory', and don't bother going on about how 'nothing happened January 1st 2000'. Nothing happened because people took the situation seriously and worked to stop it. My Father was a member of the programming team that rewrote Legal and Generals code to overcome the date field problem. Much of the hype (nuclear weapons being launched for instance) was bogus, but Y2K was not.

Quote:
[[]list of conspiracy theories[]]
Global warming is 'man made' , or even remotely influenced by mankind.

You forgot one:
Bush was democratically elected.

Quote:
Stop the presses! Alert the media! Citizen and I agree 100% on something.

Now Ladies and Gentlemen, our main feature.

Now I feel it's important to address the actual issue, rather than question the one making it, so I will refrain from pointing out that a history professor hardly has the credentials to take on the people who came up with the official line, having, as he does, less credentials in physics, design and material science than I do.

Oh oops, just forget I said that.

Anyway, point one:

Quote:
Originally posted by AntiMason:
and the buildings didnt collapse after they were hit... they just burned; AND NOT AT STEEL MELTING TEMPERATURES EITHER! their were people standing outside the impact marks.. how much more 'proof' do you need. all those other floors that were perfectly intact pulvarized in a matter of seconds.. that has NEVER happened before.

Well you at least recognise that planes haven't been flown into skyscrapers like the WTCs before, but how that helps your case is beyond me, frankly.

Now maybe you can answer me a further question? Why does the steel have to melt?

A really quick really simplified lesson on materials:
You see as steels temperature increases it's tensile strength decreases, it comes from how materials work, you see in a solid atoms are tightly packed and held together with atomic bonds. As the temperature of the material increases the atoms gain energy, they become excited and start vibrating like an Italian waiter on his honeymoon. This weakens the bonds between the atoms, making them easier to break, so you see to make a beam of steel fail through heat you don't need to melt it, just reduce it's strength to the point that it's yield point (Young's constant) is lower than the materials current load. After the Young's constant a material stops deforming elastically and begins deforming plastically, because the atomic bonds have been broken.

Have you ever seen a blacksmith working on a sword? They don't melt the steel, they keep it very hot so that it is so malleable, so weak, that it can be beaten to shape.

Quote:
did the buildings collapse immediately when they were hit?? answer me that? NO

Erm, it took further material failure to fatally compromise the structure. It's clear that the initial impacts didn't demolish the buildings, though undoubtedly they severely weakened the structure around the impact site, and I suspect throughout the entire structure (note: vibrations weaken materials and joints, vibrations travel), which meant that the fire had a much weakened structure to weaken even further, then all that mass above the impact sites combined with that other great conspiracy 'gravity' combined to cause catastrophic failure. One thing to remember is it only takes one steel strut to fail to make every other steel strut more likely to fail. If the fire wasn't working on an already reduced and weakened structure it probably wouldn't have caused the buildings to collapse.

Quote:
is that jet fuel burned down (or compromised) these buildings, simultanously!? the S. TOwer actually fell faster then the N(even though it was hit last)..so how did it melt faster?

Well it didn't happen simultaneously, which you note in the next sentence, but whatever eh. Now if you notice the South Tower was hit much lower down, meaning the affected structure had a much greater load bearing from the mass above, which meant that the structure didn't have to be weakened as much before it failed. Simple, when one applies some rational thinking and a basic working knowledge of physics.

Perhaps you could tell me how the same people who masterminded the most complex conspiracy in Human history failed to remember which Tower they were supposed to knock down first?

Quote:
the Windsor Madrid building burned for 4 days at temperatures FAR EXCEEDING JET FUEL, and it NEVER COLLAPSED. if the plain didnt cause it, and the FIRE COULDNT POSSIBLE HAVE, what did??

Had the Windsor Madrid building received catastrophic damage from a massive impact at high speed and resulting explosion? Because if it hadn't its really not comparable.

Quote:
but im giving you the actual recorded data- and it doesnt match!

Actually you're telling us what the recorded data says, not offering any actual recorded data, so your statements and reality certainly don't match here.

Quote:
so whos the conspiracy theorist?

The person saying there was a massive conspiracy of a size and complexity never before known, and likely beyond the bounds of Human ingenuity? For the slow witted, you.

Quote:
tell me how 80-110 stories collapsed in 10 sec?

Erm, well we know they collapsed that quickly, someone timed it, so by implying that its impossible to collapse quickly surely you are denying reality.

You know it was noted on a thread with a similar theme recently that in controlled demolitions you have to significantly weaken the structure in order to allow the explosives to do they're job. So you tell me how all those people working in the Towers failed to notice the guys removing significant amounts of the Towers structure? Do you seriously expect me to believe that not one person in those offices said “Erm, excuse me but don't we need those support beams?”

And how do we know that the Towers only took 10 seconds to collapse anyway? We only know that when the external structure collapsed it took ten seconds. If most of the internal structure had already collapsed it makes sense that the outer walls could fall inwards at the same rate as gravity, doesn't it?

Quote:
yah.. but a 757 engine? you might want to double check that.. because a smaller, somewhat outdated American military engine is what it has been identified as.

By who, someone who does this sort of thing for a living, like a aircraft crash investigator, or Bob 'The Loony' McNutty of the Craziest crazy things on the web website?

Quote:
thats completely illogical. 'afghani cavemen can do it-government agents cant!' who has the motive??

Well motive wise 'Afghani cavemen'. But something else thats important is the fact that those cave men have little to lose, and the power of surprise and anonymity.

Quote:
terrorists feel good because they get a cheap shot in, but whos lands are in turn conquered and conquested?? who wouldnt have seen that coming?? so whats their motive?

Did you ever stop to think that was the motive? You know the US going into the Middle East post 9/11 has been the best recruiting ad ever. I can imagine posters with images of the burning two towers right now with Osama pointing out, “You're Faith needs YOU!”.

Quote:
its a far greater structured conspiracy than some terrorists hiding in caves...

Pretty much one of the identifiers for it being little more than a fevered delusion. Intricate conspiracy theories are the preserve of the Schizophrenic.

Quote:
exactly.. do you think thats never happened before? google FALSE FLAG OPERATIONS.. its a strategy that goes back to Sumeria, Babylon, Egypt- Hitlers cabal of nazis did it to the German people, stole their rights away, and when that wasnt enough(because they were behind it all), he became a dictator and coerced an entire population behind hateful rhetoric to commit genocide. its no different today, its the same M.O... "works everytime"

False Flag operations aren't this big, if they were they'd be to easy to expose.

Quote:
this is really sad... im the only one who see's through this bull shit??

Oh no, there's plenty of people who see through the bullshit here.

Quote:
and our theory also gives a better explanation for the lies of Iraq, WMDs and 'democracy'

Yes schizophrenics do have a way of constructing their theories to include every little happen stance the world over.

Quote:
thats silly. your saying a few floors of fires caused 80+ stories to implode! im saying prove it? show me the physics.. its impossible.

Try it with Jenga, take all the blocks out of the middle and see what happens, the physics in question is called gravity.

Quote:
it was Hitler and his Nazi henchmen who burned their Reichstag building, and blamed it on a political enemy, so that later he might become chancellor, enable fatherland security and all the other anti-terror like laws.. and galvanized his masses into one of the bloodiest wars ever. governments through out history have done this.. what makes you think now is any different, when the stakes are so high??

Whatever the Bush Admin would want to do, the conspiracy you talk about is beyond Human ingenuity. So the fact that Bush can barely colour in between the lines with his crayons indicates to me that it's probably beyond him too. It's not like he's the best and brightest you know.

Quote:
sure buddy.. the US government has no secrets?? wheres your proof.. as its the crux of your arguement?? (i guess you wouldnt have proof.. because it there are secrets, theyd be SECRET!) get real

You know what sorts of things governments tend to keep secret? Troop movements for one. How much they're chairs cost for another.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2535312,00.html
Oh, apparently they can't keep the chair thing secret, but I'm sure they'll have no problem with the latest Schizo-Super-Conspiracy.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Thursday, January 11, 2007 2:12 PM

ANTIMASON

dbl post

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Thursday, January 11, 2007 2:12 PM

ANTIMASON

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Ahh, how the line in the sand changes position ,once challenged. Now we're off discussing the Cold war, 40+ yrs of Soviet planned domination of the world vs the irrational ravings of a lunatic religion. Bravo. Funny how you ran away from the initial issue. Coward.

i just established your position, your theory as compared to mine: you think radical muslims will actually takeover and destroy America; i think thats a fairy tell of biblical proportions.

im willing to recognize that the greatest threats throughout history have always come from within; communism, fascism, slavery, genocide... it is always the elite of a society who subjugate, propogate, murder and condition their citizens, that out of patriotism, we need to submit all authority to a centralized power. your afraid of terrorist attacks, when the real threat is totalitarianism and authoritarianism.

Quote:
I've yet to have a single freedom described by the Constitution which has been taken away by this Gov't. Not a single one.

uhh hello, habeas corpus??? the military commissions act which Bush signed into law?? anyone, citizen or not, who breaks any state or federal law(including patriot act provisions) can be classified as an enemy combatant, or terrorist.. and denied YOUR LIBERTIES UNDER THE CONSTITUTION! and before you tell me this is for terrorists.. like the ones they cant prove are 'terrorists' at GITMO... Bush has already said, and you neonazi goosesteppers have decided aswell, that youre either 'with us or with the terrorists'. so this is the kind of fearmongering intolerant climate you are demanding.. not us

Quote:
Socialist ? You don't even know what the definition of that word is. You accuse me of wanting 'mob rule', which is democracy. Make up your fucking mind, zealot.

what is Bush establishing in Iraq?? a democracy right? democracy IS MOB RULE! and whether they govern for the majority or the minority, that form of government is socialist by nature. you dont even recognize that America is no longer a republic, but a highly manipulated, fascist democracy of mob rule

Quote:
Name a single tradition that this administration - what you calls nazis (que laugh track ) has done away with. You can't, because no such tradition has been done away with. You're just babbling like a pathetic fool on the street corner.

NATIONAL SOVEREIGHNTY! these pathetic traitor elitists that you so sheepishly protect, out of ignorant loyalty.. sold the middle class out through the Free trade agreements... and Lord Bush signed, without congressional oversight, the SPP agreement, to unite Canada the US and mexico, under one common economic authority known as the AMerican Union; and they have a new currency on the way too, even more worthless and indebted than the present. giving AMerica over to foreign nations is treason.. a far greater crime than any act of terror, but youll conveniently shut up about that, because you insist on being a neocon coolaid drinker

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Thursday, January 11, 2007 2:53 PM

FLETCH2

Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:

i just established your position, your theory as compared to mine: you think radical muslims will actually takeover and destroy America; i think thats a fairy tell of biblical proportions.

"Taking over America" is not an immediate part of the radical Muslim agenda, the establishment of a unified calipate in the middle east is step one. America is item 3 or 4 in the list. This is the problem, the US is very dependent of foreign oil most of which comes from Muslim countries. Now if the terrorist la-la land dream goes the way they want and they get control of it a number of things can happen.

1) They could just cut the US off. That wouldn't cripple the US because they can buy it elsewhere but the cost will be prohibitive. Look at the problems Europe is having with Russia as a foretaste of that scenario.

2) They can take the money they make from oil and plough it into schemes that would threaten the US militarily, getting the bomb is so much easier if you have the money to pay for it. In addition the American war machine is fuel hungry so controlling Americas oil puts America on a leash.

3) They can use the money to become a cultural threat to the US. Part of the success of Wahabi Muslim expansion is the use of a Muslim's religious obligation to give to charity to spread the message. The Saudi's do this in places like Pakistan by funding schools. There you have the choice, your kid goes to a Wahabi Madrass to be educated or he gets no education. While he is there though he's being radicalised. Imagine that happening in Indonesia radicallising the biggest Muslim nation on earth. Or in Africa, or in south america or even in the US? Could happen.

Quote:

im willing to recognize that the greatest threats throughout history have always come from within; communism, fascism, slavery, genocide... it is always the elite of a society who subjugate, propogate, murder and condition their citizens, that out of patriotism, we need to submit all authority to a centralized power. your afraid of terrorist attacks, when the real threat is totalitarianism and authoritarianism.

Nice to see at least some brain cells are working.

Quote:

Quote:
I've yet to have a single freedom described by the Constitution which has been taken away by this Gov't. Not a single one.

uhh hello, habeas corpus??? the military commissions act which Bush signed into law?? anyone, citizen or not, who breaks any state or federal law(including patriot act provisions) can be classified as an enemy combatant, or terrorist.. and denied YOUR LIBERTIES UNDER THE CONSTITUTION! and before you tell me this is for terrorists.. like the ones they cant prove are 'terrorists' at GITMO... Bush has already said, and you neonazi goosesteppers have decided aswell, that youre either 'with us or with the terrorists'. so this is the kind of fearmongering intolerant climate you are demanding.. not us

Err No. That isn't what it does at all. US Citizens retain the right of Habeas Corpus, it was not suspended as it was during the Civil War. What has changed is that none Americans captured on US soil no longer have that protection. Imagine an American and a none citizen are picked up on the same charges. The American will be prosecuted in accordance with US law while the none citizen has real problems. What this does is remove the right of the none citizen to seek redress through the US court system as has been the case previously.

Quote:

Quote:
Socialist ? You don't even know what the definition of that word is. You accuse me of wanting 'mob rule', which is democracy. Make up your fucking mind, zealot.

what is Bush establishing in Iraq?? a democracy right? democracy IS MOB RULE! and whether they govern for the majority or the minority, that form of government is socialist by nature. you dont even recognize that America is no longer a republic, but a highly manipulated, fascist democracy of mob rule

NO!

I really don't want to do this for the 50th time. Democracy is any system where the people can elect their leaders. After that there are various sub forms. In a true democracy you are correct there is a risk of mob rule since any large majority can in theory elect a leadership that obeys the will of the mob to the detriment of the minority. All modern democracys are variations of a represenstative democracy, where the will of the people is abstracted to some degree in teh formation of the government. You don't vote directly for bills being tabled, you elect a representative who votes for you. That representative agrigates the opinion of the whole of the area that elected him and thus represents the wishes of his electorate and not just your wishes or that of your friends. Since the country is diverse the risk that one faction could gain absolute control of government are slim.

Socialism is a political/economic system that dictates the public ownership of assets and means of production. It has never been applied as a "pure" system and is largely viewed as unworkable.

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Thursday, January 11, 2007 2:57 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

am, you should invite piratenews over for some gay sex and then order a pizza.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, January 11, 2007 3:01 PM

FLETCH2

Are we sure he isn't Piratenews?

So opinion time, is AntiMason a rightwing nutjob "militia" type or some form of gibbering loony lefty? Discuss...

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Thursday, January 11, 2007 4:54 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Fletch2:
Are we sure he isn't Piratenews?

So opinion time, is AntiMason a rightwing nutjob "militia" type or some form of gibbering loony lefty? Discuss...

I'm voting for just plain "nutjob...gibbering loony". Right or left doesn't even enter into it. If I thought that way, and ever got rational enough to realize that I did, it would be "bullet to the brainpan" or "electroshock, please" time.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Thursday, January 11, 2007 4:58 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
am, you should invite piratenews over for some gay sex and then order a pizza.

This is an insult to both the gay sex and pizza loving communities. As a pizza lover, I demand an apology.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Friday, January 12, 2007 2:54 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
am, you should invite piratenews over for some gay sex and then order a pizza.

This is an insult to both the gay sex and pizza loving communities. As a pizza lover, I demand an apology.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

Everyone loves pizza, so I felt it the safe route. Besides, had I said 'order Chinese food' instead, no telling what non stop conspiracy nonsense that would have stared.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, January 12, 2007 5:02 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Quote:
Originally posted by Fletch2:
Are we sure he isn't Piratenews?

So opinion time, is AntiMason a rightwing nutjob "militia" type or some form of gibbering loony lefty? Discuss...

Well, I think it is clear to most people that this 9/ll conspiracy stuff is a paranoid delusion, but the motivation of this and perhaps all such wacky conspiracy theories has always been somewhat puzzling to me. It’s not clear to me that Antimason has either a Left or a Right wing political opinion, but rather that he is suffering from an acute disassociative coping hysteria, in which he substitutes a delusion for reality. I don’t think it is as simple as Antimason being a loon, recent posts notwithstanding. In other instances, he has never appeared to me to be generally delusional, like piratenews. It’s a very specific delusion. Fletch2 had a post on the motivation of conspiracy theories earlier that I thought was astute. Antimason said this earlier, and I think it speaks to his state of mind:

“[[]M[]]y fantasy keeps me vigilante(sic) against lies that you are all too willing to endulge(sic).”

In other words, his fantasy is a mechanism specifically designed to hide him from a reality he is psychologically unable to accept.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Friday, January 12, 2007 7:37 AM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Well, I think it is clear to most people that this 9/ll conspiracy stuff is a paranoid delusion, but the motivation of this and perhaps all such wacky conspiracy theories has always been somewhat puzzling to me. It’s not clear to me that Antimason has either a Left or a Right wing political opinion, but rather that he is suffering from an acute disassociative coping hysteria, in which he substitutes a delusion for reality. I don’t think it is as simple as Antimason being a loon, recent posts notwithstanding. In other instances, he has never appeared to me to be generally delusional, like piratenews. It’s a very specific delusion. Fletch2 had a post on the motivation of conspiracy theories earlier that I thought was astute. Antimason said this earlier, and I think it speaks to his state of mind:

“[[]M[]]y fantasy keeps me vigilante(sic) against lies that you are all too willing to endulge(sic).”

In other words, his fantasy is a mechanism specifically designed to hide him from a reality he is psychologically unable to accept.

I believe the term you are looking for is Paranoid Schizophrenia.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Friday, January 12, 2007 9:21 AM

ANTIMASON

Quote:
Finn wrote-
In other words, his fantasy is a mechanism specifically designed to hide him from a reality he is psychologically unable to accept.

how does my "delusion" hide me from reality?? you think there is no government corruption? that the government HAS NEVER BEFORE IN HISTORY COMMITTED ACTS OF TERROR AGAINST AMERICANS?? it sounds like you are unable to accept reality- im not shitting my pants over 'evil Muslims' half way acrossed the world

the belief all of you here hold is that the government ALWAYS TELLS YOU THE TRUTH; so the largest conspiracies in US history, like Abe Lincolns assasination, the establishment of the Federal Reserve(and IRS), the creation of the CIA and UN... Kennedys assassination.. i suppose you guys know the truth about these issues.. and their were NOOO alterior motives??

im the ignorant loon.. when you guys havent even looked into the history of the Federal Reserve, or the CFR, or the creation of the CIA.. all these un-american instituions that say in their own documents that they want a one world government. over time, i will only be further vindicated, and you guys will be left scratching your heads wondering 'what in the hell is going on?" without taking somewhat of a conspiratorial view of history, you will never be equipped to interpret reality

you all believe that the only truth is that which is covered by mainstream news media.. so all alternative views of history are crazy and paranoid; even when the facts fit better than the "random occurance of events" view that is so easy for you all to buy into

so when we go to war with IRan, we recieve another terror attack and lose more liberties, America gets pushed into an American union, the dollar crashes and they introduce the AMero.. or they give you an ID card with an RFID CHIP.. and political leaders start demanding a global UN government body= i guess it will all have been a coincidence, just a random occurance with no political forethought or pursuasion

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Friday, January 12, 2007 9:58 AM

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:
this here is basically the video that removes all speculation and debate (
although certainly not the first and only)
and i challenge everybody to watch this video and still affirm (if not completely dissassociate)your allegience with the "establishment"

its no longer up for debate.. the governments account, as summarized by the 9/11 commission report, is SCIENTIFICALLY AND PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE! the only conclusion to be drawn from the evidence is that it was not arab "terrorists" with 'alqaeda'

if you want to debate me on this issue... specifically the events of that day, bring it on! Hero, Auraptor, Geezer...and those of you on the fence:

i want it to be clear by the end of this thread that only elements within the US government could have orchestrated 9/11. the relevence of this subject is so great that it alters all that is generally accepted among corporate mainstream media and popular history. unless you include the coverup of 9/11 as a premise to your worldview, along with its subsequent ramifications.. you will forever be stuck within the controlled paradigm of corporate media and its banking slavemasters

Oh sweet Jesus tell me you are joking! This is ridiculous. If you are so sure that the government would deliberately kill all those people - then MOVE TO ANOTHER COUNTRY. Piss or get off the pot dude. And take your meds.

----
Bestower of Titles, Designer of Tshirts, Maker of Mottos, Keeper of the Pyre

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original

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Friday, January 12, 2007 11:55 AM

SAHARA

Quote:
Originally posted by SevenPercent:
The steel didn't need to melt, it just needed to weaken and bend. Hot metal does that. All that weight on a bent frame, and you can't believe it fell? No, it never happened before, because a plane hadn't hit a Goddamn building before!

I'm not trying to discount anything you have to say, sevenpercent, since you do sound refreshingly rational.

Actually, a large plane did crash into a New York City skyscraper before:
http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=179

July 29, 1945

The plane was smaller and slower and the building more solidly built. Did lots of damage, though.

I love how the conspiracy guys are just trying to show all of us sheep 'the truth'. That's very altruistic of them. No matter what facts there are to the contrary.
I have no doubt people in the gov't have exploited the 9/11 tragedy for their own political gain, but to have caused it? That's quite a stretch.

Sahara
Blackbird fly into the light of the dark, black night.

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Friday, January 12, 2007 1:10 PM

SEVENPERCENT

Interesting link, Sahara. I did not know that. And thanks for the rational comment - then again, I'm arguing with Antimason, a person only slightly more sane than Piratenews.

What I found interesting from the link, a fact that strengthens the "non-loony" case, was this:
had already started work when their offices were suddenly engulfed an an explosion of flaming, high-octane fuel. The burning gasoline traveled through hallways, stairwells, and elevator shafts, reaching as far as four floors below the point of impact
And this: A publicist working in the offices was propelled out of a window from the explosion

All that burning jet fuel, pouring down the inside of the building. How much more jet fuel did a fully tanked modern airliner carry? Staggering thought. And the guy getting blown out; people are surprised that things like licenses and papers survived. Why wouldn't they? The force of the blast throws anything light away from it (including people).

------------------------------------------
"A revolution without dancing is no revolution at all." - V

Anyone wanting to continue a discussion off board is welcome to email me - check bio for details.

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Friday, January 12, 2007 1:23 PM

ANTIMASON

why were the planes only at 20% capacity that day.. when they ordinarily would have been at 75%? same for the towers, not to mention the exact impact zones.... and even the Pentagon, being coincidentally under construction where it was hit. wake up.. there was a lot more that happened on 9/11 than just some hijackings.. like a whole mess of government and corporate forknowledge.

but i guess maybe WW3 and a global government sounds appealing to you all

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Friday, January 12, 2007 4:24 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

AM

Your scenario is, unfortunately, just another false dilemma. Either you trust the government completely OR you accept the entire conspiracy theory ! Most people are very much in between those choices.

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Saturday, January 13, 2007 12:43 AM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:
but i guess maybe WW3 and a global government sounds appealing to you all

Not as appealing as Lithium carbonate should sound to you

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Saturday, January 13, 2007 11:34 AM

ANTIMASON

dbl post

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Saturday, January 13, 2007 11:38 AM

ANTIMASON

Quote:
originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion-

Oh sweet Jesus tell me you are joking! This is ridiculous. If you are so sure that the government would deliberately kill all those people - then MOVE TO ANOTHER COUNTRY. Piss or get off the pot dude. And take your meds.

ahh.. the ol "America: love it or leave it" arguement.. very original. if i dont choose to love it, in its current rogue fascist form.. does that make me antiAmerican? unpatriotic? how do you know that AMerica today even resembles the intentions of our nations founders? a republic requires endless vigilance to maintain... perhaps youve never heard the sentiment that 'dissent is the greatest form of patriotism'?

but then again in current nazi fascist America, one must 'never tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories' about the governemnt... so its probably perferable for you to be told what to think and how to feel

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Saturday, January 13, 2007 10:18 PM

FUTUREMRSFILLION

I don't need people to tell me what to think, I also don't need a boogeyman behind every door to get me through the day.

----
Bestower of Titles, Designer of Tshirts, Maker of Mottos, Keeper of the Pyre

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original

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Saturday, January 13, 2007 11:17 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"one must 'never tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories'"

That's about right. Why tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories? Really, it just shows a lack of imagination.

Make up some plausible ones, instead. Use Occam's Razor if you like. Take an event like 9/11 and create the SIMPLEST LEAST COMPLICATED conspiracy you can imagine. Then sell that.

I bet you get more converts that way.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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