REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

2004 Election rigging conviction in... Ohio

POSTED BY: HARDWARE
UPDATED: Friday, January 26, 2007 10:02
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 2101
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Thursday, January 25, 2007 4:39 PM

HARDWARE


http://www.centralohio.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/BE/20070125/NEWS
01/701250313/1002


So, for all those folks on this board who kept saying; "There was no election tampering in Ohio."
Looks like there was enough tampering to get felony convictions on two election officials.


The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

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Thursday, January 25, 2007 4:54 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


"...[[]Special prosecutor Kevin Baxter[]] insisted the employees broke the law when they worked behind closed doors three days before the public Dec. 16, 2004, recount to pick ballots they knew would not cause discrepancies when checked by hand so they could avoid a lengthier, more expensive hand recount of all votes."


Evidently, the tampering wasn't done to promote one candidate over the other, which is what was actually being asserted by critics of the election results in Ohio, but rather to cut a possible corner to a lengthy hand count. I wouldn’t call that rigging the election. I would call that tempering with votes. Not good, but not a malicious attempt to affect the outcome either.



Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Thursday, January 25, 2007 5:02 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hmmm...

Since the recount was being conducted to verify that the correct candidate had won...

And since the recount was rigged to ensure that the first count looked good...

Then the initial issue, (did the right guy win?) is still not settled.

They may not have merely been lazy. They may have furthered the obscurement of any original miscount.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Thursday, January 25, 2007 5:11 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
They may not have merely been lazy. They may have furthered the obscurement of any original miscount.

I don’t think these two points are mutually exclusive. Clearly, if we can believe what this article is saying, the actions of these elections workers furthered the obscuration in the results, but that doesn’t mean they did so maliciously. According to the prosecutor, it was done to avoid a “lengthier, more expensive hand recount of all votes.” That suggests to me that there were other reasons then the predictably assumed malice.



Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Thursday, January 25, 2007 5:26 PM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.


http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_
stolen/1


From June '06. I haven't read it yet, but thought I'd put it in the mix.

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Thursday, January 25, 2007 5:28 PM

FIVVER


And when the real recount was done here's what was found:

Quote:


Special prosecutor Kevin Baxter, who was brought in from Erie County to handle the case, did not claim the workers' actions affected the outcome of the election - Kerry gained 17 votes and Bush lost six in the county's recount.




And that's out of 600,000 votes cast in the county.

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Thursday, January 25, 2007 6:26 PM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.


Quote:

Voting, as Thomas Paine said, ''is the right upon which all other rights depend.'' Unless we ensure that right, everything else we hold dear is in jeopardy.


Between the exit polls, Kenneth Blackwell, the Mighty Texas Strike Force, the registration barriers, long lines, faulty machines, statistics in "the twelve suspect counties," the recount "terrorist" debaucle, and other issues in Ohio 2004, I am very afraid.

It is not so much the foul play that may have swung it to Bush that bothers me, but merely that there is so much evidence of foul play to begin with. I would be equally as afraid if it was Kerry who had benefited instead of Bush - or if some anonymous third party candidate had won (of course, that would have shocked us all).

The other troubling aspect to it is how surreal this all is. Why haven't we heard more about this? If there wasn't so much evidence, this could be the greatest tinfoil hat conspiracy theory ever.

But, this happened. What do we do now?

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Thursday, January 25, 2007 6:48 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


"If there wasn't so much evidence, this could be the greatest tinfoil hat conspiracy theory ever."

You clearly need to read some of PirateNews' stuff so that you can reclaim perspective on 'greatest tinfoil hat conspiracy theories.'

--Anthony


"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Thursday, January 25, 2007 6:52 PM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.


Oh, please, no - the images he posts are bad enough as is. And, I suppose I should clarify - the greatest, most believable, tinfoil hat conspiracy theory every.

Nevermind...

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Thursday, January 25, 2007 7:12 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


That's why Skull & Boner Jew Kerry/Kohn masterbated in coffins and ate off Jew Adolf Hitler Shicklegruber Rothschild's silverware at the Tomb, so he'd take a dive and refuse all recounts. Jew Bush and Dracula's cousin, billionaire "Kerry", was paid a $51-million bribe in "leftover campaign contributions", which should have been spent on recounts. Instead the Green Party had to pay for Kerry's recount in Ohio. Jr Bush arrested the nominees from the Green Party and Libertarian Party, for daring to enter the city of the royal, er, "presidential" "debates".

Quote:


"The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything."
-Joseph Stalin, a/k/a Joseph Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili, convicted bank robber and genocidal dictator of Communist Russia, ally of British Empire and USA, who murdered one of his 3 "Jewish" wives, suspected Khazarian non-Semitic "Jew", murdered by his "Jewish" doctors when he finally turned on his "Jewish" Commies


Tennessee Supreme Court fires entire Knox County Gangsta Govt for Election Fraud

WATE TV
1/12/2007

In a decision released Friday afternoon, the Tennessee Supreme Court ruled that term limits do apply to Knox County's elected officials. This means that elected officials who have served more than two terms are no longer eligible to serve in office. Knox County voters approved term limits in 1994. Those affected by the term limits ruling include Sheriff Tim Hutchison, Register of Deeds Steve Hall, Trustee Mike Lowe, County Clerk Mike Padgett and commissioners John Griess, John Mills, Mark Cawood, Larry Clark, Billy Tindell, Phil Guthe, Diane Jordan, and John Schmid. These term-limited officials will remain in office only until replacements are appointed by Knox County Commission.
www.wbir.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=41181





So our Gangsta Govt held secret meetings and hand-picked their own replacements, to keep gangstas in govt. No voting allowed. BTW, our sheriff had 6 criminal convictions for perjury while sheriff, but was never arrested, and gets a $100,000/year retirement, paid for by a $1,500/year property tax increase.

Danaher Systems, a foreign military contractor, "counts" all votes in Knox County, and loses 20,000 registered votes each "election". When the "deciding" computer "malfunctioned" in November, it "had" to be sent out of the state to be "counted". That's what gave the sheriff his new pension scheme. Why would the voters vote to double their taxes?

Make no mistake, the gangsters are now firmly in charge of USA, at all levels, the shearing is almost complete, and the sheeple are being herded into the slaughterhouse.

This is how REAL Americans deal with election fraud:

Quote:


The Battle of Athens, Tennessee

As Recently As 1946, American Citizens Were
Forced To Take Up Arms As A Last Resort
Against Corrupt Government Officials

Guns & Ammo
October 1995

On August 1-2, 1946, some Americans, brutalized by their county government, used armed force as a last resort to overturn it. These Americans wanted honest open elections. For years they had asked for state or federal election monitors to prevent vote fraud (forged ballots, secret ballot counts and intimidation by armed sheriff's deputies) by the local political boss. They got no help.

These Americans' absolute refusal to knuckle under had been hardened by service in World War II. Having fought to free other countries from murderous regimes, they rejected vicious abuse by their county government.

These Americans had a choice. Their state's Constitution -- Article 1, Section 26 -- recorded their right to keep and bear arms for the common defense. Few "gun control" laws had been enacted.

These Americans were residents of McMinn County, which is located between Chattanooga and Knoxville in Eastern Tennessee. The two main towns were Athens and Etowah. McMinn County residents had long been independent political thinkers. For a long time they also had: accepted bribe-taking by politicians and/or the sheriff to overlook illicit whiskey-making and gambling; financed the sheriff's department from fines-usually for speeding or public drunkenness which promoted false arrests; and put up with voting fraud by both Democrats and Republicans.

The wealthy Cantrell family, of Etowah, backed Franklin Delano Roosevelt in the 1932 election, hoping New Deal programs would revive the local economy and help Democrats to replace Republicans in the county government. So it proved.

Paul Cantrell was elected sheriff in the 1936,1938 and 1940 elections, but by slim margins. The sheriff was the key county official. Cantrell was elected to the state senate in 1942 and 1944; his chief deputy, Pat Mansfield, was elected sheriff. In 1946 Paul Cantrell again sought the sheriff's office.

At the end of 1945, some 3,000 battle-hardened veterans returned to McMinn County; the GIs held Cantrell politically responsible for Mansfield's doings. Early in 1946, some newly returned ex-GIs decided to challenge Cantrell politically by offering an all-ex-GI, non-partisan ticket. They promised a fraud-free election, stating in ads and speeches that there would be an honest ballot count and reform of county government.

At a rally, a GI speaker said, "The principles that we fought for in this past war do not exist in McMinn County. We fought for democracy because we believe in democracy but not the form we live under in this county" (Daily Post-Athenian, 17 June 1946, p.1 ). At the end of July 1946, 159 McMinn County GIs petitioned the FBI to send election monitors. There was no response. The Department of Justice had not responded to McMinn County residents' complaints of election fraud in 1940, 1942 and 1944.

FROM BALLOTS TO BULLETS

The primary election was held on August 1. To intimidate voters, Mansfield brought in some 200 armed "deputies." GI poll-watchers were beaten almost at once. At about 3 p.m., Tom Gillespie, an African- American voter was told by a sheriff's deputy that he could not vote. Despite being beaten, Gillespie persisted. The enraged deputy shot him. The gunshot drew a crowd. Rumors spread that Gillespie had been shot in the back; he later recovered (C. Stephen Byrum, The Battle of Athens, Paidia Productions, Chattanooga, TN, 1987; pp. 155-57).

Other deputies detained ex-GI poll-watchers in a polling place, as that made the ballot counting "Public" A crowd gathered. Sheriff Mansfield told his deputies to disperse the crowd. When the two ex-GIs smashed a big window and escaped, the crowd surged forward. The deputies, with guns drawn, formed a tight half-circle around the front of the polling place. One deputy, "his gun raised high...shouted: 'If you sons of bitches cross this street I'll kill you!'" (Byrum, p.165).

Mansfield took the ballot boxes to the jail for counting. The deputies seemed to fear immediate attack by the "people who had just liberated Europe and the South Pacific from two of the most powerful war machines in human history" (Byrum, pp. 168-69).

Short of firearms and ammunition, the GIs scoured the county to find them. By borrowing keys to the National Guard and State Guard armories, they got three M-1 rifles, five .45 semi-automatic pistols and 24 British Enfield rifles. The armories were nearly empty after the war's end. By 8 p.m. a group of GIs and "local boys" headed for the jail but left the back door unguarded to give the jail's defenders an easy way out.

Three GIs alerting passersby to danger were fired on from the jail. Two GIs were wounded. Other GIs returned fire.

Firing subsided after 30 minutes; ammunition ran low and night had fallen. Thick brick walls shielded those inside the jail. Absent radios, the GIs' rifle fire was uncoordinated. "From the hillside fire rose and fell in disorganized cascades. More than anything else, people were simply shooting at the jail" (Byrum, p.189).

Several who ventured into the street in front of the jail were wounded. One man inside the jail was badly hurt; he recovered. Most sheriff's deputies wanted to hunker down and await rescue. Governor McCord mobilized the State Guard, perhaps to scare the GIs into withdrawing. The State Guard never went to Athens. McCord may have feared that Guard units filled with ex-GIs might not fire on other ex-GIs.

At about 2 a.m. on August 2, the GIs forced the issue. Men from Meigs County threw dynamite sticks and damaged the jail's porch. The panicked deputies surrendered. GIs quickly secured the building. Paul Cantrell faded into the night, having almost been shot by a GI who knew him, but whose .45 pistol had jammed. Mansfield's deputies were kept overnight in jail for their own safety. Calm soon returned. The GIs posted guards. The rifles borrowed from the armory were cleaned and returned before sunup.

THE AFTERMATH: RESTORING DEMOCRACY

In five precincts free of vote fraud, the GI candidate for sheriff, Knox Henry, won 1,168 votes to Cantrell's 789. Other GI candidates won by similar margins.

The GI's did not hate Cantrell. They only wanted honest government. On August 2, a town meeting set up a three-man governing committee. The regular police having fled, six men were chosen to police Etowah. In addition, "Individual citizens were called upon to form patrols or guard groups, often led by a GI... To their credit, however, there is not a single mention of an abuse of power on their behalf" (Byrum, p. 220).

Once the GI candidates' victory had been certified, they cleaned up county government, the jail was fixed, newly elected officials accepted a $5,000 pay limit and Mansfield supporters who resigned were replaced.

The general election on November 5 passed quietly. McMinn County residents, having restored the rule of law, returned to their daily lives. Pat Mansfield moved back to Georgia. Paul Cantrell set up an auto dealership in Etowah. "Almost everyone who knew Cantrell in the years after the Battle' agree that he was not bitter about what had happened" (Byrum pp. 232-33; see also New York Times, 9 August 1946, p. 8).

The 79th Congress adjourned on August 2, 1946, when the Battle of Athens ended. However, Representative John Jennings Jr. from Tennessee decried McMinn County's sorry situation under Cantrell and Mansfield and the Justice Department's repeated failures to help the McMinn County residents. Jennings was delighted that "...at long last, decency and honesty, liberty and law have returned to the fine county of McMinn.. " (Congressional Record, House; U.S. Government Printing Office, Washington, D.C., 1946; Appendix, Volume 92, Part 13, p. A4870).

THE LESSONS OF ATHENS

Those who took up arms in Athens, Tennessee, wanted honest elections, a cornerstone of our constitutional order. They had repeatedly tried to get federal or state election monitors and had used armed force so as to minimize harm to the law-breakers, showing little malice to the defeated law-breakers. They restored lawful government.

The Battle of Athens clearly shows how Americans can and should lawfully use armed force and also shows why the rule of law requires unrestricted access to firearms and how civilians with military-type firearms can beat the forces of government gone bad.

Dictators believe that public order is more important than the rule of law. However, Americans reject this idea. Brutal political repression is lethal to many. An individual criminal can harm a handful of people. Governments alone can brutalize thousands, or millions.

Law-abiding McMinn County residents won the Battle of Athens because they were not hamstrung by "gun control " They showed us when citizens can and should use armed force to support the rule of law.

reposted by Jews for Preservation of Firearms Ownership
http://www.jpfo.org/athens.htm



To solve that problem of uppity slaves, fluoride (active ingredient in Prozac) from Alcoa Tennessee was dumped into the water, just like in Commie and Nazi Death Camps, to keep the slaves from revolting.




Fed woman: It's the Pax. The G-Paxilon Hydroclorate that we added to the air processors. It was supposed to calm the population, weed out aggression. Well, it works. The people here stopped fighting. And then they stopped everything else. They stopped going to work... they stopped breeding, talking, eating. There's 30-million people here, and they all just let themselves die.
(smashing down door)
(whine, wimper)
I have to be quick. About a tenth of a percent of... the population had the opposite reaction to the Pax. Their aggressor response increased beyond madness. They have become...
(smashing down door)
Well, they've killed most of us. And not just killed... they've done things.
Wash: Reavers. They made them.
Fed woman: I won't live to report this, but people have to know. We meant it for the best... to make people safer.
(Reavers growling)
God!
(Fed woman screaming)
(Reaver munching)

PAXIL HCL is an agent in a class of antidepressant medication known as selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs). It is effective and generally well tolerated and has successfully helped people treat their depression, social anxiety disorder, premenstrual dysphoric disorder, and panic disorder.
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Tangerine Dream - Thief Soundtrack: Confrontation
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/03/8912.php
http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?vid=8cd2bd0379340120e7a6ed00f2a53ee5
.1044556

www.myspace.com/piratenewsctv
www.piratenews.org


Does that seem right to you?
www.scifi.com/onair/

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Thursday, January 25, 2007 8:33 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Dammit, PN - *I* was gonna post the Battle of Athens, argh.

Beaten to the punch AGAIN...

Anyhows, if you study the actual details of the case, there seems a lot more crookery involved than just dodging a recount, and as for who pays, of course the poor guys at the end of the chain of command, hung out to dry in lieu of following up and seeing how high the rot goes.

The sentencing is a joke, and why convict the executor of an act and not the folks who ordered it ?

It still reeks, I tellya.

-Frem

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Thursday, January 25, 2007 10:07 PM

FREMDFIRMA


From = http://www.constitution.org/mil/tn/batathen_press.htm

Take note: Eleanor, mind you, packed a revolver herself, and was rather firmly pro-gun and pro-freedom, regardless of what I think of her husband.

SOURCE: The Daily Post-Athenian, Athens, Tenn., August 7, 1946; pages 1, 6.
Quote:

McMinn A Warning — By Eleanor Roosevelt

New York, Monday — After any war, the use of force throughout the world is almost taken for granted. Men involved in the war have been trained to use force, and they have discovered that, when you want something, you can take it. The return to peacetime methods governed by law and persuasion is usually difficult.

We in the U.S.A., who have long boasted that, in our political life, freedom in the use of the secret ballot made it possible for us to register the will of the people without the use of force, have had a rude awakening as we read of conditions in McMinn County, Tennessee, which brought about the use of force in the recent primary. If a political machine does not allow the people free expression, then freedom-loving people lose their faith in the machinery under which their government functions.

In this particular case, a group of young veterans organized to oust the local machine and elect their own slate in the primary. We may deplore the use of force but we must also recognize the lesson which this incident points for us all. When the majority of the people know what they want, they will obtain it.

Any local, state or national government, or any political machine, in order to live, must give the people assurance that they can express their will freely and that their votes will be counted. The most powerful machine cannot exist without the support of the people. Political bosses and political machinery can be good, but the minute they cease to express the will of the people, their days are numbered.

This is a lesson which wise political leaders learn young, and you can be pretty sure that, when a boss stays in power, he gives the majority of the people what they think they want. If he is bad and indulges in practices which are dishonest, or if he acts for his own interests alone, the people are unwilling to condone these practices.

When the people decide that conditions in their town, county, state or country must change, they will change them. If the leadership has been wise, they will be able to do it peacefully through a secret ballot which is honestly counted, but if the leader has become inflated and too sure of his own importance, he may bring about the kind of action which was taken in Tennessee.

If we want to continue to be a mature people who, at home and abroad, settle our difficulties peacefully and not through the use of force, then we will take to heart this lesson and we will jealously guard our rights. What goes on before an election, the threats or persuasion by political leaders, may be bad but it cannot prevent the people from really registering their will if they wish to.

The decisive action which has just occurred in our midst is a warning, and one which we cannot afford to overlook.



A prophetic warning indeed, given how bad it's probably going to get, and soon.

-Frem

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Friday, January 26, 2007 4:16 AM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.


http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/06/03/kennedy

A rebuttal to the article I linked above.

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Friday, January 26, 2007 5:33 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
The sentencing is a joke, and why convict the executor of an act and not the folks who ordered it ?


I agree...the whole Democratic political machine in Ohio is guilty...oops...did the article forget to mention party affiliation? Here's a hint. Cuyahoga County is home to a powerful Democratic machine. They control the Board of Elections in their area. It was their workers convicted of these crimes.

I guess none of you folk live in Ohio. The vote here was fine, I'll testify as a direct witness to that. All you can counter with is rumor and speculation.

H

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Friday, January 26, 2007 6:18 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
The sentencing is a joke, and why convict the executor of an act and not the folks who ordered it ?


I agree...the whole Democratic political machine in Ohio is guilty...oops...did the article forget to mention party affiliation? Here's a hint. Cuyahoga County is home to a powerful Democratic machine. They control the Board of Elections in their area. It was their workers convicted of these crimes.

I guess none of you folk live in Ohio. The vote here was fine, I'll testify as a direct witness to that. All you can counter with is rumor and speculation.

H



Not really. There are plenty of other who were there who witnessed things being less that "fine".

But keep cheerleading Hero. The truth is coming out, bit by bit, and your team is sliding quick.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Friday, January 26, 2007 6:20 AM

STORYMARK


Double...

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Friday, January 26, 2007 7:36 AM

SHINYED


There has never been a perfect election in the United States for all it's 230 years. These people who are so frikkin' obsessed with every single horseshit story that comes out, conspiracies, etc etc etc...you're all just rutting nuts!...Get a life! Play tennis....Go on a picnic...anything!

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Friday, January 26, 2007 9:10 AM

RIGHTEOUS9


Fivver,

the "real recount" as you put it that turned up 17 extra votes for Kerry and 6 less for bush only refers to the precounted non-randomly selected 3 percent of the vote that they already knew matched, according to what I read on the story. This preselection process was done out of the public eye, and with the very intention of "preventing an expensive recount," supposedly.

Correct me if I'm wrong. But you could hardly use that whitewashed manipulated evidence to prove that there was no massive fraud....um, there I must be wrong.

..........................

It doesn't make any sense to me....either the workers thought there was a good chance that the election wasn't going to match up and they wanted Bush to win, or they thought there was a good chance things weren't going to add up and they didn't want the full recount to be triggered because they were "tired" or because they believed it would be costly for their state.

Either way they thought that a random recount might show a general problem with the actual results, yet they didn't think that that should be public knowledge, and didn't honestly care to protect our democracy.


.........................

HERO!!!

Robert Bennett was the head of the Cuyahoga county board of elections, appointed to it by Blackwell, and surprise surpise, he's a republican. How many times do you have to be rebutted on the same points? I should just put a page on my desk top so that I can just paste it in response the next time you decide to espouse the same rhetoric.


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Friday, January 26, 2007 9:24 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by ShinyEd:
There has never been a perfect election in the United States for all it's 230 years. These people who are so frikkin' obsessed with every single horseshit story that comes out, conspiracies, etc etc etc...you're all just rutting nuts!...Get a life! Play tennis....Go on a picnic...anything!



Brilliant idea. Corruption has been around forever, so don;t try to do anything about it. Stop worrying about all the pointless minutae like the truth, or letting the people have a voice in government. Just smile, have a picnic, and let those in power do as they will, no matter if it's right or wrong.

Great plan.

No wonder we're in the mess we're in...

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Friday, January 26, 2007 9:30 AM

FIVVER


Hi Righteous9,

I thought about that but in the quote I posted the special prosecutor states 'recount' not the selection process. I also don't think the prosecutor would have said there's no problem with the election because so few votes changed in a contaminated process. As to why they did it I think your second theory is correct. They were basically convicted on charges of failing to do their job not fraud.

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Friday, January 26, 2007 9:38 AM

RIGHTEOUS9



Yeah, I believe the 3 percent was the only recount ever done, but I might be wrong about that.

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Friday, January 26, 2007 10:02 AM

SHINYED


OK Don Quoxite....I get it....go chase your windmills. ME...I got my family, my job, and my Firefly DVD's to keep me plenty busy.

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Wed, November 27, 2024 16:43 - 32 posts
Joe Rogan: Bro, do I have to sue CNN?
Wed, November 27, 2024 16:41 - 7 posts
Elections; 2024
Wed, November 27, 2024 16:36 - 4845 posts
Biden will be replaced
Wed, November 27, 2024 15:06 - 13 posts

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