REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Meanwhile, in Zimbabwe

POSTED BY: GEEZER
UPDATED: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 02:22
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Thursday, March 15, 2007 9:40 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

There has been an unprecedented international reaction to the beatings inflicted by the Zimbabwe police on members of the opposition - including the leader of the Movement for Democratic Change, Morgan Tsvangirai.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6451349.stm

Quote:

Zimbabwean leader Robert Mugabe has said Western critics of his rule can "go hang", in response to accusations of mistreatment of opposition leaders.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6454827.stm

Even South Africa, which has always shown tolerence for Pres. Mugabe's regime, is expressing concern. Inflation is up to 1700% and the population is surviving mostly on international adi, when the government lets them get it. This used to be the breadbasket of Africa. Not looking good at all.



"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Thursday, March 15, 2007 9:50 AM

KHYRON


Thanks for bringing up Zimbabwe, Geezer. I actually wanted to do it a couple of days ago but thought that since it's not Iraq or Reps vs Dems in some form, people will say "Yeah, something should be done" and the thread will quickly be forgotten, so prevent that disappointment I decided not to start a thread in the first place.

Glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks this should be discussed.

http://iafrica.com/news/specialreport/zimbabwe/690327.htm

http://iafrica.com/news/specialreport/zimbabwe/684007.htm



The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.

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Thursday, March 15, 2007 10:55 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Unfortunately, I don't think that there's much we (USA, western democracies) can do, aside from encouraging the African Union and Zimbabwe's neighbors to apply pressure. At least South Africa has finally broken down and offfically noticed that something is wrong.

As long as Mugabe is in power, I'm not sure gentle persuasion is going to work, but if he dies in office (He's getting pretty old) there'll probably be a messy fight for control.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Thursday, March 15, 2007 2:33 PM

JKIDDO


I found this, which details the current problem....

Quote:

Another country with significant Chinese involvement is Zimbabwe, the only African regime that has proved somewhat less amenable to Western free-market demands. But the actions of the regime of President Robert Mugabe also demonstrate the complete bankruptcy of nationalism. After following IMF directives and collaborating with the West since taking power in 1979, the Zimbabwe government faced a deepening economic crisis in the late 1990s. In order to out-manoeuvre the Western-backed opposition, Mugabe organised land seizures and drove out some of the white farmers. Tobacco production on these farms—Zimbabwe’s main export—has since virtually disintegrated.

Mugabe promised a national revival of the economy based on indigenous agriculture. But with Western banks and investors withdrawing support and run-away inflation there was no money to provide the seeds, fertilisers and expertise for the new farmers. As a result, more than half the population now face starvation and the economy is on the brink of collapse.

An article on the web site of the US-based Council on Foreign Relations, which publishes Foreign Affairs, outlines China’s close relationship with Zimbabwe:

“China is the principal supporter of the Mugabe regime, which is reviled in the international community for Mugabe’s ruthless crushing of the opposition and his most recent removal of hundreds of thousands of city residents to the rural areas, with no respect for life, health, or satisfactory alternative arrangements. China is investing in minerals, roads and farming, and supplying Mugabe with jets and other armaments. ‘Zimbabwe is all but owned by China,’ say some observers. ‘In return for a rare hand of friendship in an increasingly hostile world, Mugabe has offered Chinese companies almost anything they want, regardless of payback’”
www.cfr.org/publication/8436/chinas_rising_role_in_africa.html - _edn7).



www.wsws.org/articles/2006/mar2006/afr2-m27.shtml

As something of an aside, most people probably think that corruption stems from poverty. Personally I think it's the other way around. The breakdown of the "rule of law" leads to social and economic collapse.


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Thursday, March 15, 2007 4:08 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Thanks, Jkiddo. I'd forgotten about China's involvement. Interesting that a Socialist site would criticize China, as well as the IMF and Western governments, for their role in Zimbabwe's problems.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Friday, March 16, 2007 3:45 AM

ARCLIGHT


"...Inflation is up to 1700%..."
No longer. Last week the Zimbabwe government "outlawed" inflation. So problem solved.

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Friday, March 16, 2007 4:56 AM

SCORPIONREGENT


China isn't socialist anymore than Singapore. They simply claim to be socailist. They're are just a repressive and increasingly corrupt government that's churning out cheap consumer goods hand over fist and the U.S.A. keeps buying them and now they have accumulated enough dollars that they can afford to exploit Zimbabwe. China is also lending their dollars back to the U.S.A. to make even more money. With all this extra capitol China can the buy US companies, real astate and anything else they care to buy. One day soon America will wake up and realise that they have mortgaged away the country to China all because they wanted a camera phone and a DVD player. Go into any 99 cent or big box store and look at the labels of their products and you will find that more and more of them are coming from China.

Meanwhile back in Zimbabwe, Mr Mugabe has discovered, like so many other African heads of state before him, he too can live like a king if he simply takes the money from a richer country and turns his back on his people.

Scorpion Regent

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Friday, March 16, 2007 5:02 AM

SCORPIONREGENT


Quote:

Originally posted by JKiddo:

Quote:

“China is the principal supporter of the Mugabe regime, which is reviled in the international community for Mugabe’s ruthless crushing of the opposition and his most recent removal of hundreds of thousands of city residents to the rural areas, with no respect for life, health, or satisfactory alternative arrangements. ”
www.cfr.org/publication/8436/chinas_rising_role_in_africa.html - _edn7).



www.wsws.org/articles/2006/mar2006/afr2-m27.shtml














Could Zimbabwe be the next killing fields? Imagine if Pol Pot had had international backing.

Scorpion Regent

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Friday, March 16, 2007 5:20 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by ScorpionRegent:
Could Zimbabwe be the next killing fields? Imagine if Pol Pot had had international backing.

Scorpion Regent



Already going on in Sudan, another of China's economic partners in Africa.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Friday, March 16, 2007 10:18 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
This used to be the breadbasket of Africa. Not looking good at all.


Don't worry. There's always Rhodesia...

H

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Saturday, March 17, 2007 1:25 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


I've been telling people to start learning Chinese and Spanish for a couple of years now.

If only I practiced what I preached. I am learning Spanish pretty quick, but I can't read or write it for crap. Guess that won't matter though cause all of our instructions will be in English/Spanish/Chinese soon anyways. At the very least, you'll never have a problem finding employment if you knew all three. That is, until the public school system is reformed and we actually teach our kids something that will help them compete in the new global economy.

(BWWWWAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA!!! I made a funny. Public School actually teaching anything important..... HAHAHAHAHA)

Seriously though, 1700% inflation. WTF! I gotta stop bitching to people how eggs doubled in price at the local grocery store and I only got a lousy 4% cost of living increase this year, or merit raise, as they would like to have us believe.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Saturday, March 17, 2007 3:29 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


This is a story which has been ignored now for how many years ? I wonder how many on the international scene were inwardly smiling when Mugabe drove off the white farmers , many who had been on that land for decades or more , and replaced them with unskilled, uneducated settlers. " Yeah, take back Africa for Africans! "

Well, we see what that's wrought, haven't we? It's as if Mugabe's trying to tear down his country, brick by brick, and then to force the populace to look toward him for any handouts.

Sounds like some politicians here in the U.S. I know.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Saturday, March 17, 2007 8:19 AM

MALBADINLATIN


Quote:

Originally posted by ScorpionRegent:
Could Zimbabwe be the next killing fields? Imagine if Pol Pot had had international backing.



I find that disturbing. I spent a summer in China back in 1986 as an Anthropology major. I was in Beijing, Shanghai, and Chonquing. Most of the time I spent was with students, and this was pre-Tianamin Square. The atmosphere of the day was decidedly pro-democracy. I found the average Chinese person to be warm, open, and very hospitable to thier fellow man. Then on the other hand...when thier fellow man is suffering, they have a way of ignoring it. It's not that disssimilar to the way the British look the other way and change the subject when someone is embarrassed.

The macro version of this can be found in the way the Chinese handle thier foreign affairs. They don't share the belief that they have to police the world. In all the movies we Americans watch from childhood on, there are heros, and they save the Universe, Towns, and Cities. So it's counter to our nature to do business with countries that are run by bad guys, even though we do sometimes anyway. The Chinese don't grow up this way.

Now the Chinese are getting all they can out of Africa and the world because they don't waste time trying to give democracy to people who didn't ask for it. If Pol Pot kind of atrocities happen in Africa, the Chinese won't do anything about it. But saying they might bank roll it...I hope not.




"You can believe your eyes...or you can believe me." -Groucho Marx

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Wednesday, March 28, 2007 2:22 AM

KHYRON


Opposition leader arrested... again.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6503061.stm



"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."

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