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Originally posted by MalBadInLatin:
I still don't know why I expect anything less than "Nope! there ain't no such thang as global warmin'" rhetoric from conservatives.

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Originally posted by rue:
Record rains, record droughts, severe droughts followed by extreme rain - these all fit the model of global warming which says the US west and southwest will get drier and hotter on average, but extremes of weather will become more common all over.

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Originally posted by Geezer:
"This flood/drought/storm/calm/fire/bug-dieoff/moss-increase/bad-year-for-my-tomatoes/rain-on-my-just-washed-car was caused by global warming, and proves we have to shut down everything right now!"

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Originally posted by Geezer:
Possible, but the IPCC model also calls for more moisture in the eastern US

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Could you tell by the title of the thread? (A take off on Hiram Gummer's "Well that's just dandy.")

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Originally posted by rue:
Oh, and this ...
"WASHINGTON - Future eastern United States summers look much hotter than originally predicted with daily highs about 10 degrees warmer than in recent years by the mid-2080s, a new NASA study says.

Previous and widely used global warming computer estimates predict too many rainy days, the study says. Because drier weather is hotter, they underestimate how warm it will be east of the Mississippi River, said atmospheric scientists Barry Lynn and Leonard Druyan of Columbia University and NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies."

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Originally posted by rue:
Bottom line - the earth is going to be much warmer. Though you apparently don't accept that scientific result. You'd rather stick with your personal vodoo thoughts.

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Originally posted by rue:
Bottom line - the earth is going to be much warmer. Though you apparently don't accept that scientific result. You'd rather stick with your personal vodoo thoughts.

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
So let me get this straight......
1. The Beatles will come here and destroy our trees, presumably to make new guitars for Paul. Fortunatly for us, two down, two to go.
2. Icecaps will melt, flooding the streets with water drowning the non-eco-disaster-believers, also killing the Beatles that killed our trees as an added bonus. Prices of a mint condition LP of "The White Album" Skyrocket.
3. People will make rafts out of the dead floating trees and eventually construct floating cities out of all of the driftwood. Making everyday for everyone still alive a vacation to Venice.

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Originally posted by Khyron:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6655449.stm
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Framing climate change as an issue which evokes fear and personal stress becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. By "sexing it up" we exacerbate, through psychological amplifiers, the very risks we are trying to ward off.

The careless (or conspiratorial?) translation of concern about Saddam Hussein's putative military threat into the case for WMD has had major geopolitical repercussions.

We need to make sure the agents and agencies in our society which would seek to amplify climate change risks do not lead us down a similar counter-productive pathway.

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Geezer: "I'm afraid that the missionary zeal to spread the word about global warming sometimes leads to the worst excesses of missionaries, wherein they blame every bad thing on the devil and one's lack of faith."

Finn:
"What we deny, I think, is the apocalyptic visions of religious fanaticism. If you want to convince people that the environment is worth improving, then stop with the end-of-the-world crap, because that’s not science – it’s religion."

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Originally posted by rue:
...when you get me better science that tells me global warming is all-natural and minimal I'll accept it.

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And the best science available at the moment says global warming is nearly all man-made and will result in disruption of our lives and the lives of generations to come.

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It's you who refuse to follow the data where it leads...

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Originally posted by rue:
One by one:

C: Global warming seems pretty much established through observation.

C: Human contributions through agriculture and technology seem pretty well established, although how much is still in question.
R: The estimates vary between 95 and 97%.

C: Predictions of future rates of global warming seem to vary widely.
R: The estimates vary between 4C and 10C. By any measure, that's a lot warmer.

C: Changes in climate have always disrupted people's lives.
R: But when these changes are self-induced they are completely avoidable.

C: we think we can mitigate it
R: Scientists are saying we (humans) can eliminate the problem using currently available technology. Why live with a problem you can fix ?

C: What I don't do is pick from the pile of contradictory data the finding which has the worst outcome.
R: Neither do it. You apparently haven't been closely following the research. Science follows the best available data, as do I.

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I call bull shit. Global warming and cooling is natural...........

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Originally posted by rue:
C: Human contributions through agriculture and technology seem pretty well established, although how much is still in question.
R: The estimates vary between 95 and 97%.

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Originally posted by rue:
C: Human contributions through agriculture and technology seem pretty well established, although how much is still in question.
R: The estimates vary between 95 and 97%.

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C: Predictions of future rates of global warming seem to vary widely.
R: The estimates vary between 4C and 10C. By any measure, that's a lot warmer.

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C: Changes in climate have always disrupted people's lives.
R: But when these changes are self-induced they are completely avoidable.
C: we think we can mitigate it
R: Scientists are saying we (humans) can eliminate the problem using currently available technology. Why live with a problem you can fix ?

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Science follows the best available data, as do I.

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Originally posted by SignyM:
Geezer- I think you have the notion that WE can adapt while the rest of the world goes down the tubes.

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But so many effects will be worldwide ... that I think like it or not, we're in this together. I just can't imagine us floating while everyone else sinks.

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It's not that I'm saying we shouldn't adapt. I think there are some vital and necessary things to do right now, within our own borders, to brace ourselves for the consequences of global warming. And BTW I'm curious what your list of adaptation would look like. But we can do both. It shouldn't be one or the other.

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But so many effects will be worldwide ... that I think like it or not, we're in this together. I just can't imagine us floating while everyone else sinks.-Signy

Given the attitude of China, India and the developing world, I don't expect them to feel this way. I also note that even the folks who signed on to the Kyoto Accords mostly haven't met their goals. I expect that regardless of what the Western world does, there's gonna be global warming.- Geezer

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Originally posted by SignyM:
You misunderstand me. I'm not saying that we're all going to suddenly realize that we're facing the worst crisis ever and join hands in a burst of sanity and brotherly love. What I'm saying is whether we "feel" it or not we ARE in this together. ALL of us: China, India, Bangladesh, Russia, Europe, Australia... And the USA might be like the one swimmer in a pool of drowning people. The political and economic instability will make it unlikely that we will be allowed to tackle our problems more-or-less unmolested by outside forces.

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Originally posted by SignyM:
BECAUSE THEIR ISLANDS ARE ALREADY UNDERWATER.

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Originally posted by SignyM:
You know Geezer, your sanguine concept of what's not going to happen is already cotnradicted by the fact that New Zealand has made special provisions for immigrating Pacific Islanders. WHY are they immigrating to New Zealand, one might ask? BECAUSE THEIR ISLANDS ARE ALREADY UNDERWATER.

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OSLO (Reuters) - Human activities are wiping out three animal or plant species every hour and the world must do more to slow the worst spate of extinctions since the dinosaurs by 2010, the United Nations said on Tuesday.

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GENEVA (Reuters) - One in six European land mammals faces the threat of extinction, mainly through habitat loss and deforestation, a leading conservation group said on Tuesday. For marine mammals, the figure is higher at nearly one in four, but even this could be an underestimate

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(Reuters) - Global warming is occurring faster than predicted because rapid economic growth has resulted in higher than expected greenhouse gas emissions since 2000, said an Australian report on Tuesday.

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Originally posted by rue:
By Peter N. Spotts, Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor
Tue May 22, 4:00 AM ET


Global emissions of carbon dioxide are growing at a faster clip than the highest rates used in recent key UN reports.

CO2 emissions from cars, factories, and power plants grew at an annual rate of 1.1 percent during the 1990s, according to the Global Carbon Project, which is a data clearinghouse set up in 2001 as a cooperative effort among UN-related groups and other scientific organizations. But from 2000 to 2004, CO2 emissions rates almost tripled to 3 percent a year – higher than any rate used in emissions scenarios for the reports by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC).

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The Global Carbon Project's calculations should be viewed with caution, says Michael Oppenheimer, a climate-policy specialist at Princeton University in New Jersey. Economies have been recovering from a recession at the turn of the millennium. And a spike in natural-gas prices – of uncertain duration – has given coal a second wind in developed countries. These short-term factors have probably contributed to the growth in emissions rates, he says.

Yet longer-term forces may be at play to sustain the high emissions rates. For instance, "There is concern among many experts that factors such as China's continued, very rapid coal-based growth may not be a blip that would turn around," he says.

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Originally posted by SignyM:
Sometimes I just want to put my head thru a wall... OSLO (Reuters) - Human activities are wiping out three animal or plant species every hour and the world must do more to slow the worst spate of extinctions since the dinosaurs by 2010, the United Nations said on Tuesday.

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A "Red List" of endangered species, however, lists only 784 species driven to extinction since 1500 -- ranging from the dodo bird of Mauritius to the golden toad of Costa Rica.

Craig Hilton-Taylor, manager of the list compiled by the World Conservation Union grouping 83 governments as well as scientists and environmental organizations, said the hugely varying figures might both be right, in their way.

"The U.N. figures are based on loss of habitats, estimates of how many species lived there and so will have been lost," he told Reuters. "Ours are more empirical -- those species we knew were there but cannot find."

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GENEVA (Reuters) - One in six European land mammals faces the threat of extinction, mainly through habitat loss and deforestation, a leading conservation group said on Tuesday. For marine mammals, the figure is higher at nearly one in four, but even this could be an underestimate

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In a report for the European Union, the IUCN said the Balkans and particularly Bulgaria and Romania are the most affected by declining land mammals, principally because they are also home to the greatest number of species... Habitat loss and degradation, including deforestation or wetland drainage, posed the main threats to terrestrial mammals, followed by pollution and over-harvesting, the report said.

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(Reuters) - Global warming is occurring faster than predicted because rapid economic growth has resulted in higher than expected greenhouse gas emissions since 2000, said an Australian report on Tuesday.

Note that these reports are coming from different agencies.

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