Resolving the illegal immigrant conundrum by leadb

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Resolving the illegal immigrant conundrum

POSTED BY: LEADB
UPDATED: Tuesday, July 3, 2007 17:05
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Sunday, July 1, 2007 12:21 PM

Over in the following thread, we have a lot of debate over all sorts of things around illegal immigration; and if you'd like discuss other aspects of illegal immigration, I'd suggest you go here:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=18&t=29416&m=514074#514074

What I'd like to do here is instead focus on what the following question:

The US currently has millions of undocumented workers; what political solutions would you support to resolve the problem? For example, do you really want to force all current illegals to go home and then return?

I'll start... While there's probably many solutions I would support, I would support the following:

A program which would allow current illegal immigrants to stay in the US provided:
1) Significant improvement in border control is implemented; perhaps including improved fencing, monitoring, etc.

2) Establishing a safe and controlled way for workers to come from Mexico to the US to work low skill jobs. Controls would include some effort to balance the low skill labor pool with the availability of such work.

3) A tiered minimum wage; where a 20% lower wage could be paid to immigrant workers provided no US citizen steps up to the job. Should a citizen step up to the job the employer would have to choose to hire the citizen, or increase the pay to the immigrant laborer to equal terms to what citizens are entitled.

4) Immigrants would need to register for worker id's, and pay taxes.

5) Immigrants staying in the US longer than 4 years must develop some minimal English language skills, or lose eligibility to this program, and return to the country of origin.

6) Strong fines to employers who fail to comply with the new terms. Repeated offenses should yield fines which any business would ultimately find devestating.

7) Path to citizenship in the US would not be enhanced for immigrant workers; however, neither would past illegal presence in the US be held against them.

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Sunday, July 1, 2007 5:10 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I would take a stepwise approach. The first would be to control the borders and ports. The second would be to modify the clause All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. to All persons born to United States citizens are citizens This clause was introduced to grant citizenship to former slaves, not to encourage immigration. The "anchor baby" clause goes.

The third would be to issue work cards and (valid) social security numbers to everyone working in the USA, seriously bang the heads of any person, contractor, or corporation hiring people without a valid SSN and require that they sponsor their employees for citizenship, and then grant a path to citizenship which would be an expedited (5 year) process requiring adequate knowledge of the English language, knowledge of how the government works and the rights granted by the Constitution, and of course a clean record. People failing this would be deported.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Monday, July 2, 2007 3:03 AM

LEADB

Did a bit of poking around; just to be clear, I believe you are referring to the 14th amendment which includes: 'All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.' Getting into the constitution is always tricky and time consuming. Certainly we could 'go for that'; but if it seemed to fail to gain momentum, is there any legislative solution which you would support?

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Monday, July 2, 2007 3:47 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

There is no wording in the 14th amendment that needs "clarification", and I personally can't see any law that would have the same effect without being declared Unconstitutional. There would have to be some procedural sleight of hand, such issuing an "alien birth certificate" to the nearest consulate (not "born in the USA") but that would never fly.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Monday, July 2, 2007 3:55 AM

FLETCH2

Could be an off the wall suggestion here but you could just colonise Mexico? Do away with Nafta and just make the place 5 more States?

As I see it the current Mexican political elite has no interest in solving the problem. Almost every Mexican that makes it north and gets a job sends money home and are one of the biggest sources of income to the country. That's why the Mexican government publishes handbooks on how to cross into the US. In addition part of the reason that folks head north is lack of opertunity at home which is again due to Mexico's elite and their control of the economy. If this were a US state, even a poor one, this would have been resolved by now.

So make it clear to the Mexican government that if the situation continues you will extend an offer of statehood to various Mexican provinces and will broadcast that fact to the populous. I'm sure the elites will then get the message.

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Monday, July 2, 2007 5:55 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by leadb:
I'll start... While there's probably many solutions I would support, I would support the following:

Here's my plan:

1. Secure the border...walls, moats, alligators, dog with laser on their heads, landmines...whatever it takes.

2. Deport all illigal aliens who have committed a felony since their arrival. No catch and release...unless the release part involves driving down the the new border wall/fence/moat and using the new Acme Deportomatic Alien-pult.

3. A guest worker program with tamper proof id, wage and worker protections (to make employing guest workers more in line with employing non-guest workers for wage, safety and benefits), and a license program for the employer (ie hiring an illegal worker costs your company $1500 for a one-year 'guest worker' license for each worker you hire and the proceeds go to local education and health services).

4. Folks who apply as guest workers are forever barred from citizenship and any children they have are barred as well. Only legal immigrants can find a path to citizenship.

5. At the end of your five-year guest worker stay you must return home for one year before re-applying.

6. Guest worker Micro-chips so we know were they are, how long they've been here, and when they are due to leave.

I'm working on the Alien-pult (or perhaps some variation of the human cannonball technology). The rest of the plan I leave to Congress.

H

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Monday, July 2, 2007 6:30 AM

SERGEANTX

Hero, you forgot the roving squads of armed Immigration Agents who'll make random spot checks searching our homes and businesses for illegals.

Fascism Rules!!

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Monday, July 2, 2007 7:10 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
Hero, you forgot the roving squads of armed Immigration Agents who'll make random spot checks searching our homes and businesses for illegals.

I didn't forget it, my plan does not include it. You'll have to look elsewhere for a plan that leaves out the Constitution. Mine is harsh, entertaining, and could be done with only a few modifications to existing law. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

H

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Tuesday, July 3, 2007 5:01 PM

LEADB

Well, I do think that Hero goes a bit over the top, and I'm sure some of his comments were meant to be amusing (ie: I don't think he seriously is proposing we catapult people out of the country); however, the identification requirement is likely to be important here. I would amend my suggestion above that folks permitted to work under this program be required to be finger printed and retinal scanned; records to be retained until such time full citizenship is awarded. While doing so to citizens of the US is perhaps unconstitutional; requiring this for aliens wishing to take advantage of a voluntary work offering would likely be legal.

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Tuesday, July 3, 2007 5:05 PM

LEADB

Quote:
Originally posted by Fletch2:
Could be an off the wall suggestion here but you could just colonise Mexico? Do away with Nafta and just make the place 5 more States?

It -is- off the wall, but heck... let's play with it...

Quote:
As I see it the current Mexican political elite has no interest in solving the problem. Almost every Mexican that makes it north and gets a job sends money home and are one of the biggest sources of income to the country. That's why the Mexican government publishes handbooks on how to cross into the US. In addition part of the reason that folks head north is lack of opertunity at home which is again due to Mexico's elite and their control of the economy. If this were a US state, even a poor one, this would have been resolved by now.

So make it clear to the Mexican government that if the situation continues you will extend an offer of statehood to various Mexican provinces and will broadcast that fact to the populous. I'm sure the elites will then get the message.

Biggest problem is how to do this without triggering a war. Even if we put this down as a "We'll accept any Mexican state who will join the union voluntarily", I have to believe the central Mexican government wouldn't put up with it.

The other thing is we have enough corruption in the US government as it is; I'm not sure taking in the Mexican states would help in that regard.

I can certainly see trying to negotiate with the Mexican gov. to improve things; but I doubt such an ultimatum would actually help. I suspect other carrots/sticks would be more effective.

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