Why the Left is so dangerous by AURaptor

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
But in THAT particular instance, there was no harm to the learning process. So what you're arguing for is order for the sake of order.

How do you know there was nothing to learn. Maybe one of the things to learn is children shouldn’t take Bong hits.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Friday, July 20, 2007 4:14 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Now you're just being 'clever' without seeming to understand your own words. There was no curriculum. It was just an event - watching the torch go by.

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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Friday, July 20, 2007 4:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Now you're just being 'clever' without seeming to understand you own words. There was nothing to learn. It was just an event - watching the torch go by.

I understand my own words just fine and I think so do you. Children learn more from school then what get from books. They learn appropriate attitudes and behavior, whether it is a school event, a classroom, a football game or whatever. But in the end, what this principal did was right.

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Friday, July 20, 2007 4:24 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"They learn appropriate attitudes and behavior"

That's what I'm saying - you're arguing for control for its own sake, not for any effect it has on the learning process. You don't want schools to turn out well-educated people, you want them to turn out compliant people.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Friday, July 20, 2007 4:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
That's what I'm saying - you're arguing for control for its own sake.

Whatever you want to call it.

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
You don't want school sot tunr out well-educated people, you want them to turn out compliant people.

Because I expect the teachers and principals to supervise students? You don't really have a point, do you?

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Friday, July 20, 2007 4:35 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"disruptive to the school event"
"appropriate attitudes and behavior"

You still haven't shown me that children were academically harmed. Until you show me that, I have to conclude your issue is not that learning was disrupted, but that you prefer children be made compliant.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Friday, July 20, 2007 4:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
You still haven't shown me that children were academically affected by the sign. Until you show me that, I have to conclude your issue is not that learning was disrupted, but that you prefer children be made compliant.

Until I prove your strawman wrong? Sounds like a waste of time. I have a better idea. You can conclude whatever the hell you want, and I’ll go watch Zenon.

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Friday, July 20, 2007 4:57 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Sigh ... you just got backed into a corner of your own contradictions, and now you're attacking and running away.

You CLAIMED the issue was about learning. You failed to show learning was affected in any way. Case closed.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Friday, July 20, 2007 5:10 PM

Not really, you decided what my opinion was from the very beginning, and you’ve been trying desperately and unsuccessfully to prove that preconceived notion. I’ve just gotten bored listening to you try to demonize me to justify your personal problems with authority. If you had something interesting or mature to say, I’d debate it, but you don’t. All you want to do is validate your ad hominem – what was it? “Little martinete.” It’s actually spelled martinet. So I’ve run out of patience and you need therapy.

Zenon is starting. Mmmbuhbye.

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Friday, July 20, 2007 5:17 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
That the kid may have been trying to play hooky doesn’t make play well for his defense and doesn’t change that the principal was ultimately responsible for the event and had every right to seize the sign, which was inappropriate.

What if the sign had been hoisted by someone NOT affiliated with the the school? Students from another school? A passerby who had just mixed in with the students? How do you define where the "school event" is taking place and who the principal had "control" of?

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Friday, July 20, 2007 5:19 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I just read the other posts. You know what Finn? Why don;t you watch Zenon? Beside, everyone knows that Finn is a crotchety old grandame!

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Friday, July 20, 2007 5:23 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"I guess you don’t care if children actually learn while in school or under school supervision."

Now, I don't know Finn. Something about this post gave me the idea you thought it was about learning. Perhaps you can help me figure out how I got the idea.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Friday, July 20, 2007 11:13 PM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
You still haven't shown me that children were academically harmed. Until you show me that, I have to conclude your issue is not that learning was disrupted, but that you prefer children be made compliant.

I think he prefers children be made Christian.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Saturday, July 21, 2007 5:13 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Finn wants things to feel a certain way. He seems to be very much affected by the ... I don't know the word for this... a surface made of separate pieces... a collage maybe- which creates an appearance. Change a bit of paper, the appearance AND the response changes.

So for example he's deeply concerned about human life- but change the age from baby to adult and then he's not so much concerned. He loves his country- free, hard-working, moral, strong military- but not the republican principles behind its founding. He's in love with all the pieces in place, maybe, but not really recognizing that sometimes those pieces are even in conflict with each other.

My $0.02 FWIW.

ETA: Can we get back to why "The Left" is so dangerous? It makes me feel so... empowered... unlike most of the time when I feel sad, scared, frustrated, and isolated.

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Saturday, July 21, 2007 11:13 AM

SOUPCATCHER

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
ETA: Can we get back to why "The Left" is so dangerous? It makes me feel so... empowered... unlike most of the time when I feel sad, scared, frustrated, and isolated.

When I first read the thread title, way back when, my brain went in two different directions. The second was that the title was meant to be read in a sultry, drawn out, come hither voice (the Left is sooooo daaaangerous, ooooooh).

Sortta like Roxette's song "Dangerous." (

)

It helped me forget, for a second, that the RWAuthoritarians have their self-righteousness cranked up and are just waiting for their authority figures to give the green light.

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Monday, July 23, 2007 12:45 PM

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Rue, Signy, you keep hammering Finn over little details when you should be looking at the big picture. All actions have consequences, be they major or minor. Take your case study regarding the "Bong hits for Jesus sign". Say the student was allowed to display his sign for the duration of the event. You say it is his right, free expression and all that. What about further down the road? What if he decides to bring the sign to school or wear a t-shirt with the same sentiment? What if some impressionable kids read the sign and decide to put words into action? What if some of the student's parents see the sign and wonder why nothing was done by the school authorities? What if at the next school sanctioned event a student displays a banner that reads "Kill non-believers for Jesus"? It is unfortunate but the old adage holds true, give someone an inch and they will take a mile. Sometimes, unfairly, you have to nip things in the butt to prevent further problems in the future.
Finn, IMHO, has argued that authority is necessary to promote learning which I tend to agree with. You two seem to think authority is not necessary or only in certain instances. Who do you think is more qualified to make the judgement call? You or the Principal who deals with the kids on a regular basis?

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Monday, July 23, 2007 2:10 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Sigh ........

You sound like chicken little.

"authority is necessary to promote learning" PLEASE tell me how learning was impaired during the event to watch the Olypmic torch go by. PLEASE. Finn wasn't able to answer it, so, since you two seem to be of the same mind, perhaps you can explain. What precious gem of knowledge wasn't imparted while waiting for the torch for the few minutes the sign was up ?

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Monday, July 23, 2007 2:25 PM

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Sigh ........

You sound like chicken little.

"authority is necessary to promote learning" PLEASE tell me how learning was impaired during the event to watch the Olypmic torch go by. PLEASE. Finn wasn't able to answer it, so, since you two seem to be of the same mind, perhaps you can explain. What precious gem of knowledge wasn't imparted while waiting for the torch for the few minutes the sign was up ?

Please see my quote above regarding the whole give an inch, take a mile adage. While not an educational event per se, it was still a school sanctioned event. It would act as a precedent which could be exploited in the future in different milieus. It is a slippery slope to start making judgement calls on case by case bases, obviously you will never get full agreement from all parties involved. Much easier and safer to apply one set of guidelines to all school sanctioned events.

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