Please tell me you aren't surprised by fredgiblet

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Please tell me you aren't surprised

POSTED BY: FREDGIBLET
UPDATED: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 09:31
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Wednesday, July 11, 2007 7:26 AM

FREDGIBLET

http://www.kansascity.com/news/world/story/185250.html

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Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:03 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

I'm not surprised. I work in a scientific government agency and this crap has been going on ever since Bush's "sound science" arsenic debacle.

I don't know if you remember, but a new and lower limit for arsenic in drinking water was supposed to go into effect early in Bush's appointment by the Supremes. Water vendors in certain areas of the country said it would cost too much to clean up the water and thus cut into their profits. Bush stopped the implementation, saying it should be based on "sound science" and put it before the NAS (National Academy of Sciences) for review. They concluded the new arsenic levels were indeed sound science. How mortifying for Herr Bush.

Ever since, Bush has been jamming science-based agencies - closing all federal research libraries across the country, firing chief scientists that didn't agree with Cheney's agendas, and putting non-scientist flunkies in top scientific tiers, muzzling researchers (for example, sending Communist-style 'minders' with NASA scientists working on global warming), having political hacks re-writing scientific reports - the list is lengthy.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:08 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
“Anything that doesn’t fit into the political appointees’ ideological, theological or political agenda is ignored, marginalized or simply buried,” Richard Carmona, surgeon general from 2002 to 2006, told a congressional committee.

And still, some peeps here thinks Bush is not a scumbag.
*shakes his head with the accompanying Loony Toons sound effect*

It's Bush season Chrisisall

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Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:41 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Some of this is what Cheney did to lower-level intelligence employees. Unfortunately they didn't seem to know the value of the butt-covering email : Dear (name) this is to confirm the understanding of our (date) conversation in which you indicated ... Sincerely, name, title, ccd and bccd to people up and over in the chain of command, and on different mail servers. Very polite and professional.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:49 AM

SERGEANTX

There's no evidence that this actually occurred and, um, it's a politically motivated attack financed by LIBERALs and, oh yeah, Clinton did it too!

So there.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Wednesday, July 11, 2007 12:23 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
I'm not surprised. I work in a scientific government agency and this crap has been going on ever since Bush's "sound science" arsenic debacle.

I don't know if you remember, but a new and lower limit for arsenic in drinking water was supposed to go into effect early in Bush's appointment by the Supremes. Water vendors in certain areas of the country said it would cost too much to clean up the water and thus cut into their profits. Bush stopped the implementation, saying it should be based on "sound science" and put it before the NAS (National Academy of Sciences) for review. They concluded the new arsenic levels were indeed sound science. How mortifying for Herr Bush.

Ever since, Bush has been jamming science-based agencies - closing all federal research libraries across the country, firing chief scientists that didn't agree with Cheney's agendas, and putting non-scientist flunkies in top scientific tiers, muzzling researchers (for example, sending Communist-style 'minders' with NASA scientists working on global warming), having political hacks re-writing scientific reports - the list is lengthy.

The arsenic issue was nothing more than a political time bomb left over by.....yes, Bill Clinton. For 7 1/2 yrs, he allowed the arsenic levels to remain where they were. On the eve of his final days in office, Clinton , not the Supremes, made an Execuitive Order lowering the arsenic levels to a ridiculously low level, well below what was required. The reason? It was so costly for suppliers of water to refit their equipment to meet those standards, he knew there would be an outcry made to Bush to reinstate the previous levels. And that's exactly what Bush did. But Bush didn't simply leave matters at that, he went on to further study the issue, before making such a drastic decission that would impact businesses and communities nation wide. Clinton and his people KNEW that the media would report Bush raising of the arsenic levels, which is a crap charge, and likely leave out the important, FACTUAL parts of the issue. He was right, and it duped a ton of folks, just like you.

The real scum bag is Clinton, for playing politics w/ our safety.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, July 11, 2007 12:40 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

So "Clinton did it" makes Bush better? Seems if Clinton is a scumbag for doing something, Bush is the same style scumbag for doing the same thing. I know that even-handedness is a foreign concept for some people tho...

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Wednesday, July 11, 2007 12:54 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
So "Clinton did it" makes Bush better? Seems if Clinton is a scumbag for doing something, Bush is the same style scumbag for doing the same thing. I know that even-handedness is a foreign concept for some people tho...

"Saw that comin'. "

Figured you have some sort of quick, snippy reply. Here's something meatier for you to chew on.

You're welcome.

DISCUSSION: Many environmental groups and their allies have attacked the administration for delaying implementation of a new arsenic standard for drinking water, a standard which was put into place by the Clinton administration hours before leaving office.

THIS CHARGE IS SIMPLY NOT TRUE.

After 25 years of study by various administations, the Clinton administration set the permitted level of arsenic at 10 parts per billion, down from the current 50 - without asking the National Academies of Science precisely what the new level should be. Further, the new regulation set forth by the Clinton administration would not have gone into effect until the year 2006.

Under President Bush's order, the new maximum arsenic level standard will still go into effect in 2006. Mr. Bush has simply asked the NAS to take nine months to tell him precisely what that new level should be so the Bush administration can make certain that the new standard protects the greatest number of Americans the most efficiently and effectively as possible.

by Tom Randall, Director of Environmental and Regulatory Affairs, The National Center for Public Policy Research

Contact the author at: 773-857-5086 or trandall@nationalcenter.org
The National Center for Public Policy Research, Chicago office
3712 N. Broadway - PMB 279
Chicago, IL 60613

In my book, that makes Clinton the scum bag, because at least Bush was reasonable enough to ask the NAS to study the matter FIRST, before agreeing to any set number. Clinton was purely playing politics.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, July 11, 2007 12:59 PM

SERGEANTX

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Wednesday, July 11, 2007 1:03 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Yes, it was so rushed there were 30 YEARS of studies behind the new limits:

http://www.epa.gov/sab/pdf/lamm_2004_joem_arsenic_in_dw_and_bladder_ca
ncer_mortality_in_us.pdf
Arsenic in Drinking Water and Bladder Cancer Mortality in the United States: An Analysis Based on 133 U.S. Counties and 30 Years of Observation

And strangely enough, in its Bush-mandated review, the NAS found allowable aresenic levels should be even LOWER than the Clinton regulation. But that bit of 'sound science' didn't translate into Bush policy.

Bush Administration, Ignoring National Academy Of Sciences, Sticks With Clinton Arsenic-In-Tap-Water Standard

EPA cuts off public comment period after 57,000 Americans support 3-parts-per-billion standard
WASHINGTON (October 31, 2001) - Although a recent National Academy of Sciences (NAS) report found that arsenic's health risks are much greater than the Environmental Protection Agency had previously assumed, the agency announced today it will keep the arsenic-in-tap water standard it adopted at the end of the Clinton administration. NRDC (Natural Resources Defense Council) denounced EPA for failing to keep its pledge to base its decision on "sound science."

"EPA Administrator Christine Whitman said she wanted to make sure the Clinton EPA decision was based on 'sound science,' but when the National Academy of Sciences found that the cancer risks of even low levels of arsenic in tap water are many times higher than EPA ever estimated, she didn't lower the standard," said Erik D. Olson, an NRDC senior attorney. "Her review was a charade, and her decision will threaten the health of millions of Americans."

THAT DIRTY ROTTEN BASTARD CLINTON ! HOW COULD HE DO THAT ? STICKING AMERICANS WITH CLEANER WATER THAT CAUSES LESS CANCER ! THE NERVE !

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Wednesday, July 11, 2007 1:08 PM

FLETCH2

Is there a reason for all this arsenic? Does it come from polution?

I know in the UK we had a lot of problems with lead that turned out to be from old lead pipes. Anyone know where the arsenic comes from?

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Wednesday, July 11, 2007 1:21 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Arsenic is found naturally in some ground-water supplies. (You may have heard of the problem in Bangladesh.)

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs210/en/ for general inforamtion on arsenic in drinking water

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Wednesday, July 11, 2007 1:26 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

All Bush did was ask the NAS to study the issue, before allowing the 10ppm standard to go into effect. How is that an issue anyone can get fussy over, is beyond me. Clinton delayed the order to go into affect 5 yrs after he left office. Bush simply wanted to take a few more months to study the issue. This issue is over a year old, yet some are still trying to vilify Bush for acting responsible. Amazing.

EPA has set the arsenic standard for drinking water at .010 parts per million (10 parts per billion) to protect consumers served by public water systems from the effects of long-term, chronic exposure to arsenic. Water systems must comply with this standard by January 23, 2006, providing additional protection to an estimated 13 million Americans.

http://www.epa.gov/safewater/arsenic/index.html

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, July 11, 2007 1:46 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Rap:

The arsenic issue was nothing more than a political time bomb left over by.....yes, Bill Clinton. For 7 1/2 yrs, he allowed the arsenic levels to remain where they were. On the eve of his final days in office, Clinton , not the Supremes, made an Executive Order (now wait a minute - no one said the Supremes did anything except appoint Tush. Why don't you learn to read ?) lowering the arsenic levels to a ridiculously low level, well below what was required (not ridiculously low, actually, not as low as required). The reason? It was so costly for suppliers of water to refit their equipment to meet those standards, he knew there would be an outcry made to Bush to reinstate the previous levels. And that's exactly what Bush did. But Bush didn't simply leave matters at that, he went on to further study the issue (apparently he didn't believe the 30 years of study went into the new levels, preferring to presume it was politics, and not science), before making such a drastic decision that would impact businesses and communities nation wide (a decision they knew was in the works for over a decade. Don't you us hate sudden surprises like that?). Clinton and his people KNEW that the media would report Bush raising of the arsenic levels, which is a crap charge (and one that was not actually reported), and likely leave out the important, FACTUAL parts of the issue (You mean like you did? THESE are actual news items:
"EPA to Kill New Arsenic Standards - Whitman Cites Debate On Drinking Water Risk" WashPost
"Arsenic standard dumped Bush drops tougher Clinton regulations on drinking water" DenverPost
"E.P.A. TO ABANDON NEW ARSENIC LIMITS FOR WATER SUPPLY" NYTimes
"EPA delays lower arsenic standards for water" CNN.com
EPA Blocks Tighter Rules For Arsenic in Water Whitman questions scientific validity" SanFranChronicle
"EPA chief cancels Clinton rule for water arsenic levels" DallasMorningNews
in fact, NOWHERE does it say anything about raising arsenic levels) He was right, and it duped a ton of folks, just like you.(Speaking of dupes ...)

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Wednesday, July 11, 2007 2:26 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
"EPA to Kill New Arsenic Standards - Whitman Cites Debate On Drinking Water Risk" WashPost
"Arsenic standard dumped Bush drops tougher Clinton regulations on drinking water" DenverPost
"E.P.A. TO ABANDON NEW ARSENIC LIMITS FOR WATER SUPPLY" NYTimes
"EPA delays lower arsenic standards for water" CNN.com
EPA Blocks Tighter Rules For Arsenic in Water Whitman questions scientific validity" SanFranChronicle
"EPA chief cancels Clinton rule for water arsenic levels" DallasMorningNews

Thanks for proving my point. All those headlines state that Bush either delayed , blocked or dumped the lower levels set by Clinton. Factually, those headlines are false. Bush only delayed the effective order date, and not the date of compliance. Clinton called for the lowering of arsenic in the nation's drinking water to a level of .010ppm by January of 2006. That's what happened.

Dupe.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, July 20, 2007 4:28 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070720/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/endangered_speci
es;_ylt=AhL8GgWZqknHhmJBsjJtnZfMWM0F

H. Dale Hall, the agency's director, on Friday ordered a review of eight endangered species decisions in which former deputy assistant secretary Julie MacDonald was involved. As a result, the fate of the rare mouse, a Western bird known as the "mosquito king" and other threatened creatures will be reconsidered after alleged meddling by MacDonald.

In her post, MacDonald oversaw Fish and Wildlife and the National Park Service. In March, the Interior Department's inspector general rebuked MacDonald for pressuring scientists to alter their findings about endangered species and leaking information about them to industry officials. In May, she resigned.

What we have learned to date raises concerns about political tinkering with science that has affected perhaps 100 endangered species-related decisions — and goodness knows what else — that deserve further scrutiny," Rahall said. (
Rep. Nick Rahall, D-W.Va., chairman of the House Natural Resources Committee)

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Saturday, July 21, 2007 12:13 AM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
There's no evidence that this actually occurred and, um, it's a politically motivated attack financed by LIBERALs and, oh yeah, Clinton did it too!

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
The real scum bag is Clinton, for playing politics w/ our safety.

So, Sarge, what's in your Crystal Ball for the weather?

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Saturday, July 21, 2007 4:43 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

It doesn’t take a Crystal Ball to know that Clinton did it, and that Liberals hate it when someone points that out.

In fact, you could just about say, "Clinton did it" on just about anything people criticize Bush for and be right.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Saturday, July 21, 2007 6:03 AM

SERGEANTX

And, I guess the Democrats will spend the next eight years blaming Bush for their excesses and shortcomings...

Don't you all get the least bit tired of this left/right nonsense?

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Saturday, July 21, 2007 6:23 AM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
And, I guess the Democrats will spend the next eight years blaming Bush for their excesses and shortcomings...

Don't you all get the least bit tired of this left/right nonsense?

I do, but its all new to me, it seems to be a very American thing.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Saturday, July 21, 2007 6:27 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

" I'm shocked... shocked.... to find out that there is politics going on in here!" and/ or was...

Forgive me, Casablanca.

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Saturday, July 21, 2007 6:33 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
And, I guess the Democrats will spend the next eight years blaming Bush for their excesses and shortcomings...

Don't you all get the least bit tired of this left/right nonsense?

All the time.

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Wednesday, July 25, 2007 9:31 AM

FREDGIBLET

More fun stuff.

http://www.ucsusa.org/news/press_release/tomorrows-senate-0048.html

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