A wise man once said.... by BarnStormer

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"Sometimes I just crack my self up.."

Simple things for simple minds, as they say.

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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Wednesday, September 5, 2007 10:38 AM

Yep, it's very simple to see the way my mind works...

If its science, I read it with fascination...

If its baloney, I ignore it....

If its baloney, and someone tries to sell it to the masses for personal gain, which then in turn could hurt me........then I ridicule it. With Hilarity in my heart.

Snort Chuckle Snort

See...there I go again....Laughing at the Gorebal Warming crowd again with reckless abandon....

You know Rue, If you were to limit yourself to only one square of toilet paper per visit, you could probably afford to buy yourself a sense of humor in say....the year 2040.

Assuming we have'nt all drowned due to the rising sea levels that are bound to be Humungus by then.

Am I a Lion?... No, I think I'ma tellin' the truth.

BarnStormer

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Wednesday, September 5, 2007 11:03 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Rue- See what I mean?

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Always look upstream.

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Wednesday, September 5, 2007 11:14 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Quote:
Originally posted by BarnStormer:
"In the space of one hundred and seventy-six years the Lower Mississippi has shortened itself two hundred and forty-two miles. Therefore ... in the Old Oolitic Silurian Period the Lower Mississippi River was upward of one million three hundred thousand miles long... seven hundred and forty-two years from now the Lower Mississippi will be only a mile and three-quarters long... There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact."

Any guesses who????????

Mark Twain.

Here's another good quote that people should take note of:

"It is strange how little has been written about the Upper Mississippi. The river below St. Louis has been described time and again, and it is the least interesting part. One can sit on the pilot-house for a few hours and watch the low shores, the ungainly trees and the democratic buzzards, and then one might as well go to bed. One has seen everything there is to see. Along the Upper Mississippi every hour brings something new. There are crowds of odd islands, bluffs, prairies, hills, woods and villages--everything one could desire to amuse the children. Few people every think of going there, however. Dickens, Corbett, Mother Trollope and the other discriminating English people who 'wrote up' the country before 1842 had hardly an idea that such a stretch of river scenery existed. Their successors have followed in their footsteps, and as we form our opinions of our country from what other people say of us, of course we ignore the finest part of the Mississippi."

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Wednesday, September 5, 2007 11:49 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Seen pix of the upper Mississippi. It looks like Twain said, plus sandhill cranes. Very beautiful.

www.roguepaddler.com/pictures
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Always look upstream.

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Wednesday, September 5, 2007 12:37 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"If you were to limit yourself to only one square of toilet paper per visit ..."

... you mean to your posts I take it. They need much more than that.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Wednesday, September 5, 2007 5:09 PM

SIMONWHO

Perhaps Barnstormer you should bear in mind another quote from Twain:

It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.

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Thursday, September 6, 2007 5:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SimonWho:
Perhaps Barnstormer you should bear in mind another quote from Twain:

It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.

Case in point would be Rue's replies to this thread. I was kind of hoping for some constructive debate on the premise of the Twain quote. Guess thats not likely to happen.

And yes, old Mr Clemens has a million of em. All good, and mostly timeless.

Am I a Lion?... No, I think I'ma tellin' the truth.

BarnStormer

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Thursday, September 6, 2007 5:33 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

I didn't give this a serious reply b/c it didn't deserve one.

We - people who post here - have had this debate at least 5 times before: people who don't understand science (that would include Twain/ Clemens) pontificating on it. It doen't matter how witty someone says their say - what matters is the content. And in this case Twain was wrong, and so, btw, were you for pretending it has any merit and bearing on global warming.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Thursday, September 6, 2007 6:52 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact."

Conjecture isn't science, it's conjecture. And people conjecture about anything and everything. Much as I like Clemmens, he's wrong on this count.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Thursday, September 6, 2007 8:12 AM

FREDGIBLET

Quote:
Originally posted by BarnStormer:
I was kind of hoping for some constructive debate on the premise of the Twain quote. Guess thats not likely to happen.

Regarding his specific example.

Mark Twains view of science:

Fact: The Mississippi has gotten shorter recently
Conclusion: The Mississippi used to be extremely long and will eventually disappear

Reality:

Fact: The Mississippi has gotten shorter recently
Query: What is the cause of shortening
Answer: Erosion acting faster then deposition
Query: Can it be reasonably assumed that the rates of erosion and deposition are constant
Answer: No, even if rates of erosion and deposition have not been seen to change on the Mississippi in recorded times (and they have) there is overwhelming evidence from other similar situations that rates of erosion and deposition can change, even if there wasn't said evidence there are many highly plausible methods by which said rates can change
Conclusion: Current trends in the length of the Mississippi cannot be used to predict length in the future or the past

And that's without even touching on things like course changes, Mr. Twain has created a strawman of science to make his point and not even a very good one.

However, that being said his point is not invalidated by his poorly thought out example, it is true that scientists will occasionally get ahead of the evidence. From what I've heard this happened with superstring theory, the confidence in the theory accelerated at a much greater pace then the actual evidence, though since I lost interest in theoretical physics around the time I started reading about it I can't comment on the current state of SS theory. This, however, doesn't usually happen since scientists who get ahead of the evidence usually get brought down hard and other scientists learn from their mistakes.

As for the question of does this apply to global warming I confess I don't know, to me the debate is pointless for two reasons, first, pollution control should be (IMHO) a goal in itself, we shouldn't need to be worrying about the end of the world to clean up the sky, second, from what I've heard the debate isn't over if there is global warming but rather why there is global warming and (once again IMHO) it seems to me that until it can be conclusively stated that we aren't the cause then we should assume that we are (better safe then sorry) and act accordingly. As a result of those opinions I haven't spent much time reading up on global warming, what I have read has indicated to me that global warming is a real problem and that there is strong evidence (both physical and logical) that we are the cause. What I have read also indicated that the opposition usually comes not from independent labs but rather from corporate groups with a vested interest in clouding the matter. Because of this I am of the interim opinion (and I hold this opinion weakly) that the afore mentioned problem doesn't apply to global warming.

As a side note, if you wanted constructive debate you went about it extremely poorly. Your posts on this thread have been more mocking and taunting then requesting debate, thus you come off less like someone interested in talking and more like a jackass who's looking to pick a fight.

Quote:
Originally posted by Rue:
people who don't understand science (that would include Twain/ Clemens) pontificating on it.

At the risk of starting a threadjack you must not have been counting the evolution threads when you came up with the 5 times.

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Thursday, September 6, 2007 8:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:
There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact."
Conjecture isn't science, it's conjecture. And people conjecture about anything and everything. Much as I like Clemmens, he's wrong on this count.

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Always look upstream.

Ummmmm

And your objection is.......?

You've just proven the point...Conjecture is not science.

Thats the whole point Sammy is trying to make, and I from posting it. Perhaps you should read it again?

Or maybe Al Gore did read it, and like you just does'nt get it.

Am I a Lion?... No, I think I'ma tellin' the truth.

BarnStormer

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Thursday, September 6, 2007 8:43 AM

OK, It seems that Twain quote is not understood by all. So follow this link for a tutorial relating to what Twain has put into words with a humorous bent.

http://www.public.iastate.edu/~cfehr/201%20n%20Popper%202002.htm

I stand by what I said about some peoples sense of humor or lack thereof.

Am I a Lion?... No, I think I'ma tellin' the truth.

BarnStormer

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Thursday, September 6, 2007 8:53 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"Al Gore should have read this

Snort Snort Just a bit of Snark can carry you thru a whole day. Sometimes I just crack my self up.. I stand by what I said about some peoples sense of humor or lack thereof."

Yeah well, don't quit your day job.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Thursday, September 6, 2007 9:16 AM