UF student tased at John Kerry speech by AURaptor

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Being boor is a taze-able crime.

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 4:48 AM

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Being boor is a taze-able crime.

You of all people had better hope not.

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 5:04 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Being boor is a taze-able crime.

Cites please.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 5:08 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"No, it ain't funny - never will be, and while we're talking thought experiments, watch a couple hours of Television and jot down a mark on a notepad every time the "Humor" comes at the misery or physical pain of someone else, and you will have answered why Frem hates TV and doesn't watch it."

Hello,

I found this, and similar sentiments, to be odd.

Most humor comes at the point of something unfortunate. Comedy has come at someone's expense from its inception. You may not like TV, but as far back as the 14th century Cantebury Tales, (just to use something I actually read) humor springs from something awful.

A more contemporary example might be the (I know you don't watch TV, but bear with me) Seinfeld show, where crippling psychological flaws cause Seinfeld and friends to experience an inability to deal with society and to socialize productively with others.

Or, if you want a literary example, try Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange Land. The title character spent a long time trying to figure out why humans laugh. He concluded that it was because they didn't want to cry.

And I suspect, at its heart, that's why screams of fright, pain, and showmanship combine to provide the chorus to a rap video. Because the creator wanted to lighten the mood, and other people preferred to laugh than to cry.

Nothing diabolical or sinister there, in my opinion.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 5:36 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Being boor is a taze-able crime.

You of all people had better hope not.

I think rue is referring to wild boor, as in wild boor hunting. But it's not a good idea to taze a wild boor though. Unless you want to risk being goored.

Yes. Yes I went there.

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Most humor comes at the point of something unfortunate. Comedy has come at someone's expense from its inception. You may not like TV, but as far back as the 14th century Cantebury Tales, (just to use something I actually read) humor springs from something awful.

Humor has always been a way of addressing human suffering. So is tragedy for that manner, but the difference is that in a tragedy the human suffering has a tragic ending, comedy doesn’t. So a well-deserving antagonist forced to the floor and tazed while he utters arrogant comments to the police but ultimately walks away unharmed and even makes light of the event to the police afterward is fabulously funny. And even funnier when it is placed to Monty Python.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 6:16 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Most people here don't seem to know what a boor is. They think it's either a mis-spelling of bore a dull person, or a mis-spelling of boar meaning a wild pig. If you don't know it, I suggest you look it up.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 6:22 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Upon reflection, I've decided that the best outcome of the incident would have been as follows.

About the time Mr. Meyer makes his "sucking dick" remark, his mother comes running down the aisle.

"Andrew William Meyer!" she yells. "Who taught you to talk like that? Come here, young man!"

Mrs. Meyer then proceeds to bend Andrew William over her knee and administer a firm spanking.

"Don't spank me, Ma!" He whimpers.

She then grabs him by the earlobe and drags him up the aisle and out of the venue, muttering.

"just wait 'til your father hears about this! How could you embarass the family that way? You'll find that you're not to old to be grounded, you bad boy!"

And the crowd cheers.

Now... I reckon I can't disagree with that thought.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 6:40 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Most people here don't seem to know what a boor is. They think it's either a mis-spelling of bore a dull person, or a mis-spelling of boar meaning a wild pig. If you don't know it, I suggest you look it up.

Is this an ad homonym attack, suggesting that 'most people here' don't understand the differing meanings of words pronounced pretty much the same, even though they may be spelled differently?

Should I bore you with my tale of looking a huge Prussian hog - a wild boar who was being a boor by acting course and rude - down the bore of my rifle? Fortunately, the animal control guy (he was a Boer from South Africa. His wife just bore him a son) came and bore him off and I didn't have to bore a hole through him.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 6:45 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

But boor is not pronounced either like bore or boar (which are pronounced the same) or like Boer, which, when pronounced in its native tongue is a two-syllable word.

No ad hominem, it was clearly in evidence here: "I think rue is referring to wild boor, as in wild boor hunting."

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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 6:57 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Anthony, odd they may be, but it's my experience that I just view the world from a slightly different angle, is all - ain't nothin wrong with that, multiple viewpoints on a situation can show it clearer, or come up with solutions a single one wouldn't have.

It's not like anyone is gonna force me to watch TV, mind, so by choice I don't - I don't personally find it very funny, sure, most humor comes at someones expense, but much of what I catch from other folks viewing seems to blur or even cross the line into downright sadism, something I find pretty chilling, along with sensationalist TV stuff that brings to mind "The Running Man" as a place where it seems to be going.

One thing that kills humor of this type for me is having been on the short end of similar situations in real life - I used to find Dilbert downright hilarious, but then I married the Fremgirl, who works 8-10 hours a day in the middle-upper corporate echelons, and it went from amusing to upsetting.

I guess it stops being funny, when it starts being you.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 7:26 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
But boor is not pronounced either like bore or boar (which are pronounced the same) or like Boer, which, when pronounced in its native tongue is a two-syllable word.

No ad hominem, it was clearly in evidence here: "I think rue is referring to wild boor, as in wild boor hunting."

But I didn't say 'ad hominem'.

Quote:
Is this an ad homonym attack...

You might want to look up the definition of 'homonym'.

Thank you for once again verifying that you have absolutely no sense of humor.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 7:55 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

I have a great sense of humor when someone is actually funny. But your 'jokes' are the 'bully' kind that end up with the punch line 'what's the matter, can't you take a joke ?' Not funny at all. Just a junior-high attempt at provoking.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 7:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Most people here don't seem to know what a boor is. They think it's either a mis-spelling of bore a dull person, or a mis-spelling of boar meaning a wild pig. If you don't know it, I suggest you look it up.

I think everyone here does know what a boor is, but as Geezer has so humorous pointed out, you have no sense of humor. OR perhaps you are a bore?

Not only do you have no sense of humor, but you’re entrenched with these dishonest arguments. No one has stated that rude people should be tazed. Nor was Mr. Don’t-taze-me-dude tazed for being rude, but rather for fighting with police.

But paronomasia is always funny.

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 8:06 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

has so humorous (sic) pointed out

UUhhmm, if you're going to get picky about delivery you need to check your grammar.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 8:08 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Does ANYONE have ANYTHING actually topical to contribute ? Finn, BDN, Geezer ??

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 8:14 AM

Actually I’m not picky about delivery, I was just innocently playing on a word for humorous effect. Why are you so devoid of humor!? What happened to you as a child?

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 8:24 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Does ANYONE have ANYTHING actually topical to contribute ? Finn, BDN, Geezer ??

Is there something we left out? It seems to me this discussion has run its course, and ended with light banter at your expense.

And no one accused me of murdering millions of people. That’s a good thread, in my book.

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 8:36 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Actually Rue... yes.
I been sittin here thinkin about it on my lunch break, at the moment.
(Did I mention my love of unsecured/poorly secured wireless nodes ?)

Someone above said something on the nature of he wasn't gonna go peaceably if they had asked him - and that's ate at me a bit, and the question then becomes...

Does that preclude even asking him ?

Does "He was gonna resist anyway" justify an unprovoked roughing up of a crime suspect ?

The idea that he would not have shut up and left if asked/ordered to do so is pure conjecture, as are all our assumptions above the motives of all involved, as is my counter-conjecture that the cops were looking for an incident too.

Alla that, it's prettymuch second guessing and armchair quarterbacking, completely academic in that apparently he was never given the *opportunity* to do so - so we do not KNOW, and never will, because that choice - to leave of his own power and free will, was never given or offered to him in the first place.

Everything after that moment, where they laid hands on him, becomes completely academic, and viewed from that angle, the cops are ultimately fully responsible for everything that followed, because they initiated hostilities without warning or appropriate cause.

I dunno bout the rest of you, but citizen to citizen, if you came up on my blindside as I am speaking at a public event, and laid hands on ME like that, I would kick your ass or at least give a fairly decent account of myself in the trying.

What we've been doing, is trying to determine who did what in a multi-car pileup, instead of determining the root cause of the pile-up in the first place - so step back away from the situation for a moment, and look at just that moment in time and ponder it.

That's where the blame lies, you ask me.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 8:42 AM

FREMDFIRMA

And no one accused me of murdering millions of people. That’s a good thread, in my book.

So it WAS you with the water trucks and the wave machine when Noah wanted to go surfing!

Bastard!

Oh that was just toooo easy, I couldn't possibly resist, imma bad bad man, yes...

-F

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 8:51 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

And then there's this:

Woman is Tasered Seven Times

....an attorney for the Up A Creek tavern, said a list of employees who witnessed what happened in the bar, leading to Gill being escorted out, has been turned over to investigators. He said the tavern is a respectable establishment and "they can't have people in there making a ruckus."

Quote:
Heidi Gill admits she had been drinking at a bar in Warren, Ohio, and gotten into a "disagreement" with a bartender earlier this month. But she said she didn't deserve to have a police officer use a Taser gun on her multiple times.

Video footage from the police cruiser shows Gill, 38, crawling on the ground while the officer stands over her with the stun gun. She's screaming wildly. At one point, officer Rich Kovach shoves her with his foot as she struggles.

• Taser International Inc., the company that makes the device, warns law enforcement agencies that "prolonged or continuous exposure" to the shock may lead to medical risks such as cumulative exhaustion and breathing impairment and even heart damage.

www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/26/tasered.woman/index.html

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 9:10 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

So apparently the police should adapt the Qui Chang Kane method of handling disruptive people; ignore all provication until it reaches the level at which deadly force is required.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 9:12 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Well, there is till quite a bit to discuss that's topical. The first point - no one has quite come up with a valid reason for the police to move in on the man.

Here are some examples:

AURAPTOR
I think the kid had it comin' to him, personally.
When asked to leave, he wouldn't
The student wasn't arrested for asking an annoying question ... this clown went WAY over the line in hogging the mic
he had 2 MORE questions, and that's when security was called for

JRC
then commences to get belligerent

JONGSSTRAW
the kid was being a disruptive jerk
The police and authorities cannot allow a clearly unstable hooligan to run roughshot and make demands of Kerry to answer his stupid questions

FINN MAC CUMHAL
police were there to protect freedom of speech
difference between a protestor, and an asshole throwing a tantrum
de facto eliminate all freedom of expression but their own
man was trespassing
He was being disruptive

FLETCH2
hog the mic and monopolise the time
this guy has the right to shout people down

LEADB
reasonable for the venue owner to request the student to be removed

Geezer
provication

Clearly, this man was NOT disrupting anyone's freedom of speech as both Kerry's speech and the Q & A were already over. He wasn't posing a threat. There is no evidence he was trespassing. And the police are under no obligation to remove a person from a public forum if there is no illegal act.

This man was rude, obnoxious, and loud, but not a person who needed to be physically removed by police for safety reasons.

So, anyone want to try some real answers as to why the police should have moved on him in the first place ?

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 9:17 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Hi FremD

Shadow dancing. So someone has made up a name for it. I've done it many times. I guess that's one of the bennies of living in a bad locale, you learn all sorts of odd things.

drug addled patient wanders from emergency psych down the hall in the direction of the door
'you guys got anything here'?

me, moving to the door to block entry and hide co-workers actions (all of whom are at least a foot and a half shorter than me)
'no, we're not the pharmancy'

patient 'casually' attemps to look past shoulder
'don't you have chemicals?'

me, moving to block his view
'just like bleach and salt and stuff' (and lots of expensive equipment for specialized testing, but, no matter ...)

patient, no longer quite able to be cool, fidgets with hands, tries to sidestep
'where's your security? you got no security?'

me (still blocking view of co-workers on phone to police desk at entry)
'yeah, this is a county hopital, we got county police'

patient (losing it)
'you know I could be killing you ... or something'

me (assessing no weapon and an better than even match - planting feet - subtle 'just try me' attitude style) ...
patient wanders off as ...
police come thundering in the back door

***************************************************************
sometimes all you have to do is stall them at the pass ...

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 10:17 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Geezer
provication

Actually more like 'deliberate provocation, attempting to elicit a confrontation, probably physical.' I might also characterize it as 'looking for trouble'.

But tell me, Rue. Did you have any problem at all with Mr. Meyer's actions? Was he totally blameless, in your opinion?

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 10:22 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

As blameless as any loudmouth in the public square - which is, blameless.

***************************************************************
___________
| JOHN 3:16 |
|_________|

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 1:20 PM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
As blameless as any loudmouth in the public square - which is, blameless.

So even if he intended to start a physical confrontation, still blameless?

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 1:26 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

That wasn't the case.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:17 PM

LEADB

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Actually Rue... yes.
I been sittin here thinkin about it on my lunch break, at the moment.
(Did I mention my love of unsecured/poorly secured wireless nodes ?)

Someone above said something on the nature of he wasn't gonna go peaceably if they had asked him - and that's ate at me a bit, and the question then becomes...

Does that preclude even asking him ?

Absolutely not; and concurrence with that position is the main reason I spent the time I did trying to work out what mistakes the officers may have made.

Does anyone disagree that 'The student should have been asked to leave?' (Granting that perhaps he was; but to date I haven't seen anything that supports he was.)

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:22 PM

LEADB

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
[ ... ]
LEADB
reasonable for the venue owner to request the student to be removed

Ok, I'm willing to amend (and I believe I did) that it was probably unwise for the venue owner to make the request, but within his legal right. I believe I also asked if anyone had firm understanding of the case law. Are you confident the venue owner did not have the legal right to have a disruptive attendee removed. In this case, disruptive in as much as Kerry had not left the stage and was still talking (and actually attempting to answer the question put to him).

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:30 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I'm surprised no one commented on the CNN footage. Here we have an "officer" who on the one hand is yelling at this lady to stay down and on the other hand is continuously tasing her. And all she's trying to do is crawl away. Tell me if you're getting zapped every three seconds or so, you gonna lie still??? I DON'T THINK SO!

The Taser just seems to have become the all-purpose tool for countering resistance of ANY kind, whether or not the person presents a threat and whether or not the taser itself is provoking the resistance.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Well, there is till quite a bit to discuss that's topical. The first point - no one has quite come up with a valid reason for the police to move in on the man.

Actually I see quite a number of people who have come up with valid reasons. Enough for me to consider that issue closed, anyway. He was rude and disruptive and the Director asked that he be removed. That’s sufficient for security to demand him to leave.

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:57 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

LeadB

This was a student public affair at a state university - not a private speech in a privately-owned setting.

http://media.www.browndailyherald.com/media/storage/paper472/news/2007
/09/26/CampusWatch/U.Of-Florida.Tasing.Incident.Garnering.National.Attention-2992542.shtml

"On Sept. 17, University of Florida student Andrew Meyer was tasered as he and his classmates listened to a forum address by Senator John Kerry, D-Mass.
Florida Department of Law Enforcement will conduct an independent investigation of the incident"

Kerry was invited to speak by the Student Government's Accent Speakers' Bureau
http://sg.ufl.edu/accent/whatisaccent.htm
ACCENT Speaker's Bureau is the largest, student-run, speaker's bureau in the nation.
As an agency of Student Government, the ACCENT Chair is directly supervised by the Student Body President.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:59 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"rude and disruptive"

But not physically threatening or doing anything illegal. Like I said, the police need better training to know when they have a legal basis for action.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:10 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/18/student.tasered.ap/index.html?iref=mpstoryvi
ew
This is a little clearer.

They did NOT ask the student to leave b4 they grabbed him.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by leadb:
Does anyone disagree that 'The student should have been asked to leave?' (Granting that perhaps he was; but to date I haven't seen anything that supports he was.)

Well, actually the police did ask him to leave. According to the incident report, Officer Mallo informed Meyer that she wanted to speak with him outside. She was even gracious enough to offer Meyer the opportunity to ask his question to Kerry. But of course Meyer was intent on abusing this leniency.

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:20 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I can't hear it in the video, can yu?

What I see is that they touched him, and THEN she repeated something several times. Hard to hear what she said. I have a couple of possible interpretations but I don't want to bias.
---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
But not physically threatening or doing anything illegal. Like I said, the police need better training to know when they have a legal basis for action.

Physically threatening is debatable, but the police don’t need to wait, nor necessarily should they, until he starts directly threatening violence on other people. And the police had every legal right to remove him. In fact, the mistake that I see the police made was being too nice. As soon as Meyer starting resisting, they should have pulled him to the ground and demanded his compliance with sharply and loudly, if he did not comply immediately he should have been tased then and there. The police should never have allowed him to control the arrest long enough to drag the police up and down the aisle.

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
I can't hear it in the video, can yu?

I don’t know. I didn’t hear it the first few times I watched it and I’m tired of watching so I’m not going to search for it right now. But I’m not surprised that I didn’t hear it. There was a lot of noise and I doubt any of the microphones were designed to pick up a whole lot. It's in the police report, and I have little to no reason to believe the police are lying.

I watched the new video you just posted and I can hear a female voice saying what sounds like what Officer Mallo claimed to say in the incident report. It's hard to hear her over Meyer's disruptive and pejorative comments.

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:30 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

So mean while what about this video of a woman who is desperately crawling to get away while an "officer of the law" contiuously tasers her?

www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/26/tasered.woman/index.html#cnnSTCVideo
Do YOU think you would "stay down" if someone was zapping you every couple of seconds?? NOT BLOODY LIKELY!

Quote:
There was a lot of noise and I doubt any of the microphones were designed to pick up a whole lot.

That's the advantage of the cnn video: it was taken from the FRONT of the room where all the mikes are, and where they first laid hands on this kid.

Quote:
It's in the police report, and I have little to no reason to believe the police are lying.

PPFFFWWAAAHHH!! GAAAAK! You ARE kidding, right?

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
PPFFFWWAAAHHH!! GAAAAK! You ARE kidding, right?

No. I am not.

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:40 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

SignyM

the reason why the pro-taser perves aren't talking about the woman being tased is b/c they're jacking-off over it.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:45 PM

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
SignyM
the reason why the pro-taser perves aren't talking about the woman being tased is b/c they're jacking-off over it.

Elegantly put as always Rue.
I personally do not see the relevance of Signy's scenario. It has nothing to do with this case, IMHO. Perhaps I should link some instances where the use of a taser saved lives. Would that change your mind?

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:46 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Finn

"According to the incident report, Officer Mallo informed Meyer that she wanted to speak with him outside." And what are you going to believe - a cya report or your own lying ears ?

"police don’t need to wait, nor necessarily should they, until he starts directly threatening violence on other people." Really ? Then what should they respond to ? The way he cuts his hair ? Whether or not he wears glasses ?

I'm really curious, b/c you seem to think that being somewhat loud and verbose (certainly not angry or threatening) and being impolite is a good enough reason.

Actually, never mind. I think your whole mindset is there for all to see: "Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system." Yeah, democracy and freedom suck, don't they ?

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 4:17 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

In regards to the woman being tased repeatedly while trying to get up: Please start a new topic on this subject, as the two incidents are completely independent of each other. We have been trying to dissect the Kerry incident, and I've no doubt we can have a seperate 100 response analysis of the other incident in a separate thread. I have not even glanced at the link because it has no bearing on the specifics of this case, and I'm trying to stay on-focus and on-topic in this thread.

In regards to the Kerry Kid not being warned - He was asked to relinquish the mic and loudly refused, demanding to ask his question. He then proceeded to ask his question(s) and make his statement(s). Then his mic was cut off and he complained loudly about that. Perhaps they should have asked a second time for him to relinquish the mic, and made it clear that there would be physical consequences (removal) for failing to comply, before the officers actually flanked him and started to escort him out. I will say that if I were the officers on scene, I would have clearly explained the consequences for non-compliance before advancing on the subject. I have no evidence that any officers did so. If they did, it's not audible on any video I've seen.

Once the situation devolved into resisted physical restraint, I still feel the taser was the safest way to secure the subject.

However, I completely understand and sympathise with the position of those who do not think the taser was necessary or recommended. I hope a similar argument takes place at the University, and I hope a compromise policy can be reached about the use of force in the future. A good policy would do its best to ensure the safety of both officers and subjects in these situations. A good policy would not force officers into unnecessary physical grappling events, but also make clear rules about warning a subject of law violation and potential consequence before ANY physical contact occurs if at all possible.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 4:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
I personally do not see the relevance of Signy's scenario. It has nothing to do with this case, IMHO. Perhaps I should link some instances where the use of a taser saved lives. Would that change your mind?

Whatever its relevance, it seems to be suppressing rue’s intelligence.

I’m not very sure that we are going to be able to have an intelligent discussion on this new taser incident. It was all I could do to keep from being accused of wanting to beat baby seals in the other two, and rue is already defining the irrational atmosphere of this discussion.

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 4:31 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

I understand the impulse to be moderate. But it's not a reasonable approach in this instance.

No matter how many times I watch, how many different angles - the student was not either being a threat or doing anything illegal. At the worst he was loud, slighly crude and verbose.

In a supposedly free society where the mentally ill are left to fend for themselves b/c they can't legally be taken into custody - is police force the appropriate response to impoliteness ?

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 4:36 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Finn

I think the irrational atmosphere was set early on with this, to which you amazingly seem to have no objection:

"I cannot imagine why anybody would ever appear to be a threat to Kerry. Since the guy has never really taken any firm positions on anything, why would anybody have a problem with him? What was his speech about.....voting against military spending perhaps? He doesn't ever vote to spend a dime for our military, so no surprise there...he'd rather vote to spend taxpayer money on whatever his big union donors tell him to...not that there's anything wrong with that, but Kerry is such a Senate blob, a transluscent piece of protoplasmic flotsom, it's really hard to grasp what the kid was tasered for."

or maybe it was this

"I think anyone that goes to a Kerry rally should be tased....regardless if they are pro or con Kerry...fucking think about it......"

or perhaps you mean this

"I think the real tragedy of this situation is that all the electrical current that was wasted on this kid could have been better used if it had directed at Kerry's re-charge bolts in his neck as was the original plan....that's the real reason the cops had tasers with them....to re-charge Kerry in case he ran out of juice during the event. I hope he made it home ok without a fresh-up zap, and I hope Theresa had enough reserve juice in her neck bolts to share some voltage with her loving husband."

Yeah - let's have a BIG complaint about irrational discussion.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 4:37 PM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
That wasn't the case.

Looking at the videos which showed all of Mr. Meyer's actions, not just those after the mic was turned off, he was aggressive, confrontational, and not responsive to earlier attempts by event staff (not the cops) to request calmer conduct.

In many situations similar to this, violence initiated by the aggressive, confrontational (let's call it A/C) person ensues. Law enforcement is pretty much forced to assume worst-case scenario, or else just be standing around when the A/C person becomes violent and injures someone.

Is it your opinion that the police on the scene shouldn't do anything until someone gets hurt? You didn't seem to have any problem with police arriving quickly when you were confronted with a drugged-out but non-violent patient. Should the event staff at the Kerry function have less protection?

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 4:45 PM