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Covering up the truth actually serves an important purpose in that it allows the underlying truth to be presented to the public without confusing facts that can only serve to harm the war effort.... I would suggest the truth is better off not known

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Originally posted by SignyM:
It seems so straightforward to me! Read them carefully and support them, because that's what's standing between you and prosecutors like Hero.

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Fortunately there is a crap-load of precedent establishing just what Due Process is. Essentially a hearing, an appeal, the right to cross examine, to have counsel present (and sometimes appointed), a neutral magistrate/judge, a gavel, a glass of water, a cushioned seat, a recording (or at least one available if requested), notice, the court's subpoena power (within reason), right to view the state's evidence, rules of procedure, funny whigs (ok, that one they got rid of in our country), etc. All of those things to some degree or another must be present to constitute Due Process.

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most of you crazy-talkers (and teenagers) out there believe in the right to get drunk, drive drunk, steal, and hurt people in the worst possible ways. I have a different interpretation. Sure, you have the right to do all that...I then have the privilage of putting you all in jail so you can get to know each other...intimately.

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Originally posted by AnthonyT:

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most of you crazy-talkers (and teenagers) out there believe in the right to get drunk, drive drunk, steal, and hurt people in the worst possible ways. I have a different interpretation. Sure, you have the right to do all that...I then have the privilage of putting you all in jail so you can get to know each other...intimately.

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Hello,

I don't think you can lump 'most people' unhappy with the system into the same category as criminals who wish to 'drive drunk, steal, and hurt people in the worst possible ways.'

It's disturbing to me that you categorize people who yearn for fairer trials as 'crazy talkers.'

It is also disturbing to me that a State Prosecuter believes that rape is a viable part of the prison experience, and that you put people in jail so that they can endure that experience.

--Anthony

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Originally posted by rue:
How about better trial rules ? Or letting the jury ask questions ? There are ways to make trials 'fairer' without eliminating juries ... (strawman)

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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Originally posted by SignyM:
Part of the problem is that often-times the case if presented as if one person is the "innocent vicitim" and the other person is the "evil perp". But a lot of times both people are guilty to some extent.

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Always look upstream.

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Originally posted by Fletch2:
The law says you can't kill someone, not that you can't kill them if they don't deserve it.

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Originally posted by rue:
OOC, were you one of the people who supported tasering for impoliteness ? I forget.

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Originally posted by rue:
Fletch2

"Well ultimately all laws in a society are backed by the treat of force because you can escallate even something as minor as jaywalking into a force issue. Since I want laws to be followed then ultimately I condone the use of force to uphold them."


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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Originally posted by rue:
Well, (obviously) I was thinking about the taser incident. The 'rules' for the event weren't laws. They were just an agreement to make sure everyone had an equal chance to ask their question and keep the program timely. Since the program was over, the 'rules' no longer applied. So on the one hand you think that a person breaking no laws and posing no threat can 'provoke' the police to justifiable violence. But then you also think there is NO way a private person can 'provoke' another to justifiable violence. I see a double standard.

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The organiser wanted him gone and when Meyer refused I suspect he was guilty of criminal treaspass. If that is not true please tell me so I can use the soft furnishing departement of Sears as a hotel next time I travel.

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Originally posted by rue:
No inconsistencies.

Here's one example where I think one could be accused of 'assault' but that it would be based on provocation - a person (non-violently) backs you into a corner all the while yelling at you. You, fearing for your health, decide that catching said person off-guard might be your best way out, so out of the blue you throw a punch in your attempt to get away. Now, as the first person to make physical contact, you're technically liable for assault. OTOH the 'victim' wasn't innocent. So I can see how JohnQ citizen could be 'provoked' into violence.

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Well as always you 1) take remarks out of context and ...

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Originally posted by SignyM:

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The organiser wanted him gone and when Meyer refused I suspect he was guilty of criminal treaspass. If that is not true please tell me so I can use the soft furnishing departement of Sears as a hotel next time I travel.

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I think this was addressed at length. Both the facilty AND the event were "public". As such, the organizer did not have the authority to have anyone removed because he wasn't "breaking a law".

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Originally posted by Fletch2:
Well he's inside a building and someone owns that building even if it is a university campus. Are you really saying that I can squat in any university building and they never have the right to throw me out?

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Originally posted by rue:
The pretend students who never were admitted got thrown out, but that was for using the food service and dorm rooms without paying.

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Originally posted by rue:
When one attends a public university one has the option of living in a dorm or not. If you choose to live in a dorm you pay for the living space. It's an extra service you're paying for. If you live in that living space without paying the fee then you're stealing that service from the state.

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Originally posted by rue:
When campus protestors took over buildings in the 70's they removed them by force - but then it was a question of what to charge them with. In the one instance I know of they were charged with interfering with government operations.

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"In the United States, most public universities are state universities founded and operated by state government entities. Every U.S. state has at least one public university to its name, and the largest states have more than a dozen. This is partly as a result of the 1862 Morrill Land-Grant Acts, which gave each eligible state 30,000 acres (120 km²) of federal land upon which to establish educational institutions. Many U.S. public universities began as teacher training institutions and eventually were expanded into comprehensive universities. Examples include Missouri State University, formerly Southwest Missouri State Teachers College; Sam Houston State University, formerly Sam Houston State Teachers College; State University of New York at Cortland, formerly Cortland State Teachers College; and the University of North Alabama, formerly Florence State Teachers College.

States generally charge higher tuition to out-of-state students, a practice which the United States Supreme Court has deemed constitutional because the state is acting as a market participant providing a service, rather than protecting a fundamental right. It has never been determined whether the U.S. Constitution would allow the federal government to establish a federal university system; the only federally chartered universities that currently exist are those under the auspices of the U.S. military, such as West Point.

Historically, most of the prestigious universities in the United States have been private. Some public universities are also highly prestigious and increasingly selective; Richard Moll designated such prestigious public universities Public Ivies. State support of public universities has been declining, forcing many public universities to seek private support. Some professional graduate programs in law, business, and medicine rely almost solely on private funding."

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