Aurap..siggy ..it some CFR... by kaneman

America loves a winner!

why the f*ck am I being dragged into this ? Granted, some of what Ron Paul says is spot on, but he's got too much tainted meat in his stew for me to try. No thank you.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, October 26, 2007 1:08 AM

Yeah, that whole pesky freedom thing, and actual rights for all people, even the ones who disagree with *you*.

Yep, I can see where that'd be unpalatable to you in the extreme.

-F

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Friday, October 26, 2007 2:08 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Yeah, that whole pesky freedom thing, and actual rights for all people, even the ones who disagree with *you*.

Yep, I can see where that'd be unpalatable to you in the extreme.

-F

*Swing, and a miss!*

C'mon, you got 2 more tries at the plate.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, October 26, 2007 3:52 AM

i think most of the posters here are actually detainees at Guantanamo. I don't understand what the fuck these whiners are always harping about...rights, freedom...yeah so fucking what? We've all got the same rights as ever, and the same freedom to be assholes as ever. Robert Redford goes to Italy to bash America and speaks out about loss of rights...what the fuck is he ranting 'bout? The good part is that his stupid anti-American propaganda movie is DOA, just like Scorcese's piece of shit anti-American movie Rendition that has utterly bombed. Americans don't wanna go see that pile of lies. Only Hollywood pseudo-elitists and liberal tree-hugging America hating lemmings do. Semi-human fire hydrant Rosie O'Donnell spews her 911 inside job by Bush horseshit every day all over the airwaves and nobody has thrown her sorry, dirty ass in jail,,,so again...what the fuck are these whiny, pathetic retards squawking about?

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Friday, October 26, 2007 5:02 AM

Great post Jongstraw!

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Friday, October 26, 2007 5:55 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

whiners
assholes
ranting
stupid anti-American propaganda
piece of shit anti-American
pile of lies
pseudo-elitists
liberal tree-hugging America hating lemmings
semi-human fire hydrant
horseshit
sorry, dirty ass
whiny, pathetic retards
squawking

THIS is the person who calls for politeness? Or is this just false outrage?

Oh, I get it! Because that's different

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Friday, October 26, 2007 6:20 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

You just don't recognize politeness when you see it - it's the NEW politeness (TM).

***************************************************************
Trademark Republican Party, USA. Politeness not guaranteed in all cases. See RNC for details. Restrictions may apply.

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Friday, October 26, 2007 7:59 AM

removed due to waterboarding

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Friday, October 26, 2007 8:05 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Oh, so you're a semen-swilling retard who likes getting fucked hard by the right wing, and would rather exchange mindless insults than ideas?

Got it!

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Friday, October 26, 2007 8:11 AM

voluntarily removed

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Friday, October 26, 2007 8:22 AM

voluntarily removed

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Friday, October 26, 2007 8:31 AM

OLDENGLANDDRY

YEEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAAAW.

Nothing funnier than watching Yanks taking swings at each other.
Roll on the next Civil War.

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Friday, October 26, 2007 8:48 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Nice one Jongsstraw. Standing behind your words like that! (So, how quick CAN you hit the "delete" key, hmmm?

) For the record, Jongsstraw was calling for politness from our politicians, NOT from the FFF RWE posters.

And now, back to our regularly scheduled thoughtful discussion...

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Friday, October 26, 2007 9:52 AM

CHRISISALL

I think many of the posters here are actually workers at the White House. I don't understand what the f**k these whiners are always harping about...terrorists, threats...yeah so f***ing what? We've all got the same threats as ever, and the same need to be as*holes as ever. Condoleeza Rice goes to Saudi Arabia to bash Iran and speaks out about loss of security...what the f**k is she ranting 'bout? The good part is that her stupid anti-Arab propaganda is DOA, just like the government's piece of sh*t anti-terrorist WMD assessment that has utterly bombed. Americans don't wanna go see that pile of lies. Only Halliburton pseudo-elitists and Neo-con America-using carpetbaggers do. Semi-human fire hydrant Rice spews her 911 Iraq connection job by Saddam horsesh*t every day all over the airwaves and nobody has thrown her sorry, dirty ass in jail,,,so again...what the f**k are these whiny, pathetic retards squawking about?

The other side of the coin Chrisisall

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Friday, October 26, 2007 12:48 PM

Amusing that this might be, a flamewar at dawn with loaded feather pillows and all that...

Seriously Rap - what's your issues then ?

Not bashin, seriously asking what, specifically, makes the guy unpalatable to ya.

-F

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Friday, October 26, 2007 2:38 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Nice video.

Since we have an open primary, mebbe I'll vote for Ron Paul.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Friday, October 26, 2007 2:56 PM

MISSTRESSAHARA

Wow.......... this place get's dangerous fast.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
~Peter*Peter*Power>~re-peater~

HEROES IS MY CRACK!

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

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Friday, October 26, 2007 3:02 PM

FREDGIBLET

Quote:
Originally posted by Misstressahara:
Wow.......... this place get's dangerous fast.

You shoulda been here during the last election. Truth be told I've been here for a while and there's a lot less people in RWED then there used to be, there's been more than one person that used to be on a lot that's bailed because it's degenerated into a war zone.

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Friday, October 26, 2007 3:06 PM

KANEMAN

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
why the f*ck am I being dragged into this ? Granted, some of what Ron Paul says is spot on, but he's got too much tainted meat in his stew for me to try. No thank you.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

Because you spout neo-con crap around here since forever, You are the enemy now.....RP isn't running in the Dem primaries. The anti Hillary videos will come then.....Thin skin?

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Friday, October 26, 2007 3:11 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Amusing that this might be, a flamewar at dawn with loaded feather pillows and all that...

Seriously Rap - what's your issues then ?

Not bashin, seriously asking what, specifically, makes the guy unpalatable to ya.

-F

I agree we should abolish the IRS, and replace it with the Fair Tax.

I'm for controling ( not closing ) the borders of our country, but not against tracking terrorist from outside and who they contact.

Just so you know...

I voted for Pat Buchanan in the '92 primary.

I voted for the late Harry Browne in the 2000 primary.

I don't trust Ron Paul. He speaks a good game, but only some of the time. He's completly off his nut in other situations. I don't care for him being so closely associated w/ folks who deny the Holocaust. He seems blind to the Islamo-fascist threat to our nation and the world.

I do not take Ron Paul seriously as a candidate. Nor will I - ever.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, October 26, 2007 3:13 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
why the f*ck am I being dragged into this ? Granted, some of what Ron Paul says is spot on, but he's got too much tainted meat in his stew for me to try. No thank you.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

Because you spout neo-con crap around here since forever, You are the enemy now.....RP isn't running in the Dem primaries. The anti Hillary videos will come then.....Thin skin?

What 'neo con' crap have I ever spouted ? Please inform.

Thanx.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Saturday, October 27, 2007 5:29 AM

That's pretty vague Rap, if you'd care to share, I would be interested in the specifics.

Not tryin to hang you out to dry or nothin, I just really do wanna know where you part ways with him, is all.

As for talkin a good game, far as I know, he's always put his money where his mouth is when it comes to the vote - that comforts me a lot, on his credibility.

-F

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Saturday, October 27, 2007 6:26 AM

America loves a winner!

Where can I find an objective list of Ron Paul's position on the various topics ? I know there's a site or 2 out there, I'm just not finding it. I'd prefer something OTHER than his home page, or one promoting only Ron Paul.

I'll get back to ya after I've done a full search on his views. Thanks.

"Hillary tried to get a million dollars for the Woodstock museum. I understand it was a major cultural and pharmaceutical event. I couldn't attend. I was tied up at the time." - John McCain

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Saturday, October 27, 2007 9:23 AM

You could try here:
http://www.selectsmart.com/president/2008/comparethem.html

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Saturday, October 27, 2007 12:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Where can I find an objective list of Ron Paul's position on the various topics ? I know there's a site or 2 out there, I'm just not finding it....

Yeah... I feel your pain man. These days it's tough to find any information on candidates. First you have to spell their name right in the google seach box. Then you to click on a page link on the results page. Then you have to actually read the page! Geez... all those words.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Sunday, October 28, 2007 12:59 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Where can I find an objective list of Ron Paul's position on the various topics ? I know there's a site or 2 out there, I'm just not finding it....

Yeah... I feel your pain man. These days it's tough to find any information on candidates. First you have to spell their name right in the google seach box. Then you to click on a page link on the results page. Then you have to actually read the page! Geez... all those words.

SergeantX

Hey smartass, I did exactly that, and all I got was Ron Paul blog pages and pro Ron Paul sites. Not what I was looking for, pin head, so not very helpful. Try not being a total prick in EVERY post you make, and once in a while try being human.

"Hillary tried to get a million dollars for the Woodstock museum. I understand it was a major cultural and pharmaceutical event. I couldn't attend. I was tied up at the time." - John McCain

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, October 28, 2007 1:30 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by leadb:
You could try here:
http://www.selectsmart.com/president/2008/comparethem.html

Thanks LEADB. I was trying to recall this site as I had heard of it before. Very helpful.

I guess where Ron Paul loses me is when he blames the US for al Qaeda attacking us. I'm sorry, but I can't support any one for President who doesn't stand up for America. Admitting our flaws is one thing, but justifying the unjustifiable attacks of 9/11 is beyond the pale.

Same goes for the war in Iraq. You can disagree that we needed to go in, fine. But to cut and run and let everything we've done unravel over there, while BLAMING us at every step, is unconscionable. Again, not one I want leading our troops, or our country.

"Hillary tried to get a million dollars for the Woodstock museum. I understand it was a major cultural and pharmaceutical event. I couldn't attend. I was tied up at the time." - John McCain

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, October 28, 2007 2:32 AM

Most welcome; someone had posted that link earlier in RWED somewhere and I had saved it.

Rap - "I guess where Ron Paul loses me is when he blames the US for al Qaeda attacking us."
I consider such statements pure rhetoric. RP advocates -understanding- the enemy, not so we can get all mushy inside with self contempt or so we can pat the terrorists on the head and tell them "it's ok", but so we can take truly corrective action. If you would cite a specific instance where you feel RP is blaming the US for al Qaeda attacking us, I'd be happy to explain the difference (or at least, why I interpret it differently than you do).

While I disagree with much of the rest of your post, it's probably simplest to work one item at a time. My guess is you will either see where I'm coming from with a specific instance to discuss, or you won't.

Might be a nit, but the 'flopping aces' URL didn't work for me. Was there something important there?

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Sunday, October 28, 2007 3:24 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Try not being a total prick ...

I've tried. I really have. I dunno.... It just doesn't work for me, you know? You'll just have to love me for who I am.

Quote:
Originally posted by leadb:
Rap - "I guess where Ron Paul loses me is when he blames the US for al Qaeda attacking us."
I consider such statements pure rhetoric.

The word you're looking for is "demagoguery". The statement is designed to appeal to two types of people. First, the simpleton, who easily conflates terms like "blame" with any observation of a causal relationship. And second, the morally insecure, who can see no purpose for understanding underlying causes - other than to assign "blame".

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Sunday, October 28, 2007 4:37 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by leadb:
Most welcome; someone had posted that link earlier in RWED somewhere and I had saved it.

Rap - "I guess where Ron Paul loses me is when he blames the US for al Qaeda attacking us."
I consider such statements pure rhetoric. RP advocates -understanding- the enemy, not so we can get all mushy inside with self contempt or so we can pat the terrorists on the head and tell them "it's ok", but so we can take truly corrective action. If you would cite a specific instance where you feel RP is blaming the US for al Qaeda attacking us, I'd be happy to explain the difference (or at least, why I interpret it differently than you do).

While I disagree with much of the rest of your post, it's probably simplest to work one item at a time. My guess is you will either see where I'm coming from with a specific instance to discuss, or you won't.

Might be a nit, but the 'flopping aces' URL didn't work for me. Was there something important there?

The prior flopping aces url was simply a informal pic of Ron Paul wearing a tin foil hat, sitting at a pic nic table....just a humorous pic. Where RP says we were to blame for the 9/11 attacks comes from a debate where Rudi Giuliani responds rather forcefully.

working url here: http://www.floppingaces.net/2007/05/15/ron-paul-can-go-to-hell/index.h
tml

But taking that aside, and looking at his positions on most topics, I find myself agreeing with what he says. I just don't care for the guy, I can't explain it more.

"Hillary tried to get a million dollars for the Woodstock museum. I understand it was a major cultural and pharmaceutical event. I couldn't attend. I was tied up at the time." - John McCain

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, October 28, 2007 1:42 PM

KANEMAN

He doesn't blame us he blames our foreign policy for causing anti-American hatred in the middle east. The next day Michael scheuer(former head of CIA bin laden task force) backed RP up at a conference where RP gave Giuliani a book list to read for summer so he would be better able to debate Paul instead of going for the empty applause from kool-aid drinkers..

CNN account...

CBS account....

Actual conference....

Part2...

Part3....

Now you can see the truth...that is the head of CIA bin laden unit....or just go back to sleep, sllleeeeep, sleeeeeeeeeeep

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Sunday, October 28, 2007 2:07 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:
He doesn't blame us he blames our foreign policy for causing anti-American hatred in the middle east. The next day Michael scheuer(former head of CIA bin laden task force) backed RP up at a conference where RP gave Giuliani a book list to read for summer so he would be better able to debate Paul instead of going for the empty applause from kool-aid drinkers..

CNN account...

CBS account....

Actual conference....

Part2...

Part3....

Now you can see the truth...that is the head of CIA bin laden unit....or just go back to sleep, sllleeeeep, sleeeeeeeeeeep

I know OBL's stated reasons for the attacks of 9/11, and they're bogus. There's no legitimacy there, what so ever. The day I accept his reasons is the day we can all rape any women because of the way she dresses. " Hell, she had it comin' to her! " . Sorry, no sale here.

And don't give me this crap about " the turth" . You sound like one of those 9/11 Truther zombies, or worse, a fundamentalist Christian trying to convince me of the Creation story. I'm just not buying it.

Rudi might not be my 1st choice for President, but if it comes down to it, I'll pick him over Ron Paul. At least he'll stand up for America.

"Hillary tried to get a million dollars for the Woodstock museum. I understand it was a major cultural and pharmaceutical event. I couldn't attend. I was tied up at the time." - John McCain

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, October 28, 2007 4:27 PM

Just curious, did you listen to the first bit of this?

I think he explains the difference between pointing out a flaw in strategy Vs saying we invited the attack.

Let's put it in the rape example you are so fond of. Why might a rapist target a particular girl? Perhaps he does choose a target because she is wearing a long dress (hey, it takes all types). So, if a girl happens past this fellow wearing a long dress, has she invited the rape? Of course not. On the flip side, let's say an FBI team -understands- that the rapist is triggered by girls in long dresses. They might send an uncover agent through an area in a long dress to lure out the rapist and capture him.

Obviously, if the FBI had failed to understand the trigger, they might have been slower at capturing this particular rapist. The key is recognizing the problem, then putting in an effective response.

And never forget the saying 'Hold your friends close; hold your enemies closer.'

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Sunday, October 28, 2007 4:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:
He doesn't blame us ....

Thanks for posting that collection; it will come in handy. I've tucked it away for future reference.

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Sunday, October 28, 2007 5:31 PM

America loves a winner!

You're still legitimizing the terrorist's view point by acknowledging what it is he CLAIMS he doesn't like about us. We also must face the fact that Muslims don't see lying to non Muslims as any sort of a sin. So in reality, what ever OBL claims are his 'legitimate' reasons aren't worth the paper they're printed on.

"Hillary tried to get a million dollars for the Woodstock museum. I understand it was a major cultural and pharmaceutical event. I couldn't attend. I was tied up at the time." - John McCain

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, October 28, 2007 6:12 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

I don't believe in the holocaust.

Sure, I believe that people died, and very likely many of them were Jews, but it was nowhere near the number they said.

Hollywood has made it much larger than life and now to say anything "anti-semite" is a career killer, politically and otherwise. The Jews have far too much power because of this. They also happen to own hollywood which is no coincidence.

Do I have anything against the Jewish people? Of course not. My uncle is Jewish and he is one of my favorite family members to bullshit with at family gatherings. All I'm saying is that they've been milking that for 60 years and they've acquired an insane amout of power, wealth and immunity in this country because of it.

I don't know Ron Paul's point of view on this. If he even though half what I think on the issue, he's smart enough to not say a damn word about it because it would end his career in a second.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Sunday, October 28, 2007 6:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
You're still legitimizing the terrorist's view ...

No, he's not. Neither was Dr. Paul. Attempting to understanding the causes of war is not the same thing as legitimizing it, or justifying it. You can say why something happened without approving of it, or justifying it, or legitimizing it.

You seem to want to discount the reasons cited merely because the enemy has voiced them. I can see how this might be a concern, but these were complaints voiced for many, many years before 9/11. And it makes sense if you think about. How would you like it if the UN built military bases in your backyard. --- hold on.

Now, you no doubt noticed that I said their actions 'makes sense'. We can even understand them if we try to see the situation from their viewpoint. You'll also notice what I didn't say was that the actions were justified, or legitimate, or even sane. Sticking our heads in the sand and refusing to admit that our foreign policy failed us in regards to terrorism, that we've actively fanned the flames, will only prolong the problem.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Sunday, October 28, 2007 6:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I don't know Ron Paul's point of view on this. If he even though half what I think on the issue, he's smart enough to not say a damn word about it because it would end his career in a second.

I think he's smart enough not to buy into such a jackass opinion in the first place. You should spend a day at the Holocaust Museum in D.C., it's great fun.

I'm not at all happy with our one-sided support of Israel, but I think has more to do with Christian guilt over that fact that we refused to take Jewish refugees even as we saw the Holocaust happening. Regardless, pretending the Holocaust didn't happen, or saying you don't believe in it, puts you squarely in the flat-earther, lunar-faking, 9/11 truther, tin-foil hat crowd. Please don't drag Ron Paul in with you.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Sunday, October 28, 2007 7:16 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

I'm not dragging anyone with me. But there is no possible way that the Holocaust happened as the textbooks and Hollywood would have us believe. As I said before, I believe that there were people who died, many of them Jews, but not the millions of people who we've heard about for the last 60 years. How come nobody knew about it at the time? Why did we hear about it so much after the fact?

Just the power they have today because of the "poor jews" and their ordeal should make anyone suspicious. They have complete diplomatic and political immunity and they run this country now. That is why I don't believe that it happened. Read Pat Buchannon's newest book. He talks about it in there. Of course, he's smart enough not to say anything about the holocaust one way or the other and I have no idea what his beliefs are, but he mentions the neo-con / Jewish alliance and how it's political suicide to even utter a single phrase which might somehow be twisted around and bastardized into meaning something anti-semitic, when it could just have been Constitutional and benign.

EDIT: And if you were saying earlier that Christians in America knew the holocaust was happening while it was happening, I'm calling bullshit. We didn't hear about the holocaust until after the war was over stateside and the movies started getting made afterwards. There are no Christians in America who feel any guilt about not doing something about something they knew nothing about at the time that may or may not have happened the way that history and hollywood dictate.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Monday, October 29, 2007 1:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
You're still legitimizing the terrorist's view point by acknowledging what it is he CLAIMS he doesn't like about us. We also must face the fact that Muslims don't see lying to non Muslims as any sort of a sin. So in reality, what ever OBL claims are his 'legitimate' reasons aren't worth the paper they're printed on.

I disagree. Keep in mind this is a -propaganda- war as much as a 'ground' war. Just because one listens, does not mean one believes. Just because one fights the propaganda, does not mean one genuinely accepts what the opponent is stating. Remember, we want to cut off the next generation of terrorists -before- they become radicalized.

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Monday, October 29, 2007 1:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
...there is no possible way that the Holocaust happened as the textbooks ... would have us believe.

Just curious, what would you put as a range of deaths which occurred? 500,000 +/- 100,000? Or are you just going with 'can't believe'?

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Monday, October 29, 2007 5:54 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
6ixStringJack wrote:
Sunday, October 28, 2007 19:16

How come nobody knew about it at the time? Why did we hear about it so much after the fact?

Would it change your opinion any in the least if I told you folks DID know what was going on?

Quote:
Just the power they have today because of the "poor jews" and their ordeal should make anyone suspicious. They have complete diplomatic and political immunity and they run this country now. That is why I don't believe that it happened

Their ordeal ?? Have you not seen the emaciated bodies piled 20-30ft high? The mass graves ? The ovens ? The showers/gas chambers ? Seriously, wtf is it in your brain that blocks you from acknowledging these facts ??? Showus evidence of suffering anywhere through out the war torn world at that time that comes close to matching the numbers and severity which was seen at the German Concentration camps.

And exactly how do they "run this country now "?? That's a load of crap that you simply can't back up. Who was the last Jewish President ? You ignore the facts and instead play the indignation card as if that has ANY bearing on the facts from 60 yrs ago.

This is truly sad.

"Hillary tried to get a million dollars for the Woodstock museum. I understand it was a major cultural and pharmaceutical event. I couldn't attend. I was tied up at the time." - John McCain

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Monday, October 29, 2007 6:00 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:

leadb wrote:
Monday, October 29, 2007 01:46

Remember, we want to cut off the next generation of terrorists -before- they become radicalized.

Then we're about 30-40 yrs too late. What we're seeing now is the result of everyone else falling asleep for the past several decades. If not longer.

"Hillary tried to get a million dollars for the Woodstock museum. I understand it was a major cultural and pharmaceutical event. I couldn't attend. I was tied up at the time." - John McCain

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Monday, October 29, 2007 6:07 AM

Rap,
There's a lot of truth to that statement, the roots of this problem are not just Bush's and -I- for one would never imply that we are not paying now for mistakes with roots going back decades, if not hundreds of years in this region; on the flip side bemoaning the past's failures do not justify continuing down a less optimal path.
I suspect we're probably pretty close to the end of meaningful point and counter point. I just hope you understand that many supporters of RP (and I consider myself only 'tenative' at this point) do not see this as 'giving legitimacy to the terrorists' or saying the 'US deserved 9/11' but instead only as part of steps needed to come to more effective solutions to start on today for a better tomorrow.

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Monday, October 29, 2007 6:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Just the power they have today because of the "poor jews" and their ordeal should make anyone suspicious. They have complete diplomatic and political immunity and they run this country now.

Really? So, could you talk to your Jewish uncle about getting my out of paying taxes? I'd really appreciate it.

Quote:
...if you were saying earlier that Christians in America knew the holocaust was happening while it was happening, I'm calling bullshit.

It's well documented. We turned down repeated requests to accept Jewish refugees, and we did so fairly late in the process. We may not have known the full extent of the genocide, but we knew that some very screwed up stuff was going on.

Quote:
We didn't hear about the holocaust until after the war was over stateside and the movies started getting made afterwards.

Read some history. Read newspapers from the period. It was an active topic of discussion long before we entered the war. A fair number of Americans actively defended Hitler's regime in these discussions.

It's a matter of debate how much we knew, and when, and how many of us knew it. But it's a provable fact that some people, some very vocal people, knew exactly what was going on and spoke up about it.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Monday, October 29, 2007 11:52 AM

America loves a winner!

LEADB - All I should have said and maybe this will make things more clear....the Isalmo-fascist will say ANYTHING to justify what they're doing,in their God's name. This isn't about revenge or the poor of the world crying out for help, this is about religious zealotry and some who feel their god isn't getting enough attention from the rest of the world. They'll say anything to gather as many useful idiots both in and outside of their religion to use as they see fit, regardless of the truth.

"Hillary tried to get a million dollars for the Woodstock museum. I understand it was a major cultural and pharmaceutical event. I couldn't attend. I was tied up at the time." - John McCain

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Monday, October 29, 2007 12:01 PM

Rap, I don't disagree in the least. You are hitting on what is essentially the 'propaganda' part of the war/struggle. Thanks for the discussion, it stretched my brain.

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Monday, October 29, 2007 12:11 PM

CITIZEN

With the noted possibility of what will happen for posting here:
British intelligence had decoded messages in 1941 detailing execution numbers of Jews across occupied territories. The allied powers certainly knew in 1942, though they were sceptical, turns out no one could believe that an industrial genocide on the scale of the holocaust was possible.

Sites such as Bergen-Belsen and Auschwitz tend to tell a different story, where the discarded belongings of the various victims can still be found.

Though what possible reason anyone could have for hoaxing the holocaust escape me, especially during and just after the war. The Nazis had committed enough attrocities, we didn't need to invent any to make us seem righteous.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Monday, October 29, 2007 1:56 PM