'Tase me Bro...I deserve it...' by Hero

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Cool thing is he got a job out of it all - a great job in fact.

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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 10:12 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

no charges with an apology ? Sounds fair to me. The whole goofy afair could have been avoided.

"Hillary tried to get a million dollars for the Woodstock museum. I understand it was a major cultural and pharmaceutical event. I couldn't attend. I was tied up at the time." - John McCain

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:17 AM

"In society, as in life, there are consequences for not following the rules," Meyer wrote. "In this instance, not following the rules has imposed consequences for many people other than myself, people who have seen their school, and perhaps their degree, tarnished in the eyes of others through no fault of their own."

Looks like intensive brainwashing at the secret government prison has finally done it's work. Chalk up another victory for 'The Man'.

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:55 AM

"Well this puts it all to rest."

No, it doesn't. Unless you aren't referring to the issue of cops being taser-happy bullies.

"...an apology from the man responsible for shaming himself and his university."

Well, he shamed his university by exposing their brutal tasering policies and the meek student body who let it happen. I'm sure his apology was forced, in order for him to minimize his punishment and avoid the ridiculous felony charges against him.

"Now, don't ya all feel a bit silly?"

No, what on earth for?

"Gott kann dich nicht vor mir beschuetzen, weil ich nicht boese bin."

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 12:08 PM

Don't listen to Succatash, Hero. That story brought the biggest grin to my face!

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- Vote JonnyQuest/Causal, for Benevolent Co-Dictator of Earth; together, toward a brighter tomorrow!`

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 12:23 PM

SERGEANTX

I didn't really follow this the first time around the block. It's sad that such a ridiculous publicity stunt is being held up as the poster child of tasing. It obscures the sad fact what we've come to accept the notion that it's ok for our police to inject electrodes into someone and shock them into submission. This would be considered torture in a sane society.

From my reading, the guy was clearly being an ass. But that is completely irrelevant to the issue of whether this should be an acceptable police practice.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 12:51 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Causal

"That story brought the biggest grin to my face!"

Whatever happened to seeing the mote in your own eye, turning the other cheek, forgiving 100 times plus one, loving even your enemy ...

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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 1:31 PM

Don't listen to Causal, Rue. He's been grinning like that ever since we invaded Iraq.

"Gott kann dich nicht vor mir beschuetzen, weil ich nicht boese bin."

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 1:35 PM

FREMDFIRMA

At least he's alive.

That guy the RCMP zapped up in vancouver...
He didn't make it.

That's two stiffs for them in less than a week, although alcohol was likely a contributing factor in the first, this most recent had neither alcohol or drugs in his system, and from the incident report was prettymuch killed immediately of apparent heart failure from being tased.

We use an electrical device (pacemaker) to regulate heart function, how hard is it to grasp the fact that a substantive electrical charge to the chest cavity can unregulate that function.

And then they blame some mythical cause that has never once killed anyone outside of police custody.

Anyhows...

This guys apology for being an asshole, something I think was universally accepted even here, by no means absolves the jackbooted thugs who hosed a really simple situation with thier incompetence and ego-authority complex issues, then compounded it by engaging in misrepresentation if not outright deceit in the after action report.

Sure he's an asshole, we knew that, I just don't see where him acknowledging something we all knew from the start relieves the officers in question of responsibility for their own humiliating fuckups.

What does one have to do with the other ?

-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 2:00 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

I've thought some about Shepard Book. He had done I guess some pretty bad things - and then tried to repudiate them and redeem himself. As unused to it as he was, he really did try to live by the (holy) book.

Quote:
Originally posted by Succatash:
Don't listen to Causal, Rue. He's been grinning like that ever since we invaded Iraq.

"Gott kann dich nicht vor mir beschuetzen, weil ich nicht boese bin."

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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 2:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Causal
Whatever happened to seeing the mote in your own eye, turning the other cheek, forgiving 100 times plus one, loving even your enemy ...

Rue
Whatever happened to 'Judge not, that ye be not judged'.

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 2:08 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

I don't pretend to be religious.

But yeah, I forgot that one. Thanks, I'll add that to my list next time.

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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 2:17 PM

Ooh! I love Bible verses! Here's one of my favorite passages:

From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some youths came out of the town and jeered at him. "Go on up, you baldhead!" they said. "Go on up, you baldhead!" He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the LORD. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths.

-- 2 Kings 2:23-24

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 2:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
I don't pretend to be religious.

...unless it serves your agenda.

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 2:52 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

*THHHHWACK!*

Thank you sir! I'll have another!

*THHHHWACK!*
.
.
.
.
.

:hangs head in sadness:

nobody- Rue has never pretended to be religious and is merely pointing out those that pretend to be relgious often seem to miss the whole point of the message of Jesus.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 3:21 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

HHhhmmm - I thought that was obvious. Maybe I need to make it even simpler for him.

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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 4:11 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Maybe I need to make it even simpler for him.

I. don't. think. that's. possible.

Oh, wait a minute. That's four words too many... Okay then...

Impossible.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 4:23 PM

I'd just like to point out that my position on the whole tasing thing doesn't entail any particular view of the Iraq war; it's just silly to think that it would. In point of fact, I think that the Iraq war was a spectacularly bad decision.

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 4:25 PM

Also, before anyone decides that I'm a hypocrite, it might be good to figure out just what it is about the tasing story that I liked. That would be helpful. The mere fact that one can quote religious sound-bites doesn't mean any of them are applicable to the case at hand.

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 4:34 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

So I'll ask - why WOULD you enjoy the story ?

Not my version of faith - it's the faith in the NT. The one that requires love of god and neighbor - yes, even your enemy - above all. And if that's not what you get out of the NT - what is YOUR version of faith ?

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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 4:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
I'd just like to point out that my position on the whole tasing thing doesn't entail any particular view of the Iraq war; it's just silly to think that it would. In point of fact, I think that the Iraq war was a spectacularly bad decision.

Sorry, Causal. I was just trying to give you a hard time. Please accept my apologies.

"Gott kann dich nicht vor mir beschuetzen, weil ich nicht boese bin."

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 4:38 PM

Well, I submit to you that your understanding of the NT Christian faith may be flawed. Now, mine might also be, I'll grant you. But please don't make pronouncements about The Way Things Are, because you might be wrong (and the same is true of me, too, which is why you don't see me saying, "NT says thus-and-so").

What I like about the story is from what I could observe, the young man was in the wrong. He did the wrong thing. That's what it looked like to me when I watched the videos. I smile at the story because he admits as much, in spite of all the hyperventilating on his behalf. He admits that he was wrong. Mine is the simple satisfaction of someone who sees a certain thing in a situation and is confirmed in that perception.

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 4:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Succatash:
Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
I'd just like to point out that my position on the whole tasing thing doesn't entail any particular view of the Iraq war; it's just silly to think that it would. In point of fact, I think that the Iraq war was a spectacularly bad decision.

Sorry, Causal. I was just trying to give you a hard time. Please accept my apologies.

"Gott kann dich nicht vor mir beschuetzen, weil ich nicht boese bin."

Accepted, of course, gladly! My sarcasm detector has been out of calibration lately, could be the source of my soreness. I'm just glad I edited my knee-jerk post--it was full of vitriolic goodness!

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 4:41 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Then I think your understanding of the situation is limited.

So, I'm still curious. What IS your version of NT faith ?

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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 4:48 PM

How much time've you got?

Seriously, though, here's my only deal: I've put in a ton of study on matters of faith, given that I have a native interest in it, and given my vocational direction. And I still think that my understanding is limited and flawed. So I resist the temptation to simplify things by merely saying, "The NT teaches _________." There are some things that I could say with confidence, "I know what this means." Others, "I'm pretty sure." Still others, "I've got an idea." But there remains much that I don't yet understand. So I'm hesitant to get into doctrinal discussions, because I hold such things loosely.

A single example: the turn-the-other-cheek thing. Now, some have taken this to mean that Christianity is a faith of global pacificism. I think that compelling arguments can be made. But there's a stream of thinking developing (particularly by N.T. Wright) that wants to understand these sorts of statements against the cultural backdrop of first-century Judaism, in which violent resistance to Rome was seen as a viable path for the Jews. According to that line of thinking, Jesus is making a critique of the current structures of his day, and trying to point people in a different direction. Which do I find the more compelling? At the moment, the latter. But I've only just begun my investigation of the point. And until I do, I want to resist the urge to say, "It means this" because the last thing I want to do is commit myself to a view that's wrong.

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 5:00 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

That interpretation is one I also credit. I think it applies as well to loving even your enemy. Since the land was occupied by the Romans with the help of the Jewish religious collaborationists, there was probably plenty of subterranean hate going around. There was the enemy - in their streets, taking their money, running their lives. And Jesus said - LOVE your enemy. He also said - give unto Caesar - what would have been anathema to Jews chafing under the Romans.

So Jesus understood hatred. And it may even have been well-earned hatred. But he said - give it up. Give to Caesar. Love your enemies. Turn the other cheek. And (this probably spoke more to the Jews of the day than it does to us) he was even crucified at the hands of the enemy he called on people to love. But he forgave them on the cross.

I don't think you have to finesse too much to get that message.

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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 5:04 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
What I like about the story is from what I could observe, the young man was in the wrong. He did the wrong thing. That's what it looked like to me when I watched the videos. I smile at the story because he admits as much, in spite of all the hyperventilating on his behalf. He admits that he was wrong. Mine is the simple satisfaction of someone who sees a certain thing in a situation and is confirmed in that perception.

If this young man was wrong: impolite, strident, angry... that doesn't mean the cops were right. If the cops ALSO apologized, I'd be a whole lot happier about the situation. As is is, they walk away feeling justified and their threshold to do the same thing again (taser a person who offers no physical threat to them or anyone) has been lowered.

People like Auraptor and Hero, unlike you perhaps, remind me very much of the kids in Lord of the Flies. Or more to the point, they remind me of the authority-pliant participants in the famous Milgram experiment:

Quote:
After a number of voltage level increases, the learner-actor started to bang on the wall that separated him from the subject. After several times banging on the wall and complaining about his heart condition, all responses by the learner would cease....
At this point, many people indicated their desire to stop the experiment and check on the learner. Some test subjects paused at 135 volts and began to question the purpose of the experiment. Most continued after being assured that they would not be held responsible. A few subjects began to laugh nervously or exhibit other signs of extreme stress once they heard the screams of pain coming from the learner. In Milgram's first set of experiments, 65 percent (26 of 40) of experiment participants administered the experiment's final 450-volt shock, though many were very uncomfortable doing so; at some point, every participant paused and questioned the experiment... (but) No participant steadfastly refused to administer shocks before the 300-volt level.

SO these folks dance around with glee when someone screams in pain because he offends their sense of... whatever.

THIS is the kind of fascist behavior that they supposedly fight against. But when THEY do it that's different.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 5:09 PM

I'm glad to see Meyers own up to his part of the problem; but I'm still not clear the police handled the situation as well as they could have.

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 5:12 PM

I've heard an interesting theory about "turning the other cheek."

When a Roman would slap a Jew, he would do it back handed, because that is a sign of disrespect and inequality. To not hit backhanded was actually a sign of respect and equality.

Also, only one hand was for slapping, and the other hand was supposed to be kept clean.

So when the Jew turns the other cheek, the Roman can't backhand him, and is forced to treat him as an equal, if he wants to hit him again.

Or something like that.

"Gott kann dich nicht vor mir beschuetzen, weil ich nicht boese bin."

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 7:01 PM

FREMDFIRMA

I've heard that too, Tash.. no idea where it came from or if it's just myth.

As far as religion goes, I have an extremely simplistic but effective method of it's measure.

I do not care one whit what someone believes, I care what they DO.

Simple as that.

-F

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 8:58 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Heh....

As if this wasn't completely forced. I just said I don't believe in the Holocaust in the other thread. As if I'd buy this... right.

For the record, I also don't buy that we ever went to the moon either.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 1:28 AM

I didn't go to the moon either, but if I remember correctly, Neil Armstrong did.

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 2:18 AM

ARCLIGHT

"...From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some youths came out of the town and jeered at him. "Go on up, you baldhead!" they said. "Go on up, you baldhead!" He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the LORD. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths.

-- 2 Kings 2:23-24"

It's an early example of KARMA.

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 2:26 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Hey!

Did Alice Kramden ever get to the moon?

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 2:27 AM

Interesting how the thread's become a referendum on religion.

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 2:34 AM

It has strayed a bit, hasn't it.

Hi Causal, nice to see you in the neighborhood again!

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 2:36 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by leadb:
It has strayed a bit, hasn't it.

Hi Causal, nice to see you in the neighborhood again!

Likewise. What are your thoughts on the whole tasering thing?

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 3:30 AM

For full details, I'd have to say see the original thread. Wrote volumes.

In short, I thought the police overreacted; they should instead have situated themselves between Meyers and the stage; then clearly ordered Meyers to leave (though I'm not clear they had the authority to do that; perhaps that has since been settled). I think by grabbing him and such they tended to escalate the situation. Now, had they handled it better, would it have come to a tasering? Not sure.

One thing I was trying to 'advocate' was that use of taser should be reviewed after the fact, and such review should include 'community participants' (ie: someone besides police); and I gather in this case it was to be review, though I'm not clear on who was to participate. I have to admit, it's dropped off my radar screen a bit.

(Edit: I assume you were asking mostly about Meyers. If you meant in general, I'm concerned there's excessive reliance on tasers; and thus the community review, increased training, etc. comments in my original posting would be most applicable)

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 3:34 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Whatever happened to seeing the mote in your own eye, turning the other cheek, forgiving 100 times plus one, loving even your enemy ...

If we can't laugh at some jackass getting tased...then where are we as a people?

H

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 3:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
nobody- Rue has never pretended to be religious and is merely pointing out those that pretend to be relgious often seem to miss the whole point of the message of Jesus.

Rue got all of that from Causal's one sentence, I'm impressed.
And what about doing unto others? What do you think was meant by that?

It seems rather convenient that you will support Rue's interpretations but not Causal's, why do you suppose that is? I have never seen you disagree with Rue even though she often strays from the teachings of Jesus in her posts IMHO. Has Rue ever turned the other cheek?

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:
Maybe I need to make it even simpler for him.
I. don't. think. that's. possible.

Oh, wait a minute. That's four words too many... Okay then...

Impossible.

That may be, but don't give up on me yet.

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 4:36 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

BiggusD

"she often strays from the teachings of Jesus in her posts IMHO"

Which I plainly and repeatedly have said I don't follow.

So, let's make this about you. What are your leanings ? Do YOU claim to follow the teachings of Christ ? If so, why do post only to attack people you are enjoined to love ?

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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 4:37 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

'Hero'

"If we can't laugh at some jackass getting tased...then where are we as a people?"

People who aren't sociopaths, like you obviously are.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 5:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
BiggusD
"she often strays from the teachings of Jesus in her posts IMHO"
Which I plainly and repeatedly have said I don't follow.

So you only pretend to be religious when it suits your agenda of attacking other peoples beliefs? Kinda right back where we started huh?

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
So, let's make this about you. What are your leanings ?

agnostic.

Quote:
Do YOU claim to follow the teachings of Christ ?

No.

Quote:
If so, why do post only to attack people you are enjoined to love ?

I engage you because, quite frankly, you often rub me the wrong way so to speak.

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 5:24 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
BiggusD

"she often strays from the teachings of Jesus in her posts IMHO"

Which I plainly and repeatedly have said I don't follow.

No snark here at all, please don't read me this way. But the fact that you don't follow "the teachings of Jesus" is the main reason why I'm not overly concerned with your diagnosis of hypocrisy. I mean, goodness, I'm not going to accuse Chrisisall of being a bad Buddhist--I'm not one myself, so I'm not really sure I have any business saying he's a bad one. You don't buy into Christianity, so why should I take seriously your interpretations of the same? I don't mean that to be offensive. If you want to criticize me for something, criticize me for being an asshole or some such--but don't criticize me for being unfaithful to a faith you don't even believe to be true in the first place!

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 5:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
'Hero'

"If we can't laugh at some jackass getting tased...then where are we as a people?"

People who aren't sociopaths, like you obviously are.

Mmm...ad hominem...

________________________________________________________________________

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 5:29 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
People who aren't sociopaths, like you obviously are.

People are people. Who doesn't laugh when some jackass has something humiliating and painful (but with no real injury or long term damage) happen to them.

Its like watching Funniest Videos of folk getting a ball hit into their crotch or falling down. Its funny.

I've never seen a taser video that wasn't downright funny or at least midly amusing.

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 5:30 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"You don't buy into Christianity, so why should I take seriously your interpretations of the same?"

I actually took it very seriously for a while. I was very concerned with its real message. And that doesn't mean I've stopped studying it (and other religions).

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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 5:33 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"I've never seen a taser video that wasn't downright funny or at least midly amusing."

That says quite a bit about you. I'm not sure you should be admitting this in public as a public offcial, even anonymously. OOPS. Too late.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 5:40 AM