Ron Paul Calls Rudy a 'Chicken Hawk' by SergeantX

America loves a winner!

The little guy is trying feverishly to get ANYONE to pay attention to him. He's resorting to name calling, and breaking Reagan's 11th Commandment.

Yeah, that'll work.

"Hillary tried to get a million dollars for the Woodstock museum. I understand it was a major cultural and pharmaceutical event. I couldn't attend. I was tied up at the time." - John McCain

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 10:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
Ron Paul: A Republican Takes the Lead Against the War

And by take the lead they mean coming in dead last and well behind "Not Voting This Year". To be fair Mr. NVTY has run an excellent campaign on very little money.

I gave Ron Paul a fair shake, he reflects a marginal view in the Republican Party and, at best, 1-2% nationwide. That said he's run an excellent independent campaign. To bad he lacks the courage to admit he's using the (R) in his name as cover for his independent bid.

H

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 10:40 AM

I'd vote for him, despite his views on abortion- I like blunt.

Paulisall

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 10:47 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
The little guy is trying feverishly to get ANYONE to pay attention to him. He's resorting to name calling, and breaking Reagan's 11th Commandment.

Yeah, that'll work.

yep, he's raised all that money because people don't pay attention to him.

And I think breaking the commandment of a brain addled ex-actor is a good start.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 10:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I'd vote for him, despite his views on abortion- I like blunt.

Your wasting your vote. But you like blunt, so its ok for me to say that.

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 11:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
yep, he's raised all that money because people don't pay attention to him.

My bet is that this money is coming from Libertarian Party coffers (or doners) and a fair number of the liberal anti-war types MoveOn.org types (cause he's good for their message).

The amounts are right for this theory to hold true.

Call me when he raises national party numbers (or polls in whole numbers and then I'll take notice. Till then I'll just sip my Diet Dr. Pepper from my 'Rudy' mug...available now on his website: http://www.rudy2008store.com/300-1200.htm

H

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 11:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:

Your wasting your vote.
H

Is that a fact, councilor?

I see no links Chrisisall

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 11:20 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Is that a fact, councilor?

Ok. If you can look deep within yourself, be honost and say that you truly believe in Ron Paul, believe in his goal, believe in his plan and then after making a educated review of all the relevant facts and circumstances before casting a knowing, intellegent, and voluntary vote for Ron Paul then...yes, your vote is being wasted.

I'm being blunt...cause you like that.

Edited to add: I'm sorry your vote will be a waste...well not sorry since RP is just an also-ran who will not warrant a footnote in history...just kinda sorry for having to be the one to break the bad news to you, news which is paifully obvious to everyone in the entire world (plus or minus less then 1%), including Ron Paul.

H

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 11:26 AM

JONGSSTRAW

If Mr. Paul ever wants to be taken seriously he needs to clarify his position on Iran.

If Iran isn't arming the insurgency in Iraq, and funding and arming terrorism all over the world , then who does he believe is?

I can understand his boldness in accsuing the "Administration" as perhaps not being entirely trustworthy, but these revelations and allegations about Iran are coming from our military troops on the ground, and the Iraqi military as well.

If Paul believes the UN and their agencies can deal effectively with Iran, then he truly is treading koolaid.

He needs to either see the military evidence against Iran for himself, or perhaps take a trip over to Iraq. Lining up with the MoveOn folks and other left-wing radicals is not going to get him very much popular support in America.

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 11:29 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
yep, he's raised all that money because people don't pay attention to him.

My bet is that this money is coming from Libertarian Party coffers (or doners) and a fair number of the liberal anti-war types MoveOn.org types (cause he's good for their message).

The amounts are right for this theory to hold true.

Call me when he raises national party numbers (or polls in whole numbers and then I'll take notice. Till then I'll just sip my Diet Dr. Pepper from my 'Rudy' mug...available now on his website: http://www.rudy2008store.com/300-1200.htm

H

Sounds like you just want to blame the relative success of the guy you don't like on those nasty liberals.

But I'll go with it. Let's assume it's true.

In which case, given the level of fundraising success that the Dems are having, it seems like there's just a whole hell of a lot of folks willing to shell out money to end the war.

As for his poll numbers - it doesn't seem very fair to judge him on those, since he keeps getting left off of Repub polls, regardless of his level of support.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 11:33 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

If Iran isn't arming the insurgency in Iraq, and funding and arming terrorism all over the world , then who does he believe is?

Well, the Saudis have had a hand.

And there's all those guns and money of ours that have just up and vanished.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 11:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:

Ok. If you can look deep within yourself, be honost and say that you truly believe in Ron Paul, believe in his goal, believe in his plan and then after making a educated review of all the relevant facts and circumstances before casting a knowing, intellegent, and voluntary vote for Ron Paul then...yes, your vote is being wasted.

Wow...I can't feel like that about ANY Presidential candidate- Nader's not running

.

Chrisiswastingavoteobviouslyisall

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 12:05 PM

The most telling aspect of the various attacks on Ron Paul is the way the left and the right are teaming up on him. They've finally found something that draws true bi-partisan support. It makes sense when you think about it. He threatens to bust up their gang rape of the constitution. Spoiler indeed!

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 12:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
He threatens to bust up their gang rape of the constitution.

Yes, he does pose a danger in that respect, it seems.

Now I REALLY want him to get in there

Chrisisall

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 12:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
That said he's run an excellent independent campaign...

Actually his campaign skill leaves a lot to be desired. Have you seen his ads? It's the appeal of the message and the relative intelligence and passion of his online support that are pushing things forward. If it's not RP, it'll be someone else next time around. A LOT of people have figured out they don't have to play the dumbed-down, mainstream political charade any longer. We will win, it's only a matter of time.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 12:40 PM

America loves a winner!

That Ron Paul has collected some money onl shows America is tired of business as usual politcs in D.C. I am tired of it as well, but not so tired that I'll waste my vote or my money.

"Hillary tried to get a million dollars for the Woodstock museum. I understand it was a major cultural and pharmaceutical event. I couldn't attend. I was tied up at the time." - John McCain

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 12:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
...I am tired of it as well, but not so tired that I'll waste my vote or my money.

You don't seem to mind wasting your vote on more of the same.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 1:01 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
...I am tired of it as well, but not so tired that I'll waste my vote or my money.

You don't seem to mind wasting your vote on more of the same.

SergeantX

I'll take the lesser of 2 evils. A vote for Harry Browne got me nothing. There are several GOP candidates which actually make more sense than anything Bush 43 has said, though none so much as to be an ideal candidate.

"Hillary tried to get a million dollars for the Woodstock museum. I understand it was a major cultural and pharmaceutical event. I couldn't attend. I was tied up at the time." - John McCain

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 1:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I'll take the lesser of 2 evils.

The lesser of two evils is still evil. I'll be damned if I waste my vote on a candidate that I think is less than the best.

But think about it. Where has this kind of logic taken us? Voting is an opportunity to show support for the candidate you think is the best. If you fail to do that, if instead you cop out and vote for the candidate you think is most likely to win, you've betrayed your duty as a citizen.

It's this horserace mentality to elections that's killing us. You're not 'picking a winner'. You don't get a prize if your candidate wins. You're expressing your judgment on who you think would be the best leader for the country. If the misguided masses prefer someone you think is less than the best, it doesn't help anything to join them. It only makes matters worse.

If you don't think Paul is the best candidate, which I suspect you don't, then you shouldn't vote for him. But if you refrain from voting your conscience just because you're afraid to lose, you're undercutting democracy and 'spoiling' the process.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 1:31 PM

America loves a winner!

I'm voting for the candidate who I think will get most of what I value as important acted upon. This isn't a 'winner take all' issue. Never has been, never will be. There is no ONE true great candidate that can stand for everything I hold dear. But those who have a chance to win will get my vote.

THAT is my duty as a citizen.

"Hillary tried to get a million dollars for the Woodstock museum. I understand it was a major cultural and pharmaceutical event. I couldn't attend. I was tied up at the time." - John McCain

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 1:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
But those who have a chance to win will get my vote.

But surely you can see how this attitude screws up the results. Rather than voting based on your conscience, your vote becomes just a guess as to how everyone else will vote. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. It isn't helped by our two-party system and winner-take-all elections, but the turning point, the real trigger for change, is going to have to come from voters. Breaking through the lesser-of-two-evils mentality is the first step.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 2:01 PM

FREMDFIRMA

I smell fear.

OH heavens be martha, whatever will we do, some asshole has come out of nowhere and he's throwing a wrench in our depressing system of lesser of two evils sellouts... *whinge*...

You want blunt, I'll give ya fuckin blunt - the popular vote is tallied only as a matter of record anyhows as has no ACTUAL impact on the election in the first fucking place, one reason it's always been rife with rampant corruption is cause in the end it really doesn't matter.

Voting for any of these clowns, Ron included is just rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic as she goes down anyhow - but imma damned well vote for him anyway, just so I can shrug and say "hey, not my fault" to the folks on the sharp end when things go to hell in a handbasket, as I turn my back on em and leave em to sink.

Might be nasty, but since we're bein blunt, let's BE blunt, ehe ?

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Thursday, November 15, 2007 4:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
Actually his campaign skill leaves a lot to be desired.

I think you can say that's due to a lack of staff or an experianced national campaign director.

My point is that as an independent candidate he's making great use of another party's name and apparatus to expose his message to a far larger audience then the Libertarians normally attract. In that sense its an excellent and effective campaign strategy...one that will make little or no difference next year once the first few primaries are done. RP is at or near his high water mark. People have already dismissed him.

H

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Thursday, November 15, 2007 5:13 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
... RP is at or near his high water mark. People have already dismissed him.

Just a few short months ago I'd wouldn't have doubted this pronouncement. But what I've seen happening in those months is truly inspiring. I'm still not willing to make any heavy bets on Ron Paul winning the Republican nomination. But I think more and more people are realizing just how far astray the neo-cons have taken us. There seems to be a real desire to shake things up and Ron Paul draws together a motivated contingent of folks ready for a serious 'remodeling' of the party.

John Kerry was polling about where RP is at this point in his campaign in 04. The difference, of course, is that John Kerry was 'safe' to the powers-that-be. Ron Paul threatens to make real changes and that scares the bejeezus out of the spineless bureaucrats running the party. But voters are responding to exactly that threat, seeing RP as a real alternative.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Thursday, November 15, 2007 8:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
John Kerry was polling about where RP is at this point in his campaign in 04.

I note for the record that by this point in 2004 the election was a couple weeks gone by.

If you mean 2003: "A December 3, 2003 American Research Group poll of likely Democratic primary voters in New Hampshire showed Kerry trailing Dean 45% to 13%." Kerry was in 2nd place followed closely by Clark, Lieberman, and Edwards.

Now , November of 2007: Ron Paul at 6.5% behind...Romney, Giuliani, McCain, and Huckabee. Leading slightly over Thompson. And NH is RP's best state seeing how they went McCain in 2000.

Now thats up from his all time low of "-" but down from his all time high at 10%.

November of 2003 is also the month John Kerry began incorporating party insiders into his campaign giving him access to more talented staffers, better fundraising, and more local party resources. Given RP's complete lack in this area...money aside...a comparison of Kerry to Paul is simply unfounded.

H

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Thursday, November 15, 2007 8:49 AM

Heh... I wouldn't even want to compare them. Just making the point that things can change. They are changing in fact.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Thursday, November 15, 2007 9:04 AM

I wanna know why Hero and AURaptor ain't hating on Paul- I SAID I'd vote for him- doesn't that automatically make him an undercover coolaid-drinkin' lefty/commie, bent on giving free money to drug users and subverting our national defense??

Not understanding Chrisisall

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Thursday, November 15, 2007 9:13 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I wanna know why Hero and AURaptor ain't hating on Paul

I gave Ron Paul a fair shake. I find him to be thoughtful and intellegent but misguided. I disagree with him, but its an honost disagreement. Thus I respect his right to campaign for his cause...despite his futility. Minority opinions are vital to Democracy.

As for Democrats, I love good honost liberal democrats. The kind of folk who say what they mean and mean what they say and who you can sit down and have a good discussion with. Problem is you Democrats are throwing those folks over the side in favor of popular flavors-of-the-month types and folk who'll stand for anything that gets them elected. When a candidate needs a focus group to pick a hairstyle or to decide whether to hyphen their name...you might want to look elsewhere for substantive leadership. Thats why I like Obama...he's got good potential...his real problem is a complete lack of experiance along with some genuinely bad ideas (but he's black and talks good, so I guess thats enough for about 25% of the Democratic party).

H

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Thursday, November 15, 2007 9:28 AM

SPACEMANSPIFF76

i do not agree with george bush's pretenses for going to war in iraq, but we do have a vital interest in protecting ourselves and our nation. at the very least, the war needs to be re-organised and the mission re-structured. this is not an A verus B war. no one involved can say 'we win. you lose.' everyone invovled is entagled like a kite string. but we can back off a little and focus on capturing terrorists rather than wasting ammo. the american position right now is like the brits in ireland. we're just playing crowd control and our soldiers are just defending themselves from the crossfire. that in particular needs to be stopped.

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Thursday, November 15, 2007 10:45 AM

KANEMAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
Actually his campaign skill leaves a lot to be desired.

I think you can say that's due to a lack of staff or an experianced national campaign director.

My point is that as an independent candidate he's making great use of another party's name and apparatus to expose his message to a far larger audience then the Libertarians normally attract. In that sense its an excellent and effective campaign strategy...one that will make little or no difference next year once the first few primaries are done. RP is at or near his high water mark. People have already dismissed him.

H

And that little "ten term republican congressman from Texas" tag means what again? that he's independent?

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Thursday, November 15, 2007 10:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:
And that little "ten term republican congressman from Texas" tag means what again? that he's independent?

He a Libertarian. He just hides behind the (R) because Libertarians don't win elections. The FIRST time he lost was in 1988...as a Libertarian (although still registered Republican, cause...he lacks the courage to use the (L)). He won a clear mandate with his 0.47% or less then half-million votes.

H

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Thursday, November 15, 2007 10:55 AM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Besides, who are the people telling us there'll be problems if we leave? The same ones who said it would be a cakewalk. What kind of credibility do they have?

Oh God, I love this guy.

Can't Take My Gorram Paul

Aude sapere (Dare to know). -- Samuel Hahnemann, M.D.

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Thursday, November 15, 2007 11:35 AM