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Originally posted by rue:
"I got news for ya. No one " knows ".

Well, it's obvious Bush knows very little. But are you saying Bush didn't KNOW what the NIE said ?

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The NIE just released its report today.

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Originally posted by badkarma00:
I know I will hate myself later for posting here, but I can't help myself

I just wanted to point out that in the Acronym NIE, the E stands for. . .. . ESTIMATE.

Which is a very fancy, dressed up word that bascially means GUESS.

No one but the Iranians, and not all of them, know the true status of their WMD programs.

No one.

Bad_karma

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
ALERT! : Message to all you sad, sad, oh so sad Bush haters : Bush Derangement Syndrome can be FATAL after 7 years!....y'all hear dat?????...SEVEN FUCKING YEARS & you're all still as frenzied & whacked as you were on the day the United States Supreme Court OVERTURNED the RADICAl and legally wrong DEMOCRAT dominated Florida Supreme Court ACTIVISTS' attempt to steal the election and give it to fatass jerk Gore.....and you pathetic folks are STILL nitpickin' poor Bushie to death...as if your whole meaningless life depended on it. EVERYTHING in world diplomacy and dealing with maniac murdering lunatics like Achminassholejhad and worldwide jihadi terrorism is not openly transparent for you little idiot retards to agree to. Ever hear of a simple game called poker? Probably not! Sometimes you can't show your hand, even to your fellow peeps on the Hill...You pepper-pickin' from flea shit doltish drones just can't accept the fact that you are not personally called in on every gorram horny thing Bush & America do....secret shit is secret shit, and that's kept the world from destroying itself for quite a while now. What the hell y'all gonna do when George W. leaves office?...HUH????? What the hell is gonna give you a reason to live anymore, once the object of your obsessed hate is gone?

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What the hell is gonna give you a reason to live anymore, once the object of your obsessed hate is gone?

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
You want to compare America to Iran and that's fine. It's actually terrific!

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
You and your ilk are too far gone.

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Originally posted by rue:
"nitpickin' poor Bushie to death"

Bad economy and Federal surplus turned into debt, US aggression against Iraq for no valid reason, global warming ignored and the US still locked to Saudi Arabian oil, the FDA and other Federal agencies turned into business puppets, loss of personal freedom and erosion of constitutional protections ...

I don't know Jong, have I missed any small nitpicky details ?


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Just, you know, for the record.

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Originally posted by SignyM:

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What the hell is gonna give you a reason to live anymore, once the object of your obsessed hate is gone?

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Why, YOU sweetie! :bats eyes: Your obsessive hate is so .... frothy! And entertaining.

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Always look upstream.

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Originally posted by SignyM:
So my question to you is the same as to Hero: Which version do you believe? Was he lying then? Or is he lying now?

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The production of weapons grade material continues even as we write.

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Either way it supports Bush's fundamental premise which is to confront nations like Iran and prevent the proliferation of nuclear weapons to rogue states and organizations.

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Perhaps Bush knew and continued with the rhetoric to increase U.N. pressure against Iran.

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I understand why you are so much in favor of Iran. Most liberals see Bush as the enemy and the terrorists (and rogue states like Iran and Hugo Chavez's half of his country) as allies in the War on Bush that started in early November, 2000.

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Originally posted by SignyM:
And I see Bush was very successful in preventing Pakistan from spreading nuclear technology throughout the Middle East., right? Good thing we didn't ally ourselves with them or provide them aid!

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In the late 1970s, the United States needed Pakistan to help funnel covert aid to Islamic militants fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan. Starting with the Carter administration, and continuing since, the authors say the United States has sacrificed principle (i.e., nuclear nonproliferation) for pragmatism (i.e., fighting the Soviets and, later, the Islamic militants we'd helped to fight the Soviets). The authors describe the government's "don't ask, don't tell" approach to Pakistan's nuclear program as "a complex conspiracy, with State Department officials actively obstructing other arms of government which could not help but fall over intelligence about Pakistan's nuclear trade. Evidence was destroyed, criminal files were diverted, Congress was repeatedly lied to and . . . presidential appointees even tipped off the Pakistan government" about ongoing investigations.

The level of American willful blindness toward Pakistan, as described by the authors in detail, is the book's most provocative argument. The role of Pakistan's military in propping up the Taliban is well-known, but less known were the discussions between Pakistani nuclear scientists and Osama bin Laden. When CIA Director George Tenet met with Pakistan's president, General Pervez Musharraf in 2003 and presented overwhelming evidence of Pakistan's nuclear proliferation, the authors say, Musharraf called upon all his thespian skills to appear duly shocked.

Musharraf developed an amazing ruse for the United States and the world, the authors write: "Musharraf began to refashion Pakistan's proliferation from a military prerogative to the act of a small group of renegade scientists." These few money-grubbing scientists, Musharraf contended, had sold billions of dollars worth of nuclear knowhow and equipment to the outside world without Pakistan's military-led government knowing anything about it.

In 2004, the father of Pakistan's nuclear program, scientist A.Q. Khan, appeared on Pakistan television and apologized (in English) for his "unauthorized proliferation activities." The following day, Musharraf pardoned Khan, who was immediately made unavailable for questioning by Western authorities investigating Pakistan's nuclear proliferation.

As for Khan's activities being unauthorized, the authors present overwhelming evidence to the contrary. In 2000, for example, the Pakistani military held an international munitions fair. "The central exhibit," write the authors, "was a large Khan Research Laboratories booth promoting the sale of centrifuges with an after-sale consultancy service." With enough money, anyone could buy, off-the-shelf, parts to a nuclear program.

The Bush administration trumpeted Khan's 2004 "confession" as a triumph of US commitment to nonproliferation. Pakistan remained a friend and continued receiving billions of dollars in US aid. Yet nothing has changed after Khan's public scapegoating, say the authors, who "follow the money" to show that Pakistan continues to allow nuclear proliferation. Most galling of all, the authors present evidence of US aid being misdirected toward the Islamic nation's nuclear program, saying that "US taxpayers unwittingly fund[ed] Pakistan's nuclear weapons programme."

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Originally posted by SignyM:
Auraptor- What I meant was... So Bush was lying since August, when he got the NIE?

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The NIE just released its report today.

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Are you saying Bush only has access to the NIE at the same time we do ... and then only to declassified material? That's ridiculous!

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" Consider that on July 11, 2007, roughly four or so months prior to the most recent NIE's publication, Deputy Director of Analysis Thomas Fingar," one of the three authors of the NIE, "gave the following testimony before the House Armed Services Committee: 'Iran and North Korea are the states of most concern to us. The United States' concerns about Iran are shared by many nations, including many of Iran's neighbors. Iran is continuing to pursue uranium enrichment and has shown more interest in protracting negotiations and working to delay and diminish the impact of UNSC sanctions than in reaching an acceptable diplomatic solution. We assess that Tehran is determined to develop nuclear weapons -- despite its international obligations and international pressure. This is a grave concern to the other countries

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