I don't support the writers by Hixie129

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

I don't support the writers

POSTED BY: HIXIE129
UPDATED: Monday, December 17, 2007 10:15
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VIEWED: 1139
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Friday, December 14, 2007 4:37 AM

If you work for a big pharma company and spend a couple of years developing a drug and the drug goes on to make money, do the employees say we want a percent of the profits? No, they got their weekly checks, the company assumes all the risks and company has intellectual property rights.. Same with the tech industry and many more business sectors… So why should the writers get a percentage of the profits.

Were the writers out on the picket line when GM or Ford went on strike? No,the writers are in it for themselves. So why should I support the writers? AND if the writers do win, then this reduces the networks profits and all that we will get is MORE REALITY TV. Do you want that???

I say screw the writers, I’ll take reruns of B5, Farscape, Firefly, etc,.. Also I don’t want to hear about how some make 50K or less or that others are unemployed…. I personally don’t want anyone unemployed but they have a choice, many people don’t have a choice and their job is eliminated…

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Friday, December 14, 2007 5:03 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Wow, it's right out of Reservoir Dogs.

You don't tip, do you?

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Friday, December 14, 2007 5:14 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

I don’t see any problems for the writers being in it for themselves. I’m in my job for myself and my family. When GM and Ford went on strike, I didn’t go on strike. Not that I could have, since my job doesn’t afford me that luxury, but I still wouldn’t have.

I don’t think we should screw the writers - I think they deserve to get paid what their product is worth, which as it turns out is mostly crap, but there are a few writers that clearly should be paid well.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Friday, December 14, 2007 6:31 AM

HIXIE129

I agree Fin, Screw was the wrong word, I just won't support their strike nor do I care if the strike get settled.

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Friday, December 14, 2007 6:42 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

A job is worth what one is willing to pay. This strike will settle, difinitively, what writing is worth to the industry. It's no different than a strike in any other industry. I hold no more ire against these people than I would against a welder or factory worker.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Friday, December 14, 2007 7:06 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

Your first paragraph argument breaks down when you realize that those working for a pharmaceutical company use company facilities and property to develop new drugs. The writers' work comes from their own minds, so it is not only legally but also physically their intellectual property.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Friday, December 14, 2007 7:54 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
Your first paragraph argument breaks down when you realize that those working for a pharmaceutical company use company facilities and property to develop new drugs. The writers' work comes from their own minds, so it is not only legally but also physically their intellectual property.

And, unlike the pharma example, many writers are not paid while developing a new script. And with pharmacudicals, even if a new drug never goes to market, the reserchers still get paid for the work done. This is not the case with writers, if the script doesn't sell, they've just wasted a whole lotta time for nothing.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Friday, December 14, 2007 7:59 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Quote:
Originally posted by Hixie129:
If you work for a big pharma company and spend a couple of years developing a drug and the drug goes on to make money, do the employees say we want a percent of the profits? No, they got their weekly checks, the company assumes all the risks and company has intellectual property rights.. Same with the tech industry and many more business sectors… So why should the writers get a percentage of the profits.

Were the writers out on the picket line when GM or Ford went on strike? No,the writers are in it for themselves. So why should I support the writers? AND if the writers do win, then this reduces the networks profits and all that we will get is MORE REALITY TV. Do you want that???

I say screw the writers, I’ll take reruns of B5, Farscape, Firefly, etc,.. Also I don’t want to hear about how some make 50K or less or that others are unemployed…. I personally don’t want anyone unemployed but they have a choice, many people don’t have a choice and their job is eliminated…

Bottom line....

Because they are the Artists that the RIAA and the MPAA are supposedly supporting. If an author can have a 70 year copyright (which I don't believe is right, considering how much of a breadth that covers and the conglomerites in control of the copyright), than I see no reason why a writer of a show should not get paid residuals like the actors do.

When they stop bullshiting us, I'll agree with your point of view.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Friday, December 14, 2007 8:13 AM

CHRISISALL

Screw the writers and they'll choose a more secure job, or write novels and comics instead of TV and Movies- then my friends, we will see the end of ANY good stuff, save for re-runs.

HEROES of the Sanitary Engineers, tonight at 9pm.
CHUCK's Tool Time, Tuesday at 8.
LOST Survivalist: No Sunscreen For U, Saturday at 10.

Pay 'em Chrisisall

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Friday, December 14, 2007 8:57 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Writers aren't the only ones expected to come up with their own product and walk away with a paycheck.

I get this email just to see what's going. The service (which I'm leaving nameless) emails out tough chemistry development projects. The individual who comes up with the answer gets cut a check (reward). The patents, profits and all other claims reside with the company that is paying for the result. Check this out:

Technology for Continuous Hydrogenation(#5618840)
Technology for continuous hydrogenation process is desired. The Seeker is looking for Solvers with both the technical know-how and laboratory facility to develop a continuous hydrogenation reaction process which is adaptable to a large commercial scale.
Deadline: January 11, 2008
Reward: Varies

Isopropyl Alcohol Resistant Film Material (#5501047)
A breathable film material impermeable to water in the presence of isopropyl alcohol is desired.
Deadline: February 8, 2008
Reward: $40,000

Seeking Isatin/Indole-related compounds(#5613809)
Non-commercial Isatin/Indole-related compounds are desired.
Deadline: February 15, 2008
Reward: Varies

Seeking Furazans and Oxazoles(#5613284)
Non-commercial Furazans and Oxazoles are desired.
Deadline: February 15, 2008
Reward: Varies

Process for Producing Esters in an Economic Fashion (#5521218)
The challenge is to produce a specific citric acid ester in a faster cycle under current specifications.
Deadline: February 16, 2008
Reward: $40,000

Seeking 1,2,4-triazoline-3-ones(#5624982)
Non-commercial 1,2,4-triazoline-3-ones are desired.
Deadline: February 18, 2008
Reward: Varies

Release sheet for product packaging(#5550446)
A new type of release sheet used between the product and packaging is needed. The amount of product that adheres to the sheet should be consistent and be minimized.
Deadline: February 25, 2008
Reward: Varies

***************************************************************
I'm sure there are a lot of Indian and Chinese chemists only too happy to help. Can you hear the giant sucking sound ?

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Friday, December 14, 2007 8:57 AM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Bottom line....

Because they are the Artists that the RIAA and the MPAA are supposedly supporting. If an author can have a 70 year copyright (which I don't believe is right, considering how much of a breadth that covers and the conglomerites in control of the copyright), than I see no reason why a writer of a show should not get paid residuals like the actors do.

When they stop bullshiting us, I'll agree with your point of view.

Get with the program you loon.

How anyone could think how someone who actually produces a work has less right to it than some suit in a position of power that want's it is beyond me.

I for one welcome our greedy Studio running overlords.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Friday, December 14, 2007 9:16 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
No, they got their weekly checks, the company assumes all the risks and company has intellectual property rights.. Same with the tech industry and many more business sectors… So why should the writers get a percentage of the profits.

So I'm assuming you feel the same way about the producers, the directors, the actors, and the networks - once they show the thing, they get their paycheck out of the first slice of the revenue pie, and are never eligible for any more. In other words, if a certain failed TV series were to shoot to number 1 on Amazon's DVD sales, you'd say screw the creators and the network -they already got their chance to get paid. Right?

What the writers are after is a setup more akin to what musicians have. If a song is played on the radio, the musician gets a check. Granted, just playing it on the radio doesn't get one a "sale" of a concrete item, like a CD or cassette, but it was still broadcast, so the band gets paid.

You say "Screw the writers". I say support 'em. What they are after is a tiny slice of the money that will be generated by online sales. How potentially big is this? Well, you can already go to Netflix and order and download your movie online, without ever physically holding a copy of the DVD. Under the current arrangement, the writer who created that story out of his own mind, on his own time, gets zero-point-dick out of that rental. Meanwhile, the network gets as much for the rental as they would have by putting a physical DVD into the store - more, even, since you can download any number of times from the same source, while with a single DVD, it can only be rented to one user at a time. So their investment goes to practically nil, while their potential profitability goes through the roof.

This also applies to things like iTunes. You can download your favorite shows, but the writers gets paid nothing for that. 20 years ago, writers went on strike to get a tiny (1/3 of one cent per unit sold) percentage of DVD sales, and were told that there would never be any profit generated by DVDs. So who's being disingenuous?

I fully support the writers, and look forward to them getting back to work, but only after a fair and equitable settlement is reached.

Regime change begins at home - throw the Fascist Bush regime out!

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Friday, December 14, 2007 9:33 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Just an afterthought ...

one of the thing people don't seem to realize is that every new tactic to reduce wages spreads beyond it's original application. And that the cycle of new ways to dodge wages and benefits has gotten shorter. 'Outsourcing' which began in low-end jobs has spread to bread-and-butter and higher-end jobs. Turning people into 'independent contractors' rather than employees has - as you see - spread to high-end research. Screwing people out of their rights to their own product will inevitably spread to other areas.

If the writers get beaten on this issue you'd better watch your back - because it'll be coming home to you, and soon.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Friday, December 14, 2007 10:04 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Thanks Rue.

The only reason why things are the way they are is because too many folks lack the vision of a better way, and the backbone to make it so. So they want others to bend over and grab their ankles w/o realizing they'll be next.

PS: Unions ARE part of "the market", just as much as conglomerates.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Friday, December 14, 2007 10:05 AM

KWICKO

Yup, Rue, when you're right, you're right. I've been told in my job that if I come up with the fabled "million dollar idea" while employed with this company, it belongs to the owner of the company, not to me, and I have no rights or claims on such an idea.

Guess how many of those ideas I've come up with here. Guess how many I'll come up with AFTER I leave here. :)

Regime change begins at home - throw the Fascist Bush regime out!

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Friday, December 14, 2007 10:14 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I recall a story. Best of my recolleciton, it goes like this: There was a scientist working for a kitty litter company. He had signed one of those intellectual property agreements that said athat anything he came up with belonged to the company. This guy's son was sick... I can't recall with what... and he developed a treatment on his own time with his own money.

Guess who got to keep the patent?

First of all, according to a patent attorney there is no such thing as intellectual property and anyone who tries to tell you otherwise is bamboozling you. There are copyrights, patents, and trade secrets. Anything else is bullshit. Those infamous EULAs (End User License Agreements on shrinkwrap software) are bullshit. The inability to re-load a piece of software on your repaired PC is bullshit. The inability to copy a piece of music for "fair use" is bullshit.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Friday, December 14, 2007 10:28 AM

CITIZEN

A friend of mine used to work for EA, he had to sign a contract that made any game idea he had legally property of EA, whether it was anything to do with his job or not (he was actually a games tester).

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Saturday, December 15, 2007 3:42 AM

HIXIE129

Again, if you work in other business sectors those employees do not get royalties. Big pharma is the perfect example. Why should writers (if they are employed full time with a network) think that they are entitled to royalties.. The network puts up all the money. How about if the TV show loses money then writers should give their salaries back to the network. That would be fair.

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Saturday, December 15, 2007 5:25 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

oops

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Saturday, December 15, 2007 5:25 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I would counter that I think the pharmas SHOULD give their employees part of the royalities, and, yeah... if the product's a flop everyone takes a cut in pay. AS LONG AS the employees have a decision-making role in the company.

How's THEM apples?

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Monday, December 17, 2007 10:15 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"Again, if you work in other business sectors those employees do not get royalties. Big pharma is the perfect example."

It didn't used to be that way. Bardeen and Brattain got the original transistor patent, NOT Bell Labs - courtesy of Bell Laboratories lawyers, the company for whom they worked. Bell Labs was actually contesting Shockley's claims, also a Bell Lab employee.

FWIW I don't think ANY company should receive a patent or copyright - companies don't invent and create, people do. And the corporate patent mania has gone totally awry. According to patent law one CLEARLY can't patent a naturally existing item - and yet the Supreme Court ruled that corporations can patent genes.

What a load of crap.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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